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Battle Spot Singles Viability Rankings!
- Thread starter Feliburn
- Start date
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I nominate heatran for at least A because it walls so much. I really have a lot of trouble with it. It does well against fairy types, both charizard forms, steel types, and is offensive capable of doing a lot too.
Mega Gallade for B+
Mega Gallade is really good in this format, being able to take on many of the top threats, having a HUGE movepool, and can run many different sets, like all-out attacker, Bulk Up sweeper, and SD sweeper. On top of that, it has a great 110 speed tier and 165 ATTACK WHAT IS THAT. He even has good bulk even without investment, so even IF your outsped you can often take a hit and retaliate back HARD. Although, with Talonflame, Aegislash, and Mega Gengar in no short supply, Mega Gallade isn't perfect. Mega Salamence can also use Gallade as setup fodder, as long as its not carrying Ice Punch.
Mega Gallade is really good in this format, being able to take on many of the top threats, having a HUGE movepool, and can run many different sets, like all-out attacker, Bulk Up sweeper, and SD sweeper. On top of that, it has a great 110 speed tier and 165 ATTACK WHAT IS THAT. He even has good bulk even without investment, so even IF your outsped you can often take a hit and retaliate back HARD. Although, with Talonflame, Aegislash, and Mega Gengar in no short supply, Mega Gallade isn't perfect. Mega Salamence can also use Gallade as setup fodder, as long as its not carrying Ice Punch.
I was getting tired of using the old one. Thanks for making this.
(Yeah, I know I'm pretty late).
EDIT: Which Pokémon need to be ranked?
(Yeah, I know I'm pretty late).
EDIT: Which Pokémon need to be ranked?
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Anything listed is up for discussion, and anything not listed is free to be nominated!
Yes, but what I meant to ask is which ones need to be nominated?
Anything that isn't on the list and is (in your oppinion) viable in the format...
The I would like to nominate Beedrill to C+. It's got great Attack and Speed, and can sweep given the right support, but it needs to OHKO or risk getting OHKOed itself, Priority kills it, Talonflame erases it from existence, and it has trouble getting past Aegislash, even with Drill Run.
This is my first nomination, am I doing it right?
This is my first nomination, am I doing it right?
I see that you are. Nice job in also giving an explanation. n.n
My thoughts: I'm nominating Mega Pidgeot to C. It has a very nice base 121 Speed along with a powerful base 135 Special Attack with access to a few coverage moves such as Heat Wave in checking some Steel- and Ice-types. Hidden Power Ground gives it nice coverage against Fire-, Rock-, and Steel-types, most notably Heatran. Mega Pidgeot also knows the move Hurricane giving it STAB and a guaranteed hit with the support from No Guard. I have to say, I been fiddling with it last night and found that Bulky Mega Pidgeot works pretty well against physical attackers cause it knows the move Feather Dance. Unfortunately, I'm not ranking it any higher than that because of its ability, No Guard. Despite the benefits the ability has given Mega Pidgeot, it also gave it a lot of drawbacks. It's now opened to Stone Edge, OHKO moves, and any other attacking or non attacking moves that has an accuracy less than 100%. If only it was able to use Work Up, I would give it a possible win condition against physical attackers in conjunction with Feather Dance and its Speed.
My thoughts: Nominating Latias for Rank B- because her brother Latios outclasses it due to power and it's kind of hard to stall because the metagame is pretty much fast pace. Unlike Latios, Latias has a wide access to a support movepool such as Healing Wish, healing a teammate that has taken serious damage when she is no longer needed in the battle. This, coupled with Defog support and her bulk, are the very few niches she has over Latios. Guess you can say it can act as a decent Life Orb/Calm Mind user to some extent. The main issue I have with Latias is that, she's not much as an offensive attacker like Latios is and is often outsped by many Choice Scarf users such as Garchomp, Landorus-T, etc. Also, there's too many Knock Off users as well.
