I agree with this; but I honestly think it should go to B instead of B- having read other opinions.IMOC+ --> B-
Slowking deserves a slight raise based on the fact that the AV set is a good check to a lot of common threats ATM, including all of the S rank. Slowking counters all Keldeos, all non Thunderpunch Mega Metagross, Slowking counters all non-Knock Off Lando I, and all special Mega Altarias. Slowking is very close to a true Mega Metagross counter as Tpunch isnt very common. It also checks a lot of common mons like Latis, Heatran, and Gliscor as well as beating othes like Thundy and Gengar 1v1. In addition, to check all these mons, Slowking doesnt even have to run close to max spdef investment, so it is not passive at all, and has a ton of coverage moves to fit the needs of your team. Some of these include Scald, Fire Blast, Power Gem, Psychic, Psyshock, Ice Beam, Grass Knot, Focus Blast, Shadow Ball, and Dragon Tail. But unfortunately, being a psychic type with average physical bulk means it is susceptible to Pursuit trapping, which is what holds it back from being better than B- rank. Here are some calcs.
Defensive:
252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Metagross Meteor Mash vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Slowking: 128-151 (32.5 - 38.4%) -- 98.2% chance to 3HKO
4 SpA Tough Claws Mega Metagross Grass Knot (80 BP) vs. 248 HP / 140 SpD Assault Vest Slowking: 88-104 (22.3 - 26.4%) -- 10.1% chance to 4HKO
252+ SpA Pixilate Mega Altaria Hyper Voice vs. 248 HP / 140 SpD Assault Vest Slowking: 102-120 (25.9 - 30.5%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Solar Beam vs. 248 HP / 140 SpD Assault Vest Slowking: 166-196 (42.2 - 49.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Thundurus Thunderbolt vs. 248 HP / 140 SpD Assault Vest Slowking: 156-186 (39.6 - 47.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Pixilate Sylveon Hyper Voice vs. 248 HP / 140 SpD Assault Vest Slowking: 153-180 (38.9 - 45.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ SpA Pixilate Mega Gardevoir Hyper Voice vs. 248 HP / 140 SpD Assault Vest Slowking: 136-162 (34.6 - 41.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Latios Draco Meteor vs. 248 HP / 140 SpD Assault Vest Slowking: 152-179 (38.6 - 45.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Exploud Boomburst vs. 248 HP / 140 SpD Assault Vest Slowking: 160-190 (40.7 - 48.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Mega Manectric Thunderbolt vs. 248 HP / 140 SpD Assault Vest Slowking: 164-194 (41.7 - 49.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ SpA Mega Venusaur Giga Drain vs. 248 HP / 140 SpD Assault Vest Slowking: 140-168 (35.6 - 42.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Magnezone Thunderbolt vs. 248 HP / 140 SpD Assault Vest Slowking: 162-192 (41.2 - 48.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ SpA Mega Alakazam Shadow Ball vs. 248 HP / 140 SpD Assault Vest Slowking: 130-154 (33 - 39.1%) -- 99.8% chance to 3HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Kingdra Draco Meteor vs. 248 HP / 140 SpD Assault Vest Slowking: 153-180 (38.9 - 45.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Offensive:
120+ SpA Slowking Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Mega Metagross: 202-238 (67.1 - 79%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
120+ SpA Slowking Ice Beam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Altaria: 154-182 (52.7 - 62.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
120+ SpA Slowking Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Bisharp: 260-308 (95.9 - 113.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
120+ SpA Slowking Power Gem vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Charizard Y: 252-300 (84.8 - 101%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
120+ SpA Slowking Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Thundurus: 192-228 (64.2 - 76.2%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
120+ SpA Slowking Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 168 SpD Ferrothorn: 300-356 (85.2 - 101.1%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
120+ SpA Slowking Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Latios: 146-174 (48.8 - 58.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
120+ SpA Slowking Psychic vs. 232 HP / 4 SpD Mega Venusaur: 204-242 (56.8 - 67.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
-
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Other ORAS OU Viability Ranking Thread V2 - Check Post #2500 PG. 100
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Completely agree, this thing is a monster at taking special hits. But, small nitpick. While AV does check Megagross, I think Earthquake does a fair amount.IMOC+ --> B-
Slowking deserves a slight raise based on the fact that the AV set is a good check to a lot of common threats ATM, including all of the S rank. Slowking counters all Keldeos, all non Thunderpunch Mega Metagross, Slowking counters all non-Knock Off Lando I, and all special Mega Altarias. Slowking is very close to a true Mega Metagross counter as Tpunch isnt very common. It also checks a lot of common mons like Latis, Heatran, and Gliscor as well as beating othes like Thundy and Gengar 1v1. In addition, to check all these mons, Slowking doesnt even have to run close to max spdef investment, so it is not passive at all, and has a ton of coverage moves to fit the needs of your team. Some of these include Scald, Fire Blast, Power Gem, Psychic, Psyshock, Ice Beam, Grass Knot, Focus Blast, Shadow Ball, and Dragon Tail. But unfortunately, being a psychic type with average physical bulk means it is susceptible to Pursuit trapping, which is what holds it back from being better than B- rank. Here are some calcs.
