Other ORAS OU Viability Ranking Thread - Check post #2359

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DoABarrelRoll said:
Cloyster can smash on Mega Mence and DD / defensive Mega Altaria fairly easily, and can break Mence's subs, but it needs SR off the field to beat Mence reliably, considering Fire Blast deals about 75%. As for Latios, Draco Meteor OHKOes even at -2. Maybe it deserves to rise to C-.
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Cloyster could check it if its defensive and the mence that its facing is just ddance. If it has draco, check it with something else.

Cloyster is a good sweeper, its just that i think it's one of those pokemon that gets a bad rep simply because it is used so poorly by inexperienced players. Often times I see them leading with it with focus sash, or smashing when its not the acceptable time to do so when your check is still around. Lets take a standard offensive team that consists of Keldeo, Weavile, Lando-t, DDance Mega altaria, magnezone, and Latios taken from the link here: http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/altarias-metagame-smashers.3522162/. All credit goes to TerrorDave not me.

A Bad player brings it out turn one and smashes while magnezone volt switches and Weavile ice shards to take you out.

A good player would switch it in after Keldeo is gone and gets a chance against Lando-t and Ddance Mega altaria one on one. They can't do enough damage to you due to your 180 base defense, you smash with enough health to last the whole game and you win.

Not only that, Cloyster has other options other than smashing. It can be physically defensive to check a lot of key mons like dd mence, dd nite, gliscor, some fire types like talonflame and mega charizard x to an extent. It could set up hazards and rapid spin if it wanted to (it has better options though). It can even run a defensive overcoat set to screw over Breloom leads (thats niche though).


While cloyster may not be the first thing to think about basing a team around, due to its flaws, Its a lot better than people percieve it to be. I have yet to see a good player actually use cloyster seriously.
 
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Smog Frog said:
so we can discuss b+/b ranks now? here's something i've been waiting to do for a long time:

->B+

mega camerupt is a monster. it's got power to match that volcano on its back. but while its clear to anybody with some semblance of mental capacity that mega camerupt is strong as fuck, it also has some other qualities that push it to b+. for one, its defensive typing is glamorous. electric immunity and bug resist make it one of the hardest stops to voltturn, and its bulk allows it to function as a check to things like talonflame, sceptile, bisharp, and some things that i am missing. and because 95% of the time you will be using earth power/fire blast, you have 2 extra moveslots, which camerupt can use. it has access to ancient power, wisp, rocks(but i wouldnt really recommend camel as a rocks setter, because you could be nuking the shit out of stuff), yawn(i've seen it seriously used), and substitute. also, some of the stuff in b such as crawdaunt, scizor, alomomola, amoonguss, etc. arent really as good as camerupt is. so, camel->b+.
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No. First off, its defensive typing is not that great, lol. x4 weak to Water is really, really not good seeing as things like Azumarill, Greninja, Keldeo, etc. are all really threatening and quite common; and the flaws are only compounded by the fact that it's weak to Ground, and many things that don't even have STAB on it run Earthquake just because it's an awesome move, and any physical Ground-type will have it.

Secondly, things like Crawdaunt, Alomomola, and Amoonguss don't even really give any merit as things to check in OU since they aren't even in OU. Also, you're out of your mind if you think it checks Crawdaunt and Alomomola. (Misread your post, nevermind.)

Thirdly, Volt-Turn, though occasional, is not that common a strategy in OU right now. Camerupt-Mega is fine where it is, and it certainly does not belong in B+.
 
Gallade Lv. ✘ said:
No. First off, its defensive typing is not that great, lol. x4 weak to Water is really, really not good seeing as things like Azumarill, Greninja, Keldeo, etc. are all really threatening and quite common; and the flaws are only compounded by the fact that it's weak to Ground, and many things that don't even have STAB on it run Earthquake just because it's an awesome move, and any physical Ground-type will have it.

Secondly, things like Crawdaunt, Alomomola, and Amoonguss don't even really give any merit as things to check in OU since they aren't even in OU. Also, you're out of your mind if you think it checks Crawdaunt and Alomomola. (Misread your post, nevermind.)

Thirdly, Volt-Turn, though occasional, is not that common a strategy in OU right now. Camerupt-Mega is fine where it is, and it certainly does not belong in B+.
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i've gotta address a common misconception that alot of players seem to have:

weaknesses to water and ground. know what shares these? heatran. heatran also has a fighting weakness. you dont see people going around saying heatran's defensive typing is bad, do you?
 
