Seismitoad [QC 1/3]

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seismitoad.png

QC: Steve Angello / /
GP: /
Overview
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  • Access to Water Absorb, a good typing in Water / Ground alongside good bulk lets Seismitoad check a several Pokemon including non-Grass Knot Mega Metagross, Mega Scizor, Rotom-W, and Mega Manectric
  • Swift Swim makes Seismitoad a good offensive late-game cleaner in the rain, but when used on Seismitoad, it is very reliant on rain.
  • A 4x Grass-type weakness leaves Seismitoad easily beaten by Grass-types and any Pokemon that has powerful Grass-type coverage.
  • The lack of reliable recovery means Seismitoad's longevity is limited, and Seismitoad has to rely on the passive recovery from Leftovers.
  • Underaverage offensive presence because of Seismitoad's low Attack and Special Attack, which can be used to an advantage for foes to set up.
  • Niches over Gastrodon such as Knock Off, higher Speed, and better physical bulk

Defensive
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name: Defensive
move 1: Stealth Rock
move 2: Scald
move 3: Earthquake
move 4: Knock Off / Toxic
ability: Water Absorb
item: Leftovers
evs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
nature: Relaxed

Moves
========

  • Stealth Rock is a great utility move to punish and wear down switch-ins, especially those types that are weak to Rock-types.
  • Scald is a good spammable STAB that has a very good chance of burning foes that can come in, such as Breloom.
  • Earthquake is Seismitoad's physical Ground STAB move and hits Pokemon such as Azumarill and Keldeo harder as well as 2HKOing Mega Charizard X.
  • Toxic puts a timer on set-up sweepers such as Mega Charizard X and also wears down bulky Water-, Grass- and Dragon-type Pokemon switch-ins.
  • Knock Off provides great utility and cripples Pokemon such as Chansey, Ferrothorn and Rotom-W which are item-reliant by removing their item.

Set Details
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  • Maximum EV investment in HP and Defense and a Relaxed nature allow for as much physical bulk as possible to take on offensive Pokemon such as non-Grass Knot Metagross, Dragon Dance Altaria and Charizard, Mega Lopunny and Keldeo.
  • A Bold nature can also be used if not running Knock Off, as it allows Seismitoad to outspeed uninvested Skarmory and Politoed
  • Water Absorb is the chosen ability to provide a valuable immunity to Water-type moves and makes Seismitoad a solid check to them.
  • Leftovers give Seismitoad some passive recovery and is important as Seismitoad does not have any form of recovery aside from them.
Usage Tips
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  • Set up rocks as soon as possible to punish switches, but only when Seismitoad is in a safe position, for example, if it forces a switch.
  • Don't switch Seismitoad in repeatedly since it is worn down easily by attacks and hazards because of a lack of reliable recovery.
  • Utilise Seismitoad's good bulk to check many threats both early- and mid-game.
  • Scald is the most spammable move as it cripples a wide array of foes with burns.
  • Knock Off should be used against item-reliant Pokemon such as Chansey and Gliscor to cripple them. In general, it is a safe move to go for, because not many Pokemon like having their item removed.
  • Seismitoad can pivot into quite a few Choice-locked Pokemon such as Victini and Landorus-T and gain momentum from there.

Team Options
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  • In general, offensive Pokemon such as Talonflame, Mega Charizard Y, Volcarona, Scizor, and Mega Venusaur, make for good partners as they can beat the Grass-types which consistently force Seismitoad out. Additionally, they all appreciate the Stealth Rock support Seismitoad gives.
  • Set-up sweepers such as Mega Charizard X, Breloom and Scizor appreciate Seismitoad spreading burns with Scald, and can use this as an opportunity to set up. They also have relatively good synergy with Seismitoad.
  • VoltTurn users such as Rotom-W and Scizor gain momentum and give Seismitoad chances to switch in easier. Scizor in particular is a great partner, wearing down Fairy-types that Seismitoad may struggle to deal with such as Mega Altaria and Clefable whilst providing U-turn support so that Seismitoad can safely switch in. Seismitoad in return deals with Fire-types such as Talonflame that Scizor are demolished by.
  • Steel-types such as Bisharp, Ferrothorn, and Skarmory make for good partners because Seismitoad completely stops their biggest check in Magnezone. Bisharp, in particular, is good because it punishes the Defog users with Defiant, and Ferrothorn can complete the hazards. They also appreciate Seismitoad switching into Fire-type attacks with relative ease.
  • Wish users such as Jirachi are also quite good partners because they can pass Wishes to Seismitoad which is great because Seismitoad lacks reliable recovery on its own. Jirachi also takes on Mega Venusaur.

