Metagame NP: RU Stage 5: Gods and Monsters (HOUNDOOMINITE IS BL2, READ POST #178)

[Hot N Cold]

mfw uu council banned bunny.

Even if finally bunny was banned in a next quickban rounds from the tier, we're supposed to make the best and right decision asap no matters how much suspect rounds we're getting to ban something tbh Theres no way bunny was balance in RU when is broken in UU (banned from the tier), is kinda hilarious.

I guess that says something.

 

[Ares]

You can hardly compare whether something is broken in one tier to another, they are completely different and hence have different things that can make something broken. Look at Shuckle, that thing was pretty bad in NU because of all of the defoggers, where as in RU it was really good because of the fact that there weren't any good spinners that could beat Doublade and Braviary deterred Defog. A good example of one thing being broken in a higher tier and not a lower.

 

[Hot N Cold]

You can hardly compare whether something is broken in one tier to another, they are completely different and hence have different things that can make something broken. Look at Shuckle, that thing was pretty bad in NU because of all of the defoggers, where as in RU it was really good because of the fact that there weren't any good spinners that could beat Doublade and Braviary deterred Defog. A good example of one thing being broken in a higher tier and not a lower.

>implying I have no idea about UU
>ex uu council user

Nope. You're wrong here, maybe because acknowledge about UU/RU?

Theres extremely a few exceptions and works with metagames really very differents, like a pokemon which is really good at certain tiers as supporter (Klefki or Shuckle) or see Wallrein being broken in BW RU for obvious reasons but completely shit in PU tier or whatever tier is.

UnderUsed tier have been used popular RU trends as Gligar (which people mentioned as Lopunny check, lol!!). UU have lot of offensive threats so is easier to pressure Lopunny with offense pressure, on UU you're kinda forced to use Jolly Bunny if you wanna beat standard stuff like Crobat, unlike on this tier. So I'm sorry thats not the case.

I'm talking on this thing, not as whole one tho :)

 

[Molk]

welp, the thing's gone anyway, there's no need to argue about it anymore x.x.

EDIT: GDI bouff lying,,,,,

 

[boltsandbombers]

welp, the thing's gone anyway, there's no need to argue about it anymore x.x.

Is it really true that UU banned it? I haven't seen any posts in the policy review or their tiering records that it was banned.

 

[aVocado]

Is it really true that UU banned it? I haven't seen any posts in the policy review or their tiering records that it was banned.

It's not official yet but yes they did

whatever though, compared to every other Pokemon that has been quickbanned so far in all the other tiers, Lopunny doesn't even look so quickban-worthy anyway. it wasn't a pokemon that destroyed all playstyles like mence did in ou, or gallade in ru, or anything.

 

[Hopeee]

Why is everyone getting their panties in a wad over mega-lop? First off, it isnt that broken. There are so many other broken things in the tier (im looking at u mel). It has answers, it isnt that powerful, and it just isnt that great imo. and it is DEFINITELY not the worst thing to happen to RU Spirit
Lop is really a waste of a teamslot right now cus savior doge is running around, and NOTHING switches in on THAT.

Fletch right now is the best mon in the tier after savior doge, so just everyone calm down. there are far more broken things in the tier than mega-lop

 

[Hopeee]

It's not official yet but yes they did

whatever though, compared to every other Pokemon that has been quickbanned so far in all the other tiers, Lopunny doesn't even look so quickban-worthy anyway. it wasn't a pokemon that destroyed all playstyles like mence did in ou, or gallade in ru, or anything.

mega lop was banned? dayum kokoloko strikes again n_n

 

[the tipsy spinda]

yay?

 

[Holiday]

Not on topic but we, as a tier, never expressed a problem of Mega Bee, but UU Beedrill is a slayer of monsters. A pokemon can be better in a tier above it, or could be more useful in a tier below it.

 

[Tom the Bomb]

http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/np-oras-uu-stage-1-changes.3522744/page-9#post-5902261
lop wasn't actually banned, rejoice ru

Edit: I am a master ninja

 

[GlassGlaceon]

Lop isn't banned :/

it got 5 votes and a minimum of 6 is needed for ban iirc so ye ty uu

:]

edit: ninjad ;[

 

[atomicllamas]

Hotncold was never disputing that a mon could be better in a tier above or below, rather that this is not the case for Lopunny

Hot N Cold's post also fails to take into account that UU retests all bans and has little interest in community input (in terms of suspect testing) while neither is the case for RU.