MCamerupt is perfectly fine where it is, I really don't know why it's being brought up tbh. I know some people want it to move down and it shouldn't do that either. It certainly shines with the right support and has excellent synergy with many Grass and Water types (particularly Celebi and Rotom-W), but it still really needs that support and definitely can't just be slapped on any team. It's also very prediction-reliant due to its very low speed, the fact that it can't finish off slower opponents counts against it too.

If we've decided to jump the gun and discuss B+ and B ranks now, MBeedrill, Chesnaught and probably Skarmory need to move up (also considering Chansey and Hippowdon too) and Starmie should move down, will share reasoning for each of these later.
 
Smog Frog said:
so we can discuss b+/b ranks now? here's something i've been waiting to do for a long time:

->B+

mega camerupt is a monster. it's got power to match that volcano on its back. but while its clear to anybody with some semblance of mental capacity that mega camerupt is strong as fuck, it also has some other qualities that push it to b+. for one, its defensive typing is glamorous. electric immunity and bug resist make it one of the hardest stops to voltturn, and its bulk allows it to function as a check to things like talonflame, sceptile, bisharp, and some things that i am missing. and because 95% of the time you will be using earth power/fire blast, you have 2 extra moveslots, which camerupt can use. it has access to ancient power, wisp, rocks(but i wouldnt really recommend camel as a rocks setter, because you could be nuking the shit out of stuff), yawn(i've seen it seriously used), and substitute. also, some of the stuff in b such as crawdaunt, scizor, alomomola, amoonguss, etc. arent really as good as camerupt is. so, camel->b+.
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Im lagging or something but my last post just basically said heatran outclasses camerupt and if you could give a reason to use camerupt over heatran?
 
MegaScizor said:
Im lagging or something but my last post just basically said heatran outclasses camerupt and if you could give a reason to use camerupt over heatran?
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lol that's such a misguided comparison to make, Heatran does not outclass MCamerupt for the same reason Azumarill does not outclass Mega-Sharpedo, they fill completely different roles...
 
Smog Frog said:
i've gotta address a common misconception that alot of players seem to have:

weaknesses to water and ground. know what shares these? heatran. heatran also has a fighting weakness. you dont see people going around saying heatran's defensive typing is bad, do you?
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To be blunt, there's no comparison to be made between the two in my eyes. Camerupt-Mega is just not as viable as Heatran. It's an offensive Pokemon in a defensive Pokemon's body -- high SpA but very low Speed -- and it can't hold an item like Assault Vest to open more options. Heatran's sets are numerous, from the standard Special Defense, to the Scarf, to the Rocks + Roar. Mega Camerupt can really only do one thing -- shoot off Fire Blasts and Earth Powers until it's inevitably OHKOed by the faster (what isn't?) Water-type on the opposing team. And even if you were going to compare the two, Heatran would always be the better option since it does not waste a Mega slot.

Albacore said:
MCamerupt is perfectly fine where it is, I really don't know why it's being brought up tbh. I know some people want it to move down and it shouldn't do that either. It certainly shines with the right support and has excellent synergy with many Grass and Water types (particularly Celebi and Rotom-W), but it still really needs that support and definitely can't just be slapped on any team. It's also very prediction-reliant due to its very low speed, the fact that it can't finish off slower opponents counts against it too.

If we've decided to jump the gun and discuss B+ and B ranks now, MBeedrill, Chesnaught and probably Skarmory need to move up (also considering Chansey and Hippowdon too) and Starmie should move down, will share reasoning for each of these later.
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I agree with Beedrill-Mega and Chesnaught moving up, but I honestly don't ever see them higher than B+. Even though these two Pokemon are capable, I don't feel like I would ever really consider the two when building a team, since Chesnaught are pretty trivially countered by any Special Attacker and Beedrill-Mega can't really do anything to incredibly common Pokemon like Landorus-Therian, Skarmory, etc. It's offensive typing is alright at best, and it simply dies to any form of priority that isn't Mach Punch, and a huge chunk of OU Pokemon that can carry priority do so, meaning Beedrill will have to often be switched out without even using U-Turn.
 
lol maybe I am off mark (I have never used or even really thought about M camerupt), but I just think that specs/scarf tran could fill a similiar role, the tradeoff of not using a mega would balance out being locked into a move. And if you wanted a more defensive set I think heatran is better suited for that as well. Like I said I dont really know but I am just throwing it out there.

