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Project OU Theorymon [Voting: Check Post #3272]

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Greetings.

M-Banette + Fighting Type:

Sample Set:
banette-mega.gif

Banette @ Banettite
Ability: Insomnia
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Phantom Force
- Drain Punch
- Substitute
- Will-O-Wisp

I guess this would function as a bulky attacker / stallbreaker of sorts. Hide behind subs to dodge status, burn while dodging attacks with Phantom Force and Drain Punch to alleviate Substitute use. You could go Toxic > Will-O-Wisp but I think being able to burn steels barring Heatran considering you hit it with Drain Punch already is pretty useful. Taunt > Sub is a thought as well.

Sample Core:
banette-mega.gif
tyranitar.gif
braviary.gif

Banette @ Banettite
Ability: Insomnia
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Shadow Claw
- Drain Punch
- Shadow Sneak
- Screech

Tyranitar @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Pursuit
- Stone Edge
- Superpower
- Crunch

Braviary (M) @ Choice Band
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Extreme Speed
- Brave Bird
- U-turn
- Tailwind / Facade / Sleep Talk / Superpower
Went ahead and utilized two of the theorymons together. Screech gives M-Banette an outing when it's about to go down for Tyranitar to have an easier time trapping or for Braviary to clean up in a pinch against more defensive threats or force them out. Adamant can be used on M-Bannette if using Tailwind Braviary. Stuff like Volcarona and Manaphy work well with core, Latios for hazard removal / Memento, Keldeo can take advantage of M-Banettes Screech utility to hit twice as hard with Secret Sword. Other priority users like Breloom and Azumarill work well also.

Noivern + Fiery Dance:

Sample Set:
noivern.gif

Noivern @ Leftovers
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 248 HP / 20 SpA / 240 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Dragon Pulse
- Fiery Dance
- Taunt
- Roost

Stall-breaker Noivern. Let's you get the jump on stuff like Defensive Starmie stopping it from recovering, slow down faster mons on certain semi-stall and balance builds like SubCM Keldeo. Could invest more speed is to outrun Torn-T right now.

Sample Core:
noivern.gif
gardevoir-mega.gif
bisharp.gif

Noivern @ Life Orb
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 29 HP, 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Fiery Dance
- Hurricane
- Taunt / Roost / U-Turn

Gardevoir @ Gardevoirite
Ability: Trace
EVs: 24 Def / 232 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psyshock
- Hyper Voice
- Focus Blast
- Taunt

Bisharp @ Black Glasses
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Iron Head
- Knock Off
- Sucker Punch
- Swords Dance
Really just about putting offensive pressure. Bisharp and Noivern to break down fast balance and offense, M-Gard + Bisharp to break down balance, and overall provides a good matchup against stall and defensive cores in general. Fiery Dance Noivern helps with Ferrothorn, Skarmory, and Scizor primarily which is the big selling point of the buff from what I see.
 
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AM said:
Greetings.

M-Banette + Fighting Type:

Sample Set:
banette-mega.gif

Banette @ Banettite
Ability: Insomnia
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Phantom Force
- Drain Punch
- Substitute
- Will-O-Wisp

I guess this would function as a bulky attacker / stallbreaker of sorts. Hide behind subs to dodge status, burn while dodging attacks with Phantom Force and Drain Punch to alleviate Substitute use. You could go Toxic > Will-O-Wisp but I think being able to burn steels barring Heatran considering you hit it with Drain Punch already is pretty useful. Taunt > Sub is a thought as well.

Sample Core:
banette-mega.gif
tyranitar.gif
braviary.gif

Banette @ Banettite
Ability: Insomnia
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Shadow Claw
- Drain Punch
- Shadow Sneak
- Screech

Tyranitar @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Pursuit
- Stone Edge
- Superpower
- Crunch

Braviary (M) @ Choice Band
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Extreme Speed
- Brave Bird
- U-turn
- Tailwind / Facade / Sleep Talk
Went ahead and utilized two of the theorymons together. Screech gives M-Banette an outing when it's about to go down for Tyranitar to have an easier time trapping or for Braviary to clean up in a pinch against more defensive threats or force them out. Adamant can be used on M-Bannette if using Tailwind Braviary. Stuff like Volcarona and Manaphy work well with core, Latios for hazard removal / Memento, Keldeo can take advantage of M-Banettes Screech utility to hit twice as hard with Secret Sword. Other priority users like Breloom and Azumarill work well also.