Rain Sweeper
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name: Rain Sweeper
move 1: Hydro Pump
move 2: Earth Power
move 3: Sludge Wave
move 4: Focus Blast
ability: Swift Swim
item: Life Orb
evs: 60 HP / 252 SpA / 196 Spe
nature: Modest

Moves
========

  • Hydro Pump is a very powerful STAB attack which becomes even more powerful after the boost of Rain. However, it is a bit inaccurate.
  • Earth Power is a secondary STAB move with great coverage and hits a wide range of types for super effective damage, such as Steel and Fire.
  • Sludge Wave is a coverage move because it allows Seismitoad to hit Grass-types for great damage which resist its dual STAB combination.
  • Focus Blast can be used in the fourth slot for high Base Power and great coverage on the overall, but has a bit low accuracy.
  • Knock Off could be opted to use as well as it lets Seismitoad hit Latias and Latios quite well, as they have no trouble taking Hydro Pump and Sludge Wave, and are immune to Earth Power. It also is useful for crippling item-reliant Pokemon such as Chansey, because Chansey can be 2HKOed with Hydro Pump after removal of her Eviolite.

Set Details
========

  • The given EV spread gives a boost to Seismitoad's offensive capabilities. The Speed EVs let it outspeed everything up to Choice Scarf Landorus-T, with the remaining EVs dumped into HP.
  • Swift Swim is the reason to use offensive Seismitoad, because it is a solid late-game cleaner in the rain because the Swift Swim doubles Seismitoad's Speed under rain.
  • Life Orb is the used item because it significantly boosts Seismitoad's damaging moves which is appreciated because of Seismitoad's low Special Attack stat.
  • A Modest nature gives another boost to Seismitoad's Special Attack, but if Knock Off is ran, a Rash nature should be ran, because with Modest, you cannot 2HKO Latios and Latias.

Usage Tips
========

  • Fits best on Rain-teams because of the rain supporting Seismitoad to plow through opposing teams.
  • This Seismitoad is a good late-game cleaner, so try and remove the specially defensive Pokemon first before attempting a sweep.
  • Only sent it in to sweep when Rain is up, because then, Seismitoad's Speed will be doubled and otherwise foes can easily wear it down with their attacks. Also, senting it in when rain is up as soon as possible is good because Rain is only up for a limited amount of turns.
  • Seismitoad's solid typing lets it check offensive Fire- and Electric-types very well, so switching it into them is a decent idea to beat them.
  • Aim to set up hazards before attempting to sweep, because this will greatly help Seismitoad during its sweep.
  • Sending Seismitoad in with a slow Volt Switch or U-turn is good, as well as sending it in after a teammate has been KOed is good, because Seismitoad lacks reliable recovery and is easily worn down by repeated attacks.

Team Options
========

  • Politoed is by far Seismitoad's best teammate, because it can set up rain for Seismitoad with Drizzle, which is mandatory to have.
  • Other backup rain setters such as Thundurus make for good teammates too just in case Politoed faints if it's used as a teammate.
  • Hazard support from Pokemon such as Ferrothorn, Skarmory, and Celebi is very useful for Seismitoad for it to KO with more ease. Ferrothorn and Celebi also fit decent on rain teams because the rain weakens Fire-type attacks and the rain sweepers can all take out Fire-types.
  • Seismitoad works well with other rain sweepers such as Kabutops because Seismitoad can beat physically defensive Pokemon which trouble Kabutops. Kabutops can in return beat up specially defensive Pokemon such as Chansey.
  • Grass-type switch ins such as Thundurus and Tornadus-T make solid partners too. They both fit well on rain teams as well.
  • Seismitoad is troubled by bulky Water-types, so an Electric-type such as Tornadus and Magnezone are good teammates to beat them.
  • Bulky Dragon-types are a huge problem for Seismitoad, so Pokemon such as Mamoswine, Kyurem-B and Bisharp are great choices because they can beat these bulky Dragon-types.
  • Fighting-types such as Conkeldurr and Keldeo threaten Chansey and Blissey, both of which are problems for Seismitoad. Conkeldurr can restore HP from beating them with Drain Punch, while Keldeo can take advantage of the rain.
  • Seismitoad is great on sand teams, as it can set up Stealth Rocks, and wall Rotom-W which is a big problem for Sand Rush Excadrill


