Rain Dance + Surf already 2HKOes Clef 100% of the time after Rocks
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Project "Lure that Threat!" ORAS OU Version (Week 8 Standard Mega Latias)
- Thread starter Miridy
- Start date
- Status
Rain Dance + Surf already 2HKOes Clef 100% of the time after Rocks
that combo isnt posible except there is another rain setter cuz u can rd or Surf on switch, so clef can wish/protect next turn
Infernape @ Life Orb
Ability: Iron Fist / Blaze
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Gunk Shot
- Taunt / Sword Dance / Mach Punch
- Close Combat
- Flare Blitz
i think that Infernape can be a great lure with 2kho Gunk shot.
252 Atk Life Orb Infernape Gunk Shot vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 257-304 (65.2 - 77.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
no other move of nape can kill with 2kho Clefable... and he avoid the Okho by +1 moonblast.
GG ;3
With this set Nape Okho also Azumarill 100% after SR OMG 2 stronk
But isn't Gunk Shot pretty standard on Infernape now ?
Is Infernape standard in OU?
Week 1 results are now posted on the Hall of Fame
And, Week 2 is now over.
I tend to not post during the nomination period in order not to change anything with my opinion and stay neutral, but since there was a debate about Iron Head Mega Gyarados, and how I used Iron Tail Mega Gyarados for the example I feel I should give my two cents about it:
I don't think it's realy worth it, a +1 Mega Gyarados will 2hko Max hp max def Clefable anyways with Waterfall, just like a +0 Iron Head Clefable has great chances to escape the 2hko with Protect, you're better off Dragon Dancing, and if you want to attack Mega Altaria Ice Fang (along with Stealth Rocks, and perhaps sandstorm) also gives you a better coverage against Rocky Helmet Garchomp and Mega Venusaur anyways, besides it should be considered that you are changing the moveset of your specific mega evolution in order to (supposedly) have better chances against Clefable, not a "common" mon.
Team Pokepals
Interesting item choice though Life orb loss is noticeable, sadly Grass Knot Thundurus was already picked and week 1 is over by some time.
As for Keldeo, well, although cm is the most used set and Choice Specs isn't as common as early XY people will still be wary of it when they will find out how Keldeo does not have Leftovers as its item (which is easy to do thanks to Stealth Rocks), also Clefable's ev spread is the full hp full defense one, the mixed ev spread (96 calm) is more suited to the Magic Guard version, as the damage calcs for it do not count entry hazards.
I really like the Manaphy, especially since Clefable has Calm Mind and Wish as recovery, and to answer the one liner:
No, though it's more common than Staraptor, being uncommon does not mean that an experienced player will go crazy and will not know how a specific threat will act, there are many ways in order to quickly gain knowledge of it (usage stats, viability ranking sets, the pokedex from Smogon, simple guessing by stats and moveset offered by the Showdown's TeamBuilder etc), I believe this is an important point: being uncommon or rare does not necessarily make you a good lure, in this case though Gunk Shot is (a bit) uncommon, since majority of Infernape are SashLead or Mixape.
Btw, so many Conkeldurrs heh
With that said, let's start Week 3:
Tornadus-Therian (M) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 132 HP / 124 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hurricane
- U-turn
- Knock Off
- Focus Blast
Having lost the most important reason in checking Landorus-Incarnate Tornadus-Therian might seem a bit nerfed, but it's still a top tier threat as of now that needs no introduction, able to tank a good deal of special attackers and gaining easily recovery thanks to U-turn and Regenerator, coupled by the great speed, scary (and shaky) Hurricane which other than being a powerful flying type attacks also brings 30% confuse rate, coverage moves like Focus Blast/Superpower, Heat Wave and HP Ice, Tornadus-Therian can easily pressure a great deal of sweeper, and killing it might be a difficult task.
Btw, I gave Tornadus max speed and not the standard 216 speed evs, because... seriously, why do you want Orb Alakazam to outspeed you?
And, Week 2 is now over.
I tend to not post during the nomination period in order not to change anything with my opinion and stay neutral, but since there was a debate about Iron Head Mega Gyarados, and how I used Iron Tail Mega Gyarados for the example I feel I should give my two cents about it:
I don't think it's realy worth it, a +1 Mega Gyarados will 2hko Max hp max def Clefable anyways with Waterfall, just like a +0 Iron Head Clefable has great chances to escape the 2hko with Protect, you're better off Dragon Dancing, and if you want to attack Mega Altaria Ice Fang (along with Stealth Rocks, and perhaps sandstorm) also gives you a better coverage against Rocky Helmet Garchomp and Mega Venusaur anyways, besides it should be considered that you are changing the moveset of your specific mega evolution in order to (supposedly) have better chances against Clefable, not a "common" mon.