My thoughts: Cobalion was sort of entertaining because of the support moves it has such as Taunt, preventing other mons from using inflicting status moves, setting up, using entry hazards, etc. It acts as a check/counter to "most" Fairy-types, Rock-types, Steel-types, and Dark-types. I find its ability Justified to be useful as well on predicted moves like Hydreigon's Dark Pulse, which is a decent niche. It can act as a Choice Scarf user outspeeding many threats. Due to its Speed, Cobalion is able to set up Substitute, protecting itself from status moves and allows it to set up Swords Dance or Calm Mind. This I found throws a lot of players off because many expect a Life Orb set. The main issue I have with it is there's many Fire- and Fighting-types lurking in the metagame which puts a major stop to Cobalion.
My thoughts: Togekiss has excellent bulk and well-rounded stats. This is further coupled by its unique Flying / Fairy typing. Togekiss acts a deadly Serene Grace user abusing Thunder Wave along with Air Slash, creating a paraflinch hax which I find very annoying. I find it even more annoying that Choice Scarf Togekiss is used to outspeed many threats, getting them with the flinch hax from Air Slash. It also has a bunch of support moves and can act as a cleric due to Heal Bell, and can recover its HP with Roost. It also has nice coverage moves such as Aura Sphere and Fire Blast, which I find as a surprised Choice Scarf or Choice Specs set. Futhermore, its typing grants it immunity to Dragon-type attacks along with 4x resistance against common Fighting-type moves.
My thoughts: I forgot how useful this thing is in the metagame. Despite the mediocre base 85 Speed, Suicune is actually very bulky. Allowing it to take plenty of physical and special attacks from the foes. Scald can help burn its foe, hindering its attack making it more difficult to take down. It's able to set up with Calm Mind granting it the ability to sweep. It sorta acts as a win condition. For the physical attacks it has to deal with, it often carries Rocky Helmet to get off passive damage along with breaking Focus Sash users. Suicune also acts as a Mega Salamence check as well. The main problem I have with it is that it doesn't have a form of reliable recovery often had to be forced into running a Rest as part of its moveslot or RestTalk. Not to mention, can be Taunted.
My thoughts: Magnezone is very useful because of its ability Magnet Pull, which allows it to trap and check/counter many Steel-types. It usually runs Specs and OHKOs Ferrothorn with Hidden Power Fire. It's quite beneficial because it makes the opponent have minimal options since they can't switch out, forcing the foe to attack it or find a way to play around it. Magnezone also can check many Fairy-types, especially Pokemon such as Clefable. Also Choice Scarf can be a surprise to many people with medicore speed cause Magnezone would be able to outspeed them. Main issue, its weakness is open to three of the most common types in Battle Spot.
I'll try out Rhyperior and Cloyster later on.
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Really sorry about the delay, thanks for being patient!
