ohhhh I didn't know that.
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Other Pokemon of the Week [Starmie]
- Thread starter firehusky
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No, why the heck would you not want to mega evolve your scizor just to bluff a choice set... Your opponent could easily use a damage calc and just realize that you're not banded anyways. As boltsandbombers said, light metal is better, as you will be mega evolving anyways.
Again, I would rather mega evolve and gain bulk and power, rather than fake a choice set.
Sorry for changing the subject
Something I never see mentioned that really ticks me off is the fact that nobody ever mentions a Baton Pass set
Scizor @ Scizorite / Leftovers
Ability: Light Metal
EVs: 248 HP / 236 Def / 24 Spe
Impish Nature
- Swords Dance
- Baton Pass
- Roost / Agility
- Bullet Punch
While Scizor might seem outclassed as a Baton Passer with Scolipede, it has a lot of opportunities to set up, has way fewer weaknesses and has better bulk. It doesn't have Speed Boost like Scolipede does, but it has Agility to make up for that. It also has priority I'm case of an emergency, which Scolipede lacks.
Don't get me wrong, I don't like Baton Pass at all, but hey, it's a viable set so I though is at least put it out there. Pardon the short post, I'm on my mobile again rip
Something I never see mentioned that really ticks me off is the fact that nobody ever mentions a Baton Pass set
Scizor @ Scizorite / Leftovers
Ability: Light Metal
EVs: 248 HP / 236 Def / 24 Spe
Impish Nature
- Swords Dance
- Baton Pass
- Roost / Agility
- Bullet Punch
While Scizor might seem outclassed as a Baton Passer with Scolipede, it has a lot of opportunities to set up, has way fewer weaknesses and has better bulk. It doesn't have Speed Boost like Scolipede does, but it has Agility to make up for that. It also has priority I'm case of an emergency, which Scolipede lacks.
Don't get me wrong, I don't like Baton Pass at all, but hey, it's a viable set so I though is at least put it out there. Pardon the short post, I'm on my mobile again rip
I've actually used this set before in BW (except without scizorite), and it's actually pretty decent. When you swords dance, most people expect you to go for a sweep, they'll switch in their counter, you go for the agility, and then baton pass out. Pretty fun set. Thanks for posting it :]
I love dd pass Scizor and used it quite a bit myself. I love agilipass as it lures in mag and fires so a dragon like chomp or dnite can sweep . This thing sets up with ease as Scizor can basically take any unboosted or nonfire move with its amazing bulk with Scizorite. The only reason this set is good is because it's unexpected tbh.
Here's some really old replays.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-175645893
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-175059213
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-173924270 http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/orasou-184152649
Will edit later.
Here's some really old replays.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-175645893
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-175059213
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-173924270 http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/orasou-184152649
Will edit later.
Ever since I started competitive battling, Scizor has always been one of my favorite Pokemon to use. The sheer power he has combined with his strong priority move is very appealing to me. I personally have a Mega-Scizor team on Showdown that I loved to use for XY that I have yet to adapt to ORAS.
I believe my Scizor set is as follows:
Sabre (Scizor) @ Scizorite
Adamant
Technician
248 HP/ 252 ATK/ 8 SPE
-Bullet Punch
-X-Scissor/Bug Bite/ U-turn
-Swords Dance
-Roost
The team was built around the idea of clearing the field of any Scizor counters/checks and bringing him in on something to set up an SD and sweep from there, Roosting if necessary or if I was forced to bring him in at inoppurtune moments and allowed him to take damage either from attacks or hazards. I also like having both Roost and SD on the same set because it can allow me to set up on more things than normal. I can take a little damage while setting up and heal it all and not worry about opposing priority users.
I haven't fully decided on either Bug Bite or U-turn for the second slot. I am leaning toward Bug Bite so I don't need to undo any setting up I already did.
Some things I have on the team to help support include Guts Conkeldurr with Bulk Up/ Drain Punch/ Knock Off/ Ice Punch to help absorb statuses that cripple Scizor like Burn and Para and also as a back up set up sweeper if Scizor goes down to something unexpected.
I also have a Flash Fire Chandelure that either has Assault Vest or Choice Scarf (I can't remember which...) to absorb the Fire attacks (especially Will-o-Wisp) inevitably coming Scizor's way.
Heatran is another fun thing to run with Scizor and often substitutes for Chandelure for me. Again, sucking up the fire moves and helps with general support.
