ORAS OU My OU team has had a lot of success but is struggling with certain pokemon. Detailed Post!

Rate My Team
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Intro

I have played numerous competitive battles over the past week with this team and I have had actually quite a lot of success but there are some major issues.

I am going to list each of my Pokemon and give you a description of the role it plays in my team and then I will explain the problems I am having at the end.

The Team
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Talonflame @ Choice Band - The revenge killer
Ability: Gale wings
Evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Me First
- Brave Bird
- Flare Blitz
- U-Turn

Description
Talonflame is mainly used as my revenge killer. When one of my team dies he is usually bought in to clean up. Choice banded Brave Bird does stupid amounts of damage and combined with gale wings makes Talonflame a force to be reckoned with. It also breaks past scarf users. U-Turn is primarily there to give me switch priority. Say when I bring Talonflame in and I know the person wants to save their scarfed Jolteon I will predict and use U-Turn to give me switch priority. Flare Blitz is used for coverage allowing me to OHKO most steel types and do decent damage to a lot of switch ins. Me First is there mainly as a filler, occasionally it gets an insane KO using it on an outrage Garchomp but that's about as far as its usefulness goes.


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Landorous @ Leftovers - Defensive stealth rock
Ability: Intimidate
Evs: 252 HP / 240 Def / 8 SpD / 8 Spe
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rocks
- Earthquake
- Knock Off
- U-Turn

Description
Landorous is used as a physical wall and is generally used to pivot into physical attackers who don't have a water/ice attack. Stealth Rocks is needed because my team forces a lot of switches, I have 3 U-Turners and 1 Volt Switcher, this constantly gives me priority and forces my opponents to switch and react to my team allowing me to get chip damage and preventing them from bringing anything weak to rocks in too many times. Earthquake is there for stab and hits very hard even though I am defensively oriented. Knock Off is there to remove Left Overs/Black Sludge/Scarfs/Anything damn annoying and also hits quite hard on pokemon such as Gengar who may predict an earthquake and switch in. U-Turn is there to provide me with switch priority if I predict or because I am very slow allows me to safely bring in offensive threats such as Talonflame.

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Rotom Wash @ Chesto Berry - Specially defensive pivot
Ability: Levitate
Evs: 252 HP/ 252 SpD / 4 Def
Calm Nature
- Volt Switch
- Hydro Pump
- Will-O-Wisp
- Rest

Description
This guy is my specially defensive wall. Him being specially defensive kind of sucks because he doesn't wall offensive threats like Talonflame as well as he should but Landorous can handle Talonflame. It's specially defensive for the likes of special fire users as Scizor and Landorous can't handle them. Volt Switch is used again as part of my pivot core allowing me to get switch priority and its a strong stab move for water types as I have very little offensive threats too bulky water types. Hydro Pump is to hit hard to any Pokemon that are weak to it and if you predict they'll switch into a ground type predicting the Volt Switch. Will-O-Wisp is used to cripple physical attackers but my Rotom is specially defensive so he shouldn't be switched into any attackers, but Will-O-Wisp Rotom is a common set and can deter physical attackers from switching in. Rest is there to effectively give me a second life and remove any status which in turn allows me to switch into any potential status moves for my team.

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Mega Scizor @ Scizorite - Mixed defensive defogger
Ability: Technician
Evs: 242 HP / 60 Def / 200 SpD
Impish Nature
- Defog
- Roost
- Bullet Punch
- U-Turn

Description
Stealth rocks cripples my talon flame. It prevents me from switching it out multiple times via U-Turn or swapping hence the inclusion of defog. Due to Scizors bulk and defensive typing I can pretty much switch in at any point and use defog, noticeable problems though are stealth rock Heatran though because I can't switch in to it and I only have one offensive water move on my team. Roost is there to give me reliable recovery and allow me to be a nuisance all game long. Bullet punch gives me some offensive threat and U-Turn is used to allow me to switch in team mates safely or when I predict a fire Pokemon coming in.

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Latios @ Choice Scarf - Revenge killer
Ability: Levitate
Evs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid
- Draco Meteor
- Psyshock
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power Fire

Description
Latios is a great revenge killer as he already has great base speed and when this is combined with choice scarf this allows him to out speed common scarf users. Draco meteor OHKOes pretty much any offensive Pokemon that doesn't resist it. Thunderbolt is there because my team lacks any real electric damage and gets walled by bulky water types. Hidden Power Fire is there to cover steel types and Psyshock is there for coverage and deals with some walls like Mega Vensaur.

