Mega Audino is usually either used in an offensive support role/RestTalk sweeper as opposed to a WishProtect defensive mon which normal Audino does better due to Regenerator. Offensive support M-Audino is usually worn down quickly to hazards because of the lack of reliable recovery. Cro-Dino is stoppped by some of the more common mons in the tier like Steelix and Garbodor.
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Resource Ask a simple question, get a simple answer: NU Edition
- Thread starter Raseri
- Start date
Not really. Those are 4 very different pokemon in terms of versatility, typing, and playstyle - trying to cover that many threats with one team slot is really hard to do.
Even if you could, you shouldn't try to cover too much with 1 slot. They are all really popular Pokemon and trying to cover them with 1 thing will screw you over when you face 2 or more of them at once because you're putting too much pressure on one Pokemon.
Probably this means that you should either fix the rest of your team, or just try to cover them offensively
Perish Song Politoed could be OK defensive answer for all of them but I'd prefer fixing the rest of the team. Unless you're a full stall, remember that you don't have to have hard counters to everything!
Probably this means that you should either fix the rest of your team, or just try to cover them offensively
Perish Song Politoed could be OK defensive answer for all of them but I'd prefer fixing the rest of the team. Unless you're a full stall, remember that you don't have to have hard counters to everything!
My team handles them but I find if I add another check for my 6th slot(open slot) it would benefit my team further.
Thanks for at least suggesting a pokemon.
Who are some of the best special wallbreakers who aren't weak to ground or fighting?
Xatu @ Leftovers/Colbur Berry
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 248 HP / 176 Def / 84 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Psyshock
- Heat Wave/maybe Dazzling Gleam or Signal Beam
- Roost
This is pretty much the standard set, and it can tear defensive teams in half with some support. The spread maximizes speed and defense while letting it outspeed Adamant Sawk.
There's also a set with like Night Shade/T-Wave/Roost/something I don't remember, though I've never used it.
Xatu @ Rocky Helmet
Xatu @ Leftovers/Colbur Berry
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 248 HP / 176 Def / 84 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Psyshock
- Heat Wave/maybe Dazzling Gleam or Signal Beam
- Roost
This is pretty much the standard set, and it can tear defensive teams in half with some support. The spread maximizes speed and defense while letting it outspeed Adamant Sawk.
There's also a set with like Night Shade/T-Wave/Roost/something I don't remember, though I've never used it.
Ability: Magic Bounce
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 248 HP / 196 Def / 64 Spe
Bold Nature
- Night Shade / Psychic
- Thunder Wave / Grass Knot
- Roost
- U-turn
Yeah Defensive Pivot is the set you are talking about. It actually doesn't shine on Defensive teams though surprisingly, but on Hyper Offense and Bulky Offense as a glue and pivot to spread status, tank hits, and switch into threatening moves while gaining momentum with a *relatively* slow U-Turn, while wearing down stuff like Hariyama and Kangaskhan.
Malamar is a big threat. Make sure you have a counter or some bug coverage to nulify it.
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gatr isnt as good as it once was, Mega-Steelix is insanely bulky / hits hard, Prinplup is a great defogger.
I don't play much either anymore, but that's what I've picked up over the past few weeks.
The best moveset for Leafeon would be this
Leafeon @ Life Orb/Leftovers
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Leaf Blade
- Swords Dance
- Knock Off
- Synthesis/Substitute
Unfortunately, the defensive set is almost entirely eclipsed in viability by Vileplume. There is little to no reason to use defensive Leafeon when Vileplume has superior switch in opportunities, offensive presence, and access to Sleep Powder.
I never said it wasn't viable, I said it was eclipsed in viability by Vileplume or "outclassed" if you'd like a nicer term for it. I understand it's usable but it strikes me as an extremely specialized mon or something that should be exclusively used in tours. I don't think he wants either of those requirements.
