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Mix-and-Mega — Now with Primals!
- Thread starter FlameUser64
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The #1 reason aggronite would be so good on slowbro is that you can't be toxic stalled. This is honestly the easiest way to beat it, and now that's not an option. Also, It's more specially bulky overall, and it takes less damage from SE moves (the only other real option to bring it down), including physical ones thanks to filter. Psychic is still weak to bug, aside from what you already said, which I could see being quite prevalent in this meta. And close combat and earthquakes probs won't be enough, depending on the spread. Plus, physical attackers still fear scald burns. So those two are even shaky answers. Again, filter makes you effectively physically bulkier than regular Megabro.
I could see aggronite Slowbro making an incredible core w/ Lugia as well, in case a specific niche was necessary to prove my point. The two would walk everything when used in tandem.
Edit: I just want to stop to acknowledge how many votes this got for OMotM- 21 is pretty freaking good, if I do say so myself! Not sure why it went to 2v2 doubles... Or any doubles format. -.- (I'm not flamin- I just can't stand doubles). But that's 3rd overall, and it seems to be gaining popularity! Let's hope it makes it next month! \^_^/ I'm seriously hella pumped rn.
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252 Atk Adaptability (Lucarionite) Terrakion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Filter (Aggronite) Slowbro: 267-315 (67.7 - 79.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
I'll acknowledge the Burn point, but you're discounting the sheer power offensive threats can bring to bear. Heck, look at this:
252+ SpA (Pidgeotite) Lucario Focus Blast vs. +1 252 HP / 0 SpD Filter (Aggronite) Slowbro: 276-325 (70 - 82.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA (Pidgeotite) Lucario Focus Blast vs. +1 252 HP / 252+ SpD Filter (Aggronite) Slowbro: 199-235 (50.5 - 59.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Look at that! Pidgeotite Lucario can 2HKO Specially Defensive Aggronite Slowbro through one Calm Mind. And it gets Nasty Plot! If Slowbro isn't Calm Minded and isn't Specially Defensive, this is a reliable OHKO! And obviously Burn ain't nothing to it.
And no, it's not afraid of a Scald in raw damage.
4 SpA (Aggronite) Slowbro Scald vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD (Pidgeotite) Lucario: 103-123 (36.6 - 43.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
To follow up on the Terrakion vs Slowbro calc:
252 Atk Adaptability (Lucarionite) Terrakion Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Multiscale Lugia: 158-186 (37.9 - 44.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Note that this means it's a clean 2HKO, because the second hit won't be bothered by Multiscale. You're not necessarily pulling off switching Lugia in on Terrakion from Slowbro!
So no, not really. I dunno why people have gone from assuming stall is useless to assuming stall is omgwtfbbq unstoppable, but seriously, the meta has almost no actual play thus far.
Doubles is best format.
2v2 Doubles is lame.
Next month would be good! Wanted it this month, but then again I've been busy lately and look to be busy for a bit, so maybe it's for the best -maybe I'lll have more time to play this next month.
I guess I didn't consider Terrak, it's basically lost all relevance in OU, so I just forgot about it. And just because 2 mons share a common weakness, doesn't mean they don't work well together. Most cores still have a weakness.
And I never honestly thought stall would be ridiculous or pathetic. It seemed to me that it would be totally viable from the beginning, and my oppinion hasn't really changed.
Not to start an argument, I just hate defensive psychic types. If steel is an option instead, I'd tend to go with that.
So, I've been working on a rain team core because I believe people said something about weather being bad in this meta, so I'm out to prove them wrong.
Kyogre @ Damp Rock
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD
Modest Nature
- Origin Pulse
- Ice Beam
- Thunder
- Scald
A standard rain setter for the team. Keep it healthy and it should perform well. Spam scald if you predict a switch into a defensive mon' otherwise use your coverage options.
Thundurus (M) @ Manectite
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Volt Switch/nasty plot
- Hidden Power [Ice]/taunt/thunder wave
- Focus Blast
- Thunderbolt
Meet mega manectric 2.0 with a better typing, stats, and a pretty nice movepool. Thundy here was chosen for its good typing and awesome movepool, allowing it to perform multiple roles. The real reason I chose it however is its ability to beat blue orb ferrothorn. Chgose what moves you use wisely.