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Gengar @ Life Orb - Supposed to stop walls but doesn't really do anything
Ability: Levitate
Evs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid
- Sludge Bomb
- Shadow Ball
- Taunt
- Focus Blast

Description
Gengar was intended to be a wall breaker on my team, he would switch into to a wall taunt it or predict the switch and use an offensive move but what generally happens is they don't have any stall Pokemon but if they do it has a move that got one shot Gengar. Taunt is there to stop walls allows me to switch in on Chansey etc and go for a taunt or offensive move if I predict the switch. Shadow ball is there for stab and covers most types neutrally and deals decent damage to a lot of Pokemon. Focus blast to cover normal and fighting types as Talonflame is the only other Pokemon I have that can do decent damage to a bulky fighting type. Sludge Bomb is there for fairies and grass types.

My Problems
Status is a massive problem for me. Scizor and Landorous normally get switched in on walls and physical attackers where they can set up rocks/remove them or try get as much damage off as possible but as soon as they get burned they are only useful as tanks. They have no status inducing moves and do very little damage to any Pokemon. Landorous can still prove effective due to knock off but Scizor will only be kept around if they have any Stealth Rock users but pretty much ends up just spamming recover.

Fighting types are a MASSIVE PROBLEM! I have to switch in Talonflame which I cant do because it's too frail or I can switch in Scizor/Landorous. The problem is a lot of fighting types rock out Ice Punch or Fire Punch and Scizor/Landorous can't take either of them which effectively leaves Rotom is *sigh specially defensive and can't take a drain punch.

My Gengar is also another problem for me. He is there to primarily break walls and has been very effective when the enemy team has sub Gliscor/Breloom. The problem arises when he can't out speed shit and gets one shot. He gets bopped by any scarfed user and he doesn't seem to have a real noticeable impact as he dies for nothing a lot of the time.

Heatran is a major problem for me. Rotom is my only bet to deal with him and depending on the Heatran set he might not last that long. I can't switch Scizor in to Defog rocks while he is on the field and Landorous can't tank offensive based ones. I also have only one fighting move, water move and ground move in my team and only the Rotom can switch in but as its not specially offensive it does very little damage.

Bulky water types are another problem for me because only Latios and Rotom can deal with them but Rotom doesn't even do that much damage to them and when they see I have thunderbolt on Latios they switch a lot. It ends up coming down to multiple switches and me waiting for them to die of burn unless they have a rest Swampert then fuck you (Has happened but thankfully Latios got a crit draco). Also fuk Empoleon. His scald hurts landorous badly can't switch in for earth quake. Scizor can tank but gets burned eventually I'll switch in Latios but he will just swap. Rotom tickles him.

Rotom Wash also walls me as I have no grass moves to deal with it and it ends up becoming which Rotom can out last the other and I can't switch in Landorous for the knock off for fear of hydro pump and Will-O-Wisp and Scizor can't come in to the Will-O-Wisp either and he walls my Talonflame.

How I See It Can Be Fixed
I think I may need to replace some of my defensive core. would like to keep Stealth Rocks and Defog/Rapid Spin but due to the typing's some will need to be replaced (Although I love the whole U-turn/Volt Switch team). I was thinking of Magic Guard Clefable instead of Rotom as it could switch into status attack easily that might threaten Scizor and Landorous and it could actually tank special Pokemon much easier. Sylveon is another option as it is more bulky then Clefable and gets access to heal bell which could revitalise Landorous/Scizor.

I may also need a new Stealth Rock/Defog/Rapid Spin core due to Landorous and Scizors weakness to fighting types with elemental punches but I have though of suggestions like Mandibuzz instead of Scizor but that is another ice weakness and no mega.

I would like an status setter like Sabeleye or Klefki but I would have to forgoe rocks or defog which I can't do on my team unless you can think of anything. Sabeleye would be good to cripple offensive attackers and paired with Magic Guard Clefable or Sylveon they could switch into each others weaknesses. Klefki could potentially paralyse anything out speeding Gengar (Like mega Lopunny) but I would have to swap out Scizor because of the double fire weakness that would come from his inclusion. I would also have to replace Gengar with some one faster and potentially has access to a grass or thunder move. Greninja was my first choice but he got moved to Ubers.

All In All I Need Help!
Any and all help is appreciated. Sorry for the long long post but I seriously appreciate it if you read and contribute ;D
 
Importable here
Talonflame @ Choice Band
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Me First
- Brave Bird
- Flare Blitz
- U-Turn

Gengar (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Shadow Ball
- Sludge Wave
- Focus Blast
- Taunt

Landorus-Therian @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 240 Def / 8 SpD / 8 Spe
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Knock Off
- U-Turn

Rotom-Wash @ Chesto Berry
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
- Volt Switch
- Hydro Pump
- Will-O-Wisp
- Rest

Scizor @ Scizorite
Ability: Technician
EVs: 242 HP / 60 Def / 200 SpD
Impish Nature
- Defog
- Roost
- Bullet Punch
- U-Turn

Latios @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Psyshock
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Fire]

Ok first things first is I have added an importable to your team. It took me about 10 minutes just to get the team formatted correctly, so please proof things like Landorous Landorus-Therian and Rotom Wash Rotom-Wash! It makes teams easier to rate. :)

Now that I have had a second look at the team, it seems you have a lot of threats covered pretty well. There are some problem pokes that this team definitely does not want to see, though.