I believe my Scizor set is as follows:
Sabre (Scizor) @ Scizorite
Adamant
Technician
248 HP/ 252 ATK/ 8 SPE
-Bullet Punch
-X-Scissor/Bug Bite/ U-turn
-Swords Dance
-Roost
The team was built around the idea of clearing the field of any Scizor counters/checks and bringing him in on something to set up an SD and sweep from there, Roosting if necessary or if I was forced to bring him in at inoppurtune moments and allowed him to take damage either from attacks or hazards. I also like having both Roost and SD on the same set because it can allow me to set up on more things than normal. I can take a little damage while setting up and heal it all and not worry about opposing priority users.
I haven't fully decided on either Bug Bite or U-turn for the second slot. I am leaning toward Bug Bite so I don't need to undo any setting up I already did.
Some things I have on the team to help support include Guts Conkeldurr with Bulk Up/ Drain Punch/ Knock Off/ Ice Punch to help absorb statuses that cripple Scizor like Burn and Para and also as a back up set up sweeper if Scizor goes down to something unexpected.
I also have a Flash Fire Chandelure that either has Assault Vest or Choice Scarf (I can't remember which...) to absorb the Fire attacks (especially Will-o-Wisp) inevitably coming Scizor's way.
Heatran is another fun thing to run with Scizor and often substitutes for Chandelure for me. Again, sucking up the fire moves and helps with general support.
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Seems like a pretty cool set, except I would run light metal over technician as the ability. Also, bug bite completely outclasses x scissor, due to technician. Conk seems like a pretty decent status absorber too. I would probably run heatran over chandelure, since heatran can set up rocks, while also simultaneously checking lots of stuff like HP Fire latios. Nice core!
I might have forgotten to mention that the set came from my XY Scizor, when I don't believe it could get bug bite. My showdown one always has bug bite. The note about Light Metal is interesting though. I hadnt really thought about the weight dependant moves... Ill change that on Showdown, but i dont think i have a hidden ability Scyther for in game... My showdown team also has the Heatran for precisely the reasons you listed, but I do have chandelure for in game purposes as I have yet to get a good, competitive heatean in game and Chandelure is just so much fun.
Thanks for the notes!
Base Stats: 50 HP / 85 Atk / 125 Def / 85 SAtk / 115 SDef / 20 Spe
Ability: Prankstser ---> Magic Bounce
Alright, this week's victim will be Mega Sableye(suggested by silver97)! Mega Sableye has lots of immunities and only one weakness. It has great defensive stats, but a low HP stat. Sableye is commonly found on stall teams, due to magic bounce stopping moves like taunt, stealth rocks, and status moves. Mega Sableye is also a very good calm minder, serving as a great win condition even on stall teams. However, mega sableye's speed is extremely low, which can sometimes be taken advantage of. Let's discuss!
Okay i'll start this discussion.
Mega sableye has been one of the most significant threats of this first period of oras; It basically revived alone a playstyle that was almost dead at the end of xy and now stall is one of the most powerful out there. The most used set is the CM one because it acts as a wincon, but unlike other CMers is immune to taunt (unless moldbreaker) and doesn't care about status moves without having to carry resttalk and therefore having room to inflict status itself with wow, weakening opposing physical attackers. However i would like to see if other set are worth using too, like for example something similar to normal sableye's set with recover wow foul play and knock off.
firehusky the title of the thread still says mega scizor, you should update it so people know we're discussing a new mon
Mega sableye has been one of the most significant threats of this first period of oras; It basically revived alone a playstyle that was almost dead at the end of xy and now stall is one of the most powerful out there. The most used set is the CM one because it acts as a wincon, but unlike other CMers is immune to taunt (unless moldbreaker) and doesn't care about status moves without having to carry resttalk and therefore having room to inflict status itself with wow, weakening opposing physical attackers. However i would like to see if other set are worth using too, like for example something similar to normal sableye's set with recover wow foul play and knock off.
