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Other ORAS OU Viability Ranking Thread V2 - Check Post #2500 PG. 100

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Mega Medicham C+ to B-

I agree with this. The immediate power is quite hard to switch into especially for a lot of balance teams and I just don't really see it as being on the same level as stuff like Bronzong and Magneton, it fits more with stuff like Lucario and Mega Chomp IMO.

Starmie A to A+

I don't agree here. Starmie is awesome but it has some notable weaknesses that prevent it from being A+. First of all while its bulky set checks Keldeo amazingly and is a reliable spinner, it's really easy to take advantage of with bulky setup sweepers like SD Gliscor and it can be easily spinblocked by Mega Sableye. The offensive set packs a lot more power but its worn down more easily than the best hazard remover in the tier (Latios) and forgoes recovery usually. It's a really solid mon in the current metagame but I don't think things have gotten so good for it that it's A+.

Skarmory B+ to A-

Definitely agree with this. Custap lead set is awesome for HO and more conventional defensive sets still wall a ton of things while having multiple utility options. Sure Skarmory is hard countered by a lot of special attackers but it does its job really well and can do a variety of things like Defog, set up hazards or phaze setup sweepers. I think the Custap set is enough to push it up.

Not sure how I feel about Empoleon.

I haven't used or played against Tyrantrum or Alakazam very much so I have no comment on those for now.
 
The problem with Skarm's Custap set in HO is that it's very easy to predict it to lead in HO and you can choose a Taunt user or something to stop it. Short of that, you can limit it to one layer of hazards by using a weaker hit to break sturdy but leave it out of custap range, then finish it off with a stronger hit. One layer of hazards isn't too hard to deal with, even against HO where you might not gen an opportunity to get rid of it. I reckon that Skarm is fine in B+ as both a hazards lead and a wall.
 
The problem with Skarm's Custap set in HO is that it's very easy to predict it to lead in HO and you can choose a Taunt user or something to stop it. Short of that, you can limit it to one layer of hazards by using a weaker hit to break sturdy but leave it out of custap range, then finish it off with a stronger hit. One layer of hazards isn't too hard to deal with, even against HO where you might not gen an opportunity to get rid of it. I reckon that Skarm is fine in B+ as both a hazards lead and a wall.
I mean this is all cute and dandy until you come to the conclusion the game is a two person aspect. I could make up a scenario that completely benefits Skarmory the same way you deterred its effectiveness. I think we all now in what ways this can be mitigated but HO leads are more or less always built on the concept and premise that they'll succeed in getting these hazards up either through their own utility or the utility provided by the partner. Also the reason for a rise is the combination of both Custap and Specially Defensive set. Also one layer of hazards could mean a KO or a missed KO, there's a reason why hazards stacking is so dominant in the meta-game right now due to just its effectiveness in the tier and you can even tell by the way certain bumps and rises have taken place on the rankings such as Reuniclus going up for its anti-hazard qualities along with Dragalges T-Spike utility.
 
I mean this is all cute and dandy until you come to the conclusion the game is a two person aspect. I could make up a scenario that completely benefits Skarmory the same way you deterred its effectiveness. I think we all now in what ways this can be mitigated but HO leads are more or less always built on the concept and premise that they'll succeed in getting these hazards up either through their own utility or the utility provided by the partner. Also the reason for a rise is the combination of both Custap and Specially Defensive set. Also one layer of hazards could mean a KO or a missed KO, there's a reason why hazards stacking is so dominant in the meta-game right now due to just its effectiveness in the tier and you can even tell by the way certain bumps and rises have taken place on the rankings such as Reuniclus going up for its anti-hazard qualities along with Dragalges T-Spike utility.

I'm not saying the Custap set is bad, just that it's not that much better than many other sets like SashChomp which is much more offensive and faster. You can usually tell it's Custap straight away by the team build, maybe you can't on some teams but I can assume most people will. I'm not claiming that your prediction skills will always be perfect (the prediction argument goes both ways etc. etc.) but come on, it's a lead Skarmory and like I said, if the team has Clefable, Ferrothorn and Rotom you can be pretty sure it's not Custap Skarm, and is more likely to be SpDef, but if the team has Mega Lop, Gengar and Thundurus etc. you can guess it's likely to be Custap Skarm and choose your lead based on that. One layer of hazards is, as you said, really good and you shouldn't underrate it. I agree completely, but Skarm isn't the only one that can do that. It's still in B+ rank, so it's not like it's terrible. But looking at the utility of things like Jirachi, raikou, Mega Gallade, Mew and so on, they either have a ton of sets which you can't predict simply based on the team, or they are amazingly good at one role.