Other Options
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  • Refresh allows Seismitoad to completely shut down Rotom-W because it lets it cure the burn from Will-O-Wisp. It also helps it recover from other status, but, Seismitoad is better off using other utility moves.
  • Rain Dance lets Seismitoad set up rain for itself and sweep, but has only 5 turns to last because Seismitoad needs Life Orb, and with this, it also loses out on an important coverage attack.
  • Infestation could be used to trap the Pokemon Seismitoad checks, but since it usually forces them out already, it won't have much effect. It is also not very effective due to Seismitoad's lack of recovery.
  • Rest + Sleep Talk gives Seismitoad recovery, but this means it misses out on several coverage options, making it not good enough to warrant its own set.
  • A specially defensive spread can be run to check special attackers such as Landorus-I and Gengar, but a physically defensive set takes on much more Pokemon.
  • Investing 56 EVs into Attack is also an option as it allows Seismitoad to OHKO Mega Diancie 75% of the time after Stealth Rock, and 2HKO Mega Metagross all the time; however, this is quite situational and Seismitoad does not enjoy the loss in bulk.

Checks & Counters
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**Grass-types**: Because of Seismitoad's 4x weakness to Grass-type attacks, Grass-types such as Mega Venusaur, Serperior and Breloom can beat it. Breloom and Serperior are additionally resistant to Seismitoad's dual STAB.

**Bulky Water-types**: Bulky Water-types can also take Seismitoad's attacks quite easily and stall it out with poison or set up on it. Examples include Slowbro and Gastrodon.

**Bulky Dragon-types**: Bulky Dragon-types, such as Latias, Latios, and Goodra, have no trouble taking Seismitoad's attacks. However, the former two, Latias and Latios, should be wary of Knock Off.

**Offensive Pressure**: Due to Seismitoad's lack of recovery, offensive Pokemon such as Azumarill, Mega Gallade, and Gengar can take Seismitoad out by consistenly putting offensive pressure on Seismitoad. However, Azumarill and Mega Gallade are crippled by burns Scald can inflict.

**Status**: While an immunity to paralysis is very handy for Seismitoad, it is very susceptible to poison and burn, because they will easily wear it down.

**Specially Walls**: Chansey can take any hits from the offensive set and stall Seismitoad out. However, it is 2HKOed if its Eviolite has been removed. Mega Venusaur also can take Seismitoad's attacks and KO it while also recovering with Giga Drain. Latias can easily take Seismitoad's attacks, but must be wary of Knock Off.
 
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I would remove Chansey as a teammate: they fit on completely different playstyles, and Chansey tends to be a huge liability even on stall due to its extreme case of passivity. Replace Chansey with Jirachi, which checks Latios and Latias, in addition to Mega Venusaur, all of which annoy defensive Seismitoad.
 
I would remove Chansey as a teammate: they fit on completely different playstyles, and Chansey tends to be a huge liability even on stall due to its extreme case of passivity. Replace Chansey with Jirachi, which checks Latios and Latias, in addition to Mega Venusaur, all of which annoy defensive Seismitoad.
thanks I'll do that
 
On the defensive set I much prefer Knock Off to Toxic, as if you get a burn from Scald then the move becomes useless. On the same set I've also found much more utility in Bulldoze/Icy Wind than Earthquake. When you aren't investing in Attack, Earthquake's damage is paltry and more often than not I'd rather use Scald for the burn or Knock Off. Bulldoze however has created some great win situations for me. A Keldeo that tries to set up Calm Mind had his crucial speed lowered, meaning my Charizard had no trouble outspeeding even without a boost. Icy Wind performs similarly and can be used to greater effect in many cases since you don't have to worry about Levitate users and Flying types.