Defensive:
252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Metagross Meteor Mash vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Slowking: 128-151 (32.5 - 38.4%) -- 98.2% chance to 3HKO
4 SpA Tough Claws Mega Metagross Grass Knot (80 BP) vs. 248 HP / 140 SpD Assault Vest Slowking: 88-104 (22.3 - 26.4%) -- 10.1% chance to 4HKO
252+ SpA Pixilate Mega Altaria Hyper Voice vs. 248 HP / 140 SpD Assault Vest Slowking: 102-120 (25.9 - 30.5%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Solar Beam vs. 248 HP / 140 SpD Assault Vest Slowking: 166-196 (42.2 - 49.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Thundurus Thunderbolt vs. 248 HP / 140 SpD Assault Vest Slowking: 156-186 (39.6 - 47.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Pixilate Sylveon Hyper Voice vs. 248 HP / 140 SpD Assault Vest Slowking: 153-180 (38.9 - 45.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ SpA Pixilate Mega Gardevoir Hyper Voice vs. 248 HP / 140 SpD Assault Vest Slowking: 136-162 (34.6 - 41.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Latios Draco Meteor vs. 248 HP / 140 SpD Assault Vest Slowking: 152-179 (38.6 - 45.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Exploud Boomburst vs. 248 HP / 140 SpD Assault Vest Slowking: 160-190 (40.7 - 48.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Mega Manectric Thunderbolt vs. 248 HP / 140 SpD Assault Vest Slowking: 164-194 (41.7 - 49.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ SpA Mega Venusaur Giga Drain vs. 248 HP / 140 SpD Assault Vest Slowking: 140-168 (35.6 - 42.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Magnezone Thunderbolt vs. 248 HP / 140 SpD Assault Vest Slowking: 162-192 (41.2 - 48.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ SpA Mega Alakazam Shadow Ball vs. 248 HP / 140 SpD Assault Vest Slowking: 130-154 (33 - 39.1%) -- 99.8% chance to 3HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Kingdra Draco Meteor vs. 248 HP / 140 SpD Assault Vest Slowking: 153-180 (38.9 - 45.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Offensive:
120+ SpA Slowking Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Mega Metagross: 202-238 (67.1 - 79%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
120+ SpA Slowking Ice Beam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Altaria: 154-182 (52.7 - 62.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
120+ SpA Slowking Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Bisharp: 260-308 (95.9 - 113.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
120+ SpA Slowking Power Gem vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Charizard Y: 252-300 (84.8 - 101%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
120+ SpA Slowking Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Thundurus: 192-228 (64.2 - 76.2%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
120+ SpA Slowking Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 168 SpD Ferrothorn: 300-356 (85.2 - 101.1%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
120+ SpA Slowking Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Latios: 146-174 (48.8 - 58.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
120+ SpA Slowking Psychic vs. 232 HP / 4 SpD Mega Venusaur: 204-242 (56.8 - 67.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Mega Metagross Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Slowking: 142-168 (36.1 - 42.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Wow, yes. This thing is a hard stop to Megagross. I think it should be B however, as it does have a great niche in countering non TPunch Megagross, which is rare to begin with; at least in my opinion checking a prime threat in OU that is extremely common and was suspected is a huge plus. Although, being weak to Knock Off isn't very good, but it could just require team support to alleviate this.
Although we musn't forget about the lord Float Stone Slowbro, takes about 20% from Grass Knot and takes Thunder Punches like a champ.
0 SpA Tough Claws Mega Metagross Petal Dance vs. 252 HP / 24 SpD Slowbro: 94-112 (23.8 - 28.4%) -- 95.2% chance to 4HKO Petal Dance is converted to 40 power since no Float Stone on calculator.
252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Metagross Thunder Punch vs. 252 HP / 232+ Def Slowbro: 162-192 (41.1 - 48.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
So we have a good check right here.