Gyarados @ Swampertite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Waterfall
- Earthquake
- Crunch
Meet one of the most terrifying rain sweepers you will ever have the displeasure of meeting. With solid 95/94/115 bulk this thing can easily set up a quick DD after an intimidate drop and be completely ubcatchable in the rain. There is probably a better EV spread, but I'm not great at finding those. Anyways, it easily sets up, sweeps easily and hits VERY hard.
Latias (F) @ Alakazite
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Defog
- Healing Wish
- Draco Meteor
- Psyshock
Latias patches this core up very nicely, providing helpful resists to grass and electric while providing defog utility. Its bulk is quite good at 80/110/130 and its offenses are not bad at all with 80/150/140 being very solid. Trace shenanagans can also come into play.
Potential teammates:
A hazard setter is always appreciated. Blue orb Ferro comes to mind as it can also reset your weather for you and provide excellent resists.
Backup rain setters are also appreciated.
Rain abusers can fit in, especially ones that can abuse the powerful STABS granted by rain, or the perfect accuracy for hurricane/thunder.(dragonite anyone?)
Wish passers to keep ogre healthy are also well loved by this core.
Well, that's it please rate it and use it!
Up next, a sand core/team. Then, BULKY AF OFFENSE.
Kyogre @ Damp Rock
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD
Modest Nature
- Origin Pulse
- Ice Beam
- Thunder
- Scald
A standard rain setter for the team. Keep it healthy and it should perform well. Spam scald if you predict a switch into a defensive mon' otherwise use your coverage options.
Thundurus (M) @ Manectite
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Volt Switch/nasty plot
- Hidden Power [Ice]/taunt/thunder wave
- Focus Blast
- Thunderbolt
Meet mega manectric 2.0 with a better typing, stats, and a pretty nice movepool. Thundy here was chosen for its good typing and awesome movepool, allowing it to perform multiple roles. The real reason I chose it however is its ability to beat blue orb ferrothorn. Chgose what moves you use wisely.
Gyarados @ Swampertite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Waterfall
- Earthquake
- Crunch
Meet one of the most terrifying rain sweepers you will ever have the displeasure of meeting. With solid 95/94/115 bulk this thing can easily set up a quick DD after an intimidate drop and be completely ubcatchable in the rain. There is probably a better EV spread, but I'm not great at finding those. Anyways, it easily sets up, sweeps easily and hits VERY hard.
Latias (F) @ Alakazite
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Defog
- Healing Wish
- Draco Meteor
- Psyshock
Latias patches this core up very nicely, providing helpful resists to grass and electric while providing defog utility. Its bulk is quite good at 80/110/130 and its offenses are not bad at all with 80/150/140 being very solid. Trace shenanagans can also come into play.
Potential teammates:
A hazard setter is always appreciated. Blue orb Ferro comes to mind as it can also reset your weather for you and provide excellent resists.
Backup rain setters are also appreciated.
Rain abusers can fit in, especially ones that can abuse the powerful STABS granted by rain, or the perfect accuracy for hurricane/thunder.(dragonite anyone?)
Wish passers to keep ogre healthy are also well loved by this core.
Well, that's it please rate it and use it!
Up next, a sand core/team. Then, BULKY AF OFFENSE.
Or I can use this to get Pokemon with types and abilities that I want instead of making practical things.
Luxray @ Gyaradosite
Ability: Intimidate
- Wild Charge
- Crunch
- Thunder Wave
- Volt Switch
Electric Dark with 80/150/109/105/109/70 With Mold Breaker afterwards. It gets pretty dang good bulk and 150 attack is plenty to not invest entirely. It also has more move options(Stab Snarl comes to mind) but I think that I would want the slow switch.
>3> <3<
Typhlosion @ Lopunnite
Fire Fighting 78/144/88/109/85/130 with Scrappy focus punches/power-up punch... I am just playing around with this one, but I think it is hilarious and has plenty of physical coverage to attempt.
Also anything with Alakazamite with trace, trace is superb in a format when most things have good abilities.
