Talonflame

Valmanway

Valmanway

My jimmies remain unrustled
is a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
Overview
########



+Gale Wings makes it a great revenge killer and late-game cleaner
+Has a fairly wide movepool that allows Talonflame to run several sets with varying purposes
+Immune to burns, thus making it a good switch-in to Will-O-Wisp
+Can afford to run an Adamant nature and still outrun base 110s without relying on Gale Wings
-Is 4x weak to Stealth Rock, so Rapid Spin/Defog support is mandatory
-Aside from Speed, Talonflame has low stats across the board
-Fire/Flying coverage is limited, as it's walled by most Rock-types, Heatran, and Rotom-W

Swords Dance
########
name: Swords Dance
move 1: Acrobatics
move 2: Flare Blitz
move 3: Swords Dance
move 4: Roost
ability: Gale Wings
item: None
evs: 88 HP / 252 Atk / 168 Spe
nature: Jolly

Moves
========

-Acrobatics is used to preserve Talonflame's bulk, as Brave Bird's recoil is undesirable on this set
-Flare Blitz is Talonflame's strongest move on this set and allows it to break through Ferrothorn, Mega Scizor, and Mega Metagross
-Swords Dance brings Talonflame's power to high levels, and combined with Gale Wings, Talonflame can threaten both offensive and defensive teams
-Roost is used to keep Talonflame healthy, and Gale Wings ensures that health is gained before the opponent attacks

Set Details
========

-A Jolly nature with 168 Speed EVs are to ensure that Talonflame can outrun Raikou, 252 Attack EVs maximize damage output, and 88 HP EVs are to moderately improve Talonflame's bulk
-No item is used in order to bring Acrobatics up to 110 BP, and Swords Dance and Roost make up for the lack of an item anyways. However, it's acceptable to use Sharp Beak and Brave Bird if more immediate power is desired if the extra recoil isn't an issue

Usage Tips
========

-The best opportunity to set up is when the opponent switches out, thus giving you a free turn to set up

Team Options
========

-Having a Rapid Spin/Defog user is mandatory support for a Pokemon such as Talonflame, with particularly good teammates being Mold Breaker Excadrill, who can threaten Heatran, Tyranitar, and Rotom-W nicely, as well as Latios, since it can effectively weaken physical walls for Talonflame

Stallbreaker
########
name: Stallbreaker
move 1: Brave Bird
move 2: Swords Dance
move 3: Taunt / Will-O-Wisp
move 4: Roost
ability: Gale Wings
item: Leftovers
evs: 248 HP / 252 SpD / 8 Spe
nature: Careful

Moves
========

-Brave Bird is so Talonflame isn't complete Taunt bait, and also acts as a last-ditch attack in an emergency
-Swords Dance allows Talonflame to break through Mega Sableye, a Pokemon that would otherwise be a full stop to this set
-Taunt prevents the opponent from setting up, healing, and inflicting status
-Will-O-Wisp can be used over Taunt to burn physical attackers and add residual damage as Talonflame stalls the opponent out
-Roost provides Talonflame with extra longevity and lets Talonflame stall out burned foes if running Will-O-Wisp

Set Details
========

-248 HP EVs reduce the damage taken from Stealth Rock and 252 Special Defense EVs with a Careful nature maximize Talonflame's defense against special attackers

Usage Tips
========

-Stallbreaker Talonflame is capable of beating most defensive Pokemon, only requiring support to beat regular and Mega Slowbro, Mega Charizard X, and Suicune
-Thanks to its burn immunity, Stallbreaker Talonflame is one of the few safe switch-ins to Will-O-Wisp and Lava Plume, and is a great answer to most users of those moves

Team Options
========

-Mega Heracross is capable of

Revenge Killer
########
name: Revenge Killer
move 1: Brave Bird
move 2: Flare Blitz
move 3: U-turn
move 4: Steel Wing / Tailwind
ability: Gale Wings
item: Choice Band
evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
nature: Adamant

Moves
========

-Brave Bird is Talonflame's strongest attack, and Gale Wings allows Talonflame to revenge kill most foes
-Flare Blitz acts as a secondary STAb attack that breaks through Ferrothorn, Mega Scizor and Mega Metagross
-U-turn builds up offensive momentum, taking advantage of the multiple switches that this set can force
-Steel Wing is used to OHKO Mega Diancie both before and after it Mega Evolves
-Tailwind can be used as a last-ditch effort to speed teammates up and allow them to revenge kill more easily

Set Details
========

-An Adamant nature with 252 Attack EVs makes Talonflame hit as hard as possible, and 252 Speed EVs are used to outpace Pokemon with base 110 Speed
-Choice Band grants Talonflame with as much immediate power as possible, and being locked into a move is of little concern for a revenge killer

Usage Tips
========

Team Options
========

Other Options
########

-Natural Gift + Swords Dance can be used to lure its would-be counters in, such as Tyranitar, Quagsire and Rotom-W with a Liechi Berry, and Tyranitar and Heatran with a Salac Berry, but it only works once, and requires a good deal of prediction to properly use

Checks & Counters
########

**Stealth Rock**:

**Rock-types**:

**Rotom-W**:

**Heatran**:

**Bulky Water-types**:

**Landorus-T**:
 
Last edited:
Couple of things straight away : SD should run 168 Speed to outspeed Raikou. It is also by far Talonflame's best set and should be placed in first. Also I would add a SpD Swords Dance+Taunt set since it's a better stallbreaker than Taunt+Wisp due to Sableye Stall being a thing (this set breaks Sableye more reliably than Bulk Up does).
 
