Diancie is the new mega I'm most likely to use, and for this exact reason. I'm a big fan of teams that can go either offensive or defensive depending on what's needed, and centering a team around a Diancie that could do either I think has some huge potential! I'm thinking of ignoring speed, but I haven't 100% decided on it yet.
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Other ORAS Mega Speculation Thread (NO talk about potential bans NOR Aegislash)
- Thread starter Aragorn the King
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What exactly can DD mega latios set up on? I'm trying it out and it just seems like literally every other pokemon threatens it out. Without investment the extra bulk doesn't help with setting up.
Well, the same stuff that Latios could switch in on. Keldeo, Rotom, Venusaur...
I wouldn't say it is effective with her since you don't have lefties recovery to help you through the damage you are likely to take in base form. Moreover, 100 offenses isn't all that good in TR when you have harder hitters. She is best played as a clean up or late game sweeper with her new stats.
You can't set up on rotom with will o wisp which is like, all of them.
Using the set AM posted, Mega Latios ca set-up on on the following.
Keldeo:
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 16 HP / 0 SpD Mega Latios: 114-135 (37.3 - 44.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Char-Y:
252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Fire Blast vs. 16 HP / 0 SpD Mega Latios in Sun: 134-158 (43.9 - 51.8%) -- 11.7% chance to 2HKO
Mega Camerupt:
252+ SpA Sheer Force Camerupt Fire Blast vs. 16 HP / 0 SpD Mega Latios: 118-140 (38.6 - 45.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Mega Venu:
252+ SpA Mega Venusaur Sludge Bomb vs. 16 HP / 0 SpD Mega Latios: 133-157 (43.6 - 51.4%) -- 6.6% chance to 2HKO
Mega Manectric:
252 SpA Mega Manectric Hidden Power Ice vs. 16 HP / 0 SpD Mega Latios: 116-138 (38 - 45.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Heatran (worst case scenario, HP Ice ScarfTran):
252+ SpA Heatran Hidden Power Ice vs. 16 HP / 0 SpD Mega Latios: 124-146 (40.6 - 47.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Landorus-I (weaker set-up, you can't come in on Knock Off and must have Ice Beam):
0 Atk Life Orb Landorus Knock Off vs. 16 HP / 0- Def Mega Latios: 164-195 (53.7 - 63.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Those are the common ones, there are others of course. theV8man Rotom really isn't an option because of WoW, but yeah everything else Latios checks you can set-up on. AM I initially did some calcs with a Naive and found a Hasty nature actually gives it more set-up opportunities, especially if you run the first four calcs with Hasty instead of Naive.
Yeah I just went with Naive to reduce damage on priority users such as Mega Scizor and general priority users as well but that's good to know I'll do that. I know Scarfed Raptor (Sucker Lunch on PS) and myself was working on a more bulky spread that is designed to be an offensive tank. His was designed to synergize with Sand Offense so you'll have to ask him what he's running specifically. Right now mine is something along the lines of 248 HP / 20 Speed / and I'm still testing out power / bulk for the rest of the EVs but speed thresholds with a Timid nature range from outpacing Mamoswine, M-Heracross, Diggersby, and so forth. As the speed threshold you're trying to hit goes lower you can opt for a more defensive nature. I've tried power right now and it's still pretty bulky and I'm currently testing bulk to see how much of a notable difference there is. So yeah bulky M-Latios is pretty cool since it's nice that there is no Life Orb recoil damage.
Mega Camerupt is solid. I don't know what your arguments are even supposed to prove.
