Dragalge

[Poek]

Overview
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+ Adaptability makes it pretty strong
+ Great dual STAB in dragon/poison, with poison taking care of fairies which most dragons are scared of
+ Amazing typing that allows it to check the likes of Mega Charizard Y, Keldeo and Gengar
+ Lays the ever so useful Toxic Spikes
+ Decently bulky
- Really slow
- No reliable recovery
- Common weaknesses to Ground, Dragon and Psychic

Offensive Utility
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name: Offensive Utility
move 1: Draco Meteor
move 2: Sludge Wave
move 3: Focus Blast / Hidden Power Fire
move 4: Toxic Spikes
ability: Adaptability
item: Draco Plate / Toxic Plate
evs: 200 HP / 252 SpA / 56 Spe
nature: Modest

Moves
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INFO ABOUT MOVES GOES HERE

Set Details
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EVS / ITEM / NATURE INFORMATION GOES HERE

Usage Tips
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USAGE TIPS GO HERE

Team Options
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TEAM OPTIONS GO HERE


Specially Defensive
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name: Specially Defensive
move 1: Dragon Pulse
move 2: Sludge Bomb
move 3: Scald
move 4: Toxic Spikes
ability: Adaptability
item: Black Sludge
evs: 248 HP / 8 SpA / 252 SpD
nature: Calm

Moves
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INFO ABOUT MOVES GOES HERE

Set Details
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EVS / ITEM / NATURE INFORMATION GOES HERE

Usage Tips
========

USAGE TIPS GO HERE

Team Options
========

TEAM OPTIONS GO HERE


Choice Specs
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name: Choice Specs
move 1: Draco Meteor
move 2: Sludge Wave
move 3: Hidden Power Fire
move 4: Scald / Focus Blast
ability: Adaptability
item: Choice Specs
evs: 200 HP / 252 SpA / 56 Spe
nature: Modest

Moves
========

INFO ABOUT MOVES GOES HERE

Set Details
========

EVS / ITEM / NATURE INFORMATION GOES HERE

Usage Tips
========

USAGE TIPS GO HERE

Team Options
========

TEAM OPTIONS GO HERE


Other Options
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OTHER OPTIONS GOES HERE. STUFF LIKE ALTERNATE MOVES, ALTERNATE SETS, NICHE STUFF THAT DOESN'T GET A MAIN SET MENTION


Checks & Counters
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CHECKS & COUNTERS GO HERE
NOTE THAT THIS WILL BE MORE THREATLISTY SO MENTION POKEMON / OTHER EFFECTS ONE AT A TIME

 

[Seth Vilo]

I have two small points about the Tank set.

One is that Substitute makes a great alternative over one of the STAB attacking moves. It is great to set up against something you force out, and protects you from status, Scald shenanigans, and fast attackers so you can nuke them with Sludge Wave / Dragon Pulse / Draco Meteor, fish for burns, or set up more T-Spikes. It does leave you with only Scald if a Steel or Fairy switch-ins (the latter if you only run a Dragon move), but that's what said Scald, T-Spikes, and teammates are for. It might even fit over Scald, but fishing for burns and having neutral coverage alongside one STAB makes me think that Scald is too good to lose for Sub.

Second, a mere 48 Defense EVs lets you avoid Earthquake 2HKOs from both Timid Charizard-Y and 0 Atk neutral Mega Venusaur. If you crank it up to 80 Defense EVs, that avoids the 2HKO from neutral 0 Atk Charizard-Y's EQ, making you even more reliable a counter to more CharY sets. This of course is if Rocks are off the field and accounting for Black Sludge recovery.

EDIT: Great to see a seahorse update, though. Been using this this religiously since it came out.

 

[Karxrida]

Dragon Tail should probably get a mention on the tank set. You force out Fairies so them being immune isn't an issue, plus it still does alright damage uninvested thanks to Adaptability.

 

[havokchomp123]

I think that venoskock should be put in the defensive set or at the very least in OO. If you use the combination of toxic spikes/dragon tail/venoshock together, you can shuffle in and out opponents with dragon tail to poison them and then hit them with a base 260 power poison type attack. In the last slot, protect could be a good option to stall out and recover some black sludge health, scald to ward off physical attackers and hit steel types for neutral damage, and HP fire or focus blast for coverage.

 

[Poek]

Seth Vilo While sub seems definetely cool, if you lack a dragon stab you can't touch Gengar, which is one of the main points of using Specially Defensive Dragalge in the first place. And if you lack poison stab, you can't touch fairies, which is an issue. I think it would fit best on the offensive set instead of Toxic Spikes, though Toxic Spikes are really good rn to pass up. I'll put it in OO when I get to write this up. About the def investment... idk if eq on Zard Y and Venu is common enough to modify the spread, as you wanna be as specially defensive as possible to take on Gengar.