Team Pokepals
Interesting item choice though Life orb loss is noticeable, sadly Grass Knot Thundurus was already picked and week 1 is over by some time.
As for Keldeo, well, although cm is the most used set and Choice Specs isn't as common as early XY people will still be wary of it when they will find out how Keldeo does not have Leftovers as its item (which is easy to do thanks to Stealth Rocks), also Clefable's ev spread is the full hp full defense one, the mixed ev spread (96 calm) is more suited to the Magic Guard version, as the damage calcs for it do not count entry hazards.
I really like the Manaphy, especially since Clefable has Calm Mind and Wish as recovery, and to answer the one liner:
No, though it's more common than Staraptor, being uncommon does not mean that an experienced player will go crazy and will not know how a specific threat will act, there are many ways in order to quickly gain knowledge of it (usage stats, viability ranking sets, the pokedex from Smogon, simple guessing by stats and moveset offered by the Showdown's TeamBuilder etc), I believe this is an important point: being uncommon or rare does not necessarily make you a good lure, in this case though Gunk Shot is (a bit) uncommon, since majority of Infernape are SashLead or Mixape.
Btw, so many Conkeldurrs heh
With that said, let's start Week 3:
Tornadus-Therian (M) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 132 HP / 124 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hurricane
- U-turn
- Knock Off
- Focus Blast
Having lost the most important reason in checking Landorus-Incarnate Tornadus-Therian might seem a bit nerfed, but it's still a top tier threat as of now that needs no introduction, able to tank a good deal of special attackers and gaining easily recovery thanks to U-turn and Regenerator, coupled by the great speed, scary (and shaky) Hurricane which other than being a powerful flying type attacks also brings 30% confuse rate, coverage moves like Focus Blast/Superpower, Heat Wave and HP Ice, Tornadus-Therian can easily pressure a great deal of sweeper, and killing it might be a difficult task.
Btw, I gave Tornadus max speed and not the standard 216 speed evs, because... seriously, why do you want Orb Alakazam to outspeed you?
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Serperior @ Life Orb / Miracle Seed
Ability: Contrary
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Leaf Storm
- Dragon Pulse
- Glare
- Hidden Power [Fire]
Tornadus-T is one of the more common switch ins to Serperior for fairly obvious reasons, resists Serperior's STAB moves, outspeeds and kills with Hurricane. As such, the switch can be pretty obvious for the Serperior user, and while clicking Leaf Storm is generally the most optimal play, using Glare to catch Tornadus-T upon switch in can be pretty game changing. While Serperior may not be able to come out on top right afterwards, allowing a teammate that would normally be outsped to get big damage off on Tornadus can help Serperior clean up late game, as a +2 Leaf Storm does a little under half to Tornadus.
Taking Icy Wind Gengar.
Also just a note Miridy, but Clefable's mixed EV spread actually has 84 special defense evs as opposed to 96, and AV Tornadus-T should run 160 SpA EVs to OHKO Keldeo with Hurricane.
Here's Gengar:
Gengar @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Shadow Ball
- Sludge Wave
- Focus Blast
- Icy Wind
Gengar is a nice lure for Tornadus-T, as AV Tornadus-T will quite typically switch into Gengar. However, Gengar can hit it with Icy Wind, slowing it down in the process so that the subsequent Sludge Wave will KO it after Stealth Rock.
Calcs:
252 SpA Life Orb Gengar Icy Wind vs. 96 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Tornadus-T: 117-138 (36.2 - 42.7%) -- 84.4% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Life Orb Gengar Sludge Wave vs. 96 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Tornadus-T: 148-175 (45.8 - 54.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Also just a note Miridy, but Clefable's mixed EV spread actually has 84 special defense evs as opposed to 96, and AV Tornadus-T should run 160 SpA EVs to OHKO Keldeo with Hurricane.
Here's Gengar:
Gengar @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Shadow Ball
- Sludge Wave
- Focus Blast
- Icy Wind
Gengar is a nice lure for Tornadus-T, as AV Tornadus-T will quite typically switch into Gengar. However, Gengar can hit it with Icy Wind, slowing it down in the process so that the subsequent Sludge Wave will KO it after Stealth Rock.