 

[Hot N Cold]

Hot N Cold's post also fails to take into account that UU retests all bans and has little interest in community input (in terms of suspect testing) while neither is the case for RU.

We're supposed to do that but this case was a QuickBan Test with Lopunny-Mega, just take a bit serious a round instead than wasting time doing different suspects test, even then at suspect ladder this is a less effective method (this is just a personal opinion).

 

[atomicllamas]

We're supposed to do that but this case was a QuickBan Test with Lopunny-Mega, just take a bit serious a round instead than wasting time doing different suspects test, even then at suspect ladder this is a less effective method (this is just a personal opinion).

I literally can't understand this post? Just cause something is put up for quickban doesn't mean it will always be quickbanned? I don't see the huge rush to ban this without a suspect test, we lose nothing by taking a more in depth look at this.

 

[mertyville]

yay, Loppuny didn't go BL so RU can still enjoy it a little longer :>

 

[HypnoEmpire]

Hello! I haven't posted in a while x_x Anyway, I thought I would post some thoughts on Pokemon that I have been using recently.

What even switches safely into a Mega Houndoom aside from really uncommon stuff like Hariyama and Zweilous?

Something I've been using recently is Sacred Sword Doublade. Sacred Sword is much more viable now with Houndoom running around and it has some other uses too, such as breaking Registeel and Cobalion faster, completely destroying SubBU Braviary (haven't seen it recently but w/e), hitting stuff like Magneton and Heliolisk if they try switching into an Iron Head, and also helps ease prediction a bit. I use the typical SD Doublade set, but with Sacred Sword>Shadow Claw. I recommend giving it a try.

I honestly feel as though Hitmonlee's viability hasn't really decreased much. It lures in the same stuff (Aromatisse, Amoonguss) and can hit them with Double-Edge :3 I would say that it does its main job quite well. Spiritomb, Cresselia, and Doublade are still annoying, but nothing new there.

Archeops is pretty fun to use. I've been using a lead set with Taunt, Stealth Rock, Endeavor, and Knock Off and had success with it. It doesn't really like Fake Out leads (Lopunny and lol Ambipom), Rock Blast Rhyperior, and Scald burns from Omastar and other stuff, but it does okay.

Dragalge is a lord. Its typing gives it switch in opportunities against a bunch of stuff like the Electric-types, Clawitzer, defensive stuff including Amoonguss (after Spore), Aromatisse, and Alomomomola, and other stuff that I'm too lazy to remember. Its Adaptability Specs Draco Meteors destroy even some of the most SpD Pokemon. A huge threat right now. If you desperately need a switch-in, Bronzong and AV Escavalier are pretty cool.

I haven't used M-Lopunny at all yet, but it was a pain trying to get around it. It does really well against most of my offensive teams thanks to its amazing speed backed up by great Atk and high powered STABs.

 

[Hot N Cold]

I literally can't understand this post? Just cause something is put up for quickban doesn't mean it will always be quickbanned? I don't see the huge rush to ban this without a suspect test, we lose nothing by taking a more in depth look at this.

I just feel that council didnt take too serious this quickban test, knowing we're getting another quickban suspect on the next week(s). In my opinion is something that should getting banned on this quick ban test, I'm always open to listen different opinions as long how they are solid but then the lopunny reasoning was kinda poorly with false statements. I can mention each statement that I consider fake but at this point is probably not worth n_n

I just dislike the lazy mentality about "we lose nothing by talking a more in depth", thats not really rigorous but again this is a personal opinion because I believe how broken is Lopunny.

