Harvest Season
Hey guys, this is jpw234 bringing you a stall team that I've been working on in ORAS OU. It is based off of the core of physically defensive Mega-Altaria + Gourgeist + bulky water - you can find my writeup of this combination here if you'd like to read about it in a bit more detail. The team manages to take advantage of some under-appreciated threats to roadblock a pretty large part of the current metagame.
This team was built during the Mega-Mence era and has a pretty strong matchup against the more common threats being seen at that time. I did manage to peak at #22 with the team and it performs pretty consistently; however, there are some definite holes that need filling and it could certainly stand to improve. So, I'm opening it up to the RMT subforum to give me some good ideas that can push the team over that last hump and hopefully let me peak the ladder.
The team gets its name from the fact that Mega-Altaria (the turkey) and Gourgeist (the pumpkin) stand in for my two favorite autumn holidays, and my favorite time of the year in general.
Teambuilding Process
I started off this team wanting to build around Mega-Altaria. Actually, the first thing I look for in any stall build is the most effective way of beating opposing stalls, particularly when stall is on the upswing in terms of popularity. Stall vs. stall can be a very grindy and skill-testing matchup where small teambuilding choices turn into big advantages, so having a built-in advantage against common stall builds is awesome. At this point in time, the most common form of stall uses Mega-Sableye as an all-purpose wall and win condition with Calm Mind. Mega-Altaria puts a stop to that win-con business, while also providing an important utility move for stall matchups in Heal Bell. It's no slouch against offense either - the Fairy typing lets it beat most Dragons, while also serving as a strong answer to Keldeo, Thundurus, Charizard-Y, Gallade and Heracross.
Mega-Altaria has issues with Steel- and Fairy-type attackers like Excadrill, Scizor, Azumarill and Mega-Metagross, along with being slightly dead against the bulkier cores of opposing stall teams. One Pokemon that alleviates a bunch of these problems is Gourgeist. Gourgeist got a big upgrade from ORAS in the form of Synthesis. Access to reliable recovery lets it go from an underpowered "annoyer" in its small form to a legitimate wall in its bulkier "super" form. Access to the almost-unique combination of Leech Seed and Will-o-Wisp means that Gourgeist is wearing away at your opponent almost every time he's in a battle, and with good prediction he can be a huge factor in games.
Mega-Altaria and Gourgeist share an Ice-type weakness and both have trouble with Heatran and Greninja. Tentacruel does a pretty good job covering all of those bases. This is a Pokemon that is typically outshined by other bulky waters but has a big niche right now as one of the better defensive answers to Greninja, a format-dominating threat at the moment. The jellyfish also provides Rapid Spin, a huge luxury for stall, which gives the team a big edge in the hazard war.
These three Pokemon make up the defensive core that I look for when creating any stall team.
At this point I had a solid defensive backbone, so it's time to check the next big box - a consistent stallbreaker that synergizes with the squad. I don't know of that many non-mega stallbreakers that are good at the moment, so I turned to an old favorite - SpD Gliscor. This set has served me well in locking out many opposing stall teams during XY, and has the added benefit of beating a couple of threats I'm soft to like Landorus and Bisharp. It also provides a bunch of utility with Taunt, Knock Off and status absorption.
Now that I have a defensive core and some stallbreaking power, the final two slots typically serve as glue that provide additional utility or beat threats that slip through the core. The team as it stands is short on Stealth Rock, Toxic, and has a couple of notable weaknesses. Specifically, I'm cold to Mega-Diancie, Mega-Gardevoir, Mega-Pinsir, Mamoswine and Kyurem-Black. Hmm...Flying, Ice and Fairy type attacks...of course, every stall team needs a Steel-type! Heatran or Jirachi are the choices I typically look to, but here they fall flat against Pokemon that are packing Ground type moves (recall that I also had to plan for possible EQ Mega-Mences). With my two go-to options not quite fitting the team, I turned to a lesser-used Pokemon in Bronzong, which I think is very well positioned at the moment. Zong provides a great typing and the ability to check/counter a bunch of threats, along with Stealth Rock and Toxic as important utility moves.