Code:
Mega Beedrill: Unranked ----> C rank
Cobalion: Unranked ----> C+ rank
Mega Pidgeot: Unranked ----> C rank
Latias: Unranked ----> B- rank
Togekiss: Unranked ----> B- rank
Suicune: Unranked ----> B+ rank
Magnezone: Unranked ----> B- rank
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IMO B- for Suicune is far too low given how commonly it appears on many top 10 Pokemon's teammate stats (#5 for Kanga and Gengar, the #2 and #3 Pokemon in usage respectively. There are more examples). As one of the few bulky Waters in this metagame (Rotom-W, Azumarill, Slowbro and Gyarados being the only other notable ones), Suicune is perhaps the most well rounded. Rotom-W and Azumarill are both reliant on resistances due to their statistically poor bulk, Slowbro is Mega Gengar bait and Aegislash bait while bulky gyarados suffers from being weak to SR and having the least offensive presence out of all). It possesses strong bulk, sweeping potential, and even utility thanks to it being able to use Roar. Suicune carries some stallbreaking potential and can handle known Toxic users such as Heatran and Chansey due to its ability to fit Rest in its moveslot, granted to its ability to threaten a sweep with Calm Mind. Out of the above, only Slowbro can do the same and it can't ChestoRest in Mega form. Charge Beam/Rest, Drum/Rest, and DD/Rest are not really viable replacements. Like Gyarados, Suicune can phaze, which can be augmented by Sleep Talk. Unlike Gyarados, Suicune can combine that phazing ability with Calm Mind so nothing can setup alongside it. Also part of Suicune's bulk is not tied to Intimidate - Gyarados could phaze one attacker and face another strong physical attacker and won't be shielded by Intimidate. Oh and of course Scald is a way better move than Waterfall (don't even think about using Scald Gyarados). The one last thing I want to point out is that playing against Suicune can be unclear - with high physical bulk (and overall bulk for that matter) and Scald for burns, combined with Calm Mind and Rest and very few weaknesses, Suicune can seem unbreakable times. It's also perfectly capable of baiting strong Special Attackers with Mirror Coat. It's not invincible, of course, and can be taken down by forcing it to Rest twice (if Chesto), or by using Leech Seed to really make its life difficult.
I'm pretty sure that came out a bit unorganized but tl;dr: Suicune is a well rounded bulky water - solid physical wall with either offensive or phazing presence with few weaknesses and sometimes not the most obvious way to handle it. Recommending at least B+
I'm pretty sure that came out a bit unorganized but tl;dr: Suicune is a well rounded bulky water - solid physical wall with either offensive or phazing presence with few weaknesses and sometimes not the most obvious way to handle it. Recommending at least B+
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I would like to nominate Beedrill to drop to C. The problem with Beedrill is that it is weak to most mega evolutions; Jolly Kangaskhan’s Sucker Punch has a 62.5% to OHKO it, Manectric can live a Drill Run after Intimidate and OHKO it with Overheat, Blaziken OHKOs it, Mega Lopunny lives a Poison Jab and OHKOs with Return, Offensive Y-Zard has a 75% chance of living an adamant Poison Jab, Offensive X-Zard lives a Drill Run and OHKOs with Dragon Claw, Mega Gengar lives a Knock Off and 2HKO’s with Shadow Ball (Drill Run OHKOs but results in mind games), Salamence sets up on it, and offensive Gyarados can OHKO with Waterfall without needing to mega evolve. Also, it is weak to many common pokemon, such as the aforementioned Aegislash and Talonflame, and also Landorus (especially scarfed) and Garchomp, the most used pokemon on battle spot. Therefore having Beedrill on your team may result in you having to enter many battles without a mega, putting you at a disadvantage, unless you have two megas on your team. All is not so bad for Beedrill, though, as it can also score some OHKO’s against common pokemon like T-Tar, Greninja, and most fairies (although banded Azumarill has a chance to OHKO with Aqua Jet), and U-Turn makes it harder to counter. I am tentative to recommend Beedrill for anywhere below C; mainly, I think Mega Pidgeot is at least as useful as Mega Beedrill, so it bothers me a little to see Beedrill ranked above it.
I also noticed when I played one that my defensive p2 had a chance to OHKO it, which probably shouldn't have surprised me too much but it can't OHKO most mons that haven't set up or something.
0- Atk Porygon2 Foul Play vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Beedrill: 132-156 (94.2 - 111.4%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
Does anyone have thoughts on the pokemon I mentioned? I'd love to see the opinion of someone more skilled :P
i'm not going to go into super detail but i will give some thoughts on those mons. Sylveon is not bad. It had great Special Attack, and Special Defense. The problem with Sylveon is that it doesn't match up well with the rest of the meta game and is too slow. It loses to top tier threats such as Lando, Aegislash, Mawile, Kang, Lucario the list goes on and on. It does have its used but more times that not is more trouble than its worth. Dragonites good and theirs no other way to say it. Multiscale really sets it apart from Mega Salamence, however I would almost always take MegaMence over D-Nite any day. I will do Valcarona later.