WEll vile
DEf:85
while Leafeon has higher defense: HP 65
DEF : 130
Hes way bulkier than Vileplume so, i dotn think hes outclased, they have different movesets and secondary typing but hey when should i use his Defensive set instead of the offensive one???
plume has HP:75
DEf:85
while Leafeon has higher defense: HP 65
DEF : 130
Hes way bulkier than Vileplume so, i dotn think hes outclased, they have different movesets and secondary typing but hey when should i use his Defensive set instead of the offensive one???
vileplume has more resistances than leafeon while leafeon has more weaknesses
Plume is immune to Toxic, has access to Sleep Powder, better special defense, access to the same utility with Aromatherapy, better overall offensive presence with Sludge Bomb, HP Fire, and even Moonblast. Whereas Leafeon's only pros over Plume are Knock and being able to beat gatr with less regard for being so high in HP.
Leafeon is also much faster, beats Samurott due to being naturally faster. Wishpassing is also Leafeon's big niche as a defensive grasser. It also doesn't get outsped and 2HKOed by offensive Steelix. It synergizes well with Hariyama for same reasons as Vileplume, and Wishpassing to Hariyama is great for reasons you can imagine. It's one of the better Wishpassers in the tier that doesn't shit up your momentum because you're using a defensive Audino set.
Defensive Leafeon does not beat Samurott, in fact it loses to it.
0 Atk Leafeon Leaf Blade vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Samurott: 240-284 (72.2 - 85.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Samurott Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Leafeon: 351-413 (105 - 123.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
The argument is about defensive Leafeon which is truly outclassed. I get that its faster then plume and has better overall stats, but it has Weaker SpcDef terribad movepool and coverage, and lacks dual stabs AND IT DOESNT HAVE ONE OF THE BEST/ANNOYING DEFENSIVE ABILITIES. Plume is better in almost every single regard, barring passing weak 65 hp wishes.
I like leafeon, dont get me wrong, but I would never ever consider using it defensively. I don't care if someone used it in SPL or whatever, I doubt that it was a game changer and one use of it doesn't make it viable. I used a scarf Dragalge once in NU open and won, does that make it viable? Obligatory '-'
0 Atk Leafeon Leaf Blade vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Samurott: 240-284 (72.2 - 85.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Samurott Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Leafeon: 351-413 (105 - 123.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
The argument is about defensive Leafeon which is truly outclassed. I get that its faster then plume and has better overall stats, but it has Weaker SpcDef terribad movepool and coverage, and lacks dual stabs AND IT DOESNT HAVE ONE OF THE BEST/ANNOYING DEFENSIVE ABILITIES. Plume is better in almost every single regard, barring passing weak 65 hp wishes.
I like leafeon, dont get me wrong, but I would never ever consider using it defensively. I don't care if someone used it in SPL or whatever, I doubt that it was a game changer and one use of it doesn't make it viable. I used a scarf Dragalge once in NU open and won, does that make it viable? Obligatory '-'
I think you guys are being confused over what outclassed and viable means ?_? If it has a notable niche despite having similar roles, it isn't outclassed. If it has a reason to be used on a team, it is viable.
Vileplume doesn't get Wish, and it has zero chance of beating Samurott. Leafeon can't OHKO it from full HP, but it brings it down to a range where otter can be easily KOed while Vileplume simply gets outsped without having a chance. Amarillo already explained how Leafeon can be a Wish passer without absolutely sucking your momentum dry; being able to pass even 30% more HP to something like Hariyama can be game-changing. Don't know why you're using abilities as a means to bash Leafeon either because it's not like Leafeon's lack of Effect Spore immediately makes it much worse.
This doesn't mean Leafeon is always better than Vileplume but this is good reason enough to use it on a serious team, hence it isn't outclassed and it's viable.
Vileplume doesn't get Wish, and it has zero chance of beating Samurott. Leafeon can't OHKO it from full HP, but it brings it down to a range where otter can be easily KOed while Vileplume simply gets outsped without having a chance. Amarillo already explained how Leafeon can be a Wish passer without absolutely sucking your momentum dry; being able to pass even 30% more HP to something like Hariyama can be game-changing. Don't know why you're using abilities as a means to bash Leafeon either because it's not like Leafeon's lack of Effect Spore immediately makes it much worse.