 

[Mew2]

Haven't played/ posted in a while, time to post my fav pokes atm:

Cresselia @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 152 Def / 104 SpD
Bold Nature
- Moonblast
- Psychic
- Moonlight
- Thunder Wave

This thing is the only good counter to Mega Lopunny, takes less than a third from return, resists High Jump Kick and can retaliate with a STAB Psychic or cripple with T-Wave for the rest of the match. She also posses reliable recovery in the form of Moonlight and can take special hits well. If you need a mixed wall that counters OP Mega Bunny use this thing.
Fun calcs:

• 252+ Atk Lopunny Return vs. 252 HP / 152+ Def Cresselia: 130-154 (29.2 - 34.6%) -- 100% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
  
• 252+ SpA Life Orb Sceptile Leaf Storm vs. 252 HP / 104 SpD Cresselia: 242-285 (54.5 - 64.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
  
• 52+ SpA Life Orb Sceptile Dragon Pulse vs. 252 HP / 104 SpD Cresselia: 157-187 (35.3 - 42.1%) -- 88.5% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
  
• 252 SpA Choice Specs Moltres Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 104 SpD Cresselia: 193-228 (43.4 - 51.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

Kabutops @ Life Orb
Ability: Weak Armor
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Aqua Jet
- Knock Off / Waterfall
- Stone Edge

Decent spinner, especially with Doublade being as rare as it is, he is also a decent bird check; Fletchinder, Megs Pidgeot, Moltres you name it. Overall while not a fantastic poke he is certainly better than in XY RU.

Accelgor @ Focus Sash
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Spikes
- Encore
- Bug Buzz
- Final Gambit

Another amazing yet underrated mon, with HO being a great play style in this state, Accelgor sets up spikes easily on your opponent's field and, unlike Omastar (which I never liked), he has 2 guaranteed layers of spikes and with Encore he can easily annoy other leads like the previously mentioned Omastar. Finally he can use Final Gambit which always deals the exact damage ignoring your opponent's defense. Another underrated poke here my friends.

LOL won't even post a set

Let's face it, this thing is pretty broken; amazing STAB coverage and thanks to scrappy she isn't walled by ghost types like Doublade and Spiritomb. Wanna wall it? Good luck trying that; Gligar? Ice punch 2HKOes, Spiritomb? Scrappy HJK, Alomomola? If spikes are up nope. Well you might as well revenge kill it right? Sounds pretty easy but unless your name is Fletchinder you'll need a scarf to accomplish that task. So yea, this thing is pretty broken although I certainly don't like how certain users are being rude to the council because they didn't "chose well". While I am not saying you shouldn't point out your disagreement with the RU council, I've seen a horrible negativity towards them since late XY with Moltres decision. While you have all the right to disagree with them, don't forget that you won't accomplish much if you're rude towards them :)

 

[EonX]

Mew2, I definitely like Accelgor. I've actually liked it since the latter stages of XY RU tbh. In fact, in my PotW interview (get back on those Leer btw) a couple of months ago, I even mentioned that I believed it to be the best Spikes user in the tier at the time. Even with all of the changes now, I still believe this to be the case. I especially like it with Support Cobalion as you not only get a Rocks setter, but also a bit of an anti-lead / scout lead to keep the opponent from simply preparing for an Accelgor lead in Team Preview. And yes, support Cobalion is still really solid in the current meta. Not quite as great as it was late stage 3 - early stage 4, but still pretty solid. Just sucks to get boned by literally half the new Megas :( And because I'm not one to just get hit with a back-handed accusation and let it slide:

I just feel that council didnt take too serious this quickban test, knowing we're getting another quickban suspect on the next week(s). In my opinion is something that should getting banned on this quick ban test, I'm always open to listen different opinions as long how they are solid but then the lopunny reasoning was kinda poorly with false statements. I can mention each statement that I consider fake but at this point is probably not worth n_n

I just dislike the lazy mentality about "we lose nothing by talking a more in depth", thats not really rigorous but again this is a personal opinion because I believe how broken is Lopunny.

Um, no. I may not be able to speak for the rest of the council members that voted no ban on Mega Lopunny (well ok, I can speak for llamas since he was at, like, #6 or something on the ladder at one point on an alt) but I can say I wasn't lazy a bit about this quickban test. I played nearly 100 games on multiple alts in about a 5 day span once I finally had the time to try stuff out (ORAS hit when I was at a local convention and Thanksgiving was right after that) and p. much anyone who frequents the RU room on PS could confirm this. I not only tested the new megas (and fell in love with Mega Pidgeot in the process) but also different playstyles. In fact, the only 3 Megas I didn't get around to testing before the vote were Audino, Sharpedo, and Camerupt (all of which I watched / faced in battle and I've since played with Camerupt myself) I don't mind one bit if you've got a different opinion than I do. Heck, I don't even mind you calling into questioning the reasoning I put down because I'll admit that I kinda rushed it at first since it was, like, 12:40 am and I thought it needed to be done before I went to bed that night. But if you're just gonna call me out on something like not taking a quickban test seriously and try to be coy about doing it, then that's where I'll have an issue.