Yeah, I did use sylveon a few times and it was kinda weird cause sometimes i could just sweep hard with it and other times it was just useless. I used the specs set myself though. Thanks for typing this up, been loving dragonite on my team because it checks a lot of the other dragons that are really common itself since it can tank some of their hits, but I don't want to nominate anything cause I'm still in the scrub leagues for now. I'd be interested to see more reasoning on why mega salamence is considered better though. (Not saying it's bad at all, just curious)
Gonna bring up this guy as usual.
Blastoise is a criminally underused threat in general. It has fantastic type coverage, power, and bulk, making it capable of checking common threats such as Talonflame, Aegislash, Ferrothorn, Loppuny, Gengar, Most Dragons, Slowbro, Metagross, Landorus, Heatran, Lati@s, etc. Many pokemon can't take it one 1v1 and thus are forced to switch out, and when it comes to Blastoise NOTHING likes switching in on something that hits so incredibly hard and may even burn you thanks to Scald. From experience, it tends to secure KOs incredibly often and can often lead very safely.
I'd rank it as a B- honestly. It suffers from a lack of reliable recovery, but having a powerful wall breaker that checks many common threats is simply fantastic.
Blastoise is a criminally underused threat in general. It has fantastic type coverage, power, and bulk, making it capable of checking common threats such as Talonflame, Aegislash, Ferrothorn, Loppuny, Gengar, Most Dragons, Slowbro, Metagross, Landorus, Heatran, Lati@s, etc. Many pokemon can't take it one 1v1 and thus are forced to switch out, and when it comes to Blastoise NOTHING likes switching in on something that hits so incredibly hard and may even burn you thanks to Scald. From experience, it tends to secure KOs incredibly often and can often lead very safely.
I'd rank it as a B- honestly. It suffers from a lack of reliable recovery, but having a powerful wall breaker that checks many common threats is simply fantastic.
Somehow I feel like a poke that's S rank in OU right now should be ranked here, right?
Landorus-I for A- rank.
Landorus-I seems fairly underused for how much of the tier it absolutely wrecks. Usually 4 attacks with Sheer Force + LO is the way to go, but you can easily run Rock Polish or Calm Mind if a set-up sweeper suits your team better. Four great moves that get the Sheer Force and LO boost also give Lando-I great coverage in earth power, sludge wave, psychic, and focus blast. Not only that, but Lando-I has access grass knot to those bulky waters and grounds or any HP type that your team needs to cover (usually ice). Or, he could go mixed with great moves like knock off, superpower, stone edge, EQ, and U-Turn. It's also remarkably easy to get the hit in with a great speed tier, just outspeeding all the base 100s and below. Weak to scarfers, strong priority like Aqua Jet from Azumarill or Ice Shard from anyone, and a few choice super-fast pokes like Greninja, Lando-I isn't without flaws, but the combination of speed, power, versatility, and coverage that Lando has earns him a solid place in A-.
Landorus-I for A- rank.
Landorus-I seems fairly underused for how much of the tier it absolutely wrecks. Usually 4 attacks with Sheer Force + LO is the way to go, but you can easily run Rock Polish or Calm Mind if a set-up sweeper suits your team better. Four great moves that get the Sheer Force and LO boost also give Lando-I great coverage in earth power, sludge wave, psychic, and focus blast. Not only that, but Lando-I has access grass knot to those bulky waters and grounds or any HP type that your team needs to cover (usually ice). Or, he could go mixed with great moves like knock off, superpower, stone edge, EQ, and U-Turn. It's also remarkably easy to get the hit in with a great speed tier, just outspeeding all the base 100s and below. Weak to scarfers, strong priority like Aqua Jet from Azumarill or Ice Shard from anyone, and a few choice super-fast pokes like Greninja, Lando-I isn't without flaws, but the combination of speed, power, versatility, and coverage that Lando has earns him a solid place in A-.