Slowking I could definitely see moving into B ranks. In the direction the Meta-game's heading, a lot of important physical attackers can be checked decently on the basis of Slowking's typing despite overall lesser bulk, and a lot of the more powerful presences are specially oriented (Landorus-I, Mega Diancie, Keldeo, Zard-Y, LO Gengar). Slowbro I've found in practice sometimes has the problem of having to wait out the opponent, walling them but banking on the Scald burn to avoid losing momentum on the switch attempt. Slowking is better able to make use of his coverage to hit the Special Attackers he's checking, and Scald's burn chance goes further for him since the burn drop contributes to his lesser bulk, whereas Slowbro walls things better, but does not wall more things necessarily since he's already physically inclined.
And then of course there's the benefits shared with Slowbro, those being the good resistances and Regenerator. Slowking's ability to threaten the mons he checks means he might get more mileage out of Regenerator: I've found that Slowbro doesn't always threaten out what he walls, so he has to use Slack Off to keep himself healthy while either fishing for a burn or waiting for the game of switch-chicken to end, so Regenerator, while helpful, doesn't get him as much mileage as it would seem.
And then of course there's the benefits shared with Slowbro, those being the good resistances and Regenerator. Slowking's ability to threaten the mons he checks means he might get more mileage out of Regenerator: I've found that Slowbro doesn't always threaten out what he walls, so he has to use Slack Off to keep himself healthy while either fishing for a burn or waiting for the game of switch-chicken to end, so Regenerator, while helpful, doesn't get him as much mileage as it would seem.
AV slowking also has so much sp.def that is serves as a one time check, or more than one time thanks to regenerator lol, to mega sceptile and serperior as it can retaliate with a ice beam and do great damage
252 SpA Mega Sceptile Leaf Storm vs. 248 HP / 96 SpD Assault Vest Slowking: 260-308 (66.1 - 78.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252 SpA Serperior Leaf Storm vs. 248 HP / 96 SpD Assault Vest Slowking: 332-392 (84.4 - 99.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Mega Sceptile Leaf Storm vs. 248 HP / 96 SpD Assault Vest Slowking: 260-308 (66.1 - 78.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252 SpA Serperior Leaf Storm vs. 248 HP / 96 SpD Assault Vest Slowking: 332-392 (84.4 - 99.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
The problem here is, that you have to revenge kill, and that can be done by the aid of a Talonflame instead of sacrificing your Slowking, and if it's been used allmatch, it will be weakened despite regenerator. If it IS at full health, it can be sacrificed. Also, Life Orb is a thing on Serp, resulting in a strong chance to OHKO AV Slowking at +2.
Edit:
+2 252+ SpA Life Orb Serperior Leaf Storm vs. 248 HP / 96 SpD Assault Vest Slowking: 471-556 (119.8 - 141.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Guranteed OHKO, so it's a shaky check at best.
Edit 2: That was Modest, my bad.
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Serperior Leaf Storm vs. 248 HP / 96 SpD Assault Vest Slowking: 432-510 (109.9 - 129.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
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No bro making an opponent be at -2 in sp def is not the same as being you at +2, hence why is better to use Swords Dance or Nasty Plot instead of Tail Whip and its family.
That 40% is kinda important because those are the only times that you will achieve a similar effect(not the SAME) since you know mons can switch, not that saying is easy to do but it is a passive effect, all the other 60% times Shaymin could get hard pressed, and that is if the mon cannot outrun you.
I just pointed Knock Off because you were talking about options, not that Serperior always uses it.
That argument about Latios and Latias can be trapped by a partner, can be applied to Serperior too if we are using teammates as an argument, the point is that Shaymin carries almost all the Serperior problems and more.
Of course superior bulk is a nice thing, but if I was going for that I would use Celebi for that, or Ferro, or M-Vena(tough is a mega), of course they have similar problems , but outclass Shaymin at the role he wants to use.
They can scout,baton pass, or support with hazards, and have more options than Shaymin.
So in the end, for breaking walls, or for supporting there are mons that outclass Shaymin in general.
It is not at the level of wanting something like Pachirisu or a Caterpie to be ranked, but still I don't see Shaymin doing anything than another mon could not do.
I would like to point out that the Lati@s suffer on switch in to let Serp get to +2 and unless it's Scarf Latios, which is kinda rare, it won't outspeed and will die to a +2 Dragon Pulse after the Leaf Storm damage.
Edit:
252 SpA Life Orb Serperior Leaf Storm vs. 72 HP / 0 SpD Latias: 77-90 (24.1 - 28.2%) -- 94.2% chance to 4HKO
Then it gets to +2...
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Serperior Dragon Pulse vs. 72 HP / 0 SpD Latias: 268-317 (84 - 99.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Same applies for Latios, 'cept for less bulk.
