Ladder STABmons (the old one)

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It seems pretty neat on paper. No Guard Sing is probably the main reason to use it, although No Guard Hurricane is really good too and it has the obvious Boomburst to wrecks shit. I don't know about set-up, but Sing + 3 Attacks seems solid enough with Sing / Hurricane / Boomburst / Heat Wave. You could also realistically run some type of Hidden Power to hit other things, but yea.
 
I've been running U-turn in the 4th slot and leaving things like Tyranitar, Chansey, and Heatran for team mates to deal with. Works pretty well since the threat of Sing/Boomburst/Hurricane tends to force a lot of switches.
 
With U-Turn and a trapper (Dugtrio) I can see MPidgey being super annoying to deal with, especially with the lack of switch-ins (Which Duggy kindly provides). Soundproof is given to unviable pokemon and / or pokemon Dugtrio can OHKO easy so you don't have to worry about any immunities to Sing. U-Turn even pops Balloons on Tran so this combo is unescapable hehe. Just be wary of scarftran / scarftar o-o It can KO Duggy after Rocks and dispatches MPidgey with ease.
 
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Thanks to ORAS, Diggersby can now run coverage moves to beat some of its old counters. Gengar, who used to be a surefire check, is now too risky to switch in for fear of Knock Off. Ferrothorn was a solid check too, but dreads the thought of eating a 4x effective Fire Punch. Landorus-T feels the same about Ice Punch and Gyarados the same about Thunder Punch. Fortunately, Diggersby can't run all the coverage it needs while maintaining its superb revenging potential with FakeSpeed and Earthquake. So unless you're running w0rd 's elemental bunny set, you're going to keep missing out on beating its checks. And even then, Skarmory takes less from Fire or Thunder Punch than it did from Wild Charge, which was already a shaky 2HKO.

I've always been an advocate of Smack Down for its ability to catch Flyers and Levitators off guard on the switch. I'm starting to think that the best route isn't loading up Diggersby with coverage or predicting when to use Smack Down, however. Diggersby is your revenger, so why burden it with a bunch of moves that reduce that capacity? Priority is its ace, it's what keeps most the metagame in check. I say we need to go back to basics. I say: U-turn.

U-turn isn't about doing a lot of damage, which is ironic when you put it on something as powerful as Diggersby. It's all about momentum and in STABmons, when you're usually only one turn away from a Belly Drum sweep, momentum can keep you alive. Instead of loading up Diggersby with elemental punches and Knock Off, give it U-turn to switch into something that deals with its checks and counters. This is not a new strategy, but it's a good one, and one I think people tend to forget in the era of ORAS.

First teammate option:
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Water is a solid offensive type in STABmons. It also grants the use of the insanely powerful move Water Spout, a move that defined Gen V STABmons. Keldeo is the most obvious user of the move and even though we all know how strong it is, a lot of teams are not prepared for it. By U-turning your Diggersby into Keldeo, you can either obliterate the target or take a big chunk out of whatever tries to switch in next. There are only a few dedicated Keldeo counters, Mega Slowbro being one of the best right now, but most of them aren't immediately threatening themselves, so if they show up, you can usually get out safely.

Greninja is a faster but weaker Water Spouter. It's a lot more versatile than that, however. Not only does it check most of the same Diggersby checks as Keldeo, it also can provide its own support via Dark Void, Knock Off, or Parting Shot, a move which continues the chain of momentum. It also has a fast Taunt, a move that a lot of Diggersby checks hate since it strips them of recovery, phazing, and status. When choosing between Keldeo and Greninja, boil it down to the basics. Do you want solid Speed and ridiculous Water Spouts? Pick Keldeo. Do you want a lot of Speed, solid attacking power, and versatility? Pick Greninja.
Checks: Landorus-T, Skarmory after Sturdy break, Gliscor

Second teammate option:
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Magnezone usually runs two sets: A Doom Desire set with King's Shield and Volt Switch or a trapping set. The trapper set is what you want if you're pairing with Diggersby. U-turn into it when your opponent brings in their Skarmory or Ferrothorn. Gyarados without Earthquake won't like seeing it, either. And even though things like Gyarados and other non-Steels can switch out, you can use that to your advantage and Volt Switch on their switch, furthering the momentum yet again!