The biggest concern I would have with the team is with Electric- types such as Thundurus, Mega-Manectric, and Raikou. Once any of these three get a free switch in, Rotom-Wash is going to get worn down with Thunderbolt / Volt Switch. Nothing really wants to switch in on Specs Keldeo, either.

Stall teams with Chansey and/or Mandibuzz are issues as well, because nothing on your team can 2HKO them without taking recoil or status risk.

Before addressing any of these threats, let's talk about what this team is trying to accomplish. It's trying to prevent opponents from setting up by revenging with Talonflame and Latios while keeping momentum with a volt turn core. That means it's not a good idea to switch Talonflame or Latios into fighting types at all. Use Lando-T for that. Or Scizor if Lando-T is low on health. And for momentum purposes, I would rather have Pain Split + Leftovers on Rotom-Wash than Chestorest. Rotom-Wash should also have 44 Speed EVs to outspeed max Speed Azumarill.

I actually like the volt turn core here, especially with Talonflame covering any potential setup sweepers with Choice Band Brave Bird. The issue is what is the U-Turning and Volt Swiching trying to set up here? The beauty with this team is that Rotom-Wash, Lando-T, and Scizor are slow enough to take a hit and get something in that doesn't normally get in and suddenly the opponent is in huge trouble. The question is, what is that "something?" I think an Analytic Starmie would be a great replacement over Gengar. Because Voltturn teams cause so many switches, Starmie can get a boost by moving last without the punishment of taking a hit. Starmie can also spin away hazards for Talonflame, which is nice to have in addition with Scizor as a Defogger. It can also deal with fighting types, Heatran, Keldeo, and Mandibuzz without opening up too many other weaknesses. You could try Natural Cure for status, but I would try Analytic first.

Starmie @ Life Orb
Ability: Analytic
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Psyshock
- Rapid Spin

If you want to make this switch, you can also change Scizor to a Bulky SD set as Mur suggested in a below post. This would provide for a nice win condition, something you really don't have at the moment other than Talonflame. Scizor can also set up on SD Bisharp, which is another problem poke for the team.

Scizor @ Scizorite
Ability: Technician
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 248 HP / 84 Def / 176 SpD
Impish Nature
- Bullet Punch
- Bug Bite / Knock Off works, too!
- Roost
- Swords Dance

I'm not sure Latios needs a Scarf on this team. It's nice to check Megazard-X at +1 and Keldeo, but it also loses a ton of momentum. I would try CM Clefable here instead. It gives you a chance to absorb status from bulky waters and attacks from Electric-types such as Thundurus, Manectric-Mega, and Raikou. I would stick with the standard set here, as it really rounds out the team quite nicely.

Clefable @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 172 Def / 84 SpD
Calm Nature
- Calm Mind
- Moonblast
- Soft-Boiled
- Flamethrower

Hope that helps! Here is the team with the changes:

Talonflame @ Choice Band
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Me First
- Brave Bird
- Flare Blitz
- U-Turn

Starmie @ Life Orb
Ability: Analytic
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Psyshock
- Rapid Spin

Landorus-Therian @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 240 Def / 8 SpD / 8 Spe
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Knock Off
- U-Turn

Rotom-Wash @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
- Volt Switch
- Hydro Pump
- Will-O-Wisp
- Pain Split

Scizor @ Scizorite
Ability: Technician
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 248 HP / 84 Def / 176 SpD
Impish Nature
- Bullet Punch
- Bug Bite
- Roost
- Swords Dance

Clefable @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 172 Def / 84 SpD
Calm Nature
- Calm Mind
- Moonblast
- Soft-Boiled
- Flamethrower
 
Last edited:
toshimelonhead
Sorry about the formatting I only just realized that the importables were for showdown as I make all my teams in game. Sorry about that.
I am looking forward to your feedback and thank you in advance!
 
Hey cool team I think I have a few suggestions to improve it! First I think Me first should be changed to tailwind on talonflame. Like you said me first really doesn't do much besides nab some surprise kills sometimes so I think changing it to something more useful would be better. Tailwind allows talon to get off a last ditch tailwind if it's about to die and allows you to go to town against offensive teams with gengar and scizor. Admittedly the last slot on talon is not really used too much but I think tailwind will be more helpful than me first.