Well tbf neither Celebi nor Serperior has access to Tailwind unlike Shaymin, which is another selling point if we're speaking on its support traits. You can't really speak on the outclassed argument without taking into consideration the pros and cons by solely focusing on one aspect over the other. Blissey is considered outclassed by Chansey but doesn't change the fact it's a better Lando-I check in the long run. M-Medicham is considered outclassed by M-Gallade but has much more immediate wall-breaking capabilities. Yeah being outclassed is something to be looked at it but it has to be to a point where it's 100% outclassed overall. From using it I don't think this actually applies to Shaymin in regards to the current convo but I just wanted to point this out as far as that topic goes.
If we're talking about slowking moving up, I would like to point out that it counters 2 of the pokemon in S rank (landorus-I, and keldeo).
+1 252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs. 248 HP / 96 SpD Assault Vest Slowking: 192-227 (48.8 - 57.7%) -- 95.7% chance to 2HKO
164+ SpA Slowking Scald vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Landorus: 270-318 (84.6 - 99.6%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252 SpA Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Slowking: 124-147 (31.5 - 37.4%) -- 86.8% chance to 3HKO
164+ SpA Slowking Psyshock vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Keldeo: 242-288 (74.9 - 89.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs. 248 HP / 96 SpD Assault Vest Slowking: 192-227 (48.8 - 57.7%) -- 95.7% chance to 2HKO
164+ SpA Slowking Scald vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Landorus: 270-318 (84.6 - 99.6%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252 SpA Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Slowking: 124-147 (31.5 - 37.4%) -- 86.8% chance to 3HKO
164+ SpA Slowking Psyshock vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Keldeo: 242-288 (74.9 - 89.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
I just went through the B ranks and have posted some that I think should move, I'll post my reasoning for them soon.
Edited in reasoning, but it's a mess
Breloom - Up to A-
welp, just broke my hide tags. Holy shit I really can't get them right for some reason
Edited in reasoning, but it's a mess
Breloom is just really good right now, this thing is such a threat with a fast Spore and hits really hard with Technician boosted Bullet Seeds and Mach Punches. It can function as a very effective revenge killer and can even set up with Swords Dance, I find it's pretty underrated, but it's good.
Mew - up to A-
I really think Mew should move back up into A- just because of the unpredictability of it and the multiple roles it can fill
Amoonguss - Drop to B-
It's so passive and it's just simply gotten worse with this meta and this has been brought up a lot
Gothitelle - Rise to B+
I'm probably overrating Gothitelle, but I think it should rise. Shadow Tag has arguably gotten better since Skarmory and Ferrothorn have started running Shed Shell less often and it's still a good Stallbreaker that can be a pain in the ass for anybody and its just so good for punishing misplays as it can easily take advantage of weaker pokemon.
Scizor - Up to B+
I'm only basing this on Choice Band Scizor, but I just love it. Having such a powerful priority move just puts so much pressure on Fairies, especially top threats like Mega Altaria or Mega Diancie / Gardevoir. It's great on VoltTurn aswell because U-turn just takes a massive chunk out of anything that doesn't resist it and it has coverage options for crippling pokemon (Knock Off) and nailing Heatran (Superpower)
Serperior - Up to B+
Again, I'm probably overhyping this, but Leaf Storm just makes it such a powerful threat that can just sweep slower teams and it has great options like Glare or Knock Off for completely screwing over its would-be counters
Victini - Up to B+
I made a post on this not too long ago, but I still believe it should rise
Weavile - Up to B+
Anti meta as hell, makes for an amazing revenge killer against Landorus, Gliscor, Garchomp and plenty of other pokemon. It can nail things like Bisharp with Low Kick or opt for Poison Jab for Clefable and Azumarill
Houndoom (Mega) - Up to B
Again, really anti-meta. Can destroy Sableye Stall teams and check a bunch of pokemon, while being a solid check for Mega Metagross, which is easily the best pokemon in OU right now
Magneton -Ok, maybe I defended this thing too much, but I really don't think it should go as far down as D rank though, C+ or C seems fine for it right now though
I really think Mew should move back up into A- just because of the unpredictability of it and the multiple roles it can fill
It's so passive and it's just simply gotten worse with this meta and this has been brought up a lot
I'm probably overrating Gothitelle, but I think it should rise. Shadow Tag has arguably gotten better since Skarmory and Ferrothorn have started running Shed Shell less often and it's still a good Stallbreaker that can be a pain in the ass for anybody and its just so good for punishing misplays as it can easily take advantage of weaker pokemon.