Anyway when I've used Seismetoad, he's been one of my favorite rock setters thanks to two immunities, and number of utility moves it has. Scald and Knock Off are so handy to have on the same mon. If its job is to soften up enemies for other stronger mon on your team, than it isn't a huge loss to substitute Earthquake for Bulldoze, in my experience.
 
On the defensive set I much prefer Knock Off to Toxic, as if you get a burn from Scald then the move becomes useless. On the same set I've also found much more utility in Bulldoze/Icy Wind than Earthquake. When you aren't investing in Attack, Earthquake's damage is paltry and more often than not I'd rather use Scald for the burn or Knock Off. Bulldoze however has created some great win situations for me. A Keldeo that tries to set up Calm Mind had his crucial speed lowered, meaning my Charizard had no trouble outspeeding even without a boost. Icy Wind performs similarly and can be used to greater effect in many cases since you don't have to worry about Levitate users and Flying types.

Anyway when I've used Seismetoad, he's been one of my favorite rock setters thanks to two immunities, and number of utility moves it has. Scald and Knock Off are so handy to have on the same mon. If its job is to soften up enemies for other stronger mon on your team, than it isn't a huge loss to substitute Earthquake for Bulldoze, in my experience.
bulldoze and icy wind sound pretty cool but I'll wait on some more QC input, I'll slash knock before toxic though
edit: also removed sludge wave on the defensive set, really dunno why it was there considering the most common grass switch ins are celebi and venusaur and ferrothorn; celebi and venu don't take that much from sludge wave and ferro is immune to it
 
I don't recall where the post is, but I'll repeat it here @_@. Earth Power is subpar in comparison to Earthquake, even with a Bold nature. 0- EQ outdamages 0 EP nearly every time. Another huge thing is Keldeo, which beats Seismitoad if it lacks Earthquake:

0- Atk Seismitoad Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Keldeo: 102-120 (31.5 - 37.1%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 Atk Seismitoad Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Keldeo: 112-133 (34.6 - 41.1%) -- 66.9% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

0 SpA Seismitoad Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Keldeo: 93-109 (28.7 - 33.7%) -- 97% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Seismitoad Earth Power vs. +1 0 HP / 4 SpD Keldeo: 61-73 (18.8 - 22.6%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery

I don't think Earth Power deserves a slash because it doesn't hit anything relevant that Earthquake doesn't, and the one relevant thing EQ is used for is missed out upon by running it.
 
I'd give a mention to investing 56 Attack EVs. This allows Seismitoad to OHKO Diancie with Earthquake after Stealth Rock 75% of the time (who doesn't 2HKO because lefties), and also allows you to 100% of the time 2HKO Metagross without Grass Knot (i.e. no defense lowering nature) regardless of Stealth Rock, as 0 EVs doesn't always 2HKO. The overall bulk lost is negligible and doesn't miss out on any safes from KOs. It's set details at most and a bit situational, but it's still a viable option.

With that, I'd put specially defensive in OO even if Seismitoad does a much better job checking physical attackers. Seismitoad has respectable special bulk and can check some special attackers. In fact, after leftovers recovery, Seismitoad is 3HKOed by Landorus's Earth Power while 2HKOing with Scald. You severely Seismitoad in the process, but removing such a threat is ridic good for any team. Of course, this spread does other things such as being only 3HKOed by Life Orb Gengar while having a chance to OHKO back with Knock Off. However this is an underwhelming set most of the time because it misses out on many more things physically than specially and and many special attackers have ways to wear it down.

Note in the overview Seismitoad's niches over other bulky Water-types, mainly Gastrodon - Knock Off, better physical bulk than Gastro (gastro is better specially), fits better on non-stall, and a higher speed stat. Seismitoad's generally better in most cases but Gastrodon has multiple niches such as Recover, Counter, and even as far as Ice Beam.