firehusky the title of the thread still says mega scizor, you should update it so people know we're discussing a new mon
I rarely ever get to use MegaEye as a win con and when I do I really don't need to and could just keep wearing other team down slowly. Thus I like knock off as it helps you wear down clefable, sylveon, and heatran quicker
I also like the Foul Play + Knock Off set over the Calm Mind set. The Calm Mind set sets up on so many things but it still lacks the power it really needs. I play all kind of things and I hate facing this thing on basically every playstyle (although I use it myself too) On stall it is annoying to beat opposing MSableye's if you lack Clefable or Sylveon and it often ends with a pp stalling (the foul play / knock off set is not a problem) Mega Sableye made stall live again because it stops so many stallbreakers like Mew and Talonflame, leaving it with only a few stallbreakers like Mega Gardevoir, Mega Houndoom and Mega Gyarados. There are only 3 Mega Sableye I faced and these are:
Sableye @ Sablenite
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
- Calm Mind
- Recover
- Dark Pulse / Shadow Ball
- Will-O-Wisp
Sableye @ Sablenite
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
- Calm Mind
- Recover
- Snarl <- R.I.P. my CM Sableye
- Will-O-Wisp
Sableye @ Sablenite
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD or 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Bold/Calm Nature
- Knock Off
- Will-O-Wisp
- Recover
- Foul Play
In my opinion it is the most threatening mega at the moment after Mega Metagross and Mega Zard X (I think zard is really nice at the moment)
Sableye @ Sablenite
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
- Calm Mind
- Recover
- Dark Pulse / Shadow Ball
- Will-O-Wisp
Sableye @ Sablenite
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
- Calm Mind
- Recover
- Snarl <- R.I.P. my CM Sableye
- Will-O-Wisp
Sableye @ Sablenite
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD or 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Bold/Calm Nature
- Knock Off
- Will-O-Wisp
- Recover
- Foul Play
In my opinion it is the most threatening mega at the moment after Mega Metagross and Mega Zard X (I think zard is really nice at the moment)
Sableye @ Sablenite
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Will-O-Wisp
- Knock Off
- Foul Play
- Recover
There are too much fairies in the suspect ladder, is pretty hard set up with calm mind.
With this set sableye is a pretty good mixed wall able to take care about every physical statupper with foul play, knock off the item of your opponent's pokemon, recover damage and burn. So after a mixed wall, is a sort of utility pokemon because can do a lot of things. With this set can be used even in a balanced as a fight and psychic check.
Also i'm trying this spread right now: 248 HP / 52 Def / 208 SDef, Impish nature.
Scarf landorus, LO thundurus, LO gengar, LO bisharp, mega beedrill, can only 3kho this sableye with this spread.
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Will-O-Wisp
- Knock Off
- Foul Play
- Recover
There are too much fairies in the suspect ladder, is pretty hard set up with calm mind.
With this set sableye is a pretty good mixed wall able to take care about every physical statupper with foul play, knock off the item of your opponent's pokemon, recover damage and burn. So after a mixed wall, is a sort of utility pokemon because can do a lot of things. With this set can be used even in a balanced as a fight and psychic check.
Also i'm trying this spread right now: 248 HP / 52 Def / 208 SDef, Impish nature.
Scarf landorus, LO thundurus, LO gengar, LO bisharp, mega beedrill, can only 3kho this sableye with this spread.
No. It is to slow to outspeed things like Chansey and Skarmory so they can use a move before they can be taunted. Also, many moves that are taunted (stealth rock, status) won't be used at Mega Sableye anyways because of Magic Bounce so it only works against users of Soft-Boiled or Defog. Problem is that they defog away all the hazards and get taunted afterwards, so it still brings you nowhere. It only really works against set-up sweepers, but it still can set up once before getting taunted then and many stall teams has unaware to have an answer for setup.
It helps against PP stall wars against Chansey though, but it is not worth a slot.
Thx for the detailed answer :]
Agreeing with SketchUp, Taunt is generally used for shutting down opponents by out-speeding them to prevent defogging, recovering and setting up. Even though Sableye can Prankster Taunt before mega evolving, I've almost always found myself wanting to mega evolve ASAP so that I can freely switch into and wall so many things with the SpDef set. That being said, the SpDef [Knock Off/Foul Play/Recover/WoW] set is an amazing mixed wall. The amount of support it provides is seemingly unmatched.
Its ability to wall stuff makes it a common win condition.
Its ability to wall stuff makes it a common win condition.
I've found that Stall teams, themselves, are very prepared for M-sableye (and rightfully so), which makes its role as a win-con/semi-stallbreaker a little limited when playing against this archetype. As such, I've almost found a need to have one separate Stallbreaker/Wallbreaker on my stall teams to handle opposing stall teams much easier and this is a philosophy that I follow for all of my stall teams, but especially so in this M-sable meta. Otherwise, against another stall team, especially against an M-sable iteration since we can't use hazards to wear our teams down as well, both the opponent and I will be sitting there hopelessly to break through the other's team until PP runs out. For me, I don't really like sitting there for 100+ turns doing that.