I'm only basing this on Choice Band Scizor, but I just love it. Having such a powerful priority move just puts so much pressure on Fairies, especially top threats like Mega Altaria or Mega Diancie / Gardevoir. It's great on VoltTurn aswell because U-turn just takes a massive chunk out of anything that doesn't resist it and it has coverage options for crippling pokemon (Knock Off) and nailing Heatran (Superpower)
Again, I'm probably overhyping this, but Leaf Storm just makes it such a powerful threat that can just sweep slower teams and it has great options like Glare or Knock Off for completely screwing over its would-be counters
I made a post on this not too long ago, but I still believe it should rise
Anti meta as hell, makes for an amazing revenge killer against Landorus, Gliscor, Garchomp and plenty of other pokemon. It can nail things like Bisharp with Low Kick or opt for Poison Jab for Clefable and Azumarill
Again, really anti-meta. Can destroy Sableye Stall teams and check a bunch of pokemon, while being a solid check for Mega Metagross, which is easily the best pokemon in OU right now
welp, just broke my hide tags. Holy shit I really can't get them right for some reason
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Unranked ---> D
I would like to nominate Qwilfish to D rank for quite a few reasons.
First of all, Qwilfish makes an excellent spike setter. Spikes is the main reason to use Qwilfish. Qwilfish as a hazard setter seems to be outclassed by other pokemon, such as Ferrothorn and Skarmory. However, do to its good water/poison typing, a great ability in intimidate, and it's movepool, Qwilfish does have a few advantages over its fellow hazard setters.
It's niche is to set up spikes. The move spikes is mandatory. Pain Split also allows it to recover health. Unlike Skarmory and Chesnaught, Qwilfish can provide thunder wave support. The last moveslot can be filled in my several options. Taunt can allow Qwilfish to beat Ferrothorn one on one, if you are able to predict the switch, you can taunt a defog user coming in after you set up a layer of spikes. Haze allows Qwilfish to deal with setup sweepers, such as Feraligtyr, with ease. Waterfall and Scald can prevent Qwilfish from becoming taunt bait and allows Qwilfish to check Talonflame better.
With intimidate, Qwilfish becomes pretty bulky on the physical side, taking physical hits better than Ferrothorn. This also allows Qwilfish to come on set up sweepers, such as Feraligtyr and Mega Altaria, with ease. The only downside is that you activate Defiant from Bisharp (though this can be solved by haze).
With it's poison/water typing, Qwilfish can easily counter multiple pokemon in OU. Some include Mega Lopunny, Azumarill, and Conkeldurr. It can also check Specs Keldeo locked into Secret Sword, Talonflame, and Mega Gyarados lacking Earthquake. Being immune to toxic is also useful. Compared to Tentecruel, Qwilfish can wall much more physical attackers with the cost of special bulk. Unlike Tentecruel, Qwilfish cannot check/counter pokemon like Gengar and non-Specs Keldeo.
Of course, Qwilfish has multiple flaws and seeks major competition with other spike users, especially Klefki and Ferrothorn. However, do to it not having a fire type weakness like all the other spike users, I believe that Qwilfish has great potential to become OU worthy.
Relevant calcs
-1 252 Atk Mega Lopunny Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Qwilfish: 100-118 (29.9 - 35.3%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Black Sludge recovery
-1 252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Qwilfish: 111-131 (33.2 - 39.2%) -- 14.8% chance to 3HKO after Black Sludge recovery
-1 252+ Atk Conkeldurr Drain Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Qwilfish: 41-48 (12.2 - 14.3%) -- possibly the worst move ever
-1 252+ Atk Choice Band Scizor Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Qwilfish: 101-119 (30.2 - 35.6%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Black Sludge recovery
REPLAYS:
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-219059907
If needed, I will provide more replays if you request.
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I actually agree with this but you should bold taunt,intimidate, and thunder wave as those are qwilfish's biggest advantages over tentacruel.
My thing about this replay is that they pretty much played like ass and in the end lost due to the ignorance of what Qwilfish does in lower tiers along with just sloppy playing overall. As far as the whole aspect of using Intimidate on set up sweepers all that's really doing is prolonging the inevitable, in the case of Gatr they just keep setting up, in the case of M-Altaria they keep setting up if you lack Poison STAB. This isn't really a strong case to be honest for moving this to D.