The RK set should have Steel Wing and Tailwind slashed in the last slot. Steel Wing hits Mega Diance switch-ins and Tailwind can let something else go on a mini-sweep against offense if Talonflame isn't needed anymore and it somehow survives a foddering (it's not like you're going to Roost a lot anyway). Maybe mention Steel Wing on the SD set as another option?

Also can't help but laugh that we're doing this on Christmas.
 
Just an heads up, if you plan to use Natural Gift on Talonflame you may want to bump the speed to 176, this way you'll be able to outspeed scarftar and hit him with natural gift fight/grass.
 
^ acro is really good

i think that acro + no item is completely superior to bb + leftovers on bulky sets because the lack of recoil is just so useful, as it means you don't have to use roost as much and there isn't a cost/risk attached to attacking.

taunt + wow is kind of useless as a stallbreaker in a mega sableye meta imo, i think that sd + taunt/wisp is the superior set. sd + wisp + acro is a really strong option on talonflame in general imo because you can burn the likes of landorus-t, ttar, and rotom in order to wear down/cripple them and eventually get them into range of a kill. i actually like running it with the offensive spread simply because the added power to acrobatics makes it a lot easier to sweep, but it's also viable on sdef and lets it deal with mega sableye more effectively.

please don't include sharp beak on the cb set, you should use sd if you're using sharp beak as it's such a threat to offense and a good sweeper. cb should be the only item option and steel wing/tailwind should be the last slot options, steel wing being nice because it prevents you from being walled by mega diancie.

i think that cb is the worst overall set in this metagame and should be moved to the last set.
 
Mention teammates that can handle many of Talonflame's checks; mention teammates that can handle Slowbro, Landorus-T, Rotom-W, Heatran, etc. Surf / Earthquake Latios can lure in Heatran, anything with an Ice-type attack can lure in and damage Landorus-T, etc.
 
Alfalfa said:
Mention teammates that can handle many of Talonflame's checks; mention teammates that can handle Slowbro, Landorus-T, Rotom-W, Heatran, etc. Surf / Earthquake Latios can lure in Heatran, anything with an Ice-type attack can lure in and damage Landorus-T, etc.
Click to expand...
Add some sort of rapid spinner in their to like excadrill, as excadrill can handle rotom-w and tyranitar and talonflame provides a good switch in to the ground type attacks directed to excadrill. And you know, excadrill can remove rocks.
 
havokchomp123 said:
Add some sort of rapid spinner in their to like excadrill, as excadrill can handle rotom-w and tyranitar and talonflame provides a good switch in to the ground type attacks directed to excadrill. And you know, excadrill can remove rocks.
Click to expand...

I would like to clarify that Mold Breaker Excadrill can handle Rotom-W, Sand Rush variants are walled by it.
 
Sharp Beak + Brave Bird deserves at least a Set Details or Moves mention on the first set, having 30% more power on your main STAB is very important to OHKO Pokemon such as Thundurus after SR, Excadrill after two LO rounds, Scarf Landorus-T after SR, and even Raikou if you go with Adamant after two SR rounds.
 
alexwolf said:
Sharp Beak + Brave Bird deserves at least a Set Details or Moves mention on the first set, having 30% more power on your main STAB is very important to OHKO Pokemon such as Thundurus after SR, Excadrill after two LO rounds, Scarf Landorus-T after SR, and even Raikou if you go with Adamant after two SR rounds.
Click to expand...
I'll add that in Set Details.
 
sharp beak + brave bird should be the main set and the only set

you misinterpreted what i said about acro sd, the set is acro sd wisp and that deserves to be a separate set entirely
 
After QC discussion with how to fix the issues in this analysis, we've come to the conclusion that this analysis simply just isn't enough up to par for a Pokemon that is so important. This has been in the WIP stage for a long time and has issues related to quality, specifically including details that are either factually incorrect or not really relevant. For instance:
+Has a fairly wide movepool that allows Talonflame to run several sets with varying purposes
+Immune to burns, thus making it a good switch-in to Will-O-Wisp
+Can afford to run an Adamant nature and still outrun base 110s without relying on Gale Wings
Click to expand...
These details from the Overview aren't really based off Talonflame in the context of the metagame. Talonflame's sets don't really have greatly varying purposes. The only Will-O-Wisp user it can actually really check is Mew and kinda Sableye. The last point isn't a relevant point that makes Talonflame good, especially seeing as it generally either runs Jolly with Speed investment or little-to-no Speed investment at all.
-Brave Bird is so Talonflame isn't complete Taunt bait, and also acts as a last-ditch attack in an emergency
Click to expand...
Brave Bird is used as an attacking move and sweeping tool, and it is a main feature of the set.
-Will-O-Wisp can be used over Taunt to burn physical attackers and add residual damage as Talonflame stalls the opponent out
-Roost provides Talonflame with extra longevity and lets Talonflame stall out burned foes if running Will-O-Wisp
Click to expand...
These bullet points are misconstruing the purpose of Will-O-Wisp on SD Talonflame. The purpose is to cripple some common answers to it, such as Tyranitar, Landorus-T, and Hippowdon, in addition to wearing down the likes of Rotom-W and Slowbro. Especially on an SD set, Talonflame should not be stalling.

For these reasons, this analysis is being reassigned.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top