Edit: to expand a bit more if m camerupts role is just to nuke things with fire blast and earth power then I think specs tran is better suited at that because it will hit harder and heatran is faster so it could potentially get a second hit off whereas m camerupt would not have been able too. With heatrans ability to run scarf specs or spdef or balloon(so many viable sets) I just dont see a reason to use M camerupt when you could save your mega spot and have the surprise factor of having a specs heatran. Let me know if I am completely wrong cuz I am curious how camerupt is working in the current meta.
 
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Gallade Lv. ✘ said:
To be blunt, there's no comparison to be made between the two in my eyes. Camerupt-Mega is just not as viable as Heatran. It's an offensive Pokemon in a defensive Pokemon's body -- high SpA but very low Speed -- and it can't hold an item like Assault Vest to open more options. Heatran's sets are numerous, from the standard Special Defense, to the Scarf, to the Rocks + Roar. Mega Camerupt can really only do one thing -- shoot off Fire Blasts and Earth Powers until it's inevitably OHKOed by the faster (what isn't?) Water-type on the opposing team. And even if you were going to compare the two, Heatran would always be the better option since it does not waste a Mega slot.
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i'm not comparing their roles lol, i'm just saying that mega camerupts typing isnt as bad as people think it is by saying a pokemon with a renowned defensive typing has more weaknesses
 
Gallade Lv. ✘ said:
No. First off, its defensive typing is not that great, lol. x4 weak to Water is really, really not good seeing as things like Azumarill, Greninja, Keldeo, etc. are all really threatening and quite common
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While the Water Weakness is a serious problem, I should note that Azumarill is the only one that jumps to mind as a threat for THAT reason, at least unsupported
- Most Greninja I've been seeing are forgoing Water moves because Protean means coverage is the most important thing on Greninja, and his other moves tend to be better choices than Hydro Pump
- Keldeo, while a hard hitter is quite easy to play around in that case. Two of the sets that made it famous were Choice sets, which means if he has to go for a Water move, it's relatively easy to pick a switch in, since the Latis can swtich into said moves and scare it out.

That said, Camerupt's big problem is that he can only serve as a wallbreaker. Most others able to do that like Gallade, Char-Y, Pinsir, etc. are fast enough for other offensive threats, or have options like Boosting moves to not only destroy those walls, but exploit the turns they get from them. Camerupt's only real trick is to nuke the opponent with its SF boosted STAB moves, but if there's no walls it needs to break, its other assets are comparatively smaller, as great as stopping Electrics is.

Camerupt in a way has to play like a Choice Mon: it can nuke the opposition, but its easy to play around, though in his case because of speed rather than move locking. Even Keldeo, who made it to A/S ranks, has options besides Choice sets, whether or not they're more viable.
 
I've used Mega Camerupt on a Trick Room team and it works really well. Pairs up really well with Crawdaunt and they put in a lot of work together. With base 145 SpAtk and Sheer Force boosted STAB moves you get calcs like these:

252+ SpA Sheer Force Mega Camerupt Earth Power vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Greninja: 301-355 (105.2 - 124.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Sheer Force Camerupt Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Thundurus: 334-394 (111.7 - 131.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Sheer Force Camerupt Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Salamence: 166-196 (50.1 - 59.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Sheer Force Camerupt Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Rotom-W: 131-155 (43 - 50.9%) -- 55.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Sheer Force Camerupt Fire Blast vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Latios: 128-151 (42.3 - 50%) -- 90.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

List goes on. Basically Mega Camerupt has very little safe switchins thanks to its excellent offensive coverage, and many teams are unprepared for Trick Room on top of that. Although you could say that Mega Camerupt really needs this support to be effective, it is insanely effective if it gets it. It's like Kabutops and Rain, without Rain Kabutops wouldn't be used in OU at all but with this support it becomes really good. Mega Camerupt is also considerably bulky and only has two weaknesses, so it's something you definitely need to watch out for.
 
Is Specs Heatran even viable lol?

Yeah the comparisons to Heatran aren't justified since they aren't exactly alike outside KILL EVERYTHING WITH FIRE. I still don't think Mega Camerupt should move up though due to its horrible Speed (it needs to invest to beat uninvested Slowbro) and being super prediction reliant as others have stated. But screwing over most Electrics and almost everything on VoltTurn teams is pretty sweet.