You can give it a choice item, a boosting item, or even leftovers. Hidden Power Fire is recommended most of the time since Hidden Power Ground misses out on Steels with Air Balloons, namely Heatran, who often beat Magnezone anyway.
Checks: Skarmory, Ferrothorn, some Gyarados

Third teammate option:
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What if you want to accomplish a combination of the above two teammates with only one slot? Thundurus says hi. It has power, it has versatility, it has momentum, and it has utility all wrapped up in one Pokemon. Firstly, Taunt shuts down a lot of Diggersby checks. Secondly, its STABs are helpful in beating most of them since a lot are weak to either Electric or Flying, and those who aren't like Lando-T and Gliscor really can't do much back to Thundurus with their STABs. Thirdly, Thundurus can go special, physical, or mixed with ease, making it highly unpredictable. And fourthly, it grants your team more momentum thanks to Volt Switch.

I recommend Prankster when paired with Diggersby because you get the fastest Taunt in case Sableye switches in on your bunny. Defiant is cool for absorbing Parting Shot/Intimidate, but those will often hit Diggersby, not Thundurus, and Diggersby is just U-turning out so it doesn't mind the drops. Defiant is still solid if you choose it instead.
Checks: All of the above plus Tangrowth and Chesnaught


When adding these options to your team, it's important to remember they're paving the way for Diggersby to smash things with its STABs, thus reducing the workload on the bunny. You'll want hazard removal support since all the U-turning and Volt Switching will rack up Stealth Rock/Spikes damage pretty quickly on your side. You'll also want hazard support to lay them against the opponent, because they'll be switching a lot, too, and it's important to break Sturdy. Another thing to note is Diggersby can be swapped out for another bunny, Lopunny, who often struggles with the same checks, and will appreciate their removal before it goes on a Belly Drum rampage. Quagsire is a good Lopunny check and luckily Thundurus, Keldeo, and Greninja make decent Quagsire-removal-mons already.

So there's a primer on supporting the biggest threat in STABmons. Anything you would change? Anything that still manages to beat this strategy? Add your thoughts!
 
Eevee General I'd suggest running Choice Scarf Keldeo because it can revenge kill a ton of stuff, most importantly Mega Aerodactyl, and is generally nice to spread around a fast burn so Diggersby is free to sweep late-game!
 
unfixable said:
Eevee General I'd suggest running Choice Scarf Keldeo because it can revenge kill a ton of stuff, most importantly Mega Aerodactyl, and is generally nice to spread around a fast burn so Diggersby is free to sweep late-game!
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I have found the raw power of specs spout to be so good it makes it worth it, and i leave checking those mons to something else. Just go on the calc. Look at that nonsense. Nuff said. Also, most of the things you come in on are walls, and things like scizor and many others dont need to be outsped with scarf. Since that slot is all about momentum, I love to force in a wall and nuke something on the switch with an outrageous attack.
 
I've been playing around with Mega Slowbro a bit, and it is ridiculously good. Shell Armor is way better than we imagined it would be when they announced it.

Here are some replays (from the ladder - so take them with a pinch of salt) where I was trying out a Cosmic Power set.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/stabmons-188787960
In this battle, my Slowbro casually sets up on a Shift Gear Bisharp and a Dragon Dance Kyurem-Black lol
My opponent also had a Slowbro and although I managed to formulate a plan to take it down. I ended up losing half of my team in the process.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/stabmons-188655275
In this one it tanks what appears to be an Adamant Choice Banded Electivire's Volt Tackle (that's a super effective 120 BP move from 123 base attack)
and also manages to 1v1 a Dragon Dance Mega Tyranitar

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/stabmons-188576202
This one was won the moment I trapped his Latios. Slowbro walled 5 out of 6 members of a pretty standard team.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/stabmons-188316278
>The opposing Slurpuff used Geomancy!
Still set up fodder for Slowbro

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/stabmons-188258585
Even while Leech Seeded, Slowbro almost sweeps a fairly standard team before getting Roared out.

I also tried a couple of other sets (RestTalk Calm Mind, Offensive Calm Mind, Slack off + T wave + 2 attacks) and they were great too but I didn't get any replays.
 
w0rd said:
I've been playing around with Mega Slowbro a bit, and it is ridiculously good. Shell Armor is way better than we imagined it would be when they announced it.

Here are some replays (from the ladder - so take them with a pinch of salt) where I was trying out a Cosmic Power set.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/stabmons-188787960
In this battle, my Slowbro casually sets up on a Shift Gear Bisharp and a Dragon Dance Kyurem-Black lol
My opponent also had a Slowbro and although I managed to formulate a plan to take it down. I ended up losing half of my team in the process.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/stabmons-188655275
In this one it tanks what appears to be an Adamant Choice Banded Electivire's Volt Tackle (that's a super effective 120 BP move from 123 base attack)
and also manages to 1v1 a Dragon Dance Mega Tyranitar

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/stabmons-188576202
This one was won the moment I trapped his Latios. Slowbro walled 5 out of 6 members of a pretty standard team.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/stabmons-188316278
>The opposing Slurpuff used Geomancy!
Still set up fodder for Slowbro

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/stabmons-188258585
Even while Leech Seeded, Slowbro almost sweeps a fairly standard team before getting Roared out.