Serperior should be b plus IMO
grass typing is extremely underrated in this metagame and with contrary its now a offense force that teams have to worry about
its primary set
leaf storm
dragon pulse
synthesis
hp ground/fire
provides good coverage recovery and a prediction game with which hp it has.... it covers most of the metagame and its very fast on the right team it can do wonders
grass typing is extremely underrated in this metagame and with contrary its now a offense force that teams have to worry about
its primary set
leaf storm
dragon pulse
synthesis
hp ground/fire
provides good coverage recovery and a prediction game with which hp it has.... it covers most of the metagame and its very fast on the right team it can do wonders
The 'good coverage' you speak of, is negligent, either way you run it this thing is walled by something super relevant. No HP Ground? Hi Heatran! No HP Fire? Say hello to my little friend(s) Scizor, Ferro, and Skarmory. ((Although the former and the latter don't like taking the hits as well.))
And for Synthesis you can also run fillers like Glare, Giga Drain, Substitute, Knock Off, many things. Synthesis is reliable recovery but Serp doesn't need it as much as Giga Drain does way more than enough damage neutrally at +2/+4/+6 to heal off anything, Glare is nice for slowing down things that hinder your team. ((And as a perk, it hits ground types.)) Sub can help you set up that +4/+6 much easier and cushion you from your checks for a turn. Although, Synthesis is p useful in a pinch, sometimes working over Giga. Grass is a bad offensive type, and Serp's movepool I could piss deeper.
Overall, Serp is useful. But the things you said are completely incorrect.
Edit: Forgot to mention scouting is a thing.
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A grass typing, reliable recovery, and good coverage are not really good reasons for it to move up. You're argument needs to be much more convincing than that. Contrary was the reason it was B in the first place, you can't use that as an argument for it to move up to B+. You also really need to explain how grass is extremely underrated in the metagame. It's a weak offensive typing, and it's not like it's super good defensively either. Synthesis is literally run on like maybe 2% of sets, and serperior doesn't even need recovery, it's not a wall, and it has giga drain anyways. Good coverage? Grass is a rather weak offensive typing and dragon coverage is kinda sucky, really only hitting dragon types and some grass resists neutrally. It's pretty fast, but it still has a bunch of surefire counters such as venusaur, torn-t, tran if no hp ground, ferro and scizor if no hp fire, chansey if no knock off / glare hax. Revenge killing it also isn't hard, with stuff like mamoswine, talonflame, scarf lando around. I think serperior is fine in B for now.
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Well, in my opinion a pokemon that should be in a higher ranking (maximum B-) is the cofagrigus , which in my opinion is a great pokemon , despite its HP is low, it has good defenses and Special Attack good too , and that he has access to Calm Mind and will-o - wisp , causing it to become a mixed wall , not to mention his abbility cancels many strategies , turning hugh power of azumaril , technician of scizor , among other abbilitys in mummy , leaving the useless and even the burning.
Charizard-y should be in A or A+ visto que ele possui um speed decente e um sp.atk enorme que junto ao sol faz os seus stabs de fogo darem um dano muito alto, além de que ele possui moves para coverage tais como ancient power para talonflames e outros mega charizards-y, solar beam para pokemons de água e de pedra, dragon pulse para dragons, e air slash servindo como um segundo stab, e ele também possui roost para se curar, seu único problema é a fraqueza para stealth rock, mas pode ser compensada caso você leve algum deffoger ou rapid spinner em seu time, ou caso manda o mega charizard-y como lead.
AM Edit: Char-Y traits translation.
Decent Speed, enormous special attack to take advantage of STAB, coverage options like ancientpower for Talonflame. Problem is Stealth Rock but Rapid Spin or Defog support easily handles that.
English next time please.
Charizard-y should be in A or A+ visto que ele possui um speed decente e um sp.atk enorme que junto ao sol faz os seus stabs de fogo darem um dano muito alto, além de que ele possui moves para coverage tais como ancient power para talonflames e outros mega charizards-y, solar beam para pokemons de água e de pedra, dragon pulse para dragons, e air slash servindo como um segundo stab, e ele também possui roost para se curar, seu único problema é a fraqueza para stealth rock, mas pode ser compensada caso você leve algum deffoger ou rapid spinner em seu time, ou caso manda o mega charizard-y como lead.
AM Edit: Char-Y traits translation.
Decent Speed, enormous special attack to take advantage of STAB, coverage options like ancientpower for Talonflame. Problem is Stealth Rock but Rapid Spin or Defog support easily handles that.
English next time please.