Alright, so I did a few battles against Jukain with Mega Sharpedo, and there is conclusion: Mega Sharpedo ≠ Mega Gyarados. They are completely different - to an extent where I would actually say Mega Sharpedo is around the same level as Mega Gyarados. Yes, I said that statement, so read the rest of this post before you reply. Obviously, you guys believe this statement false because they share the same STABs, while Mega Gyarados can use DD and has better bulk. What does Mega Sharpedo have? That is the question you guys need to address. For one, Mega Sharpedo's Crunch completely decimates stall teams. Ferrothorn is 3HKOed by it, and Magnezone can safely trap it. Skarmory is 2HKOed by Crunch on the switch and can be trapped by Magnezone if you use like a Knock Off lure in the forms of CB Scizor or Landorus-T. It also 2HKOes Quagsire. You can also just Mega Evolve right away because you outpace everything. Sableye can't switch in because it is taking about 75% from Crunch, and Chesnaught is 2HKOed by Ice Fang. Crunch / Ice Fang coverage literally hits everything bar Keldeo, Azumarill, Mega Gyarados, and Bisharp which is what Earthquake is for the latter and in general coverage for killing Heatran, aforementioned Bisharp, Magnezone without any prior damage, list goes on... Next, Keldeo, a common switch in for Mega Sharpedo in offensive teams, is really easy to wear down, and Crunch does literally half to it. Literally half. You can't just compare these things because Mega Sharpedo has immediate power, and doesn't have to waste time using DD to beat offensive teams. It completely rips stall teams which is why LO Sharpedo in rain was so good along with that SD Garchomp (aka Shark Attack) which beat like every stall team while also posing a huge threat to offense. Now, we got a Mega Evolution that has one of the strongest Dark-type moves in the game which 2HKOes the whole tier? Mega Sharpedo also destroys Mega Slowbro trying to set up and can revenge kill and weakened bulky Mega Salamence, which is broken. It checks Bisharp, a bunch of other crap, and makes your opponent's offensive team get 6-0d once you where down its very few checks with lures, hazards, and U-turn. On top of that, 70 Base Defense lets it completely wreck, so things like Bullet Punch aren't doing 50% like they were on normal Pedo, and lets it 2HKO some things safely like tanking Gunk Shot from Greninja. Counters? Clefable and Azumarill. Hey look, a stray Poison Fang. Some weird Shed Shell Ferrothorn? I've seen someone use Hidden Power [Fire]. What does Mega Gyarados? It is pinned down to one set, has to set up, and can't do crap to stall, and even then, it ends up being revenge killed by things like Mega Sceptile or Scarfed Landorus-T. both are revenge killed by Thundurus-I anyways which is kind of rare in the ladder atm. Mega Sharpedo has all these factors and it is really easy to just plow holes in to stall or outright sweep offense, when its checks are weakened. And Magnezone and Gothitelle just make this thing more OP. I thought it was outclassed in the beginning, but after using it in a few battles, I realized it is no Mega Gyarados and is as powerful as any Mega when used properly (lol this thing is like b+/a- rank). The following replay shows me using it, but I didn't have Earthquake on it, and it shows how valuable it is to check Bisharp. It did massive damage tho, even in its base form.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/orasou-179698599
Also, Mega Sableye is gross. It doesn't get hit super effectively outside of Fairy- meaning it walls like everything. Garchomp trying to set up on you to kill? Will-O-Wisp. Shadow Ball has amazing coverage and it is easy to set up initially with Prankster. Fits on any archetype easily, and Magic Bounce is an overall amazing ability. Mega Sableye is one of the most threatening 'mons in OU atm.