Noivern + Fiery Dance:

Sample Set:
noivern.gif

Noivern @ Leftovers
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 248 HP / 20 SpA / 240 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Dragon Pulse
- Fiery Dance
- Taunt
- Roost

Stall-breaker Noivern. Let's you get the jump on stuff like Defensive Starmie stopping it from recovering, slow down faster mons on certain semi-stall and balance builds like SubCM Keldeo. Could invest more speed is to outrun Torn-T right now.

Sample Core:
noivern.gif
gardevoir-mega.gif
bisharp.gif

Noivern @ Life Orb
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 29 HP, 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Fiery Dance
- Hurricane
- Taunt / Roost / U-Turn

Gardevoir @ Gardevoirite
Ability: Trace
EVs: 24 Def / 232 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psyshock
- Hyper Voice
- Focus Blast
- Taunt

Bisharp @ Black Glasses
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Iron Head
- Knock Off
- Sucker Punch
- Swords Dance
Really just about putting offensive pressure. Bisharp and Noivern to break down fast balance and offense, M-Gard + Bisharp to break down balance, and overall provides a good matchup against stall and defensive cores in general. Fiery Dance Noivern helps with Ferrothorn, Skarmory, and Scizor primarily which is the big selling point of the buff from what I see.
Click to expand...

These cores are pretty sweet. I particularly like the idea of Screech Banette + Pursuit T-Tar.
I think it is worth putting Super Power as an option for Braviary's last slot, to break steels. Also Its a shame that having Braviary and Mega Banette in the same core is kinda unrealistic, given that they can't both win.
 
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Waitwaitwaitwait......
i forgot that most numel learn growth!
Growth DOUBLES in sun giving camerupt SD AND NP! At this point it might be worth running EQ for special tanks. If it has TR up you litterally have to sacrafice 2 pokes untill you send in chomp.
 
i prefer m-banette ghost/dark or ghost pure with recover

noivern with fiery dance = meh


m-camerupt with desolate land = great! but a ability of a primal pokemon? i dont know


extreme speed braviary is utility, brave bird + superpower is a good combination, extreme speed can fit well, roost close


these four options i think 'murica bird with e-speed is the better
 
Reminder: I will be starting voting in two days. If you have anything you'd like to add to the discussion, now is the time to do so because we have time to generate more of a conversation.

Great job so far, everyone! Carry on :)
 
Isa Simple said:
That's right, Mega Camerupt is the greatest "Fuck You" to Rotom-W in the entire pokemon world.
70/100/105 defences alongside only 1 weakness makes Mega Camerupt a terrific tank. With its unique typing allowing it to come in and check tonnes of relevant threats, and nuke almost the entire meta. This imo would easily make Mega Camerupt an A rank threat. But of course not broken.
Click to expand...

I don't think I can agree more.
Completely countering Rotom-W is a great feat, but not only that, but
Camerupt counters every Volt-Switcher in OU:
-Raikou
-Magnezone
-Zapdos
-Mega Manectric
-Rotom-W

all give Mega Camerupt a free switch.

I also agree with the statement that Mega Camerupt would be freakishly good, but not broken. Its crap speed and Ground weakness allows several common Ground mons like Garchomp, Landorus-T, and even Hippowdon, to hit Mega Camerupt with < 70% to an OHKO.
-In addition, Latios checks it well:
252 SpA Life Orb Latios Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Camerupt: 265-313 (77 - 90.9%) -- 25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
doing enough damage to put it out of the game

For these reasons -
-Countering Volt Switchers, Water mons, and weather starters
-Being an amazing wallbreaker despite its speed
-Making Trick Room semi-viable
-Being superb at what it does (meta-defining, even)
-Abundance of common checks (Altaria, Land-T, Garchomp)

Mega Camerupt is getting my vote. Unless anybody changes my mind.
 
