Inheritance [Prime Council Elected]

Aerodactyl @ Aerodactylite
Ability: Truant
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Aerial Ace
- Rock Slide
- Power-Up Punch
- Sucker Punch

Inherits from Slaking. Gets Slaking's moveset, but loses Truant upon Mega Evolving.

On another note, why is there still a Keldeo set in the Examples on the first page?
 
Mr Spaz said:
Aerodactyl @ Aerodactylite
Ability: Truant
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Aerial Ace
- Rock Slide
- Power-Up Punch
- Sucker Punch

Inherits from Slaking. Gets Slaking's moveset, but loses Truant upon Mega Evolving.

On another note, why is there still a Keldeo set in the Examples on the first page?
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better set:

-Aerial Ace
-Bulk Up
-Sucker Punch
-Drain Punch
 
The last 6-7 posts have been absolute shitposts so I'll try to re-rail the thread lmao.

Mr Spaz said:
Aerodactyl @ Aerodactylite
Ability: Truant
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Aerial Ace
- Rock Slide
- Power-Up Punch
- Sucker Punch

Inherits from Slaking. Gets Slaking's moveset, but loses Truant upon Mega Evolving.

On another note, why is there still a Keldeo set in the Examples on the first page?
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I'd like to point out there's an endless list of good inheritors that get this exact combination of moves without truant (Druddigon, Mew, Shiftry, Darkrai, Kangaskhan, Nidoqueen, and most notably, Kecleon). I also feel like your moveset is a little suboptimal (Power Up Punch?), with each of the inheritors I listed having advantages and disadvantages for a more useful one.

And for the bit about the Keldeo example, it's just an example set and isn't really hurting anything. If people read they'll clearly see that Keldeo is banned so they'll know its an example.

Another set I've been testing with, while I'm here:

Virizion @ Leftovers
Ability: Contrary
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Superpower
- Knock Off
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

This is a simple adaptation of Malamar's NU RestTalk set. I chose Virizion as it has the highest Special Defense of any Fighting-Type, making it hardest to take down by special attacking means (theoretically). Obviously it needs some supprts (something to beat birdspam, namely) but it's done me very well :]

I'll try to dig up some replays
 
motherlove said:
Slaking doesn't get drain punch.
Also if you're planning on using slaking just to get the feeling of using slaking without truant, at least make use of the sucker punch + slack off combo wich slaking is the only one to have.
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Recovery + Sucker Punch is fairly common, actually. I mean, yeah, Slaking is the only one that gets that particular recovery move, but it's hardly unique.
 
wait. are people seriously using head smash archeops? i mean sure it has power...on one move...that like, every team has 2 things to tank one easily...id rather just run mixed protean and just dismantle everything not named "storm drain diance" then have one strong move that barely threatens stall at this point.(or it shouldn't considering gale wings checks also check all rock headers). really, protean and gale wings should be the only sets archeops should run, as otherwise, its just not nearly as effective. heck, even running mixed rock head could be good, so you can surf/fire blast those pesky resists (aggron gets both iirc). seriously, archeops' niche in this meta, is that it hits exceptionally hard physically, and those that are capable of walling it, don't appreciate its spc attack (112 isn't even close to bad). someone seriously test it for me lol.

but yeah, my point still stands. physically mixed protean>>>rock head.
 
Lcass4919 said:
wait. are people seriously using head smash archeops? i mean sure it has power...on one move...that like, every team has 2 things to tank one easily...id rather just run mixed protean and just dismantle everything not named "storm drain diance" then have one strong move that barely threatens stall at this point.(or it shouldn't considering gale wings checks also check all rock headers). really, protean and gale wings should be the only sets archeops should run, as otherwise, its just not nearly as effective. heck, even running mixed rock head could be good, so you can surf/fire blast those pesky resists (aggron gets both iirc). seriously, archeops' niche in this meta, is that it hits exceptionally hard physically, and those that are capable of walling it, don't appreciate its spc attack (112 isn't even close to bad). someone seriously test it for me lol.

but yeah, my point still stands. physically mixed protean>>>rock head.
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nobody plays rock head first, and my history using rock head has shown the lack of ability to handle it. Gale wings checks actually are beaten by rock head, which packs aqua tail, notably. Stuff like rhyperior fall to aqua tail, whereas nobody will switch in a suicune on archeops anyways so you can get a free kill or two. The effectiveness isn't the thing, the surprise factor is, and that makes the RH version as effective as the mixed set in practice.
 