Liarliarpantsonfire, Trick Room support is much more demanding than Rain since it doesn't last as long and eats an extra turn to setup because the best setters can't abuse it themselves. Mega Camerupt is actually viable outside of Trick Room but requiring it active for best results kinda kills its chance of going up a rank.
 
I'm going to disagree with the drop on Manaphy. Aragorn The King already explained the majority of what makes it effective but one thing that wasn't mentioned was during the days in XY where Thundurus was a very dominant threat, Wacan Berry was used as an item to help its matchup against Thundurus. As Thundurus became more easily prepared for the Wacan Berry sets were dropped in favor of Leftovers. Now that Thundurus has gained more prevalence as well as M-Sceptile all Manaphy needs to do to slow them and others down is run the berry that these threats would correlate to and hit them with the appropriate coverage. It can still be a threatening set up sweeper and breaking M-Sableye and M-Slowbro amongst other defensive threats with ease is a plus.

M-Camerupt in B+ is too high. Also the Heatran comparisons are baffling me cause last time I checked Heatran had much more versatility in its movepool, provides much more team synergy, not a mega, can hold leftovers which is sort of a big deal believe it or not, and isn't slow as a snail unlike M-Camerupt. It's got plenty of wallbreaking potential and is a sweet Trick Room wallbreaker but it's being overhyped as a B+ potential due to its very apparent flaws and B is where it should stay until there's some real metagame change that is in favor of M-Camerupt.

Cloyster isn't as bad as some of you are making it out to be, which is kind of a sign that you've never actually used it to form a solid opinion on it. There's a whole lot of stuff that does not want to be trying to take hits from Cloyster after it has set up, and if offense doesn't have a solid priority user to slow it down at that point, they run the risk of getting swept easily. Subsmash, King's Rock, White Herb, Water coverage sets, and so forth are all solid sets with the right team support and definitely has the potential to punch holes through teams. I'm inclined to see it at C- cause it's definitely better than some D rank like Heracross and Cofagrigus who are really niche and only handle very specific threats and provide specific assets while Cloyster actually has enough options for some versatility. Then again I rather wait cause you know, M-Salamence and all is distorting the tier.
 
Smog Frog said:
because cloyster is garbage
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I've seen it many times in tournaments since people aren't prepared for it nowadays.
It does win 1v1 against Mega salamence.
-1 252 Atk Cloyster Icicle Spear (5 hits) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Salamence: 360-440 (108.7 - 132.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Aerilate Salamence Return vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Cloyster: 141-166 (58.5 - 68.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

It's not a bad people make it out to be. Decent 95 attack, skill link and shell smash is good, you can even throw in a life orb if you're brave.

King's rock has basically 41% is great for brute forcing you way through outsped counters or simply try to stay healthy enough to ensure a sweep.

Gimmick: If berries comeback, you can even natural gift + watmel for a 1 time 80 power physical fire attack.

The only problem is that jolly after a shell smash is 1 point short of outspeeding +1 110 base speed (mainly latios).

C- seems fine for it. It has decent niche as a setup sweeper.
 
Man I sorta wish I could go to C ranks to possibly discuss bringing Mega Sol up but alas. :(


I was considering if we could possibly move Sharpedo-Mega up to B or so cause I keep thinking even B- is a bit low for him given his pure power of Crunch and utility moves (ice beam for the ground/flyings, hydro for skarm and junk, etc.) cause at the very least he seems viable enough to be compared to a good amount of the current B rankers to me.
 
Salemance said:
Man I sorta wish I could go to C ranks to possibly discuss bringing Mega Sol up but alas. :(


I was considering if we could possibly move Sharpedo-Mega up to B or so cause I keep thinking even B- is a bit low for him given his pure power of Crunch and utility moves (ice beam for the ground/flyings, hydro for skarm and junk, etc.) cause at the very least he seems viable enough to be compared to a good amount of the current B rankers to me.
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We can't discuss anything from B- right now.
Though alexwolf's away for a while so might as well go nuts; shitpost and one-line to your heart's content
 
I really don't think you can drop Manaphy at this point because it's a very solid Greninja check. The Bulky Tail Glow set in the damage calc in particular is a very good Gren check, and those are hard to come by. This is the most damage Gren can do:

40 Atk Life Orb Protean Greninja Gunk Shot vs. 80 HP / 0 Def Manaphy: 168-199 (46.5 - 55.1%) -- 9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Which is pretty good all things considered. Mana 2HKOs non-Water Gren in return. Every other potential Gren attack does less, with Dark Pulse and Extrasensory clocking in at the next highest amount. Manaphy doesn't take much from Grass Knot because it's in the lowest weight damage bracket (20 BP). Manaphy isn't really hard to fit into teams mostly because of it's Water typing and it's self-supporting nature. It really doesn't require much overly specific support.
 