Magnezone is also worth noting as a direct counter to SpDef Skarm, even though it's not on many teams atm.

But, I'll be honest, you can take my input with a grain of salt because I haven't used the Salac set, only the SpDef set, although I have played against Salac and kept them to one layer every time.
 
You can't really compare lead Garchomp to lead Skarmory. Garchomp doesn't have spikes, taunt, sturdy, or a self destructing move such as brave bird. Garchomp is faster, but it doesn't really matter because skarmory is almost always getting at least one hazard up thanks to sturdy. Besides, if your opponent has a mon like Mega Diancie or Mega Sableye, you can always adjust your lead according, such as leading with lando-i or scarf keldeo, and then after they switch out, you can bring in skarmory to set up hazards because they don't have magic bounce yet. The prediction argument goes both ways as you said; if they predict a custap skarm lead, you can choose your own lead that has a good match up against it.

"they either have a ton of sets which you can't predict simply based on the team, or they are amazingly good at one role."

I think this fits skarmory perfectly. It doesn't have a ton of sets, but it's amazingly good at one role - hazard stacking. It's one of the best HO spike stackers out there, and is also a great defensive mon, being able to take on mega metagross and mega lopunny.

"Magnezone is also worth noting as a direct counter to SpDef Skarm, even though it's not on many teams atm."

This is just another reason for skarmory to move up. Magnezone has recently dropped in usage, and steel trapping is getting less and less common, so skarmory doesn't need to run shed shell anymore; instead it can run other options such as rocky helmet to screw with physical attackers, or leftovers for passive recovery.
 
I'm really conflicted about this, but I support Starmie to A+. It's a borderline case, though, so I'm not sure if it's worth elevating it to A+ because its viability will probably always bounce around A-/A/A+ depending on metagame trends.

One thing that hasn't been brought up (or I haven't noticed) is that Starmie doesn't need Rapid Spin in this metagame if you aren't worried about entry hazards. I've seen quite a few 3 Attacks + Recover sets, with either Thunderbolt or Ice Beam as coverage, and tbf I can see a LO 4 Attacks set being viable because it's fucking impossible to switch in to unless you have a pink blob. Obviously these sets are generally inferior to a set with Rapid Spin, but if you can hide your coverage, Starmie becomes a very difficult force to deal with, especially if you have a 4 attacks set, where you can show one of your coverage options early and whack their Gliscor with Ice Beam something else with different coverage later. Offensive Starmie sets dissuade Pursuit trapping by threatening would-be Pursuit trappers on the switch; most Starmie users know the unique joy of OHKOing a Bisharp switching in with Analytic Hydro Pump.

On the downside, Starmie is pretty frail and is sometimes outclassed as a Water-Type special attacker by Keldeo, although outspeeding the base 110s as well as Serperior is just lovely. It fears Pursuit trappers, although the most common can't switch in safely. I'm not 100% sure that Starmie delivers as much as other A+ mons, but it's brutal with correct prediction and just a bit of luck.
 
I actually built a relatively successful team around Mega Medicham around a week or so ago, and i definitely think it's good enough to warrant a raise in ranking.

While M-Cham requires a bit more support than M-Gallade due to its subpar speed and lack of Dark or Ghost coverage (I personally like Power Herb Heatran to lure in and trap Slowbro for M-Cham, as well as trap and beat M-Sab, Cresselia, and Mew), the difference in their immediate power is pretty evident. Being able to 2HKO practically every common mon used on balance off the bat is pretty amazing. Especially since it sits in an amazing speed tier for a wallbreaker. On top of that, neither Heatran nor Ferrothorn run Protect much at all anymore, which means HJK mind games are no longer a thing like in XY.

Being able to OHKO Fat Chomp, Scarf Landorus-T, Gliscor, and 2HKO Bulky Landorus-T, Calm Clefable, Skarmory, Rotom-W, Mandibuzz, and Hippowdon very comfortably is amazing when you pair it with another physical setup sweeper like SD Talonflame, Double Dance Landorus-T, SD Terrakion, etc. Especially since it easily 2HKOs Unaware Clef and Quagsire with Adamant Zen Headbutt and HJK respectively.