I also tried a couple of other sets (RestTalk Calm Mind, Offensive Calm Mind, Slack off + T wave + 2 attacks) and they were great too but I didn't get any replays.
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Watch out for Sableye tho
 
Exactly. I noticed that setup is starting to crop up in the metagame again. And why not? Set up at the right time, a SS/ESpeed/FPunch/IPunch Diggersby can shake things up quite a bit.

Hence I recommend that everyone use a Quagsire, or better yet, a TopsyTurvy Sableye in your team.

On the topic of sweepers and revengers, try Head Smash/Dragon Ascent AeroM that I posted in the Underrated sets thread. Precipice Blades Digger is also madly powerful.
 
Throbulator36 said:
Watch out for Sableye tho
Click to expand...

Sableye is actually pretty low on the list of things Mega Slowbro needs to watch out for - I'd be more worried about Chansey and Thundurus. Most sets (barring the rare Destiny Bond sets)will only delay Slowbro from doing its thing, rather than actually eliminating it - which is what you need to do with a threat this big.
 
Due to having extremely high powered megas in the tier as it stands, Lopunny, Slowbro, and Metagross, could there be any possibility for a retest of currently banned particularly mega-Mawile and possibly mega Lucario? All three are most commonly run as sweepers (except for possibly Lucario, since he was banned from OU, due to sweeper sets and versatility, before Gen VI STABmons got going), able to utilize both shift gear and a resistance to the most prevalent method of revenge killing (espeed) making them all potent and terrifying to deal with once they get going. I will admit though it is very early in the metagame to begin analyzing if these previously banned pokemon have been power-creeped, but just by looking at their roles, seem as if they would be no more broken than the aforementioned megas.
Mawile particularly seems as though it functions in nearly the same role as does m-Metagross, however Mawile cuts its speed by about a third , which makes it able to be revenged by positive natured scarfed base 75s such as Keldeo, Heatran, after a single shift gear and gives up significant physical (mitigated by intimidate however) and special bulk for just slightly more power, as seen in the following calcs:

252+ Atk Metagross Gear Grind (2 hits) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mew: 192-228 (47.5 - 56.4%) -- approx. 18% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Gear Grind (2 hits) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mew: 308-366 (76.2 - 90.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

One thing to note however is the difference in coverage options between the two. Metagross's movepool give it amazing boons such as earthquake for Heatran, whereas Mawile must use either brick break, which is king's shield fodder, or sucker punch, unreliable, to beat. On top of this, Metagross has access to all three of the elemental punches, while Mawile must use fire fang if it wants to run fire as it's third move. However Mawile's fairy STAB is actually useful bot offensively and defensively.
M-Lucario seems like it's different however. In terms of a shift gear sweeper, it is completely outclassed, in ability, and bulk, and to an extent coverage as well, so I won't discuss that set's merits, since based on performance in that role alone, mega Lucario should be allowed back into the tier. What I believe is the barrier for Lucario is its ability to run mixed or full special. This forces your opponent to guess as to which set it could be running, possibly forcing them to sacrifice a pokemon just to find out. Even with this however, I don't think that this alone should cause him to remain banned, since his versatility makes him perform like an upgraded version of mega Absol or mega Houndoom, or a downgraded version of mega Altaria.

Overall, mawilite is definitely not broken in the tier (at least not relative to other threats in the current metagame), and lucarionite should at least be seriously considered whether or not it is broken as the meta stands.
 
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The council is discussing potential bans, unbans and suspects as the Meta proceeds forward.

Plus - and do not take this as an official announcement, but the council has a surprise for the tier this holiday season.

Keep guessing. Rest assured, if you think something important in the meta is being overlooked, it's not. The council always has it covered.

We're discreet about it because we're cool, you know, underground and shit.
 
Suspect Discussion!
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This will be the first of three Pokemon we're suspecting in rapid succession over the next week or so. ORAS has given STABmons a lot of powerful new megas and some have proven to be very centralizing and/or unstoppable with their combination of stats, abilities, high-powered attacks, and typing.

#1. Mega Lopunny
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- Scrappy
65 / 136 / 94 / 54 / 96 / 135
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  • If you are in favor of banning a suspect, please provide examples of why they are unhealthy for the metagame with replays, calcs, anecdotes explaining their over-centralization, lack of true checks/counters, etc.
  • If you are not in favor of a ban, please provide the examples of how they are reliably checked/countered by other Pokemon that can still function well in STABmons.
Discussions will last as long as it takes for the council to review feedback and vote. GL/HF
 
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