Luxray @ Gyaradosite
Ability: Intimidate
- Wild Charge
- Crunch
- Thunder Wave
- Volt Switch
Electric Dark with 80/150/109/105/109/70 With Mold Breaker afterwards. It gets pretty dang good bulk and 150 attack is plenty to not invest entirely. It also has more move options(Stab Snarl comes to mind) but I think that I would want the slow switch.
>3> <3<
Typhlosion @ Lopunnite
Fire Fighting 78/144/88/109/85/130 with Scrappy focus punches/power-up punch... I am just playing around with this one, but I think it is hilarious and has plenty of physical coverage to attempt.
Also anything with Alakazamite with trace, trace is superb in a format when most things have good abilities.
I was talking as a broad trend. Up to about page 15 or thereabouts the general conviction was that stall was underpowered and would be unviable, and then suddenly the overall attitude flipped to "omg look at these insane stall threats". It's weird.
Unless you specifically want Trace, I'd generally avoid Alakazite. It's only +90 BST, compared to the usual +100, and comparable stat boosts include Absolite (Boosts Attack instead of Defense, but has the same Special Attack boost and a bigger Speed boost, not to mention the amazing Magic Bounce), Manectite (10 less Special Attack, but otherwise equals Alakazite in every stat boost, provides 20 Special Defense, and has the excellent Intimidate), Pidgeotite (Less Defense and Speed, but monstrous Special Attack and provides No Guard), or maybe Sceptilite. (5 less Speed, same Special Attack, 10 less Defense, wastes the other points on Attack, and Dragon typing+Lightning Rod is somewhat silly, but could be situationally preferable anyway) Manectite in particular is almost a flat improvement with a much more useful Ability, particularly for a Pokemon who is liable to either switch in and out a lot for Defog purposes or suicide with Healing Wish -having Intimidated the enemy in the process is further help to the Healing Wish recipient.
As far as Gyarados goes, I'd completely skip Speed EVs for maximum bulk/offense. Just being in Rain alone is enough to outspeed Speed-natured base 150 Pokemon, and after a Dragon Dance they can't even be Scarfed to pull ahead -a base 200 wouldn't outspeed without a Scarf! What exactly is going to outspeed Swampertite Gyarados in the Rain without using priority outright?
I'm not clear why a Rain Thundurus is carrying around Thunderbolt. Why not Thunder? Other than that I don't have much to say about it, in part because I'm not clear its exact role in the team beyond beating Blue Orb Ferrothorn.
I honestly don't think there's actually a good Mega Stone for turning Dragonite into the Special Rain abuser it wants to be. The best Stone for the job is Pidgeotite, and it invalidates the need for Rain to support Thunder and Hurricane! Mind, Pidgeotite Dragonite could be interesting regardless just because it also gets Blizzard, giving it ridiculous Special Flying STAB (Unseen outside of Yveltal in Standard) and hilariously powerful, reliable boltbeam.
An obvious Rain Wish passer is Alomomola. It can be left un-Mega-ed for Regenerator Wish passing, and carry a good defensive Mega Stone for later in the match/when you need Magic Bounce or whatever you've given it (I'm thinking Sablenite here, but a case could be made for Audinite for the nifty Water/Fairy typing. Note that its Special Defense is much worse than its Defense, so Slowbronite would be sub-optimal unless you wanted it to be Physically Defensive or something), and in any event it can spam Rain-boosted Scalds.
As I said above, I'd tend to avoid Alakazite. The stat boosts are almost directly inferior to Manectite due to providing 10 less BST, and there's not actually that many Abilities on Megas that you'd want to Trace, or at least Trace in a reliable way. (It'd be neat to have Alakazite Mantine Trace Lightning Rod from a Sceptilite Pokemon, but that's very specific) Houndoomite and to a lesser extent Swampertite are the main exceptions I can think of -Intimidate is generally going to be found on Special attackers in Mix and Mega- since if the enemy is using them they presumably have the weather up and ready for you to abuse, and both fit snugly with typical Alakazite abusers.