Before I go, I just wanted to leave this little guy here:

Sceptile-Mega (F) @ Sceptilite
Ability: Lightning Rod
EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Leaf Storm
- Dragon Pulse
- Focus Blast
- Giga Drain

Crediting atomicllamas for giving me the idea to run this set. While Sub + 3 Attacks Mega Sceptile is really damn annoying for offense to face, simply using Leaf Storm over Sub can give Mega Sceptile some utility vs. fatter teams. Leaf Storm is a fantastic move to run if you want Sceptile to KO opposing Pokemon that maybe have just enough special bulk to handle Dragon Pulse and KO in return. Meloetta is a key target since it can otherwise deal serious damage with Hyper Voice / Psychic. It isn't nearly as good of a switch-in to the likes of Spiritomb or Shiftry without the ability to set up a Substitute, but being able to take out specially bulky attackers such as Pangoro and Meloetta can be a nice trade-off.

 

[Saria]

Haven't played/ posted in a while, time to post my fav pokes atm:

Cresselia @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 152 Def / 104 SpD
Bold Nature
- Moonblast
- Psychic
- Moonlight
- Thunder Wave

This thing is the only good counter to Mega Lopunny, takes less than a third from return, resists High Jump Kick and can retaliate with a STAB Psychic or cripple with T-Wave for the rest of the match. She also posses reliable recovery in the form of Moonlight and can take special hits well. If you need a mixed wall that counters OP Mega Bunny use this thing.
Fun calcs:

• 252+ Atk Lopunny Return vs. 252 HP / 152+ Def Cresselia: 130-154 (29.2 - 34.6%) -- 100% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
  
• 252+ SpA Life Orb Sceptile Leaf Storm vs. 252 HP / 104 SpD Cresselia: 242-285 (54.5 - 64.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
  
• 52+ SpA Life Orb Sceptile Dragon Pulse vs. 252 HP / 104 SpD Cresselia: 157-187 (35.3 - 42.1%) -- 88.5% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
  
• 252 SpA Choice Specs Moltres Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 104 SpD Cresselia: 193-228 (43.4 - 51.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

That's Life Orb Mega Sceptile, which doesn't exist.

252+ SpA Sceptile Leaf Storm vs. 252 HP / 104 SpD Cresselia: 186-219 (41.8 - 49.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Sceptile Dragon Pulse vs. 252 HP / 104 SpD Cresselia: 121-144 (27.2 - 32.4%) -- 64.7% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

[Meru]

Dragalge is a lord. Its typing gives it switch in opportunities against a bunch of stuff like the Electric-types, Clawitzer, defensive stuff including Amoonguss (after Spore), Aromatisse, and Alomomomola, and other stuff that I'm too lazy to remember. Its Adaptability Specs Draco Meteors destroy even some of the most SpD Pokemon. A huge threat right now. If you desperately need a switch-in, Bronzong and AV Escavalier are pretty cool.

Wouldn't the Specs set easily have the moveslot for Sleep Talk, especially since it's an amazing switch-in to Amoonguss? I can't really figure out what you would run beyond Sludge Wave/Bomb, Draco Meteor, and Dragon Pulse. Being locked into anything else (Scald) would mean you're not only missing your Adaptability boost, but you're missing your STAB, and you're severe set-up fodder for almost anything else.

 

[aoemica]

Wouldn't the Specs set easily have the moveslot for Sleep Talk, especially since it's an amazing switch-in to Amoonguss? I can't really figure out what you would run beyond Sludge Wave/Bomb, Draco Meteor, and Dragon Pulse. Being locked into anything else (Scald) would mean you're not only missing your Adaptability boost, but you're missing your STAB, and you're severe set-up fodder for almost anything else.