Karxrida With Dragon Tail you lose the ability to 2HKO Gengar but I guess its good enough to be a mention in moves.

havokchomp123 Venoshock is unreliable, it isn't like Hex where any status would double the move's attacking power, and you lose Sludge Bomb, which hits SpD Talonflame and Zard Y decently hard while having a chance to poison. I haven't tried it though, so idk.

 

[havokchomp123]

Seth Vilo While sub seems definetely cool, if you lack a dragon stab you can't touch Gengar, which is one of the main points of using Specially Defensive Dragalge in the first place. And if you lack poison stab, you can't touch fairies, which is an issue. I think it would fit best on the offensive set instead of Toxic Spikes, though Toxic Spikes are really good rn to pass up. I'll put it in OO when I get to write this up. About the def investment... idk if eq on Zard Y and Venu is common enough to modify the spread, as you wanna be as specially defensive as possible to take on Gengar.

Kaxrida With Dragon Tail you lose the ability to 2HKO Gengar but I guess its good enough to be a mention in moves.

havokchomp123 Venoshock is unreliable, it isn't like Hex where any status would double the move's attacking power, and you lose Sludge Bomb, which hits SpD Talonflame and Zard Y decently hard while having a chance to poison. I haven't tried it though, so idk.

That may be true but venoshock on dragalge still hits hard thanks to adaptability. Plus ur going to have toxic spikes up anyway, so why not just give it venoshock to nuke. Plus mega zard Y and talonflame arent a problem if you have rocks up on the field. You can use dragon tail to then shuffle in and out opponents while racking up hazard damage and poisoning opponents. That also brings me up to another point, mention ferrothorn as a teammate in the defensive set, as he can set up spikes and cover for most of dragalges weaknesses. Dragalge also covers ferrothorns weaknesses and ferrothorn can use the toxic spikes in combination with protect and leech seed to stall out opponents.

 

[Politoad]

That may be true but venoshock on dragalge still hits hard thanks to adaptability. Plus ur going to have toxic spikes up anyway, so why not just give it venoshock to nuke. Plus mega zard Y and talonflame arent a problem if you have rocks up on the field. You can use dragon tail to then shuffle in and out opponents while racking up hazard damage and poisoning opponents. That also brings me up to another point, mention ferrothorn as a teammate in the defensive set, as he can set up spikes and cover for most of dragalges weaknesses. Dragalge also covers ferrothorns weaknesses and ferrothorn can use the toxic spikes in combination with protect and leech seed to stall out opponents.

Not really, it's not the case that you're always gonna set up Toxic Spikes when you sent in Dragalge. Sludge Wave seems a superior option to me as well. Venoshock could go OO / Moves, I guess

 

[Karxrida]

Seth Vilo While sub seems definetely cool, if you lack a dragon stab you can't touch Gengar, which is one of the main points of using Specially Defensive Dragalge in the first place. And if you lack poison stab, you can't touch fairies, which is an issue. I think it would fit best on the offensive set instead of Toxic Spikes, though Toxic Spikes are really good rn to pass up. I'll put it in OO when I get to write this up. About the def investment... idk if eq on Zard Y and Venu is common enough to modify the spread, as you wanna be as specially defensive as possible to take on Gengar.

Kaxrida With Dragon Tail you lose the ability to 2HKO Gengar but I guess its good enough to be a mention in moves.

havokchomp123 Venoshock is unreliable, it isn't like Hex where any status would double the move's attacking power, and you lose Sludge Bomb, which hits SpD Talonflame and Zard Y decently hard while having a chance to poison. I haven't tried it though, so idk.

0- Atk Adaptability Dragalge Dragon Tail vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gengar: 78-92 (30.1 - 35.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock (0 Attack IV)
0- Atk Adaptability Dragalge Dragon Tail vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gengar: 92-110 (35.5 - 42.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock (31 Attack IV)

As long as you run an Attack IV of 31 you can 2HKO with Rocks + 1 round of LO recoil, while an IV of 0 can do so with 2 Rock switch-ins and 1 round of Recoil.

 

[AM]

Dragon Tail will need a move mention anyways because it's good for phasing purposes on hazard stacking minded teams. Defense investment wouldn't really apply to EQ Char-Y and M-Venusaur more so for Secret Sword from Keldeo. I'll come back and look over once this is in the actual QC stage.