Probably put Bisharp in Team Options to deter Defog that tries to get rid of Stealth Rock. They also both happen to have good synergy together, with Seismitoad taking Fire-type attacks for Bisharp while Bisharp takes Grass-type attacks. The only problem is that Bisharp might not fit as well on the teams Seismi is on, so take it as you will.
 
did everything besides bisharp because seismitoad is more commonly found on defensively oriented teams whereas bisharp is found on HO and offensive teams
 
knock off is the main slash though and it's not like bold helps you outspeed anything relevant (at least not that I know of)
 
Bold lets you outspeed uninvested Politoed, uninvested Skarmory, and CB Azumarill (though for Azu that's Speed creep so don't mention it). Not sure how useful those are, but that's all I can think of right now.
 
i guess in team options, it would be good to mention that it works well with sand coz it walls rotom, a huge issue to sand rush exca and also gets up rocks letting ttar play a more offensive role. it's a true teamplayer
 
Change to new analysis format please.
Water Absorb is the chosen ability to provide a valuable immunity to Water-type moves and makes Seismitoad a solid check to them.
In the context of the general offensive waters I'm pretty sure you're not actually going to be checking them more so pivoting into their water moves. Seismitoad isn't a Keldeo, Manaphy, Gyarados, M-Gyarados, etc. check so this isn't exactly true. You can pretty much lose to most waters in the tier so remove that it checks them cause it doesn't.
Maximum EV investment in HP and Defense and a Relaxed nature allow for as much physical bulk as possible to take on offensive Pokemon such as non-Grass Knot Metagross, Dragon Dance Altaria and Charizard, Mega Lopunny and Keldeo.
Might want to explain more exactly how going fully defensive truly benefits it, which isn't what I'm reading now. M-Altaria will just set up on you and win, Grass Knot M-Metagross is still common enough to where it's not even going to check it, I wouldn't even put Zard as something it beats unless you somehow managed to maintain Seismitoad 100% cause you autolose to Zard-Y and +1 Zard-X still can put a huge dent in you. Mega Lopunny just clicks PuP then hits you with HJK and Specs Secret Sword Keldeo hurts. You're not really elaborating on what sort of pivoting utility going defensive provides so that needs to be expanded on.

Team Options:
Additionally, they all appreciate the Stealth Rock support Seismitoad gives.
This is redundant, every pokemon appreciates this support remove this.
Steel-types such as Bisharp, Ferrothorn, and Skarmory make for good partners because Seismitoad completely stops their biggest check in Magnezone. Bisharp, in particular, is good because it punishes the Defog users with Defiant, and Ferrothorn can complete the hazards. They also appreciate Seismitoad switching into Fire-type attacks with relative ease.
This honestly makes 0 sense. It's just explaining what each of these do in general but doesn't actually provide any details as to how it benefits Seismitoad and barely even scratches the surface of what type of synergy they provide.
Seismitoad is troubled by bulky Water-types, so an Electric-type such as Tornadus and Magnezone are good teammates to beat them.
Tornadus or Thundurus?
Refresh allows Seismitoad to completely shut down Rotom-W because it lets it cure the burn from Will-O-Wisp. It also helps it recover from other status, but, Seismitoad is better off using other utility moves.
Infestation could be used to trap the Pokemon Seismitoad checks, but since it usually forces them out already, it won't have much effect. It is also not very effective due to Seismitoad's lack of recovery.
Rest + Sleep Talk gives Seismitoad recovery, but this means it misses out on several coverage options, making it not good enough to warrant its own set.
Lol remove these.

Rain Set

Bulky Dragon-types are a huge problem for Seismitoad, so Pokemon such as Mamoswine, Kyurem-B and Bisharp are great choices because they can beat these bulky Dragon-types.
I mean....Bisharp can sort of catch the Latis but it's not like it's going to beat stuff like Garchomp. Which bulky dragon in particular? You just used a blanket statement then bunched up three things together and assumed that the reader will have an idea what you're implying.

Team options on the defensive set just need work. You sort of just listed random partners for the sake of type synergy and not so much effectiveness in correlation to the meta.
Set-up sweepers such as Mega Charizard X, Breloom and Scizor appreciate Seismitoad spreading burns with Scald, and can use this as an opportunity to set up. They also have relatively good synergy with Seismitoad.
Avoid such broad statements that provide little to no detail of anything. Work on this.
 
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