I am fond of Focus Blast and/or HP Fire as additional coverage options. Focus Blast smacks Registeel for a nice 2HKO (assuming you hit twice anyways), and HP Fire allows you to hit Bronzong and Escavalier. Either one will also hit Mega Steelix and the occasional Eviolite Magneton harder than anything else it would run. I agree that Scald/Hydro Pump aren't really great coverage options for the Specs set since they don't really hit enough to merit a slot, but I am not sure I would want to forgo one of its additional coverage moves for Sleep Talk personally, especially since I've found it to be somewhat unreliable in gen 6 as a whole.

 

[Oglemi]

Played around a bit tonight on the ladder to see what the fuss was about with THE BUNNY, this was the team I ended up creating:

importable if anyone wants it

Lopunny @ Lopunnite
Ability: Limber
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Fake Out
- High Jump Kick
- Return
- Baton Pass

Sharpedo @ Life Orb
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Aqua Jet
- Waterfall
- Crunch
- Earthquake

Durant @ Choice Band
Ability: Hustle
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Iron Head
- X-Scissor
- Superpower
- Crunch

Fletchinder
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Acrobatics
- Overheat
- U-turn
- Will-O-Wisp

Druddigon @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 236 HP / 252 Atk / 20 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Outrage
- Stealth Rock
- Fire Punch
- Pursuit

Virizion @ Life Orb
Ability: Justified
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Leaf Blade
- Close Combat
- Synthesis

Some thoughts: THE BUNNY is good, really good. Maybe even too good. But it has a lot of trouble getting some KOs, particularly on stuff like Slowking, Escavalier, Bronzong, Cresselia, Weezing, Gligar, Golbat, and a few others that can get in and remove it or cripple it. It lacks priority outside of Fake Out, which is a big point to keep in mind, which allows stuff like Fletchinder and stuff like Hitmontop to revenge it. And don't give me the "technitop sucks" argument, adapt to the fucking metagame. THE BUNNY also doesn't have an easy time switching in, it's pretty frail and can't afford to get hit by status at all.

Virizion is awesome in this meta and partners really well with THE BUNNY. I could probably afford to run Lum Berry or Stone Edge since I don't find myself using Synthesis a whole lot. I love that Viri is able to switch into basically every Water in the tier and force them out.

Fletch is really good in this meta just in general, there's a ton of Fighting- and Grass-types it destroys and actually isn't as much of a pussy as I thought it was when it comes to tanking attacks. I don't even have Defog or spin on this team and it still pulled its weight really well.

MEGASHARK is way more threatening than I would have initially thought and threatens this team in particular pretty well, especially if it has Ice Fang. IMO it's probably another suspect candidate since it's able to blow right past most of its previous counters and requires quite a bit more specialization to handle than even THE BUNNY does, iirc it does even more with Crunch than THE BUNNY does with HJK.

I actually didn't see a single Houndoom tonight as I was playing which was really surprising to me. I mean I guess it's not too surprising considering MEGASHARK and THE BUNNY both destroy it and are probably both better Mega picks for teams, but regular Doom has a lot going for it as a Delphox counter and being a faster option than Moltres that isn't stopped by Slowking.

 

[Holiday]

Snip

Virizion is awesome in this meta and partners really well with THE BUNNY. I could probably afford to run Lum Berry or Stone Edge since I don't find myself using Synthesis a whole lot. I love that Viri is able to switch into basically every Water in the tier and force them out.

Let me reinforce this. Virizion is a-fucking-mazing this meta. Being able to take on practically all Water types with its Swords Dance set is powerful, especially in a meta where premier checks to powerful pokemon such as Slowking, Clawitzer, Alomomola, among others. Any physical walls also get bones by SubCM set. It's such a versatile pokemon that's just honestly an amazing addition to any team.

Another note I would like to bring up is the retesting of some BL2 Mons, namely Zoroark. With the power creep this meta (Mega Bunny, MPidgeot, Virizion) I feel like Zoroark is actually pressed for competition as an offensive pokemon this meta around. Defense has been on the rise, with Gligar, LoveFish, and Registeel all over the tier. Personally, I think it should get retested. Any other takers?