C+ is a bit insulting when it's pretty unprepared for right now and OHKOs/2HKOs the entire metagame barring fat Psychics and M-Sab. I think B- is more appropriate for it at the least.
 
I'm not saying the Custap set is bad, just that it's not that much better than many other sets like SashChomp which is much more offensive and faster. You can usually tell it's Custap straight away by the team build, maybe you can't on some teams but I can assume most people will. I'm not claiming that your prediction skills will always be perfect (the prediction argument goes both ways etc. etc.) but come on, it's a lead Skarmory and like I said, if the team has Clefable, Ferrothorn and Rotom you can be pretty sure it's not Custap , and is more likely to be SpDef, but if the team has Mega Lop, Gengar and Thundurus etc. you can guess it's likely to be Custap Skarm and choose your lead based on that. One layer of hazards is, as you said, really good and you shouldn't underrate it. I agree completely, but Skarm isn't the only one that can do that. It's still in B+ rank, so it's not like it's terrible. But looking at the utility of things like Jirachi, raikou, Mega Gallade, Mew and so on, they either have a ton of sets which you can't predict simply based on the team, or they are amazingly good at one role.

Magnezone is also worth noting as a direct counter to SpDef Skarm, even though it's not on many teams atm.

But, I'll be honest, you can take my input with a grain of salt because I haven't used the Salac set, only the SpDef set, although I have played against Salac and kept them to one layer every time.

I have notable expiriance with Suiskarm, and I can say that it is good mostly because it is the only lead that can reliably set up stealth rock and at least one layer of spikes. Obviously, lead off skarm or can be predicted and taunted, but so can SashChomp and any lead, for that matter. I find that getting only stealth rocks up is mostly a waste of a pokemon, even if it does do so reliably and grab momentum. (I'm looking at you, Azelf. Even if you do blow up well.) Overall, it's definitely a premier choice for a suicide lead and is definitely on par with other A- mons like Megadactyl and klefki.
 
I'm really conflicted about this, but I support Starmie to A+. It's a borderline case, though, so I'm not sure if it's worth elevating it to A+ because its viability will probably always bounce around A-/A/A+ depending on metagame trends.

One thing that hasn't been brought up (or I haven't noticed) is that Starmie doesn't need Rapid Spin in this metagame if you aren't worried about entry hazards. I've seen quite a few 3 Attacks + Recover sets, with either Thunderbolt or Ice Beam as coverage, and tbf I can see a LO 4 Attacks set being viable because it's fucking impossible to switch in to unless you have a pink blob. Obviously these sets are generally inferior to a set with Rapid Spin, but if you can hide your coverage, Starmie becomes a very difficult force to deal with, especially if you have a 4 attacks set, where you can show one of your coverage options early and whack their Gliscor with Ice Beam something else with different coverage later. Offensive Starmie sets dissuade Pursuit trapping by threatening would-be Pursuit trappers on the switch; most Starmie users know the unique joy of OHKOing a Bisharp switching in with Analytic Hydro Pump.

On the downside, Starmie is pretty frail and is sometimes outclassed as a Water-Type special attacker by Keldeo, although outspeeding the base 110s as well as Serperior is just lovely. It fears Pursuit trappers, although the most common can't switch in safely. I'm not 100% sure that Starmie delivers as much as other A+ mons, but it's brutal with correct prediction and just a bit of luck.
I'd just like to add that LO 4 Attacks Starmie is super legit. I've played around with it recently and I was really impressed by how much work it puts in. The best thing about Starmie is that the only offensive Water type that people are really preparing their defensive cores for is Keldeo. Now, out of the two of them, Keldeo definitely hits a lot harder, I'm not questioning it's placement at all. However, any decent defensive core these days has a switch in to Keldeo's STABs. Because of Starmie's better coverage and access to Psyshock instead of Secret Sword as a STAB, it doesn't particularly mind those cores, and can tear them apart with Analytic Ice Beams and Psyshocks.