With my last slot, the biggest thing I was looking for was either Wish or Healing Wish. Tentacruel and Bronzong are both performing very important roles and can sometimes get overworked, and each lacks reliable recovery and is prone to being worn down over the course of a game. For some time I ran a Scarfed Jirachi in this slot, which gave me Healing Wish, Trick as extra game against stall, some revenge killing power against offense and a bit of nice momentum with U-Turn. However, Jirachi is pretty redundant defensively with Bronzong, and I had a gaping weakness to Weavile (which was exposed rather nastily in an OU room mini-tour). So knowing I needed a Pokemon to provide recovery and beat Weavile, I settled on an Unaware Clefable with Calm Mind. This choice also gives me additional game against random setup-sweepers and Baton Pass, as well as being an additional wincon after the relevant Steel-types are removed.
Under the Microscope
Altaria @ Altarianite
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 248 HP / 216 Def / 28 SpD / 16 Spe
Bold Nature
- Hyper Voice
- Roost
- Heal Bell
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Something interesting to try might be a DD set - something like Dragon Dance / Body Slam / Roost with either Heal Bell or Earthquake. I've done some limited testing of this - it might require shuffling Heal Bell over to Clefable, taking away the CM sweep potential on that end, but DD Altaria does perform slightly better against offense. However, my suspicion is that the DD set requires a much more offensive EV spread, which would greatly impact Altaria's defensive presence. If you think that DD is a good option here, please let me know.
Testing Dragon Pulse as recommended by Albacore to improve the matchup against DD Char-X.
Gourgeist-Super @ Leftovers
Ability: Frisk
EVs: 232 HP / 216 Def / 60 Spe
Impish Nature
- Synthesis
- Will-O-Wisp
- Leech Seed
- Rock Slide / Substitute
Gourgeist-Super puts in a lot of work as a spinblocker and physically defensive behemoth while contributing an interesting combination of utility moves in Leech Seed and Will-O-Wisp. The addition of Synthesis in ORAS turns Gourgeist into a legitimate physical wall that can hang around with top-tier threats like Mega-Metagross, Azumarill, Mega-Scizor, Excadrill, Mega-Swampert, Mega-Lopunny and Mega-Gyarados while spreading crippling burns. The first two moves are pretty much mandatory for Gourgeist. Leech Seed is an additional form of recovery that lets you wear down switch-ins, particular Fire types looking to come in on Will-O-Wisp. The last slot is mostly up for grabs. Rock Slide is a nasty surprise for Talonflame and Charizard in particular, both of which typically assume Gourgeist poses no threat. Substitute can improve your viability against stall by avoiding status, while also easing prediction and not imposing too much cost due to Leech Seed recovery. Other options include Toxic, Shadow Sneak and Seed Bomb. This EV spread outspeeds standard CB Azumarill (88 speed) and hits a Leftovers number before putting the rest into Defense. It's still bulkier than no speed Gourgeist-Large, which is why I'm sticking with the Super form for now. Smaller forms have much more difficulty with Mega-Metagross in particular, which is a big sticking point, without really outspeeding much that's hugely important.
Something that's recently occurred to me is the possibility of replacing Leech Seed (which I previously deemed untouchable) with another utility move like Toxic, which might be higher-impact, if slightly less consistent. I haven't been able to test this idea.
Tentacruel @ Leftovers
Ability: Liquid Ooze
EVs: 224 HP / 252 SpD / 32 Spe
Calm Nature
- Scald
- Rapid Spin
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Tentacruel is a pretty good bulky water that has a big niche at the moment as one of the better counters to non-Extrasensory Greninja (which is just about all of them for now). It also provides Scald (one of the best moves in the game), hazard control, and additional utility in Knock Off and Rapid Spin. Tentacruel is basically all about utility in this team, as it doesn't really have a huge defensive responsibility other than keeping Greninja from ripping me apart. It does reasonably against some stall threats like Heatran and Ferrothorn, which is important, and keeps Stealth Rock off the field against offense, which is very important. Other than that, it can stay useful with the threat of a crippling Scald burn or by knocking off as many items as possible - and generally making a nuisance of itself. It is useful to note that Tentacruel's effectiveness increases a bunch with Clefable's Wish support, allowing it to hang around and spin multiple times throughout a match. The EVs are pretty standard - Tentacruel is surprisingly fast, and 32 EVs jumps stuff like Bisharp, while the rest goes into Special Defense and HP.