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I think you're like really exaggerating Cofragrigus. Base 58 HP is actually really low and it's special defense is probably mediocre at best. Defensive sets face stiff competition from Pokemon such as Mega Sableye, and even Doublade (which is actually a niche check to mons like MGarde, Mega Medicham, and Mega Heracross). Lacking reliable recovery is also really annoying, and mummy goes away after they switch out (I think, don't quote me on this). It's also extremely predictable; most of the time, your opponent is going to send in a Scizor, go bullet punch on your Cofragrigus, and then just switch out in to a pokemon that can defeat it or that doesn't care about a burn. Status is also really annoying for it as a defensive pokemon. Pokemon such as Chansey and Mega Sableye all have ways of blocking status, whether through heal bell or magic bounce. If anything, I think it's best set is probably a trick room set, after it gets a nasty plot up and under trick room, it's actually not that bad. Anyways, as I said earlier, 58 HP is actually really deceiving, and probably less bulky (especially on the special side) than you think.
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Cofagrigus: 218-257 (68.3 - 80.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Thundurus Thunderbolt vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Cofagrigus: 177-211 (55.4 - 66.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Pixilate Mega Altaria Hyper Voice vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Cofagrigus: 178-210 (55.7 - 65.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
200+ SpA Kyurem Ice Beam vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Cofagrigus: 148-175 (46.3 - 54.8%) -- 98.8% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+2 0 SpA Manaphy Scald vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Cofagrigus: 163-193 (51 - 60.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
Pretty much any moderately powerful special attacker can muscle past it, and this is only compounded by the fact that is has no reliable recovery and is easily worn down.
no comprendo gg
So I can kinda guess what you're saying. Decent speed, enormous special attack, good coverage, reliable recovery in roost, but it needs a rapid spinner or defogger to function. The 4x weakness to SR is actually really big. This limits it's switch ins, and after it takes something out, it's easily forced out by offensive pressure, because of it's worse 100 base speed tier. It doesn't really have a good match up against HO teams, when pretty much every mon on their team (Keldeo, Diancie, Thundurus) has 101 base speed or higher, so Zard Y really doesn't have too many switch in opportunities, and after it takes something out, it just gets forced out rather easily. Landorus-I also wallbreaks decently well, has good coverage, but it can also run Rock Polish to threaten offensive teams, or CM to threaten defensive teams. It's quite comparable to Landorus, really, wallbreaks pretty well, good coverage, and nothing really appreciates switching in. However, Landorus does have some crucial advantages over Zard Y. First off, 101 speed tier is better, kinda explained this already. Not requiring as much team support because it doesn't have a 4x weakness to SR, and can run moves like Knock Off + Focus Blast to get rid of Chansey whereas Zard Y needs pursuit support / Keldeo to do this. Having two solid boosting moves is also in Lando's favor, Rock Polish has a field day against offense, CM screws up stall teams, while a simple all out attacking set runs over balanced teams. When you compare Zard Y to other A+ mons that are metagame defining, you can see that it's really just not on their level. Pokemon like Diancie, Gengar, Mega Sableye, MLop, Lando-T, Thundurus-I, and Clefable are all extremely influencing and for the most part, "splashable". Zard Y also has some opportunity cost involved. Many other wallbreakers such as Lando-I, Gengar, specs Keldeo are on par with Zard Y in terms of wallbreaking (Gengar actually is much harder to switch into tbh), and don't use up the mega slot. So yeah, Zard Y has good speed for a wallbreaker, good coverage, and hits pretty hard. However, it has a bad match up against HO which is super common, it has a 4x SR weakness, requires lots of team support such as defog, rapid spin, pursuit, and specs keld, and it isn't really on par with other A+ mons like Diancie, Gengar, and Clefable, are holding it back from being A+.
edit: oops, didn't see AM's translation
I think you're right, Charizard mega-y has some problems that prevent entering the rank A + as you mentioned, especially the stealth rock and the very fact that the Pokemon pass the speed.
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I would actually say Char-Y to A+ isn't the most absurd thing actually. It puts such an insane amount of pressure on anything slower than it, and the meta is slowing down, as metas usually do later in their development. This makes it more favorable to Char-Y overall. Yeah 100 speed isn't great, but it outspeeds what it needs to. Anymore than that would be kinda borked lol. The spammablility of Fire Blast / Flamethrower is pretty insane, Fire Blast 2HKOs Latios! That's top tier powering through your resists, and I happen to think there is a lot of value in being able to spam your STAB that much. Bulky Waters, commonly used as general Fire resists at the most basic teambuilding level, are handled by Solarbeam. Seems simple, but a surprising small amount of Fire types have the coverage to power through bulky Waters. This thing is just overlooked and underprepared for. Sure, you can see the Pursuit support coming from a mile away. But then... it forces 50/50s that are more in your favor than your opponents. Do you switch-in Latias knowing they can just double switch to Bish? Do you let Latias take a hit or two? You can't really Roost in Char-Y's face after a hit or two because that opens up a window for TTar to come in damage free. Yeah, the Char-Y + Pursuit thing seems obvious but it's pretty effective and is very hard to play around. The Defog-Rocks argument isn't too solid. I think we've established that it is more of a filler argument than anything tbh. Char-Y to A+.