Below are some fun calcs against Keldeo's stops, aka the ones you'll generally be seeing as the Water type switch ins of choice.
252 SpA Life Orb Analytic Starmie Psyshock vs. 240 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 220-261 (54.8 - 65%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Analytic Starmie Ice Beam vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Mega Latias: 195-231 (53.7 - 63.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Analytic Starmie Ice Beam vs. 72 HP / 0 SpD Latias: 221-260 (69.2 - 81.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Analytic Starmie Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 240+ Def Mega Venusaur: 234-276 (64.2 - 75.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Analytic Starmie Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 136+ Def Amoonguss: 374-445 (86.5 - 103%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Analytic Starmie Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Mega Slowbro: 231-273 (58.6 - 69.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Analytic Starmie Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Slowbro: 333-393 (84.5 - 99.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Analytic Starmie Psyshock vs. 200 HP / 0 Def Dragalge: 400-476 (124.6 - 148.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Analytic Starmie Ice Beam vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Celebi: 278-328 (68.9 - 81.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Also, if you want to be cute...
252 SpA Life Orb Analytic Starmie Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 168 SpD Ferrothorn: 281-333 (79.8 - 94.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Honestly, this thing gives me Greninja vibes when I use it. Not quite as powerful, obviously, but it's still an absolute pain for balanced teams to switch into. I can get behind a push for Starmie to go to A+.
 
Mega Medicham C+ to B-

Definitely agreed. We got the hardest hitter in the entire metagame at C+? Along with a bronzong and a magneton? We should put megachamp to B- as this monster possesses everything except exerting an above average presence in the metagame.

- Crappy speed tier. Base 100 is nothing these days.
- Frail as fuck. 60-85-85 just doesn't let him soak anything to save his life.
+ Power. Loads of pure fucking power. Hits as hard as a band dragonite without locking into a move.
+ Priority. Fake out + Bullet Punch does so much damage it isn't even remotely close to funny.
+ Good movepool. Just because everyone and their grandmothers run the same 2 stab 2 priority set doesn't mean nothing else is playable. Sub 3 attacks, sub Power Up Punch 2 attacks are other playable sets. BP can be swapped out for coverage as well.
+ Resists SR.
 
Nominating Infernape from C to C+

An interesting Pokemon with quite a few uses that completely outshines all those sitting in C rank alongside it.

+Offensive Stealth Rock user.
+Solid lead matchup and utility with moves like Endeavour and Taunt
+Mixed Offenses so it can run either fully special/phys or mixed wallbreaker along with great STAB
+Versatile and somewhat unexpected, can sweep unprepared teams
-incredibly frail and can die to common priority like Jet and BB, even +2 BP from bulky mega scizor will 2hko after SR
-wants to run lots of moves at once such as u-turn, Fire Blast, Close Combat, Flare Blitz Mach Punch, Hidden Power Ice, Stone Edge, Grass Knot, Nastyplot, SR, Fake-out, endeavour, etc making hard to decide what you want to stay covered by.
-barely missed out on 110 speed but so does Keldeo.
 
I agree with Infernape rising. It has a great typing which allows it to hardcheck two of the most threatening mons in the current metagame: Bisharp and Mega-Scizor. It also checks a lot of other mons like Celebi, Breloom, Mew (running WoW + Taunt) etc.
It has variety of sets it can run because of its huge movepool. That's why it fits well in both Offense and Balance. Infernape can be used as a suicide lead, mixed LO attacker, SD sweeper or stallbreaker (which is my favorite set as burning common switchins like Landorus-T and Azumarill is huge) etc. It also has access to priority Mach Punch which lets it revenge kill a lot of mons after some prior damage (Lopunny, scarfed Kyurem-B, scarfed Tyrannitar and Sand Rush / scarfed Excadrill for instance.)
 
Manaphy from A to A-
I feel like this poke has really underwhelming qualities as a sweeper in our current meta both offensively(it's move pool is not all that) and defensively When we are comparing to other bulky waters our walls in general that are more for to handle things like m meta and or landorus (both forms honestly) and in general i think i haven't heard anything about it giving people problems in rmts or discussed as a good partner to high level (A+ and above) mons sorry this isn't too elaborate but I'm on Mobile
 
Manaphy from A to A-
I feel like this poke has really underwhelming qualities as a sweeper in our current meta both offensively(it's move pool is not all that) and defensively When we are comparing to other bulky waters our walls in general that are more for to handle things like m meta and or landorus (both forms honestly) and in general i think i haven't heard anything about it giving people problems in rmts or discussed as a good partner to high level (A+ and above) mons sorry this isn't too elaborate but I'm on Mobile
Yeah no way, granted A+ was a subjective aspect but in no way should it drop to A-. Tail Glow variants alone with coverage option to tackle whatever the team needs is enough to keep it A and makes defensive cores an enormous liability to run. Also the RMT sub-forum isn't really a great indicator of what problems people have cause there are probably a good 10-20 more problems teams have than just the ones they stated or they have overlooked. Its movepool is much more vast than you're giving it credit for and it's definitely one of the better water types in the tier at this moment.
 