So, are there any recommended stallbreakers/wallbreakers that pair well with M-sable or even stall itself? An easy one to implement on most stall teams is Heatran, but options are kind of limited since some of the best st/wall breakers are megas.
Otherwise, can someone recommend more efficient ways to beat opposing Sable stall teams with your own Sable team?
So, are there any recommended stallbreakers/wallbreakers that pair well with M-sable or even stall itself? An easy one to implement on most stall teams is Heatran, but options are kind of limited since some of the best st/wall breakers are megas.
Otherwise, can someone recommend more efficient ways to beat opposing Sable stall teams with your own Sable team?
I think you should expect everybody to have at least one answer to Mega Sableye, but a lot of stall teams have Chansey, Skarmory and Ferrothorn. This is great for your Mega Sableye, who can freely switch in on them at any point in a match. A lot of offensive teams do not give Sableye the same kind of freedom. When it comes to beating stall teams, it's probably difficult to carve out a win condition for Mega Sableye because opposing stall teams are focused on keeping everything alive and healthy. If you have a way to break stall, you can use your opponents "safest option" tactics to your advantage by making sure your Sableye never goes down. And that's why Sableye stall vs Sableye stall lasts 100+ turns lol
Taunt users Talonflame and Gliscor are great partners for Mega Sableye, and both are great at breaking stall on their own. Or you can use both because Taunt is just such a great move.
Taunt users Talonflame and Gliscor are great partners for Mega Sableye, and both are great at breaking stall on their own. Or you can use both because Taunt is just such a great move.
Clefable is kinda common on both stall and balanced, as unaware mons are generally appreciated on stall teams to help deal with set up sweepers. With no investment, clefable can easily 2HKO max hp mega sableye, while also ignoring potential stat boosts in special defense due to unaware.
0 SpA Unaware Clefable Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Sableye: 174-206 (57.2 - 67.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Clefable is also one of the few SR users (along with the rare SR mega diancie) that actually can beat mega sableye 1v1. I guess sylveon is also a decent answer, but on a stall team, I would almost always think of clef first to deal with mega sableye.
e: Sylveon doesn't get SR I think, but it still does beat mega sableye 1v1, except if you let it get up to like +6
0 SpA Unaware Clefable Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Sableye: 174-206 (57.2 - 67.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Clefable is also one of the few SR users (along with the rare SR mega diancie) that actually can beat mega sableye 1v1. I guess sylveon is also a decent answer, but on a stall team, I would almost always think of clef first to deal with mega sableye.
e: Sylveon doesn't get SR I think, but it still does beat mega sableye 1v1, except if you let it get up to like +6
Yeah Magic Bounce is an awesome ability for stall teams but there are rock setters left that can set rocks because they threaten Mega Sableye. These include Clefable, LO Mamoswine (also sash against SpD) and Landorus-I. Same basically works for stallbreakers. While stallbreakers become less viable because the Taunt is bounced back and will-o-wisp threatens them, there are still viable stallbreakers left: Mega Gardevoir [forces sableye out] Mega Houndoom [sets up on sableye] Mega Gyarados [mold breaker taunt] and Togekiss [Nasty Plot set]
I would actually like some suggestions about Mega-Sableye. With the loss of Prankster what do you all think of him? Is he better as Sableye or M-Sableye? Ive heard from some they like his regular version more
An issue I've noticed is that while sableye is used on stall teams, a lot of fairy types not only kill sableye but are actually wallbreakers themselves like diancie and gardevoir and azumarill -- meaning that not only is your mega somewhat nullified but there's also a huge anti-stall threat on the field and what're you gonna switch in? Furthermore other wallbreakers like manaphy can actually set up on sableye with no trouble at all. With this in mind a stall team built around sableye definitely needs to have some real offensive fire power and hopefully "fast" as well. For example an assault vest raikou can take some pretty serious hits and still hit back hard against those threats listed above.
He is definitely better as Mega Sableye over usual Sableye. The SpD spread with Knock Off, Foul Play, Will-O-Wisp and Recover is very difficult to take down and the fairies that threaten Sableye are often beaten by Jirachi + Amoonguss or Jirachi + Quagsire (the 3 together is a core I use so often)
I use a similar set but with Taunt over Foul Play. So I can Stop Mega Gyarados from Subing, Taunting and Dragon Dancing as well as burn something the next turn.
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