ORAS UU First Attempt at Rain Offense (Outdated)

[Cactrune]

Hello, everyone, I'm Cactrune and this is my first attempt at a rain offense team in ORAS UU. I've been playing UU for quite some time now and I've always wanted to make a team based on rain setters and rain sweepers. I've been using this team for a while on the ladder, and though I think it's pretty good so far, I know that it can be improved. Without further ado, here it is.

Tornadus @ Damp Rock
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Rain Dance
- Hurricane
- Taunt
- U-turn

Tornadus is the Pokemon that I usually lead with, and for a good reason; it sets up Rain Dance, which the team is based on. Hurricane and U-Turn are mandatory here, and the former makes Tornadus a pretty good cleaner if the other sweepers are down. Taunt is used to deter hazard-stacking teams from setting up, because hazards, primarily Sticky Web, cause problems for the team.

Swampert @ Swampertite
Ability: Damp
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Aqua Tail
- Earthquake
- Ice Punch
- Superpower

This big guy is the main attraction of the team, capable of abusing Swift Swim to its fullest capabilities and smashing huge holes in opposing teams with ease thanks to its great coverage. This set is pretty self-explanatory, as it is far and away the most effective and commonly used set that Swampert can run. Its great typing also allows it to have awesome synergy with the rest of the team.

Celebi @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Recover
- Swords Dance
- Seed Bomb
- Zen Headbutt

Celebi was on the first incarnation of this team as a bulky pivot, but it didn't really fit that role too well, so I eventually decided to use it as a bulky Swords Dance sweeper instead. This set has a number of good matchups against many of the tier's most common defensive Pokemon, including Suicune, Hippowdon, Vaporeon, and Chesnaught, most of which can't do much to this thing as it sets up. Its combination of valuable resistances and staying power makes it an asset to this team, though other SD sweepers can be used instead of it if you want to use them.

Kingdra @ Life Orb
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 80 Atk / 252 SpA / 176 Spe
Rash Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Draco Meteor
- Outrage
- Waterfall

An almost mandatory Pokemon on any rain team, Kingdra brings its mixed attacking prowess to the table as one of the most vital mons on the team. There's really not much to note here, as this is the standard LO Kingdra set, but this guy probably shouldn't be removed from the team.

Jirachi @ Damp Rock
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 16 HP / 252 Atk / 240 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Iron Head
- U-turn
- Rain Dance

Jirachi is UU's foremost glue Pokemon, able to fit into a multitude of roles with ease. Since my team is packed to the brim with fast Pokemon, I decided not to run Scarfed Jirachi (like I usually do) in favor of a set that I came up with myself: Rain Dance Jirachi, which I decided to use when I thought I needed another rain setter. This set sees Jirachi performing a support role by setting up Rain Dance and Rocks and using U-Turn to safely bring in other Pokemon. Iron Head is mandatory coverage and can really help when I need to soften up special walls. Jirachi's bulk and typing also helps it check many threats, making it a good addition to the team.

Machamp @ Assault Vest
Ability: No Guard
EVs: 172 HP / 252 Atk / 84 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dynamic Punch
- Knock Off
- Stone Edge
- Bullet Punch

Machamp is the odd man out on this team, a Pokemon that I primarily included because I needed something that could beat Dark-types like Hydreigon when I realized that I had two Psychic-types on my team. So far, Machamp has been doing decently well, and I even use him as a lead sometimes when the matchup that it has with the expected lead is better than the matchup that Jirachi or Tornadus would have. Despite its strength and usability, I feel as though it could easily be removed from the team. If you have anything to suggest, just tell me.


The Team As A Whole

Overall, I feel as though this team does its job fairly well. It uses bulky pivots to generate momentum, and powerful sweepers and wallbreakers to win the game. I still feel like it's missing something, like it's not strong enough defensively or that it's missing something in terms of offensive coverage. I'm looking forward to the response that this thread will generate, so feel free to respond to it.

 

[dodmen]

Hey what's up man, really cool team. I actually love that the entire team doesn't 100% revolve around rain. Just by looking at it though, I think that stall or even just more defensively based teams don't have too much trouble with your team; for example, a simple core of something like Blissey + Alomomola + defensive Celebi looks like it might be able to just switch around whichever of your mons is in and wear down your whole team. Heal Bell Celebi somewhat mitigates this, but its limited PP combined with the fact that nothing else on your team can actually restore HP makes it pretty easy for defensive teams to wear you down.

I think that Celebi is pretty badly out of place here. I know you said that its meant to take Grass and Electric attacks, but it's not actually beating any of the Pokemon who use them: Roserade and Shaymin wear it down or outright kill it, for example, while RestTalk Ampharos also doesn't really give a shit about it. It just seems like Celebi is way too passive of a mon to be using on a rain team, which should be constantly keeping up enormous offensive pressure. I think you could replace Celebi with any of the following Pokemon, all of which help with your matchup against stall:

• SD Kabutops: standard.Rain abuser, its priority can be extremely useful when your rain is gone.
• SD Ludicolo: great coverage with Waterfall/Seed Bomb/Ice Punch, also gets Drain Punch of you want to use that. It's particularly good for luring out and killing special walls to give Tornadus and Kingdra an easier time, since most people expect a specially attacking variant. Grass and Electric neutrality is nice at least.
• SD Qwilfish: sounds shit, but surprisingly not. Poison STAB destroys all relevant Grass-types. It also packs Explosion, so you can take out a big wall or threat and make room for Swampert to go in. Gonna edit here with a replay in a little bit.