Hmm...just 'cause I'm bored, I want to make this nomination post really gay. ^__^

I support Dat Ass (Beedrill) for B+ just because that big insect booty of his brings so much momentum to the table. Adabptability U-Turn breaks the internet, and only a few mons in the meta can handle such a badonk. From my experience, Beedrill forces switches like none other, and is great for just wearing things down. Icing on the cake is that he pairs well with the premiere volt-switcher in the tier (Rotom-W) who covers a good chunk of his major weaknesses. My nitpick with Beedrill is that he takes big damage from even resisted hits that aren't grass or fighting moves, and is flat-out mauled by Lando-T, and priority not named mach punch. On top of that, the weakness to all hazards makes him even more frail.

I feel like B+ is a good spot for Beedrill because you get a fairy murderer, late-game cleaner, and momentum builder all in one. Trouble is, Beedrill wishes he had Gunk Shot, but is stuck with that piss weak Poison Jab. Quite often I'm using him against a mon between 60% and 70% Health and I'm like

"I don't want Beedrill to switch, but Poison Jab won't kill."

So I'm forced to U-Turn outta there like Kim Kardashian at a charity event just to keep Beedrill alive. After that, Hazards could be put back up again and other unforeseen shit. Yeah, the possibilities are endless. And the thing about Beedrill is that he can't take a hit, and priority is usually his worst nightmare during endgame (especially after SR). At least manectric has some emergency "bulk" due to intimidate. Beedrill has none.

Besides the awkward "damage issue" (Which is only because Poison Jab has low BP and most mons have a little bulk.) the priority trouble, SR/Hazard Weakness, and the fact that he has to run protect, Beedrill isn't that bad and is very deserving of a boost to B+.

TD:LR The Ass is Phat.
Put in B+
 
Karxrida said:
Is Specs Heatran even viable lol?

Yeah the comparisons to Heatran aren't justified since they aren't exactly alike outside KILL EVERYTHING WITH FIRE. I still don't think Mega Camerupt should move up though due to its horrible Speed (it needs to invest to beat uninvested Slowbro) and being super prediction reliant as others have stated. But screwing over most Electrics and almost everything on VoltTurn teams is pretty sweet.

Liarliarpantsonfire, Trick Room support is much more demanding than Rain since it doesn't last as long and eats an extra turn to setup because the best setters can't abuse it themselves. Mega Camerupt is actually viable outside of Trick Room but requiring it active for best results kinda kills its chance of going up a rank.
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Yeah spextran is perfectly viable; I love using it to punish the opponent for having ferrothorn cuz it hits even its resists stupidly hard.

I think the main problem with mega rupt is its speed. Sure, you can 2hko a mew or whatever, but that doesn't mean jack shit when you can't finish the job. Even if mew takes 65% from fire blast, it can technically just soft-boiled stall out all your fire blasts. This is a major downside to mega camerupt; it is reduced to extreme hit and run playstyles and any holes it actually does open up in stall are usually just healed off, which is a major downside :[

Honestly i could knock chansey down to fucking 45% and have rocks up and mega camerupt STILL would not be able to finish the job whereas practically any other special wallbreaker could, and that's just pathetic.
 
Empoleon should move from B- to A-. The following set is particularly good at phasing, clearing the field of hazards, and laying rocks.


Empoleon @ Leftovers
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 248 HP / 200 Def / 60 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Defog
- Stealth Rock
- Roar

Moreover, Empoleon is a reliable check to Greninja, who is ubiquitous and menacing (and can no longer be checked by Azumarill). (I would offer calcs, but the damage calculator is down at the moment.)