Sheer Force isn't available in ORAS because the hidden ability hasn't been released in Gen 6. So a lot of Lando's power and viability dropped significantly in ORAS. Not to say it's a bad poke without it but I think it's a considerably lower ranking, considering most of your argument is based around the Sheer Force set.Somehow I feel like a poke that's S rank in OU right now should be ranked here, right?
Landorus-I for A- rank.
Landorus-I seems fairly underused for how much of the tier it absolutely wrecks. Usually 4 attacks with Sheer Force + LO is the way to go, but you can easily run Rock Polish or Calm Mind if a set-up sweeper suits your team better. Four great moves that get the Sheer Force and LO boost also give Lando-I great coverage in earth power, sludge wave, psychic, and focus blast. Not only that, but Lando-I has access grass knot to those bulky waters and grounds or any HP type that your team needs to cover (usually ice). Or, he could go mixed with great moves like knock off, superpower, stone edge, EQ, and U-Turn. It's also remarkably easy to get the hit in with a great speed tier, just outspeeding all the base 100s and below. Weak to scarfers, strong priority like Aqua Jet from Azumarill or Ice Shard from anyone, and a few choice super-fast pokes like Greninja, Lando-I isn't without flaws, but the combination of speed, power, versatility, and coverage that Lando has earns him a solid place in A-.
Oh, I had no idea. I've been using it in the ladder and PS hasn't yelled at me so I just assumed it was out.
Yeah, I don't think PS has updated anything yet in regards to what is and isn't legal
I'm normally not a viability ranking kind of guy, but I'm sorta wondering if Mega Salamence should be knocked down a few pegs (maybe to A or A-)
To be honest, the 3DS ladder has been REALLY hostile to Mega Salamence: Most teams have multiple checks to it, so much so that its usage has actually fallen out of the top 12 for a while on battle spot. It seems to me like the higher ranked players Ive seen tend to go with Mega Charizard X over Mega Salamence, mostly because its harder to take down with Ice moves from defensive Pokemon, isn't forced to use Facade to deal with burn, etc.
I still think Mega Salamence is a very dangerous Pokemon for sure, but I don't think its made as much of an impact as we expected. What do you guys think?
To be honest, the 3DS ladder has been REALLY hostile to Mega Salamence: Most teams have multiple checks to it, so much so that its usage has actually fallen out of the top 12 for a while on battle spot. It seems to me like the higher ranked players Ive seen tend to go with Mega Charizard X over Mega Salamence, mostly because its harder to take down with Ice moves from defensive Pokemon, isn't forced to use Facade to deal with burn, etc.
I still think Mega Salamence is a very dangerous Pokemon for sure, but I don't think its made as much of an impact as we expected. What do you guys think?
I'm not a high ranked player or anything but honestly I feel like with porygon2 being in the top 10 and (as far as I know) generally able to wall it and OHKO back most of the time that it's not as safe a bet as its ranking would indicate, and given that p2 can switch into and deal with mega salamence a lot of the time (if it hasn't set up, of course) I think it can be a bigger liability in those cases. I feel like the charizards are probably about as good because it's often hard to tell which one they have in the first place beforehand, and even if you do know not many things can switch into a charizard y for example, tank it, and knock it out (at least that I can think of). I'm sure there's things that can, but I feel like mega salamence is much easier to deal with personally, but again I don't really have a lot of credibility so take my post with a grain of salt.
Would probably hold off moving Mence down. I think something with that high defensive and offensive potential could probably do more than Dragon Dancing and suiciding to Double Edge recoil. As pointed out in the New Best thing, Sub/Toxic/Roost Salamence makes a lot of its checks cry and can still deal a lot of damage even without investment thanks to the sheer power of its flying STAB. Probably worth looking into.
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