tl;dr Sharpedo is ridiculously unprepared for and is a terrifying sweeper (shouldn't be compared to Mega Gyara) and Mega Sableye is gross and is another amazing 'mon
Alright, so I did a few battles against Jukain with Mega Sharpedo, and there is conclusion: Mega Sharpedo ≠ Mega Gyarados. They are completely different - to an extent where I would actually say Mega Sharpedo is around the same level as Mega Gyarados. Yes, I said that statement, so read the rest of this post before you reply. Obviously, you guys believe this statement false because they share the same STABs, while Mega Gyarados can use DD and has better bulk. What does Mega Sharpedo have? That is the question you guys need to address. For one, Mega Sharpedo's Crunch completely decimates stall teams. Ferrothorn is 3HKOed by it, and Magnezone can safely trap it. Skarmory is 2HKOed by Crunch on the switch and can be trapped by Magnezone if you use like a Knock Off lure in the forms of CB Scizor or Landorus-T. It also 2HKOes Quagsire. You can also just Mega Evolve right away because you outpace everything. Sableye can't switch in because it is taking about 75% from Crunch, and Chesnaught is 2HKOed by Ice Fang. Crunch / Ice Fang coverage literally hits everything bar Keldeo, Azumarill, Mega Gyarados, and Bisharp which is what Earthquake is for the latter and in general coverage for killing Heatran, aforementioned Bisharp, Magnezone without any prior damage, list goes on... Next, Keldeo, a common switch in for Mega Sharpedo in offensive teams, is really easy to wear down, and Crunch does literally half to it. Literally half. You can't just compare these things because Mega Sharpedo has immediate power, and doesn't have to waste time using DD to beat offensive teams. It completely rips stall teams which is why LO Sharpedo in rain was so good along with that SD Garchomp (aka Shark Attack) which beat like every stall team while also posing a huge threat to offense. Now, we got a Mega Evolution that has one of the strongest Dark-type moves in the game which 2HKOes the whole tier? Mega Sharpedo also destroys Mega Slowbro trying to set up and can revenge kill and weakened bulky Mega Salamence, which is broken. It checks Bisharp, a bunch of other crap, and makes your opponent's offensive team get 6-0d once you where down its very few checks with lures, hazards, and U-turn. On top of that, 70 Base Defense lets it completely wreck, so things like Bullet Punch aren't doing 50% like they were on normal Pedo, and lets it 2HKO some things safely like tanking Gunk Shot from Greninja. Counters? Clefable and Azumarill. Hey look, a stray Poison Fang. Some weird Shed Shell Ferrothorn? I've seen someone use Hidden Power [Fire]. What does Mega Gyarados? It is pinned down to one set, has to set up, and can't do crap to stall, and even then, it ends up being revenge killed by things like Mega Sceptile or Scarfed Landorus-T. both are revenge killed by Thundurus-I anyways which is kind of rare in the ladder atm. Mega Sharpedo has all these factors and it is really easy to just plow holes in to stall or outright sweep offense, when its checks are weakened. And Magnezone and Gothitelle just make this thing more OP. I thought it was outclassed in the beginning, but after using it in a few battles, I realized it is no Mega Gyarados and is as powerful as any Mega when used properly (lol this thing is like b+/a- rank). The following replay shows me using it, but I didn't have Earthquake on it, and it shows how valuable it is to check Bisharp. It did massive damage tho, even in its base form.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/orasou-179698599
252+ Atk Strong Jaw Sharpedo Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 129-153 (38.6 - 45.8%) -- 11.7% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Strong Jaw Sharpedo Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Sableye: 196-232 (64.4 - 76.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Strong Jaw Sharpedo Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Sableye: 139-165 (45.7 - 54.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Strong Jaw Sharpedo Ice Fang vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Chesnaught: 154-182 (40.5 - 47.8%)
252+ Atk Strong Jaw Sharpedo Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Slowbro: 216-254 (54.8 - 64.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Strong Jaw Sharpedo Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 183-216 (46.4 - 54.8%) -- 62.1% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Strong Jaw Sharpedo Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Zapdos: 183-216 (47.6 - 56.2%) -- 25.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Strong Jaw Sharpedo Crunch vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 301-355 (46.8 - 55.2%) -- garunteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
-1 252+ Atk Strong Jaw Sharpedo Ice Fang vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Salamence: 264-312 (67 - 79.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
ugh sucks it can't hit clefable but wutev, it will get worn down, +gothitelle op
252+ Atk Strong Jaw Sharpedo Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Sableye: 196-232 (64.4 - 76.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Strong Jaw Sharpedo Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Sableye: 139-165 (45.7 - 54.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Strong Jaw Sharpedo Ice Fang vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Chesnaught: 154-182 (40.5 - 47.8%)
252+ Atk Strong Jaw Sharpedo Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Slowbro: 216-254 (54.8 - 64.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Strong Jaw Sharpedo Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 183-216 (46.4 - 54.8%) -- 62.1% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Strong Jaw Sharpedo Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Zapdos: 183-216 (47.6 - 56.2%) -- 25.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Strong Jaw Sharpedo Crunch vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 301-355 (46.8 - 55.2%) -- garunteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
-1 252+ Atk Strong Jaw Sharpedo Ice Fang vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Salamence: 264-312 (67 - 79.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
ugh sucks it can't hit clefable but wutev, it will get worn down, +gothitelle op
tl;dr Sharpedo is ridiculously unprepared for and is a terrifying sweeper (shouldn't be compared to Mega Gyara) and Mega Sableye is gross and is another amazing 'mon
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While that is all fine and dandy for Sharpedo, how exactly is it that Gyarados "can't do crap against stall"? Between Mold Breaker and Taunt, it might not immediately overpower like Sharpedo, but it can tear through numerous standard stall mons. Is Sharpedo better vs stall? Potentially, based on your testimony, but Gyarados is far from a sitting duck against stall. In reality it wants Sub for offensive teams and it wants Taunt for defensive/stall teams. You could potentially run both and mono-STAB it, as with Mold Breaker neither of his STABs have immunities, and both have good side effects with either 20% chance to flinch or drop defense. In reality though you run or the other and you'd use your team mates to handle the opposing style's checks.