Scald is good for STAB and gets a boost from Torrent (which your opponent will fail to remember). Also, the burn chance is nice, as if you're in a battle where you can control momentum, you're bound to get a burn eventually. Defog is to clear hazards, which Empoleon does well as it is able to come in on a number of common Pokemon. Stealth Rock is for residual damage, and Roar is for phasing. (Often, Empoleon will SR on a setup sweeper, tank a hit, and proceed to Roar.) The EVs allow Empoleon to always survive Earthquake from Max Attack Landorus-T, and tank plenty of other hits. I used Paul Gilbert's team (which runs this set) to achieve a peak XY OU rating of 2056. Empoleon is super viable, and this set should be considered, as it performs a myriad of roles rather seamlessly.

Tagging PaulGilbert, who came up with the set.

EDIT:
This set always lives +1 Salamence-M Earthquake (you can even replace an auxiliary move with Ice Beam).

EDIT 2:
The reason I do not put it higher is because it isn't quite as viable (IMO) as A-ranks like Ferrothorn and Gliscor.
 
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Reverb said:
Empoleon should move from B- to A-. The following set is particularly good at phasing, clearing the field of hazards, and laying rocks.


Empoleon @ Leftovers
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 248 HP / 200 Def / 60 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Defog
- Stealth Rock
- Roar

Moreover, Empoleon is a reliable check to Greninja, who is ubiquitous and menacing (and can no longer be checked by Azumarill). (I would offer calcs, but the damage calculator is down at the moment.)

Scald is good for STAB and gets a boost from Torrent (which your opponent will fail to remember). Also, the burn chance is nice, as if you're in a battle where you can control momentum, you're bound to get a burn eventually. Defog is to clear hazards, which Empoleon does well as it is able to come in on a number of common Pokemon. Stealth Rock is for residual damage, and Roar is for phasing. (Often, Empoleon will SR on a setup sweeper, tank a hit, and proceed to Roar.) The EVs allow Empoleon to always survive Earthquake from Max Attack Landorus-T, and tank plenty of other hits. I used Paul Gilbert's team (which runs this set) to achieve a peak XY OU rating of 2056. Empoleon is super viable, and this set should be considered, as it performs a myriad of roles rather seamlessly.

Tagging PaulGilbert, who came up with the set.
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Here ya go.

212 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Dark Pulse/Grass Knot (80 BP) vs. 248 HP / 60 SpD Empoleon: 133-156 (35.8 - 42%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
212 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Hidden Power Fire vs. 248 HP / 60 SpD Empoleon: 99-117 (26.6 - 31.5%) -- 85.4% chance to 4HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
212 SpA Life Orb Greninja Hydro Pump vs. 248 HP / 60 SpD Empoleon: 90-105 (24.2 - 28.3%) -- 0% chance to 4HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

Low Kick almost always 2HKOs with Rocks up, but if you're checking it you still get off your Roar.

40 Atk Life Orb Protean Greninja Low Kick (80 BP) vs. 248 HP / 220+ Def Empoleon: 182-218 (49 - 58.7%) -- 98% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
 
Reverb said:
Empoleon should move from B- to A-. The following set is particularly good at phasing, clearing the field of hazards, and laying rocks.


Empoleon @ Leftovers
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 248 HP / 200 Def / 60 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Defog
- Stealth Rock
- Roar

Moreover, Empoleon is a reliable check to Greninja, who is ubiquitous and menacing (and can no longer be checked by Azumarill). (I would offer calcs, but the damage calculator is down at the moment.)

Scald is good for STAB and gets a boost from Torrent (which your opponent will fail to remember). Also, the burn chance is nice, as if you're in a battle where you can control momentum, you're bound to get a burn eventually. Defog is to clear hazards, which Empoleon does well as it is able to come in on a number of common Pokemon. Stealth Rock is for residual damage, and Roar is for phasing. (Often, Empoleon will SR on a setup sweeper, tank a hit, and proceed to Roar.) The EVs allow Empoleon to always survive Earthquake from Max Attack Landorus-T, and tank plenty of other hits. I used Paul Gilbert's team (which runs this set) to achieve a peak XY OU rating of 2056. Empoleon is super viable, and this set should be considered, as it performs a myriad of roles rather seamlessly.

Tagging PaulGilbert, who came up with the set.
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Empoleon is a actually a very viable pokemon, good defogger, and Solid non low kick Greninja check. My biggest gripe is lack of recovery. I think because of that mainly it would be more of a B+ pokemon if Greninja lives past this suspect test.
 
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