Interesting gimmick ideas though. I find Luxray somewhat questionable for Gyaradosite -Thundurus basically blows it out of the water, especially if it manages to snag a Defiant boost before Mega Evolving- but it is the single hardest hitting Electric type with Crunch (Well, barring Zekrom, but it's an Uber), albeit only barely, so maybe it'll have a niche. Typhlosion mostly seems silly, but its Physical movepool is impressive, it appreciates the Speed, and resistance to Stealth Rock is not bad.
I was thinking, perhaps full HO or stall wouldn't be the best option here. There are some absolutely insane threats on either end of the spectrum that will be difficult to prepare for with either one. For example, blissey (as stated many times) is gonna give offense some crap w/ out something w/ some way to outstall it. Subtoxic gyaradosite Jirachi might work, it's probs not the best tho. Actually, mew could do the job. In fact, it could be pretty good at it. Dark and psychic only has 2 weaknesses, one of which is bug, so the u-turn weakness hurts, but fairy is probs more of an issue. I don't know what else I was gonna say, it's getting late. I'll post anything else I may think of. Goodnight people. May the fourth be with you all.
Well, it's been two days, so double post incoming. I know that the OM room is probs a better place to find battles, but I just wanted to say that I'm down if anyone wants to battle- just pm me or post something on my profile. That way we can plan on a specific time to battle.
I've been trying to get onto Aqua for the past few days but all I've been getting is server connection errors. Where else can you play this? I'm cool to battle anyone (available for the next 40-50 minutes from this post).
Aqua is down until Sunday as Snaquaza is away and can't host it while he's gone
One question: People have been talking about Pinsirite Jirachi and how good it is with it's Steel/Flying typing. Isn't Jirachi Psychic/Steel thus Pinsirite making is Psychic/Flying? Same thing with the Gyaradosite/Ampharosite Nidoking (Ground/Dark instead of Poison/Dark and Ground/Dragon instead of Poison/Dragon?)
Looked it up on Bulbapedia and you are indeed right. Smogon Dex is apparantly giving wrong information...
We really need to spark some discussion for this thread so.... does anyone have any ideas whatsoever?
also, for relevance, some sets:
Cresselia (F) @ Cameruptite
Ability: Levitate
120/100/150/115/160/55
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD
Modest Nature
- Moonlight
- Psychic
- Calm Mind
- Moonblast/ Heal Bell/ toxic/ Thunder Wave/ Ice Beam
A bulky set up sweeper that can hit hard right off the bat with essentially 150 sp. attack. even better, its last move slot is completely open for whatever you want!
Staraptor @ Aerodactylite
Ability: Intimidate
85/150/90/60/80/120
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Brave Bird
- Return
- Close Combat
- U-turn
A simple hard hitter with a delightful pre-mega intimidate.
Pangoro @ Banettite
Ability: Mold Breaker
95/174/88/79/91/68
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Taunt
- Parting Shot
- Superpower
- Crunch
Bannetite pangoro, why? because priority momentum gaining. not to mention mold breaker taunt.
also, for relevance, some sets:
Cresselia (F) @ Cameruptite
Ability: Levitate
120/100/150/115/160/55
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD
Modest Nature
- Moonlight
- Psychic
- Calm Mind
- Moonblast/ Heal Bell/ toxic/ Thunder Wave/ Ice Beam
A bulky set up sweeper that can hit hard right off the bat with essentially 150 sp. attack. even better, its last move slot is completely open for whatever you want!
Staraptor @ Aerodactylite
Ability: Intimidate
85/150/90/60/80/120
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Brave Bird
- Return
- Close Combat
- U-turn
A simple hard hitter with a delightful pre-mega intimidate.
Pangoro @ Banettite
Ability: Mold Breaker
95/174/88/79/91/68
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Taunt
- Parting Shot
- Superpower
- Crunch
Bannetite pangoro, why? because priority momentum gaining. not to mention mold breaker taunt.
I'd suggest Hammer Arm instead of Superpower. You don't get attack drops and in a really dire situation you can still priority Parting Shot out.