Cresselia isn't very bad right now. Being able to check MegaGross, Mega Altaria, some Keldeo, Azumarill, Lati twins, and others is pretty good when the metagame revolves around them. She also has access to TWave and Toxic to cripple things like Slowbro, Keldeo, Latis, MegaGross, and the aforementioned threats above. And that bulk is just amazing. 120/120/130 is amazing solid, being able to tank hits on both sides of the spectrum. She also has access to Ice Beam to take out or scare out things like Landorus-T locked into EQ, Landorus-I lacking Knock Off(even then it doesn't 2HKO), etc. Levitate isn't a bad ability, being able to beat Garchomp, Landorus-T, Excadrill, etc is nothing to sneeze at. And of course, she has a Knock Off weakness which hurts a lot. And her recovery isn't very reliable, but she can wall a lot of things if done properly.
-0 Atk Life Orb Landorus Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia: 140-166 (31.5 - 37.3%) -- 85.8% chance to 3HKO
0 SpA Cresselia Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Landorus: 272-324 (85.2 - 101.5%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
+1 252+ Atk Pixilate Mega Altaria Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia: 202-238 (45.4 - 53.6%) -- 1.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Metagross Meteor Mash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia: 135-160 (30.4 - 36%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Latios Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Cresselia: 220-259 (49.5 - 58.3%) -- 64.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Cresselia: 213-252 (47.9 - 56.7%) -- 35.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia: 169-201 (38 - 45.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 Atk Garchomp Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia: 249-294 (56 - 66.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Life Orb Excadrill Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia: 122-146 (27.4 - 32.8%) -- 81.3% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Cresselia Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Landorus: 272-324 (85.2 - 101.5%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
+1 252+ Atk Pixilate Mega Altaria Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia: 202-238 (45.4 - 53.6%) -- 1.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Metagross Meteor Mash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia: 135-160 (30.4 - 36%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Latios Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Cresselia: 220-259 (49.5 - 58.3%) -- 64.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Cresselia: 213-252 (47.9 - 56.7%) -- 35.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia: 169-201 (38 - 45.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 Atk Garchomp Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia: 249-294 (56 - 66.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Life Orb Excadrill Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia: 122-146 (27.4 - 32.8%) -- 81.3% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
I can understand it, don't get me wrong, I was trying to refer more or less the same, for example Moltres and Char-Y, someone could argue that Moltres could be useful because of having a useful STAB in Hurricane, but aside from that still Char-Y has much more power and beneficial traits than it even taking into consideration that he is a m-evo, and even if the difference in a STAB is a factor to take into account, is not enough for Moltres to be used over something like Char-Y.
Not implying that this is the same case, but I just want a point out that a mon needs to have a good niche for it to be used over other one, and lets be real Tailwind is cool, but I don't feel it is enough for it to be used over Celebi or Serperior(and to add that it will struggle to set Tailwind because if he goes support it lacks offensive presence, and also lacks the speed to set it before taking a hit, in that way something like Talonflame has a much easier time doing it because of priority even with the SR weakness,or Suicune who has a better defensive typing and is much bulkier, tough that is not the point of the argument, I just wanted to point out that there are better setters for it.), I know that you did not say that, I just want to express what I believe.
EDIT:Just remembered, Whimsicott also outclasses it as a Tailwind setter, so yeah is outclassed by anything it wants to do.
Tough I will try to list the cons when talking about a mon to avoid misunderstandings and that my argument is more clear and all that.
Anyways, I have said enough about Shaymin, it feels like Milotic all over again, not that bad but kind off.
Also did not realized that Suicune moved up, I was going to nominate for it, lol.
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Something that I'd like to see is Reuniclus moving up to C+ or B-. C rank is just too low for something that takes a shit on common defensive 'mons such as Heatran and Ferrothorn. It is a decent check to some physical attackers like LO Terrakion, and being able to CM versus Megas like Manectric, Diancie and Lopunny is pretty cool. Reuniclus has some niches over Clefable in greater HP and Sp Atk, Psyshock for fat special walls and Focus Blast to wreck Pokemon like the aforementioned Heatran, which Clef cannot hope to beat.
You are right, most pokemons in OU are slow than charizard, so he can outspeed and kill then, Walter types ins't a problem, because charizard have solar beam and the drought protects charizard of Walter type moves.
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