So yeah, as you can see none of these Pokemon are really switching into Grass or Electric types, but that's not what's important on a rain team. What's important is keeping up your offensive pressure and using your different members to wear down each other's checks and counters.

As a side note, switching Celebi to just an offensive SD or NP set with STABs+Recover might also be worthwhile. It gives you the resistances and longevity that you want while also being able to actually kill those Pokemon, and also help with your matchup against defensive teams. EV spread should be a simple max Speed and max Atk/SpAtk (depending on the boosting move, of course). Life Orb is the preferred item.

As for the actual sets, they all look good to me. Since Swampert is outsped by Scarfers even under rain, you could consider running a Jolly nature with more speed invested. Aqua Tail over Waterfall would make up for the loss of power.

And I just wanted to say again, AV Machamp is a really cool idea and gives you a really good check to Hydreigon which many rain teams struggle with. I'd put Heavy Slam over Bullet Punch though, seeing as the rest of your team is fast enough with rain, and also you can destroy Fairies pretty easily. Definitely keep Machamp on the team imo. Nicely done man, hope I could help :]

 

[Cactrune]

Hey what's up man, really cool team. I actually love that the entire team doesn't 100% revolve around rain. Just by looking at it though, I think that stall or even just more defensively based teams don't have too much trouble with your team; for example, a simple core of something like Blissey + Alomomola + defensive Celebi looks like it might be able to just switch around whichever of your mons is in and wear down your whole team. Heal Bell Celebi somewhat mitigates this, but its limited PP combined with the fact that nothing else on your team can actually restore HP makes it pretty easy for defensive teams to wear you down.

I think that Celebi is pretty badly out of place here. I know you said that its meant to take Grass and Electric attacks, but it's not actually beating any of the Pokemon who use them: Roserade and Shaymin wear it down or outright kill it, for example, while RestTalk Ampharos also doesn't really give a shit about it. It just seems like Celebi is way too passive of a mon to be using on a rain team, which should be constantly keeping up enormous offensive pressure. I think you could replace Celebi with any of the following Pokemon, all of which help with your matchup against stall:

• SD Kabutops: standard.Rain abuser, its priority can be extremely useful when your rain is gone.
• SD Ludicolo: great coverage with Waterfall/Seed Bomb/Ice Punch, also gets Drain Punch of you want to use that. It's particularly good for luring out and killing special walls to give Tornadus and Kingdra an easier time, since most people expect a specially attacking variant. Grass and Electric neutrality is nice at least.
• SD Qwilfish: sounds shit, but surprisingly not. Poison STAB destroys all relevant Grass-types. It also packs Explosion, so you can take out a big wall or threat and make room for Swampert to go in. Gonna edit here with a replay in a little bit.

So yeah, as you can see none of these Pokemon are really switching into Grass or Electric types, but that's not what's important on a rain team. What's important is keeping up your offensive pressure and using your different members to wear down each other's checks and counters.

As a side note, switching Celebi to just an offensive SD or NP set with STABs+Recover might also be worthwhile. It gives you the resistances and longevity that you want while also being able to actually kill those Pokemon, and also help with your matchup against defensive teams. EV spread should be a simple max Speed and max Atk/SpAtk (depending on the boosting move, of course). Life Orb is the preferred item.

As for the actual sets, they all look good to me. Since Swampert is outsped by Scarfers even under rain, you could consider running a Jolly nature with more speed invested. Aqua Tail over Waterfall would make up for the loss of power.

And I just wanted to say again, AV Machamp is a really cool idea and gives you a really good check to Hydreigon which many rain teams struggle with. I'd put Heavy Slam over Bullet Punch though, seeing as the rest of your team is fast enough with rain, and also you can destroy Fairies pretty easily. Definitely keep Machamp on the team imo. Nicely done man, hope I could help :]

Thanks for the feedback, man, I appreciate it. Here's what I'm planning on utilizing from your analysis.

Celebi: I do agree with you that, after playing with this team for a while, defensive Celebi is practically deadweight. I do really like a lot of your ideas here, especially Qwilfish, but I think I might just spring for the SD Celebi set here, which seems extremely interesting.

Swampert: I'll try the Jolly set. Sounds cool.

Machamp: Never used Heavy Slam, so I'm looking forward to trying it.

Also, regarding my stall problem, should I try using Taunt on Tornadus?

 

[Alfonso Dragonlord]

Heavy Slam in Machamp is a great asset to kill Florges and Aromatisse, but you have them covered with Jirachi, and they take a lot of damage from Swampert too, so I think that keeping Bullet Punch is better.
Also, taunt Tornadus seems to be a nice option to your team since you can stop hazard stacking when leading with it. SR doesn't hurt too much to your team, but is nice to keep sticky web out of your side of the battlefield to mantain your sweeper's speed and not be outspeeded by scarfers in rain.