 

[TheEnder]

i know this is a work in progress, but i'd like to make a few short comments anyways n_n. the offensive utility set i find as the most viable one, at least in the current metagame with balanced build running around everywhere. the moveset is okay as it is, but i'd like to see black sludge slashed, and toxic plate deslashed. there are very few scenarios in which you would prefer having a boosted sludge wave > a boosted draco meteor, and having the option to nuke things such as specially defensive gliscor on the switch, in my opinion, outweighs the boost in damage toxic plate offers. black sludge, on the other hand, is just as great on the offensive as it is on the specially defensive one. having the abiltiy to pivot into clefable much easier, and even come in on things like lo gengar and thundurus is pretty huge, and it allows you to switch dragalage in much more recklessly than any other item does. regarding the ev spread, i would say 224 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 28 Spe with focus blast, and 224 HP / 252 SpA / 32 Spe with hp fire is a better option. since close to no azumarills really run no speed, and outspeeding clefable takes a whole lot of evs, dropping the speed benchmark to no speed hippowdon sounds reasonable, as it lets you contain the bulk it needs to pivot. lastly, i would also argue that hidden power fire deserves to be slashed before focus blast, but it all depends on dragalages teammates, so it is fine as it is.

 

[Poek]

TheEnder I agree with you, I was iffy about slashing toxic plate because the only thing it does its just beat Clefable after you switch on it after it cms so I guess I'll deslash that and slash in black sludge. I've also told Jukain before posting the skeleton that if dragalge should still creep no speed azu, as it runs a lot of speed nowadays but he said it was kind of mandatory.
I may be able to finish the skeleton this weekend, there were lots of exams this week ~_~

 

[Jukain]

I wouldn't creep 0 Spe Azu, no one runs that.

 

[viol and bass]

lastly, i would also argue that hidden power fire deserves to be slashed before focus blast, but it all depends on dragalages teammates, so it is fine as it is.

I'm a little confused about why you'd run HP Fire over Focus Blast. Is it just an accuracy thing? As far as I can tell, HP Fire would be better against Scizor exclusively, because since Focus Blast has exactly twice the power, it hits Ferrothorn just as hard. But there are very good reasons to run Focus Blast over HP Fire, such as Heatran, Bisharp, and Magnezone. Basically, unless they're quad-weak, HP fire hits steels only a tiny bit harder than Draco Meteor, while Focus Blast hits significantly harder against a range of steel-types. So I say keep the slashes as they are.

 

[Jaroda]

I recommend a specially defensive spread to look like this.

Dragalge@Black Sludge
Adaptability
Calm 248 HP / 156 SpA / 104 SpD
- Substitute
- Sludge Wave
- Scald
- Dragon Tail

The SpA allows you to OHKO Mega Gardevoir with SR 100% of the time, which you can take advantage of behind a Sub. Hyper Voice can't kill you through a sub unless you're quite low. Skarmory is a natural partner for this set because of the fantastic defensive syngergy. Skarmory is meant to stack hazards, and Dragalge is meant to annoy behind a sub and phaze with Dragon Tail for passive damage, and burn with Scald. Toxic Spikes is a waste really.

252 SpA Life Orb Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 248 HP / 100+ SpD Dragalge: 121-142 (36.3 - 42.6%) -- 94.7% chance to 3HKO after Black Sludge recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Thundurus Hidden Power Ice vs. 248 HP / 100+ SpD Dragalge: 117-140 (35.1 - 42%) -- 85.9% chance to 3HKO after Black Sludge recovery
252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Fire Blast vs. 248 HP / 100+ SpD Dragalge in Sun: 110-130 (33 - 39%) -- 12.7% chance to 3HKO after Black Sludge recovery
252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Dragon Pulse vs. 248 HP / 100+ SpD Dragalge: 152-180 (45.6 - 54%) -- 3.9% chance to 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Dragalge: 113-133 (33.9 - 39.9%) -- 35.2% chance to 3HKO after Black Sludge recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Icy Wind vs. 248 HP / 100+ SpD Dragalge: 126-150 (37.8 - 45%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Black Sludge recovery
0 SpA Heatran Earth Power vs. 248 HP / 100+ SpD Dragalge: 114-136 (34.2 - 40.8%) -- 54.1% chance to 3HKO after Black Sludge recovery
252+ Atk Mega Heracross Pin Missile (5 hits) vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Dragalge: 165-195 (49.5 - 58.5%) -- approx. 58.2% chance to 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery (Sludge Wave 2HKO if on switch,needs Earthquake to OHKO)
+2 44+ Atk Technician Mega Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Dragalge: 228-268 (68.4 - 80.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery (Scald is great here and Dragon Tail)
252+ SpA Choice Specs Magnezone Flash Cannon vs. 248 HP / 100+ SpD Dragalge: 151-178 (45.3 - 53.4%) -- 1.2% chance to 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
+2 252+ Atk Technician Breloom Rock Tomb vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Dragalge: 235-277 (70.5 - 83.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Raikou Hidden Power Ice vs. 248 HP / 100+ SpD Dragalge: 126-150 (37.8 - 45%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Black Sludge recovery

Those are some calcs to show its beefiness. As for offensive sets, I like 132 Speed EVs with a neutral nature to outrun 0 speed Clefable. It's really handy to nuke it with Sludge Wave first turn.