Manaphy from A to A-
I feel like this poke has really underwhelming qualities as a sweeper in our current meta both offensively(it's move pool is not all that) and defensively When we are comparing to other bulky waters our walls in general that are more for to handle things like m meta and or landorus (both forms honestly) and in general i think i haven't heard anything about it giving people problems in rmts or discussed as a good partner to high level (A+ and above) mons sorry this isn't too elaborate but I'm on Mobile
Manaphy is fine in A. It actually has a solid movepool, with coverage options such as ice beam, energy ball, and psychic, while also having access to one of the best boosting moves in the game, tail glow. Defensively 100 / 100 / 100 bulk isn't bad by any means, but it's not stellar either. However, it does have a great mono water defensive typing. You shouldn't compare manaphy to other bulky waters; it usually doesn't invest in it's defenses, and if you're trying to use it to handle stuff like mega metagross and landorus, you're using it wrong. As AM said, RMT doesn't matter because tbh it's rather cancerous and manaphy is actually often overlooked as a problem. Manaphy is a great pokemon at destroying stall teams and should stay at A.
 
I dont think manaphy needs to drop tbh. Offensively, its movepull is great, having water stab plus energy ball, ice beam, and even hp fire. Its cm set is also nice, as scald does a lot of damage with rain and resting with hydration gives an acceptable recovery.
 
Hippowdon -> A+
the Mixed tank set in OU is a massive defensive threat. It has a solid defensive typing and moveset. It can check or counter birdspam, come in on powerful physical attackers like Bisharp Excadrill and Charizard X without breaking a sweat, and you don't even have to predict to crush a volt switcher's momentum. It's got enough bulk to stomach hits from wallbreakers like Zard Y and stone edge it in a pinch. It's a staple on balance because of the massive amount of pokemon it can deal with. It has solid recovery and can easily set up Stealth rocks on everything it walls (which is a long list). It can also bring in sand stream to disrupt rain, boost excadrill and other rock types who appreciate sand like aerodactyl or provide valuable chip damage. It's also a part of the heavily spammed Ferro/Starmie/Hippo Balance core. it's not set up bait either with whirlwind in it's moveset. It can even take on Latios if need be, slacking off on a tanked draco meteor 252 SpA Life Orb Latios Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 112 SpD Hippowdon: 312-368 (74.2 - 87.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery/ It does have a few flaws especially a weakness to water, but thats a side effect of it's very solid ground typing. It has enough attack to not be as passive as say, alomomola, but it doesn't bring any offensive presence unless your name is TFL and you're using Banded Sand Force. I think it's massive usefulness in teambuilding balance warrents a move up. I really cannot overstate how bulky this thing is. the amount of pokemon it can nail in a pinch is insane, such as Gardevoir and Gengar.
 
I'd like to nominate Pangoro to rise to C. Pangoro got much better with the ORAS move tutors, and I think it got neglected for a while when the upper ranks were getting cleaned up. The first thing you see when you look at Pangoro is his STAB coverage. Besides fairies, this combination gives him perfect neutral coverage in Knock Off and Drain Punch, allowing him to batter opponents. Parting Shot gives Pangoro a pivot move, and in conjunction with Pangoro's low speed, endows the panda with supportive abilities to get frail teammates in safely. However, the main reason I think Pangoro should move up is his newfound access to Gunk Shot. Now Pangoro can get past Fairies, his main problem in XY. Pangoro still has flaws such as mediocre bulk and lackluster speed, but utility in Parting Shot in addition to perfect coverage makes me believe that Pangoro deserves a rise. C- is definitely underselling it and it imo should rise to C.
 
Seconding Pangoro's rise to C (or even C+) not only as a wallbreaker, which it's great at, but also as a bulky pivot on balance and bulky offense teams.
pangoro.gif

Pangoro @ Leftovers
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 212 HP / 40 Atk / 232 Def / 24 Spe
Impish Nature
- Drain Punch
- Knock Off
- Parting Shot
- Toxic / Gunk Shot

I've been using this set the start of ORAS and shared it in Next Best Thing and have found it to be effective at providing turns for setup sweepers and acting as a temporary check to some physical attackers. It handles Bisharp, Hammer Arm-less Megagross, Lando-T, Tyranitar and Mega Gyarados well among others. Its invested bulk gives it plently of opportunities to Parting Shot and having access to a cleric allows it to do so even more.