Next I think that latios should be your defogger and scizor should be swapped to a bulky sd set. Losing one u-turner should not be too big of a deal since you have so many so I wouldn't worry about that too much. latios counters rotom-w and you said you were weak to it so I think the standard defog set with earthquake as a lure will help threaten the opposition while providing hazard and heatran removal for both talonflame and Mega scizor. Losing the speed shouldn't be a problem since both scizor and talonflame have strong priority and gengar and latios have good speed already. The new scizor set is one of my personal favorites as the ev's allow it to take on Mgardevoir and lando-t earthquakes so it can set up and sweep. Achieving +6 on this set is not too hard since it's fantastic bulk+typing allow zor to set up on the majority of the tier allowing you to have another mon that can wallbreak on your team.

Gengar should be using sludge wave>sludge bomb so you aren't walled by chesnaut but I think that was already suggested by another rater. Also gengar is one of the most brutal wallbreakers in the tier so I don't think you're using it properly if it doesn't do much. I also wouldn't worry about a sub breloom since it is not a common set and you have gengar and latios to check it anyways. Gliscor could be a problem so you can try icy wind>taunt since Mzor sets up on chansey and icy wind lures gliscor and torn-t if you want.

This is a pretty cool team hope I helped! I'l leave the changes I suggested below. I would also point out that keldeo breaks your team since latios does not have roost and rotom-w dies to secret sword but the momentum on your team should fend it off from doing too much damage.

Scizor @ Scizorite
Ability: Technician
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 248 HP / 84 Def / 176 SpD
Impish Nature
- Bullet Punch
- Bug Bite
- Roost
- Swords Dance

Latios (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Psyshock
- Earthquake
- Defog
 
The other posters in this thread have done a pretty good job rating your team but I'll give my input anyway. First off, in regards to your Scizor set, it is, to be frank, a waste of a mega slot. Bulky SD Scizor is a decent option for a set change but I'm going to suggest Fast SD Scizor instead. Please note that most of my suggestions are based around this one (but are not totally reliant on it). Here is the set:

Scizor @ Scizorite
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Bullet Punch
- Superpower
- Bug Bite

Fast SD Mega Scizor is a more offensive approach to Scizor which has several unexpected capabilities over the Bulky SD set. These are
  • Outspeeding and scoring the KO on standard Rotom-W after an SD and SR with Bug Bite (+2 252+ Atk Technician Mega Scizor Bug Bite vs. 248 HP / 216+ Def Rotom-W: 255-300 (84.1 - 99%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock)
  • Outspeeding most Heatran variants and hitting them with a Superpower
  • Outspeeding Specs Magnezone and hitting it with Superpower
Because of these things there are an amazing amount of teams that are seriously weak to this set so it is very effective despite not being able to take as many hits.

Next, your team needs a defogger. Now I know this has been said before but you really should change your Latios to the defog variant with Earthquake like the one Mur put above. Another option is using Latias with Healing Wish to better check Keldeo and provide that useful second chance for one of your mons which are all worn down pretty easily.

After this I personally would change your Talonflame set to the SD variant. SD Talonflame is a devastating sweeper who synergises excellently with my suggested Scizor set which can efficiently remove Rotom-W and Heatran for Talonflame. SD Talonflame is just more effective than CB doubling as a wallbreaker who can weaken the opposing team early in the game to come in late-game, SD, and completely wreck the opponent. Here is the set I recommend. Max Speed is to help with opposing Talonflame but 168 speed is an option to outspeed Raikou.

Talonflame @ Sharp Beak
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Brave Bird
- Flare Blitz
- Swords Dance
- Roost

Lastly I would change Gengar for Clefable as suggested by toshimelonhead. This goes well with my Scizor suggestion as it is a more solid Lati@s check than Scizor due to my Scizor set's lack of recovery and investment in bulk. You can go with his set or you can change it up based on your preferences. Clefable has so many options and a very flexible moveset so customization according to your team and preferences will be key so play around with it.

I hope I helped, there wasn't much to add so I mostly provided alternate sets. I hope the team works out for you and improves after this rate. Cya!
 
Greninja was my first choice but he got moved to Ubers.
I make all my teams in game.

I honestly don't rate teams, and I really only came here to read your post out of curiosity but... (Aside from the rest of smogon) Who cares if greninja is in Ubers? If you don't really use showdown and do everything in-game, then nobody is actually stopping you from using greninja.

I don't even know if that will change anything with your team or not, but that is definitely an option. Good luck! ;)
 
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