Medicham @ Medichamite
Ability: Steadfast/Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Zen Headbutt
- Close Combat
- Shadow Sneak/Stone Edge/Other Coverage
- Swords Dance/Coverage

Inherits from Gallade. With the choice of ability, you could switch in on a predicted Fake Out/Dark type attack and get +1 Spe/Atk prior to Mega Evolving. Gallade also gives Medicham an arguably more reliable Fighting STAB in Close Combat and Swords Dance for boosting. You still get a priority move, though now it's Shadow Sneak rather than Bullet Punch.
 
Mr Spaz said:
Medicham @ Medichamite
Ability: Steadfast/Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Zen Headbutt
- Close Combat
- Shadow Sneak/Stone Edge/Other Coverage
- Swords Dance/Coverage

Inherits from Gallade. With the choice of ability, you could switch in on a predicted Fake Out/Dark type attack and get +1 Spe/Atk prior to Mega Evolving. Gallade also gives Medicham an arguably more reliable Fighting STAB in Close Combat and Swords Dance for boosting. You still get a priority move, though now it's Shadow Sneak rather than Bullet Punch.
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I'm pretty sure if you switch on fakeout you're not going to flinch and so the boost won't work.
Also, what dark type moves can medicham switch on ? Exept a really weak knock off
 
Mareep Sweep said:
Nope, it activates even if you switch in on it.
Click to expand...
...i dont think thats the case considering it boosts when "flinching happens" rather then "when a flinching move is used" lol. and if it is, gamefreak seriously needs to use their brains before coding. lol.
 
Mr Spaz said:
Medicham @ Medichamite
Ability: Steadfast/Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Zen Headbutt
- Close Combat
- ExtremeSpeed
- Swords Dance/Coverage

Inherits from Gallade. With the choice of ability, you could switch in on a predicted Fake Out/Dark type attack and get +1 Spe/Atk prior to Mega Evolving. Gallade also gives Medicham an arguably more reliable Fighting STAB in Close Combat and Swords Dance for boosting. You still get a priority move, though now it's Shadow Sneak rather than Bullet Punch.
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Use Lucario for inheriting lmao
 
Lcass4919 said:
...i dont think thats the case considering it boosts when "flinching happens" rather then "when a flinching move is used" lol. and if it is, gamefreak seriously needs to use their brains before coding. lol.
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Just tested it out and it doesnt anymore, idk if it was a glitch or what but i remember playing UU with lucario and switching in on Ambipoms fake out and getting a +1 speed boost, heres the link for the test: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/customgame-215540905
 
Adrian Marin has been added to the council! Congrats.

He has been chosen for his insightful posts around the thread, voicing his opinions on various threats. As well as willingness to look from multiple angles and compare them. This quite impressed us and he has also shown to be a good battler in this Other Meta!

The council is now complete: Adrian Marin, AnybodyAgrees, yoman5, Lcass4919 and finally me, Snaquaza
We'll probably not go up from five as five is a good number to not get ties, but still be big enough for discussion while not being chaotic. However if a user becomes inactive or steps down, we'll replace him!

We'll be voting on quickbans soon. These will only be the Pokemon announced in the thread a while ago. We hope to ban the over-powering Pokemon, donors and abilities soon!
 
yoman5 said:
However darkrai has a solid physical movepool that includes sucker punch and knock off, and has swords dance as well. Dark void swords dance is a potent combo, and sucker punch beats gale wings sets. I've been using weavile for this, and its pretty potent as it also wears down walls with bad dreams and forces a lot of switches.
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Oh shoot I forgot dark void was a thing
 
Anyway..
Archeops: 5 Ban
Landorus T: 3 No Ban, 2 Ban
Chansey: 3 No Ban, 2 Ban
Blazikenite: 4 Ban, 1 Abstain
Inheriting from Sableye: 3 No Ban, 2 Ban

Archeops and Blazikenite are now banned.
Landorus T, Chansey and Inheriting from Sableye (Non-Mega) are still legal. Notice that Inheriting from Sableye and Chansey are probably still legal because the council was divided on how to solve the problem of Sableye Chansey, so the votes were divided. We're not going to suspect ban it. Please discuss on the best solution and we'll vote separately on those two later. First on if either has to be banned and then which.

Finally, we're now suspecting Chatter, like many other OMs, feel free to discuss that too.