Even though it is designed to be effective against more offensively-inclined teams, it still does well against Stall. Toxic helps to wear down several mons found on Stall and Pangoro is one of the few Pokemon able to successful poison Mega Sableye thanks to Mold Breaker. Knock Off is also nice for removing pesky Leftovers and Eviolites.

Since I wanted to get this post out while Pangoro was mentioned, I can only post the replay I had from January in which Pangoro helps to set a win condition for Serperior (and where you see one of the downsides of Parting Shot...).
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-202032764

With this set alongside Pangoro's wallbreaking SD and Choice Band/Life Orb sets, Pangoro should definitely rise to at least C if not C+.
 
gliscor.gif


Gliscor has been a growing presence on the ladder and just in general as it serves its purpose in beating stall, setting up, sweeping, taking hits, access to recovery etc etc. With the recent movement of Mega Altaria to S rank I've been contemplating Gliscor's promotion. Im not suggesting a move just yet, because I want some opinions on these thoughts though. ;]]]]]

edit: post #50 :3
 
gliscor.gif


Gliscor has been a growing presence on the ladder and just in general as it serves its purpose in beating stall, setting up, sweeping, taking hits, access to recovery etc etc. With the recent movement of Mega Altaria to S rank I've been contemplating Gliscor's promotion. Im not suggesting a move just yet, because I want some opinions on these thoughts though. ;]]]]]

edit: post #50 :3
Yeah I think the increase of Ice coverage on a bunch of stuff in the meta-game to check Lando is what keeps Gliscor out of S and the fact that it's centralizing but not to the point where it's something like M-Altaria where in one turn it can get out of control with its set up move is another indication why Gliscor shouldn't be S. I mean it threatens all playstyles to some extent but it's not some enormous burden to teams to the level that I see S rank Pokemon in our current meta-game. This isn't to say this is a huge point in why it shouldn't be S but funnily enough it loses to every single S rank pokemon as of right now easily and all the S rank more or less at least have ways to hinder each other through various coverage moves or item choices. I don't see Gliscor any superior to Talonflame and the rest of the A+ ranked mons and the superiority amongst the rank it's in would have to be clear and cut if it was to be even considered for a bump up.
 
Yeah I think the increase of Ice coverage on a bunch of stuff in the meta-game to check Lando is what keeps Gliscor out of S and the fact that it's centralizing but not to the point where it's something like M-Altaria where in one turn it can get out of control with its set up move is another indication why Gliscor shouldn't be S. I mean it threatens all playstyles to some extent but it's not some enormous burden to teams to the level that I see S rank Pokemon in our current meta-game. This isn't to say this is a huge point in why it shouldn't be S but funnily enough it loses to every single S rank pokemon as of right now easily and all the S rank more or less at least have ways to hinder each other through various coverage moves or item choices. I don't see Gliscor any superior to Talonflame and the rest of the A+ ranked mons and the superiority amongst the rank it's in would have to be clear and cut if it was to be even considered for a bump up.
ok you p much confirmed my thoughts, just felt like ive been seeing it alot lately, might be a phase tho. thanks am n_n
 
Thoughts on the current slate:
empoleon.gif
stays in B-.
I know its a got a unique typing for a defogger, as well as having a decent typing defensivley, but it just ends up getting naturally hammered by all the stuff it wants to check. Fairy check. Altaria and Equake, Diancie has Epower, Gardevoir has Focus Blast and Azumarill has superpower. Not to mention it gets worn down really easily due to a lack of reliable recovery. It is also hammered into the ground by 3 of the 4 S rank mons. Being an excellent check to the Latios and Latias, as well as being a pretty unique defogger saves it from dropping into the C ranks, but I can't see it being ranked with Serperior and Omaster.

skarmory.gif
up to A-
Custap berry was a excellent buff for Skarmory, turning an already relatively decent pokemon into an excellent hazard setter on offensive and hazard stacking teams. Not only does it offer excellent hazard stacking potential, but the ability to smash Diancie and Keldeo through the use of Iron Head and brave bird respectively. On top of this, it has access to some excellent support moves, such as taunt and more importantly, tailwind (which I've been using recently to turn powerful wall breakers into fast sweepers with amazing power). Its other sets are still at large, counter skarmory being one of the most reliable answers to the dreaded mega metagross. I personally feel its more on the level of some of the weaker A- mons then the stronger B+ mons.