EDIT: Also, since this is relevant now
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Serperior Dragon Pulse vs. 248 HP / 104+ SpD Dragalge: 234-278 (70.2 - 83.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery
156 SpA Adaptability Dragalge Sludge Wave vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Serperior: 324-384 (111.3 - 131.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
good to know

 

[Hootie]

I recommend a specially defensive spread to look like this.

Dragalge@Black Sludge
Adaptability
Calm 248 HP / 156 SpA / 104 SpD
- Substitute
- Sludge Wave
- Scald
- Dragon Tail

The SpA allows you to OHKO Mega Gardevoir with SR 100% of the time, which you can take advantage of behind a Sub. Hyper Voice can't kill you through a sub unless you're quite low. Skarmory is a natural partner for this set because of the fantastic defensive syngergy. Skarmory is meant to stack hazards, and Dragalge is meant to annoy behind a sub and phaze with Dragon Tail for passive damage, and burn with Scald. Toxic Spikes is a waste really.

252 SpA Life Orb Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 248 HP / 100+ SpD Dragalge: 121-142 (36.3 - 42.6%) -- 94.7% chance to 3HKO after Black Sludge recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Thundurus Hidden Power Ice vs. 248 HP / 100+ SpD Dragalge: 117-140 (35.1 - 42%) -- 85.9% chance to 3HKO after Black Sludge recovery
252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Fire Blast vs. 248 HP / 100+ SpD Dragalge in Sun: 110-130 (33 - 39%) -- 12.7% chance to 3HKO after Black Sludge recovery
252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Dragon Pulse vs. 248 HP / 100+ SpD Dragalge: 152-180 (45.6 - 54%) -- 3.9% chance to 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Dragalge: 113-133 (33.9 - 39.9%) -- 35.2% chance to 3HKO after Black Sludge recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Icy Wind vs. 248 HP / 100+ SpD Dragalge: 126-150 (37.8 - 45%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Black Sludge recovery
0 SpA Heatran Earth Power vs. 248 HP / 100+ SpD Dragalge: 114-136 (34.2 - 40.8%) -- 54.1% chance to 3HKO after Black Sludge recovery
252+ Atk Mega Heracross Pin Missile (5 hits) vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Dragalge: 165-195 (49.5 - 58.5%) -- approx. 58.2% chance to 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery (Sludge Wave 2HKO if on switch,needs Earthquake to OHKO)
+2 44+ Atk Technician Mega Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Dragalge: 228-268 (68.4 - 80.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery (Scald is great here and Dragon Tail)
252+ SpA Choice Specs Magnezone Flash Cannon vs. 248 HP / 100+ SpD Dragalge: 151-178 (45.3 - 53.4%) -- 1.2% chance to 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
+2 252+ Atk Technician Breloom Rock Tomb vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Dragalge: 235-277 (70.5 - 83.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Raikou Hidden Power Ice vs. 248 HP / 100+ SpD Dragalge: 126-150 (37.8 - 45%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Black Sludge recovery

Those are some calcs to show its beefiness. As for offensive sets, I like 132 Speed EVs with a neutral nature to outrun 0 speed Clefable. It's really handy to nuke it with Sludge Wave first turn.

EDIT: Also, since this is relevant now
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Serperior Dragon Pulse vs. 248 HP / 104+ SpD Dragalge: 234-278 (70.2 - 83.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery
156 SpA Adaptability Dragalge Sludge Wave vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Serperior: 324-384 (111.3 - 131.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
good to know

Sub seems like mediocre choice on a mon with black sludge as its only means of recovery and idk what it's really supposed to do outside of waste 25% of its HP. Toxic Spikes are very good to use against balance rn and sacrificing them for sub is a waste. Also the SpA investment seems unnecessary because it needs as much special bulk as it can get or else it's pressured even more by what it's supposed to counter/check. Being able to OHKO Gardy after rocks isn't all that important when Dragalge should gtfo and switch to teammate that can take it on. One more thing to point out is that dragon pulse is important to 2HKO LO Gengar after round of recoil.