I'm on board with Mega Camerupt. Outside of TR, it should serve as an excellent wallbreaker as a result of its 70/100/105 defenses as well as its obscene base 145 Sp. Attack backed by desolate land. On top of that, it will serve as the ultimate middle finger to rain teams, as politoed cannot override its rain, in fact, NOTHING in OU can override desolate land, while nothing noteworthy can strike it with a water move (I don't feel like people will bother using scarf golduck). On the downside, because of its impressive base 20 speed, it will be worn down by chip damage from hazards, as it is vulnerable to all hazards. In TR, it can run a hit and run style attacker/deadly sweeper with the almighty eruption.

Calcs:

252+ SpA Mega Camerupt Eruption (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Thick Fat Mega Venusaur in Harsh Sunshine: 374-444 (102.7 - 121.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

I would imagine that this could be a good hit and run wallbreaker set. It almost plays like XY ubers with Choice Scarf Kyogre being omnipresent.

Camerupt @ Cameruptite
Ability: Solid Rock
EVs: 252 HP, 252 Sp. Attack, 4 Defense
Quiet Nature
-Eruption
-Fire Blast (For when your HP becomes lower)
-Solar Beam
-Earth Power
 
IDK, Mega Camerupt more or less invalidating an entire playstyle singlehandedly seems... troublesome to me. Rain isn't anywhere close to as good as it was in gen 5, but it's still a driving force in the meta. I'm not sure one mon being able to halt it in its tracks completely is a good idea, tbh. also, there's a good chance it would singlehandedly make trickroom dominate. Yes, I don't have any firm calcs, but many of the other people in this thread have posted those illustrating its ridiculous power. I wouldn't be opposed to giving something else desolate land or primordial sea, but Camerupt seems to benefit a little too much in my eyes. If he had drought, I would be ok with it because he still has that four X weakness, and you can interrupt it with drizzle. also, due to its bulk it takes either a stab or boosted ground move to hurt or kill it. as to chip damage and hazards, would that really matter if you're getting a KO most of the time you switch in? (also, rip scarfed/choiced water moves!)
just my two cents
 
ANNOUNCEMENT: VOTING PERIOD AND NEW VOTING POLICY

Hey folks, the time for discussion has ended and it is now time to start voting!

For your consideration…

noivern.gif
+ Fiery Dance (Credit to GnralLao )
banette-mega.gif
+ Ghost/Fighting and Drain Punch
braviary.gif
+ ExtremeSpeed
camerupt-mega.gif
+ Desolate Land

Please remember to BOLD YOUR VOTE.

Now onto the new policy…we the council have decided to try something new. We are going to allow you to vote for a second, older submission that lost. "But Sun King," you might ask, "why would we vote for a LOSER?" Well, this allows you to see some of your old favorites make it to the archive without an all-or-nothing voting period. Essentially, it eliminates the requests for "Second Round Slates" (something we detest because discussion completely dies during the slate) because people can still vote for their favorite things. I want to give Isa Simple a MAJOR shoutout for this, as this is a modification of his original idea.

Please pay attention, as there are a few ground rules for these Runner Up votes.
  • Each Honorable Mention must have received at least 10 votes during its respective slate (I've already looked at everything so far, and I'm intentionally leaving a few out…)
  • Each Honorable Mention must receive at least 10 votes during the current voting period in order to be added to the archive (I want to see at least a semblance of a popular opinion on these…)
  • You must follow the format for voting for Honorable Mentions. There will be NO EXCEPTIONS to this rule.
    • The correct format is: Honorable Mention: *insert vote here*
      • I mean it when I say there are no exceptions to this rule. Please adhere to it.
  • You may campaign for the current slate, but you may not campaign for Honorable Mentions. It will add WAY TOO MUCH clutter to the thread. If I see one, I'll ask you to delete it.
Here is the list of things you may vote for as a "Runner Up"…
-Virizion + Drought
-Infernape + Prankster
-Tornadus + Competitive
-Cacturne + Sand Rush
-Noivern + Nasty Plot
-Umbreon + Unaware
-Kyurem + Sheer Force
-Gastrodon + Poison Heal
-Krookodile + Dragon Dance
-Typhlosion + Drought
-Hydreigon + Protean
-Spiritomb + Dark Aura
-Glalie + Dragon Dance
-Mega Tyranitar + Sand Force
-Mega Beedrill + Bug/Ground-Typing
-Umbreon + Magic Bounce
Click to expand...