Sablenite/Slowbronite/Aggronite Blissey are tough, but there are threats that can power right through them, and that fit right into a Hyper Offense playstyle. Anything based around Toxic is hard-stopped by Aggronite Blissey, too. The primary issue with Hyper Offense vs these stall threats is what Hyper Offense always has to deal with when facing full-on Stall -if they can just keep switching back and forth between a Physical wall and a Special wall anytime you bring out whatever can kill the other, they can wear you down with hazards, Toxic, etc.
But Blissey itself is completely manageable. (And note that Aggronite Blissey, while immune to Toxic, is doubly weak to Fighting -even taking into account Filter, it still takes x3 damage from Fighting moves)
In general threats on both end are more extreme, but there's also strange middle-ground threats that are bizarrely bulky for their Speed or tough for their offensive potential or whatever. This is going to be an odd meta all-around.
I'm not sure where you're getting "effectively 150 Special Attack" for Cameruptite Cresselia...
Keep in mind Metagrossite is another option for Staraptor. It's less Attack, but more Speed. Or you could take Lucarionite -it's less Speed than Aerodactylite and won't boost Close Combat and U-Turn, but your STABs will hit harder between the slightly higher Attack boost and the bigger damage boost from Adaptability.
Well, as far as discussion possibilities goes, I'm personally curious as to what Tyranitarite abusers are going to show up. Cradily seems like an obvious one, but maybe there's better choices out there. It's too bad there's no Rock, Ground, or Steel type Weather Ball users...
Or how about: are there any Pokemon other than Blissey that get enormous value out of Slowbronite? That is, good/great HP Pokemon with poor Defense... or a Physical wall that becomes nightmarish to take down?
I'm also finding it amusing how Pangoro actually has a decent array of choices here. In addition to being an excellent Banettite abuser, it's also one of three Pokemon that gets Storm Throw (The others being Pinsir and Throh), which makes it a potentially interesting Scizorite abusers (Storm Throw being effectively 90 BP and yet still benefiting from Technician for a total effective BP of 135. Yikes!), or it could make for an OK Loponnite abuser, in addition to the more straightforward Adaptability/Tough Claws/etc choices.
Or here's another discussion point: which do you think will be more of a difficult decision? Which Pokemon to grant a given valuable Mega Stone, or which Mega Stone to grant a particularly flexible, excellent Pokemon? We've talked about some Pokemon having multiple excellent Mega Stones (Blissey, lately) but we've also talked about Mega Stones that are great on a ton of Pokemon. (Sablenite, Aggronite, Lopunnite, Gyradosite) Do you think teambuilding will be more "I want to have 3 Blisseys! Why must I choose just one Mega Stone for it??" or more "I want to give Sablenite to half my team! Why must I choose just one Pokemon??"
Aggronite Blissey is not immune to toxic lol
yes it is. aggron goes from rock steel to pure steel, so the code adds steel where rock once was, making it normal/steel.
This is probably pointless regardless, but can we buff lati@site to no change ability and just boost stats?
On that last point, I think this is is where the "bad" stones such as Alakazamite come into play. For example, Audinite and even Latiasite or Maanecite Blissey might be a thing due to how good the other defensive stones are on other stallmons.
Audinite blissey actually might not be bad, it adds fairy and great bulk, albeit a trash ability. It could be used to run some sort of gimmicky skill swap thing to mess w/ stuff, just for kicks. And Latiasite is incredible on heatran- giving it the ground in immunity it longs for, but no need for air balloon. It lacks recovery, but so did air balloon tran, and it gets substantially improved bulk. It's really like standard offensive air balloon tran in OU. And Manectite is awesome on basically any special sweeper, wall w/ better SpA than Atk, pivot, support, etc. Latias would LOVE it. It would be way better than regular ou Latias in basically any role, however, soul dew may just be better.
I can't remember- can someone remind me what the decision was concerning dragon ascent? It would be absolutely insane on soul dew latios. If that wasn't already banned, it needs to be.
Aggronite:
Atk +30, Def +50, Sp. Def +20, lose secondary typing, gain Filter, increase weight by 35 kg
Thats not how it works according to the OP, and unless you can show me the code you can't really use that point against me
Dragon Ascent can only be used by the mons capable of learning it--so Smeargle, since Mega Ray is banned.
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