Tentacruel has a bunch of other moveslot options, almost all of which I've tried at some point. Haze and Acid Spray control stuff like CM boosters and Baton Pass, but the addition of CM Unaware Clefable makes these options less useful. Toxic Spikes are not so great in the current metagame. Reasonable coverage options are Ice Beam, Sludge Bomb or Giga Drain, but your special attack is not really high enough to make these very high impact. Other interesting choices could include Magic Coat or Infestation.
Acid Spray is a necessity to ensure I'm not spinblocked by Mega-Sableye, as pointed about by Albacore.
Substitute goes in as a way to stop Mega-Sableye stall from wearing down Tentacruel, through Will-O-Wisp, Leech Seed, Scalds, etc.
Gliscor @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 244 HP / 164 SpD / 100 Spe
Careful Nature
- Earthquake
- Taunt
- Knock Off
- Roost
SpD Gliscor has been a stalwart stallbreaker since early in XY, and it continues to be very good here. Gliscor can single-handedly dismantle a bunch of stall teams who foolishly believe that Mega-Sableye is enough of an answer, as Sableye is quickly worn down by Altaria, Clefable and Tentacruel. The combination of speed, bulk, Taunt and Knock Off is a massive pain for any stall team not rocking a Pokemon that can 2HKO Gliscor, which translates to "most of them". Earthquake and Taunt are pretty much mandatory, along with Roost for reliable recovery (Substitute isn't where this set wants to be). I chose Knock Off in the last slot over other options like Acrobatics or Ice Fang. On this team Gliscor is a pretty dedicated to breaking stall, and getting rid of items like Leftovers or Eviolite is very important to wearing down a well-built stall team. Gliscor also manages to be very useful against Offense, though, beating Landorus and Thundurus lacking HP Ice, most Bisharp, Excadrill, and knocking off a bunch of items. This particular EV spread speed-creeps speed-creeping Gliscor that are speed-creeping speed-creeping Gliscor. But really, I need to be faster than other Taunt Gliscor, and if I face one that's faster than this set, I'm gonna take that person's speed EV and add four and make it my new EV spread.
Not much to say for other options here. Acrobatics/Aerial Ace isn't so much needed with Mega-Altaria handling Mega-Heracross. Ice Fang is pretty alright coverage against Gliscor, Landorus, and a bunch of stuff that switches into Earthquakes, but dropping Taunt makes stallbreaking impossible, and dropping Knock Off makes stallbreaking much, much harder. It may be right on other teams, but I don't think it is on this one.
Bronzong @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Gyro Ball
- Earthquake
- Stealth Rock
- Toxic
Not much to say for possible other options on this set. Something I've considered is Rock Slide > EQ to help against Mega-Pinsir, but at this point I've pretty much just accepted that's a big weakness, and no EQ would put me at the mercy of MegaGross and Magnezone to an unreasonable extent.
Clefable @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Wish
- Protect
- Moonblast
- Calm Mind
Our final team member is Clefable, who's been great since the beginning of XY and continues to perform here. This Pokemon was a late addition, but has proven to be a great choice to alleviate some of the team's weaknesses. In particular, Bronzong and Tentacruel need some help staying healthy, so Wish-Passing is the most crucial role Clefable can perform in game. Unaware is preferred over Magic Guard since we have a Cleric elsewhere on the team, and Unaware gives us a fantastic catch-all response to boosting sweepers that we may otherwise provide too many set-up opportunities to. Calm Mind goes in the last slot for a bunch of utility. It lets you beat Scolipede-based Baton Pass, opposing CM boosters, and serves as a late-game wincon against stall (after Pokemon like Chansey and Heatran are sufficiently weakened). Other options like Flamethrower or Stealth Rock are used better elsewhere on the team. I went with a fully physical defensive spread since the Calm set's ability to beat Greninja is long gone, and I wanted a buffer against Talonflame in particular.