This doesn't mean Leafeon is always better than Vileplume but this is good reason enough to use it on a serious team, hence it isn't outclassed and it's viable.
I mean I don't really view Leafeon as a terrific WishPasser due to its meager 65 base HP, but it is still somewhat competent enough at the job that I wouldn't truly view it as bad, especially given its ability to check Gatr. That said, I will say I don't see defensive Leafeon in a good light since too many things in the meta can force it out / take advantage of it, meaning Leafeon would almost always choose to either heal itself or its teammates with the Wish. Sure it could try going the Umbreon / Chansey route by packing both Wish and a self-healing move (Synthesis), but its offensive presence would be severely diminished if it were to carry just Leaf Blade instead of Leaf Blade + Knock Off.
For straight up walling, Leafeon isn't outclassed by Vileplume, but it does face severe competition from Tangela, which has superior physical bulk and far better passive recovery in Giga Drain + Regenerator, plus it also has Knock Off; if you are worried about Knock Off from physical foes (aka Fighting-types), well then Leafeon still isn't better than Plume in that instance. I feel the only Leafeon I'd be using in this meta would be an offensive Swords Dance one, or even SD + Baton Pass.
For straight up walling, Leafeon isn't outclassed by Vileplume, but it does face severe competition from Tangela, which has superior physical bulk and far better passive recovery in Giga Drain + Regenerator, plus it also has Knock Off; if you are worried about Knock Off from physical foes (aka Fighting-types), well then Leafeon still isn't better than Plume in that instance. I feel the only Leafeon I'd be using in this meta would be an offensive Swords Dance one, or even SD + Baton Pass.
Honestly if you're going for a defensive Leafeon, you should consider Vileplume or Tangela but here's a physical wall Leafeon:
Leafeon(252 HP 252 Defense 4 Attack) @ Leftovers
Impish Nature
-Synthesis
-Aromatherapy/Toxic/Swords Dance/Wish
-Leaf Blade
-Knock Off
Knock Off is good coverage and taking away your opponent's item is always nice. IMO Wish passing from Leafeon isn't very great as it only has 65 base and Synthesis grants more reliable recovery.
Like Punchshroom mentioned, a SD set is better. I would suggest something like:
SD, Baton Pass, Sub/Synthesis and Leaf Blade.
SD, Baton Pass, Leaf Blade and Knock Off/X-Scissor.
SD, Synthesis/Substitute, Leaf Blade and Knock Off/X-Scissor.
Run max speed with Jolly nature or 224 speed Jolly for base 90s, share the other evs into attack and/or bulk. Leftovers or Life Orb for item. Maybe even Lum Berry, Salac Berry or the grass boosting item.
X-Scissor is to let you hit other grass and dark types hard, namely Malamar and Cacturne. Also hits Lilligant, Leafeon and other mono grass types harder. Knock Off is preferred but Malamar is a huge nuisance.
Leafeon(252 HP 252 Defense 4 Attack) @ Leftovers
Impish Nature
-Synthesis
-Aromatherapy/Toxic/Swords Dance/Wish
-Leaf Blade
-Knock Off
Knock Off is good coverage and taking away your opponent's item is always nice. IMO Wish passing from Leafeon isn't very great as it only has 65 base and Synthesis grants more reliable recovery.
Like Punchshroom mentioned, a SD set is better. I would suggest something like:
SD, Baton Pass, Sub/Synthesis and Leaf Blade.
SD, Baton Pass, Leaf Blade and Knock Off/X-Scissor.
SD, Synthesis/Substitute, Leaf Blade and Knock Off/X-Scissor.
Run max speed with Jolly nature or 224 speed Jolly for base 90s, share the other evs into attack and/or bulk. Leftovers or Life Orb for item. Maybe even Lum Berry, Salac Berry or the grass boosting item.
X-Scissor is to let you hit other grass and dark types hard, namely Malamar and Cacturne. Also hits Lilligant, Leafeon and other mono grass types harder. Knock Off is preferred but Malamar is a huge nuisance.
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