Hopefully, this will discourage "bandwagoning" during the voting period, as people will want to see their favorite things eligible for an Honorable Mention. I plan on keeping the Honorable Mention slate the same with additions/subtractions being things that become eligible and things that are voted into the archive.

Please make your votes for this slate look like the following:
Mega Camerupt + Desolate Land

Honorable Mention: Gastrodon + Poison Heal

Wow. So apparently I've graduated from shitposter and suddenly started posting a lot better. What if Scizor got Powder?
Shoutouts to…(the council, DUH)
Mysteria : Bro, you have been a genuine pleasure to work with. Not only that, but you have been an absolute joy to dick around with and shoot the shit. I am so proud of everything we've accomplished together, and I'm immensely excited for what we have planned for the future. Let's keep killing it man.
Recreant : I'm still so proud of you and your badge, and more like wrektreant if you ask me. Which you did. I still remember when Ohio was on fire. Absolute blast to talk to, and joke around with.
Valmanway : Dude, you have always been the one council member I try to outdo with my submissions. You are genuinely keen and have an amazing understanding of not only the metagame but what it takes to make a great submission. I'm always excited for the things you bring to the table. Thank you for being my inspiration.
unfixable : unfixaboo ily. You're always the first to lighten the mood and calm things down when our discussions get heated. I also cannot thank you enough for all the help you've been in the OM department. When the hell are you getting mods???
Celticpride : Let me tell you, you have really come into your own in this project. I have been really impressed with the drive you have and I really like the way you think about submissions. You're also very knowledgable and you have been one of the best additions we could have made. I'm so glad to have you on board, and I'm looking forward to all the great things you'll help us do with the project.

Welp…you all know what to do. VOTE.
 
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I feel like people are kind of pushing for M-Cam a bit too hard for what has been this misconception about it. One of the main reasons why it sucks in OU to begin and is primarily why people don't use it in the first place, is because it is sloooooow. Yes, you cockblock Rotom-W, you give yourself a chance against Azumarill, you'll beat most waters that can't function as a wall-breaker, you'll basically change the foundation of how stuff like Suicune and Manaphy function, that's great and all. But you still have to get past the fact that you're always going to be in the position of being insanely slow to begin with.

Now I guess you can tell me "well it would normally be in Trick Room". Well this mandates an entire team to use and almost a systematic approach to how you play this style in the first place, making playing against this more or less a breeze unless you use really unconventional approaches. Trick Room teams primarily don't run hazard removers, they don't have the time or team slot to find room for that they want every wall-breaking power they can have for Trick Room. So let's assume that right off the bat M-Camerupt at any given turn is going to come in on hazards mostly at the very least maybe SR + Spikes. This is the best case scenario and the scenario you might see mid-game where Cress just used Lunar Dance for example.

I don't know about any of you but whenever I've actually went up against an M-Cam Trick Room team or really any Trick Room team with a heavy duty wall-breaker in the back my focus at that point is 1. take control of the players systematic approach of Trick room to stop he/she from utilizing it 2. Make sure I'm playing so that said wall-breaker doesn't get out of hand. You'd basically would see more teams using fat grounds that can stomach a hit decently like Garchomp to counteract this if it even gained the relevancy of what people assume would be its viability.

I think the pros of this theorymon are nice and all, but there is that blatantly obvious con of lack of speed that I think has flown over peoples heads over the Desolate Land hype.

Edit: Oops got ninja'd sorry Sun King :(

M-Banette Ghost/Fighting and Drain Punch.

Honorable mention: Cacturne + Sand Rush
 
Braviary + Extreme Speed

Honorable Mention: Glalie + Dragon Dance
 
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Quick reminder to everyone:

Honorable Mention is the part you are supposed to put in bold. I know it seems pretty arbitrary, but when I count the votes, it's easier on my eyes.

Thank you for your cooperation (this means please follow my lead on voting format)

AM Edit: I fixed two posts above to reflect the bold aspect.
 
Despite my initial hype, I think my opinion has swayed from Sun Camel.

Mega Banette + Fighting Type and Drain Punch

Honorable Mention: Bug/Ground Type Mega Beedrill
 
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