This set could change to the dedicated CM Magic Guard variant, but that would leave Tentacruel and Bronzong in the cold as far as recovery goes. Clefable and Altaria overlap to an extent, so some shuffling of Flamethrower/Heal Bell/Set-up between the two could be possible.
Threatlist
Fast LO SD Bisharp can 6-0 this team if Gliscor is sufficiently weakened beforehand. Gotta make sure to provide it as few set up opportunities as possible and keep Gliscor healthy.
Mega-Pinsir has no solid counters on this team. Bronzong is a decent check, but Magnezone softens it up. The typical gameplan is Bronzong on the SD, Toxic it while you take a hit, Gyro Ball it to get in some damage before you die, and then go to Clefable to Protect stall while it dies to Toxic. This is obviously not optimal and sometimes not possible when Zong gets weakened. Fortunately Mega-Pinsir is not hugely common at the moment.
Specs Heatran with Earth Power and HP Ice can punch through my special walls, although it can be played around and worn down with entry hazards and chip damage.
LO Knock Off Mamoswine doesn't seem like a common set, but it is one that beat me.
Finally, a CritDra beat me without much effort.
Final Thoughts
That wraps up the team. I think that Mega-Altaria is going to prove to be one of the best mega-evolutions for stall as the ORAS metagame evolves, and this team is IMO a decent attempt at showing its prowess. The backbone is very solid against a majority of the biggest threats out there and isn't passive at all, which is becoming more and more important for stall as the threats hit harder and harder. However, the team is definitely not perfect, so hopefully brighter minds than mine can identify some ways to improve it. Leave any comments or ideas, no matter how vague or speculative, below - I appreciate any and all input.
Shoutouts to The DragonKnight, AM, and Ajwf for assisting with the team, along with all the users in PS's OU room who answer my silly and unhelpfully vague questions in chat.
Importable:
Altaria @ Altarianite
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 248 HP / 216 Def / 28 SpD / 16 Spe
Bold Nature
- Hyper Voice
- Roost
- Heal Bell
- Dragon Pulse
Gourgeist-Super @ Leftovers
Ability: Frisk
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
Impish Nature
- Synthesis
- Will-O-Wisp
- Leech Seed
- Rock Slide
Tentacruel @ Leftovers
Ability: Liquid Ooze
EVs: 224 HP / 252 SpD / 32 Spe
Calm Nature
- Scald
- Rapid Spin
- Acid Spray
- Substitute
Gliscor @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 244 HP / 164 SpD / 100 Spe
Careful Nature
- Earthquake
- Taunt
- Knock Off
- Roost
Bronzong @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Gyro Ball
- Earthquake
- Stealth Rock
- Toxic
Clefable @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 160 Def / 96 SpD
Calm Nature
- Wish
- Protect
- Moonblast
- Calm Mind
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 248 HP / 216 Def / 28 SpD / 16 Spe
Bold Nature
- Hyper Voice
- Roost
- Heal Bell
- Dragon Pulse
Gourgeist-Super @ Leftovers
Ability: Frisk
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
Impish Nature
- Synthesis
- Will-O-Wisp
- Leech Seed
- Rock Slide
Tentacruel @ Leftovers
Ability: Liquid Ooze
EVs: 224 HP / 252 SpD / 32 Spe
Calm Nature
- Scald
- Rapid Spin
- Acid Spray
- Substitute
Gliscor @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 244 HP / 164 SpD / 100 Spe
Careful Nature
- Earthquake
- Taunt
- Knock Off
- Roost
Bronzong @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Gyro Ball
- Earthquake
- Stealth Rock
- Toxic
Clefable @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 160 Def / 96 SpD
Calm Nature
- Wish
- Protect
- Moonblast
- Calm Mind
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