I feel like with the rise of bulky, annoying Pokemon that spam Wisp like stallbreaker Mew and Mega Sableye, Mega Houndoom will increase in viability. It can switch into both of them with impunity and threaten them both. Sableye's CM doesn't matter cause of Sunny Day or NP. Mega Houndoom may not have the speed to revenge kill, but its no slouch and can take out speedy and powerful threats like Megagross (before boosting), Megallade, and Latios to name a few. You can also run a surprise Sucker Punch in there to catch a speed demon with low health here and there. AND it does great vs. stall in general, getting access to taunt and being able to take on most things. It's not very bulky, but its able to live LO Thundy Thunderbolts and so on if it must and KO back.
That being said, Mega Houndoom's biggest problem is being walled/checked by Azumarill/other offensive water types. It also hates Aqua Jets and Mach Punch, but resists pretty much all other priority, which is nice. The best it can do vs. these guys is a Solar Flare - boosted Solarbeam, which, while KO-ing stuff like Rotom still fails to take out AV Azumarill. Sunny Day/Solarbeam isn't its best set anyway, so you're better off just running a bulky grass teammate like Ferrothorn/Celebi.
That being said, Mega Houndoom's biggest problem is being walled/checked by Azumarill/other offensive water types. It also hates Aqua Jets and Mach Punch, but resists pretty much all other priority, which is nice. The best it can do vs. these guys is a Solar Flare - boosted Solarbeam, which, while KO-ing stuff like Rotom still fails to take out AV Azumarill. Sunny Day/Solarbeam isn't its best set anyway, so you're better off just running a bulky grass teammate like Ferrothorn/Celebi.
Nobody ever said mega rupt wasn't solid (but it sure is solid rock!!!.. ugh bad pun is bad pun), it is very good, but it has a lot of issues like its weaknesses and low speed (to some extent) that do hinder it making it a less viable mega overall. Not "unviable" just less viable.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/orasou-179790314
+6 0 SpA Mega Latias Stored Power (260 BP) vs. +6 252 HP / 4 SpD Clefable: 408-480 (103.5 - 121.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
So cm mega latias beats cm clefable 1v1....
That crit at the end didn't even make the slightest difference....
+6 0 SpA Mega Latias Stored Power (260 BP) vs. +6 252 HP / 4 SpD Clefable: 408-480 (103.5 - 121.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
So cm mega latias beats cm clefable 1v1....
That crit at the end didn't even make the slightest difference....
No reliable recovery hurts a lot, but with some Wish support, MegaGross could easily serve a role as a defensive tank with his godlike bulk and monstrous defensive typing.
Megagross's monstruous defensive typing leaves it weak to fire, ground, dark. Very common offensive moves. Good defense, but its typing isn't the best.
Once people get bored of the other new megas and realise latias sweeps teams for fun she will be everywhere.
It has 9 resistances and an immunity. I think that qualifies as "monstrous typing".
It has 9 resistances and an immunity. I think that qualifies as "monstrous typing".
Personally, I'd call it "good typing." Many resistances + one immunity, but nearly every team has a strong earthquake, and Dark, Ghost, and Fire, which are considered some of the best and most useful offensive types. If I wanted a utility Psychic-Steel, I'd rather go for Jirachi who has similar bulk (worse physical but slightly better special), better utility moves, and I get to use another mega on the team.