medicham-mega.gif
up to B-
Seriously one of the most underrated mega's right. First of all, its not completely outclassed by mega gallade. While Gallade has access to knock off, better speed, a more efficient method of boosting, and more usable bulk, it lacks the raw power of Mega Medicham, and the difference is certainly noticeable before a boost. Unlike Gallade, Medicham can pose to be a much more threat to bulky mons that can survive more then two hits from gallade and retaliate with recovery. Dual priority is also a big boon over gallade, giving medicham ways to constantly wear down its checks and "Counters" (though sableye's mega form and mega slower is the only true counters I imagine). Balance teams will often find themselves over whelmed by its sheer power, and this will often cause something to either take immense damage or flat out die on a switch. Certainly better then most of C mons.

starmie.gif
up to A+

Now here are a nomination of my own

View attachment 38835 Starmie to A+
Starmie is an incredibly effective pokemon in the current metagame. It hits an incredible speed tier, allowing it to outspeed base 110's, including mega diancie, mega gallade, latios, latias and gengar. Its one of the most reliable keldeo checks in the tier, pivoting in and being able to easily kill keldeo with psyshock. Bulky can reflect type important stuff like bisharp, making it an excellent glue on teams that need something that can check a variety of pokemon. Offensive sets make for excellent cleaners, and it has coverage to easily deal with common switchins. Starmie also has two excellent ability, anaytic making a pain to switch into, while natural cure means it can make for a decent status absorber. Lets not forget the most notable thing about starmie, rapid spin. Starmie is the easily the most reliable spinner in the tier, as excadrill is often to slow to spin unless in the sand, which starmie outspeeds 85% of the tier already and requires no support what so ever. I feel like starmie is an incredibly effective pokemon right now and it should be A+.

Self explanatory.

tyrantrum.gif
up to B-
I'm keep the next two short, because I'm pressed for time. Tyrantrum is an extremely powerful wall breaker, that with a choice band equipped, can two-hit KO pretty much everything in the tier with the appropriate move. It also has access to rock polish and dragon dance to boost its subpar speed stat, but its typing and severely lack of bulk on the special side leave it with few opportunities to set up, making no higher then B-.

alakazam.gif
up to C+
Excellent revenge killer, very deadly against offensive teams, decent cleaner. I don't have to much experience using it, but when I have used it its always got the job done, and I've seen it been used well by other players.

Anyway, on to the innovative stuff. I've got to warn you now, some of these nominations are pretty weird, so I encourage you to keep an open mind and be flexible.
hydreigon.gif
up to B+
I originally nominated this for B, but I personally can see it more on the level of offensive threats such as mega swampert and terrakion, rather then serperior and omaster. Hydreigon is very prediction oriented, which means every time it has an opportunity to attack, theirs a decent chance something will end up dying. Hydreigon is easily able to dismantle most balance cores pretty easily with its stabs alone. It should also be noted that hydreigon actually hits harder then latios, since in can afford to run modest, something latios is incapable of doing. Hydreigon is also extremely versatile offensively. It has literally the best offence movepool in Ou, as well as great mixed attacking stats to achieve this. Hydreigon can even run utility moves such as taunt and tailwind to shut down walls and boost its subpar speed stat respectively. Overall, Hydreigon is extremely threatening to balance builds, has pretty cool typing offensively and defensively and is one of the most powerful wall breakers in the tier, and its ranking should reflect that.

volcarona.gif
up to A
Okay, I'll probally get a lot of hate for this, but seriously, this thing is just SO (take note on the capitalized so) good right now. I know being weak to talonflames brave bird is big pain in the ... abdomen, but Keldeo is S rank, and its weak to brave bird. What i really think the biggest counter argument (their will definitely be one) to this would be its crippling weakness to stealth rock, so Volcarona will often require excessive team support to be effective, but with excellent partners such as mega diancie and mega sableye introduced, both highly discouraging the use of stealth rock, volcarona will often be able to achieve a quiver dance or two (though I've personally been able to set up many more times on a regular basis) and proceed to sweep the opponents team. Volcarona's typing also provides it with handy resistances to fairy and ice, allowing to set up on sableye and clefable, as well as preventing mamoswine and weavile from revenge killing it. Volcarona is overall a devastating pokemon when provided the correct support, and I feel it should move to A.