Chatter is a hugely uncompetitive move, having a decent output, while only giving the opponent 50% chance to counteract, which can be abused. An example of a great abuser is Pidgeot-Mega. It gets Boomburst, Chatter, Nasty Plot and Sing, U-Turn or Heat Wave, turning it in a monster quickly. There are more good candidates, but in general it allows the user to win situations it shouldn't be able to win and lets him sweep with the help of hax at times.
 
Snaquaza said:
Finally, we're now suspecting Chatter, like many other OMs, feel free to discuss that too.

Chatter is a hugely uncompetitive move, having a decent output, while only giving the opponent 50% chance to counteract, which can be abused. An example of a great abuser is Pidgeot-Mega. It gets Boomburst, Chatter, Nasty Plot and Sing, U-Turn or Heat Wave, turning it in a monster quickly. There are more good candidates, but in general it allows the user to win situations it shouldn't be able to win and lets him sweep with the help of hax at times.
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Chatter (even though I haven't tested with/played against it yet outside of my Boomburst spam team) doesn't appear to be that bad. Pidgeot-Mega seems good with it, but everyone else who can't abuse Boomburst and/or doesn't mega-evolve just falls short. You're stuck with 3 terrible abilities (Big Pecks, Tangled Feet, and Keen Eye) as your options. In Balanced Hackmons, anyone can run chatter (Rayqquaza) with virtually 0 cost, but here it's not the case. You're also gifted with not the best coverage (Boomburst, Chatter, Heat Wave, and a Hidden Power of your choice), meaning things like Flash Fire steels (especially the omnipresent Doublade) can and will deal with you. Yes, you get Nasty Plot, which is definitely a boon, but stuff like Chansey can come in and copy that, turning the strat against you.

If push comes to shove and you want to deal with Chatter reliably, there are some Soundproof users to inherit from, such as Exploud, which also gets Boomburst as well as much better coverage, and Bouffalant, which gets SD, Edgequake, and still more Physical coverage. You could even inherit from da mimez if you want to, as it actually has a good physical movepool (as well as Baton Pass, Healing Wish, and a better special movepool than Chatot). Shield Dust is terrible, don't run Shield Dust. Additionally, Chansey is still a thing, and as we're all aware Chansey is the special wall of choice for everyone on the face of the earth. If you wanted to be sort of niche you could run Own Tempo, but it's probably not as good as Soundproof unless you inherit from Smeargle.

Overall, as it stands now, I haven't really seen evidence that Chatter is that broken. I don't have enough of an opinion on this to give a truly final result as of yet, but it doesn't seem broken now.
 
Pikachuun said:
Chatter (even though I haven't tested with/played against it yet outside of my Boomburst spam team) doesn't appear to be that bad. Pidgeot-Mega seems good with it, but everyone else who can't abuse Boomburst and/or doesn't mega-evolve just falls short. You're stuck with 3 terrible abilities (Big Pecks, Tangled Feet, and Keen Eye) as your options. In Balanced Hackmons, anyone can run chatter (Rayqquaza) with virtually 0 cost, but here it's not the case. You're also gifted with not the best coverage (Boomburst, Chatter, Heat Wave, and a Hidden Power of your choice), meaning things like Flash Fire steels (especially the omnipresent Doublade) can and will deal with you. Yes, you get Nasty Plot, which is definitely a boon, but stuff like Chansey can come in and copy that, turning the strat against you.

If push comes to shove and you want to deal with Chatter reliably, there are some Soundproof users to inherit from, such as Exploud, which also gets Boomburst as well as much better coverage, and Bouffalant, which gets SD, Edgequake, and still more Physical coverage. You could even inherit from da mimez if you want to, as it actually has a good physical movepool (as well as Baton Pass, Healing Wish, and a better special movepool than Chatot). Shield Dust is terrible, don't run Shield Dust. Additionally, Chansey is still a thing, and as we're all aware Chansey is the special wall of choice for everyone on the face of the earth. If you wanted to be sort of niche you could run Own Tempo, but it's probably not as good as Soundproof unless you inherit from Smeargle.

Overall, as it stands now, I haven't really seen evidence that Chatter is that broken. I don't have enough of an opinion on this to give a truly final result as of yet, but it doesn't seem broken now.
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The main issue with it is not "brokenness," but that it is uncompetitive. Like swagger it forces far more luck into a game than necessary. Nothing inheriting from chatot *needs* chatter as a main stab, the entire point of that move is to induce confusion and cause 50/50s that are out of both players hands. Banning chatter does not affect the viability of chatot in this meta, nor does it affect the viability of inheriting from chatot in this meta (as nasty plot boomburst is already a strong selling point). Therefore I see no reason to not ban chatter.
 
