Official Smogon University Usage Statistics Discussion Thread, mk.2

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Hi Antar. Can I request that you include the total weighted Pokemon count (under info tag) in the chaos files? Summing the Pokemon abilities won't work because that assumes every player has a full team of 6. The way I know do this right now is borrowing data from usage TXT, which is annoying and has roundoff errors. Unless there's another way?
 
Antar, there's something with the moveset stats that has bothered me since 2010 or whatever...

Code: 
| Spreads |
| Jolly:4/252/0/0/0/252 21.407% |
| Jolly:0/252/4/0/0/252 5.973% |
| Adamant:4/252/0/0/0/252 5.933% |
| Impish:252/4/252/0/0/0 5.259% |
| Adamant:252/252/0/0/4/0 5.114% |
| Impish:252/0/240/0/8/8 3.912% |
| Other 52.402% |

Can't those trash EVs be ignored when adding up EV spread usage? It doesn't tell me much when more than half of Landorus-T's EV/Nature spreads are listed as "other".
 
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Mario With Lasers said:
Can't those trash EVs be ignored when adding up EV spread usage? It doesn't tell me much when more than half of Landorus-T's EV/Nature spreads are listed as "other".
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What do you mean by "trash EVs?" Do you mean like if someone put in 254 instead of 252? Because I already manually adjust EV spreads to discard unused EVs.
 
Antar said:
What do you mean by "trash EVs?" Do you mean like if someone put in 254 instead of 252? Because I already manually adjust EV spreads to discard unused EVs.
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I mean, where the remaining 4 EVs are dumped in the spread. I don't think there's a single pokémon that really cares about whether the EVs are in HP, Def or Sp. Def (at best, people don't put the EVs in HP so the stat isn't divisible by 4). In the example I gave, at least the first two spreads could be fused that way, and maybe the "other" spreads could be trimmed down to a number lower than 52%.
 
Mario With Lasers said:
I mean, where the remaining 4 EVs are dumped in the spread. I don't think there's a single pokémon that really cares about whether the EVs are in HP, Def or Sp. Def (at best, people don't put the EVs in HP so the stat isn't divisible by 4). In the example I gave, at least the first two spreads could be fused that way, and maybe the "other" spreads could be trimmed down to a number lower than 52%.
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First of all, there's a decent amount of theorymonning behind where the last four EVs go in a lot of cases (important for Life Orb / Leftovers numbers or for optimizing bulk), but I see what you mean. I, at one point, did work on combining similar spreads, but figuring out where to draw the line is annoying (for instance, should Hasty and Naive be combined?). The best solution is probably to change the entire way I report EV spreads and natures and do graphs that show how often each Pokemon runs:
  • Max EVs, Boosting nature
  • Max EVs, Neutral nature
  • Neutral nature, no EVs
  • Hindering nature, no EVs
and then report the two most common EV numbers (enforce, say, that the EVs cannot be within 8 points of each other..?)

This type of report would be most useful for opposing damage calcs (you see that your attack is a guaranteed KO for 252 Neutral, and that only 12% of that Pokemon run 252+, so you decide to go for it), but the flip side is that it wouldn't be useful at all for building teams (but honestly, if you're using moveset stats rather than analyses to build your teams, I think you have larger problems).

Thoughts?
 
I agree with MarioWithLasers. As to your solution, while doing graphs would definitely allow for a more complete display of common stats individually, I think it would be worse overall since there's likely no way to show more possibilities without complitcating it too much (for instance, how often does Landorus-T run 88 neutral speed? How about 168 positive?). While it would surely be nice to have alongside the spreads as listed now, I don't think it would be good as a substitution. As to drawing the line, that can be adressed later, as points can be made for both sides in some cases (he naive x hasty thing, for example, has a significant impact on damage calcs); I don't think anyone would disagree with combining two spreads that only differ in 4 Def x 4 SpDef EVs.
 
I miss my Hackmons statistics. And now since all moveset History is seemingly deleted, there's nothing left of it. I think the remaining 4 ev's ideal is crucial in some cases. I do not like it when I see 84 on all stats with hardy nature however; I've noticed it a few times before.
 
Hi Antar. In the metagame stats there is a "stallyness" graph. How is that calculated and what exactly does a measure of 1 or -1 means exactly? Also, is there some sort of stallyness calculator that uses the same formula as in the stats that we can plug our teams into? It seems pretty interesting. Thanks.
 
Pagoose said:
Hi Antar. In the metagame stats there is a "stallyness" graph. How is that calculated and what exactly does a measure of 1 or -1 means exactly? Also, is there some sort of stallyness calculator that uses the same formula as in the stats that we can plug our teams into? It seems pretty interesting. Thanks.
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It's Antar's approximation of how many turns a Pokemon needs to KO itself. A stalliness of 0 is what an "average" Pokemon would score (a 3HKO against itself). A Pokemon expected to nHKO itself has a stalliness of log2(n)-1.58

-1 stalliness = 2^((-1)+1.58) = 2^0.58 = 1.5HKO (quite offensive)
+1 stalliness = 2^(( 1)+1.58) = 2^2.58 = 6HKO (quite defensive)

More detail at http://pokemetrics.wordpress.com and source code - https://github.com/Antar1011/Smogon-Usage-Stats/blob/master/TA.py (to run it you have to set it up yourself)
 
 
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Antar are you not doing the "changes since last month" anymore or are you just skipping them for now because of the short amount of time that November's stats represent?

Also I when looking at the stats page I noticed that the OU 1500 stats are missing.
 
Yes, there's something wrong with the Hidden Power determination. I'll figure out what's going on.

As for moves not adding up to 400%--that's due to players not putting four moves on the Pokemon.
 
It seems like Basculin and Basculin-Blue-Striped are combined. They are not just a sprite difference because one ability is different between them. Is this on purpose?

Mostly relevant to the OM below PU: FU.
 
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The Immortal said:
It seems like Basculin and Basculin-Blue-Striped are combined. They are not just a sprite difference because one ability is different between them. Is this on purpose?

Mostly relevant to the OM below PU: FU.
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Yes, they're combined. Are you telling me they're tiered separately?
 
Xloudman, the hidden power glitch has now been fixed, and I'm redoing December's stats.

Antar said:
As for moves not adding up to 400%--that's due to players not putting four moves on the Pokemon.
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Yeah, no--this was due to the Hidden Power glitch. Empty moveslots appear in the stats as "Nothing."
 
I've fixed the glitches and updated the stats (finally).

Hidden Powers are showing up again, and after some staff discussion, Basculin is going to remain combined (and Pikachus are now combined as well).

Edit: note that there's some BH and Challenge Cup stats missing due to Floette-Eternal-Flower being the longest name on the planet. (done)
 
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hi, sorry if this is the wrong place to ask this, but shouldn't keldeo and keldeo-resolute be tiered separately? if we're following the precedent set in-game, there's no way for base-form keld to know secret sword as far as i'm aware (i know that's not how it's implemented on ps! but that's easy enough to change, i presume), and this is a significant enough difference to merit separating them imo.

i'm asking this on the back of the basculin case, obviously, because it's an analogous case.
 
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