alakazam-mega.gif
up to A
This is extremely underrated mega. Mega alakazam is armed to the spoons with fantastic special attack and speed, backed up a versatile and deadly ability, and a wide offensive movepool. Mega Alakazam is one of the best pokemon in the current meta when it comes to revenge killing a cleaning. Combination of psychic, focus blast and shadow ball provides perfect neutral coverage, giving alakazam a versatile 4th moveslot. However, one of the deadliest aspects of mega alakazam is its ability: Trace. This allows alakazam to copy the ability of the opposing pokemon. However, due to mega alakazams excellent speed tier, it will often be sent into revenge kill something such as landorus, and trace sheer force. Or trace swift swim to stop a sweep. Trace flash fire to wall heatran. Trace technician to turn hp fire into the new flamethrower. Alakazam will often end games do its high speed tier, as well as excellent special attack stat. Combined with a deadly ability, an excellent movepool, and excellent speed, mega alakazam is arguably on the deadliest revenge killers and cleaners in the current metagame.
 
Thoughts on the current slate:

View attachment 39498 up to B+
I originally nominated this for B, but I personally can see it more on the level of offensive threats such as mega swampert and terrakion, rather then serperior and omaster. Hydreigon is very prediction oriented, which means every time it has an opportunity to attack, theirs a decent chance something will end up dying. Hydreigon is easily able to dismantle most balance cores pretty easily with its stabs alone. It should also be noted that hydreigon actually hits harder then latios, since in can afford to run modest, something latios is incapable of doing. Hydreigon is also extremely versatile offensively. It has literally the best offence movepool in Ou, as well as great mixed attacking stats to achieve this. Hydreigon can even run utility moves such as taunt and tailwind to shut down walls and boost its subpar speed stat respectively. Overall, Hydreigon is extremely threatening to balance builds, has pretty cool typing offensively and defensively and is one of the most powerful wall breakers in the tier, and its ranking should reflect that.

Would like to add that Hydreigon hardly needs to predict at all. Maybe at the start of a match when the opponent has a Chansey or a fairy you would need to predict their switch and go for Flash Cannon/Superpower, but against a lot of cores you can just press Dark Pulse and follow up with Draco, or just go for Draco straight away. Having no actual hard checks except for Azumarill which has no recovery and is whittled heaps by Hazards/Dark Pulse on the switch every time. Whenever it gets a free switch, something will get smacked. The rise of Celebi is helpful to it, as it gets free switches on that, as well as non Ice Fang Mega Gyara (extremely rare atm), and its immunity to ground works wonders for it, letting it switch into Lando on the prediction (prediction goes both ways I know, but it actually counters some sets like Earth Power/Knock Off/Psychic).

Anyway, Hydreigon fits really comfotably in B+ imo with things like Mega Pert, Dragalge and Chansey, instead of just B with things like Quagsire, Mega Sceptile and Mega Sharpedo.
 
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I actually think that Volcarona is fine in A-, for the moment. You're kind of overselling it, tbh. It has a 4x weakness to Stealth Rock, so entry hazard removal is mandatory. Granted, most people bring entry hazard removal with or without Volcarona, but still, teams that run Volcarona need to remove Stealth Rock at every possible given chance, giving free turns to the opponent or losing momentum. Volcarona also has to pick its poison in terms of what walls it. If not running Bug Buzz, Dragon-types such as Latios can potentially give it trouble; if not running HP Ground, Heatran sits at it all day; if not running Giga Drain, bulky Water-types such as Azumarill just wall it. Setting up on Mega Sableye also isn't that important considering that Chansey is one of the most commonly seen Pokemon on stall with it, and Volcarona just lacks a way of getting past Chansey.
Volcarona is great at tearing apart unprepared teams and balanced cores, but it still requires lots of team support, such as, hazard removal (which can give away free turns or lose momentum) and specific Pokemon gone that it cannot get past (so an example of this would be Volcarona needs Latias gone if not running Bug Buzz, or Chansey). Also, I just don't see Volcarona up in A with giants such as Garchomp and Mega Slowbro, they require almost 0 team support and can effectively get their job done without too much team support. (Garchomp is a very good SR setter that can do its job efficiently almost every time, Mega Slowbro only needs powerful Electrics gone before it can set up.)
 
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