What are some good dance partners for M-Swampert? Swampert is really bringing back the rain offence as not a single pokemon has the same capability as swampert. I looked into seismitoad as a back up to Swampert and found the most disappointing thing that it doesnt have any physical water moves --__-- The best success I've had so far has been Ludicolo. What partners have people been running on their rain teams along with M-Swampert
So I have been looking for a solid Greninja check, I found Empoleon, but it was Magnezone weak and since HO has NinjaZone all over the place I kept losing especially because I already have Scizor. Mega Gyarados was a choice, but Thundurus weak and I already have a mega.
After looking through a lot of pokemons, I came up with:
Lanturn @ Leftovers
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 40 HP / 252 Def / 216 SpD
Calm Nature
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Heal Bell
- Scald / Volt Switch
A bit similar to RestTalk Heal Bell Mega Ampharous of XY UU, but just as good. It completely checks Greninja, Hydro Pump and HP Fire doing very pathetic damage while Gunk Shot does only ~20% and Dark Pulse about 25%. With reliable healing, heal bell support, and either slow volt switch or scald's chance of burn, this pokemon will definitely NOT be a hinder to balanced/bulky offensive or even stall any time soon. It's also able to counter both Magnezone and Thundurus, while still being able to spread burns and punish pokemons like Slowbro with either a burn or a stronk volt switch. Ferrothorn fears burn.
Here's a replay I just did showing off this guy's potential.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/orasou-179835556
After looking through a lot of pokemons, I came up with:
Lanturn @ Leftovers
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 40 HP / 252 Def / 216 SpD
Calm Nature
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Heal Bell
- Scald / Volt Switch
A bit similar to RestTalk Heal Bell Mega Ampharous of XY UU, but just as good. It completely checks Greninja, Hydro Pump and HP Fire doing very pathetic damage while Gunk Shot does only ~20% and Dark Pulse about 25%. With reliable healing, heal bell support, and either slow volt switch or scald's chance of burn, this pokemon will definitely NOT be a hinder to balanced/bulky offensive or even stall any time soon. It's also able to counter both Magnezone and Thundurus, while still being able to spread burns and punish pokemons like Slowbro with either a burn or a stronk volt switch. Ferrothorn fears burn.
Here's a replay I just did showing off this guy's potential.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/orasou-179835556
Kaputops preferable with aqua jet to stop talonflame should be very helpful.
I dont think btw that m-swampert is terryfying, it is weaker than lo Kabutops and needs one turn to activate swift swim, so that you can be damaged in the turn you mevolve and thus make the more bulk useless. despite having ice punch it alos cant stop salamence but that is probably more about salamence being broken since well kabutops also cant stop salamence..
It checks Mega Pidgeot.
0 SpA Lanturn Volt Switch vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Pidgeot: 162-192 (52.5 - 62.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Pidgeot Hidden Power Grass vs. 40 HP / 216+ SpD Lanturn: 100-118 (24.9 - 29.4%) -- 100% chance to 4HKO
Boom, relevance to this thread. But seriously, stop mini-modding and lay off the guy. It's not that off-topic.
252+ Atk Refrigerate Mega Glalie Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mew: 307-363 (75.9 - 89.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Refrigerate Mega Glalie Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Sableye: 190-225 (62.5 - 74%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
My Facade Glalie has been doing a nice job taking out those pesky status spreaders. Facade out-damages burned Explosion and I get to stay alive yay!!!
252+ Atk Refrigerate Mega Glalie Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Sableye: 190-225 (62.5 - 74%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
My Facade Glalie has been doing a nice job taking out those pesky status spreaders. Facade out-damages burned Explosion and I get to stay alive yay!!!
Nice! I'm just curious, is facade kind of gimmicky? Or can you ensure you get burned/poisoned in most games? I've been meaning to try out facade mega altaria but I'm skeptical because you're stuck with a 70BP move if you can't get status'd.
Yea that's kinda what I was skeptical about. But it could be a decent surprise for the opponent and unlike some other wall breakers such as cham and cross it will prevent glalie from being completely shut down by a burn.
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