Considering the sheer surprise factor and strength of this meta has without access to the most powerful flying types to properly abuse it and the ever lasting chansey presence, while chatter might be uncompetitive, it really has very little oomph and impact in this meta to try use more "seriously".
If you inherit from chatot, you are inheriting for the chatter. Swellow, exploud, noivern, all give way better inherit options if you want the boomburst.
Nasty plot sounds tempting, but you give up on so so much coverage its not even funny.

If you inherit for chatter in this meta, you're just making a good special attacker an unreliable one that will most likely annoy the foes doublade a little bit.
Only mon I see chatter being broken in this meta is mega pidgeot cause it can abuse it with sing and go for really easy +6 with the combination of confusion AND sleep, but thats about it, and even then, they have so little coverage, to truly milk it they would have to mono attack with chatter so they can get sub or roost, and you should pretty much notice the problems with that already.

Even if its uncompetitive, its only a problem once it becomes an actual problem.
 
CactusCacti said:
Considering the sheer surprise factor and strength of this meta has without access to the most powerful flying types to properly abuse it and the ever lasting chansey presence, while chatter might be uncompetitive, it really has very little oomph and impact in this meta to try use more "seriously".
If you inherit from chatot, you are inheriting for the chatter. Swellow, exploud, noivern, all give way better inherit options if you want the boomburst.
Nasty plot sounds tempting, but you give up on so so much coverage its not even funny.

If you inherit for chatter in this meta, you're just making a good special attacker an unreliable one that will most likely annoy the foes doublade a little bit.
Only mon I see chatter being broken in this meta is mega pidgeot cause it can abuse it with sing and go for really easy +6 with the combination of confusion AND sleep, but thats about it, and even then, they have so little coverage, to truly milk it they would have to mono attack with chatter so they can get sub or roost, and you should pretty much notice the problems with that already.

Even if its uncompetitive, its only a problem once it becomes an actual problem.
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to be honest, i actually agree with this trail of thought. chatter in inheritance is nothing like chatter in bh, and allthough all boomburst users are capable of using it for free setup turns, the fact that priority is so common in this meta, only further hinders its viability. chatot forces the inheritee to have a very limited-albeit powerful movepool, but also limits what it can do heavily. pidgeot might be threatening, but its not broken. it doesnt have priority...it doesn't have wide distribution or coverage, it just has 1 or 2 decent abusers, one of which is fast and basically becomes "faster and stronger chatot at turn 2", the other would prefer coverage regardless. as much as chatter is a complete bitch move in most metas, its mostly because of the way the meta shapes around chatter, and this meta doesnt really have that.

something i do want to bring up, is that if chatter pidgeot becomes a problem, id say suspecting it would be a smarter choice then suspecting chatter itself, since the only reason it would be good, is due to ITSELF, rather then chatter carrying it to decency. chatter might help carry it, but it would help no more then sing, or boomburst, or nasty plot. unlike AAA, or stabmons, which chatter literally was carrying teams left and right to victory.

what makes chatter good isn't the move itself, its the abilities it can use to HELP it gain that ridiculous status.(gale wings, serene grace for stabmons, and gale wings for aaa).

or at least in my opinion this is how i feel.
 
Lucarionite hasn't been unbanned yet on aqua.

also I saw somewhere that move illegalities are legal is that true(ie. aura sphere+body slam from raikou)
 
DinaIsha said:
PH Hippowdon with Defog, here I come!
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stealing that :3

EDIT: (so this isn't double post)
I personally don't think chatter should be banned. Sure it's uncompetitive and causes 50/50s and stuff, but like other people mentioned it just isn't that strong when compared to BH and STABmons. Inheriting from Chatot is not that great because it's movepool is meh and its abilities are a waste of time really. I guess nasty plot + chatterburst is a good selling point for setup sweepers, but unaware, priority, and Doublade do exist and are fairly common.

I have actually tested chatter on various Pokemon such as Mega Pidgeot, Mega Charizard Y, and even Mega Audino. All of them performed reasonably well, but they wee not broken or ban-worthy for that matter. (If you were wondering about the sets: Mega Pidgeot abusing no guard sing to aid in setup or taking out Pokemon, Mega Charizard Y abuses STAB chatter and nasty plot to fire off high-powered heat waves, and Mega Audino is a bulky setup attacker with reliable recovery)
 
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