Calcs:
252 SpA Life Orb Gengar Icy Wind vs. 96 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Tornadus-T: 117-138 (36.2 - 42.7%) -- 84.4% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Life Orb Gengar Sludge Wave vs. 96 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Tornadus-T: 148-175 (45.8 - 54.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Keldeo @ Choice Specs
Ability: Justified
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Scald
- Secret Power
- Hydro Pump
- Icy Wind
Torn-T can usually switch into Keldeo without having to worry too much. Specs Icy Wind allows Keldeo to outspeed Torn and 2HKO it after SR.
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Icy Wind vs. 132 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Tornadus-T: 132-156 (39.7 - 46.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
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Thanks for the heads up, I'm going for the usage as in the most used ev spread for Clefable atm is 252 hp 160 def 96 sdef calm, it's a minor thing the 12 sdef evs, but they allows you to avoid the 2hko from 252 orb Thundurus without Leftovers, in case Clefable lost the item due to Knock Off.
As for Tornadus-therian the 132 hp evs allows you to escape the ohko from Choice Specs Gothitelle and Life Orb Latios' Psyshock (after Stealth Rocks) so I suppose it's a matter of preference, I have no problem if you calc with 96 hp anyways, or I could go for an happy medium, a spread of 120 hp, 138 satk max speed allows you to escape the ohko from Gothi and Latios while also having a 87.5% chance to ohko Keldeo at full health.
As for Tornadus-therian the 132 hp evs allows you to escape the ohko from Choice Specs Gothitelle and Life Orb Latios' Psyshock (after Stealth Rocks) so I suppose it's a matter of preference, I have no problem if you calc with 96 hp anyways, or I could go for an happy medium, a spread of 120 hp, 138 satk max speed allows you to escape the ohko from Gothi and Latios while also having a 87.5% chance to ohko Keldeo at full health.
EDIT: Changed nomination to Mega Sceptile.
Breloom @ Life Orb
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Spore
- Bullet Seed
- Mach Punch
- Rock Tomb
Tornadus-T normally has nothing to fear from Breloom after it has slept something with Spore. However, Rock Tomb allows Breloom to OHKO it on the switch while also dealing good damage to Celebi, Charizard, Talonflame and Volcarona. LO-boosted Mach Punch also allows Breloom to easily OHKO Mega Lopunny, Excadrill, Bisharp and revenge kill Mega Gyarados. Bullet Seed is for STAB.
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Spore
- Bullet Seed
- Mach Punch
- Rock Tomb
Tornadus-T normally has nothing to fear from Breloom after it has slept something with Spore. However, Rock Tomb allows Breloom to OHKO it on the switch while also dealing good damage to Celebi, Charizard, Talonflame and Volcarona. LO-boosted Mach Punch also allows Breloom to easily OHKO Mega Lopunny, Excadrill, Bisharp and revenge kill Mega Gyarados. Bullet Seed is for STAB.
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Tangrowth @ Life Orb
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 224 SpA / 32 Spe
Modest Nature
- Leaf Storm
- Focus Blast
- Knock Off
- Sleep Powder
This set works so well mainly because Assault Vest is standard on OU Growth, so Sleep Powder isn't usually an option opponents consider. Sleep Powder obviously catches Torn on the switch, as well as a bunch of other threats like Zard-Y, Talonflame, Heatran, Lati's, etc etc. If you hit something besides Tornadus with Sleep Powder, you still have Knock Off to remove its Assault Vest, making this Growth a nice partner for stuff like Keldeo. Leaf Storm is your basic hit-and-run nuke, Focus Blast hits Heatran and a bunch of other stuff with surprising power.
For some other options, Stun Spore is decent in place of Sleep Powder if the team appreciates paralysis. Earthquake and HP Fire can go over Focus Blast and/or Knock Off, especially if the team needs a backup SD Scizor check etc.
As for partners, Keldeo is probably optimal. Tangrowth pressures bulky Waters, absorbs Volt Switches cost free, and can cripple stuff like Tornadus, Latias, Celebi, and Ferrothorn for Keld. Tangrowth / Keldeo / Heatran makes a super solid FWG specially offensive core as well.
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Volcarona @ Coba Berry
Ability: Flame Body
EVs: 112 HP / 252 SpA / 144 Spe
Modest Nature
- Quiver Dance
- Fire Blast
- Giga Drain
- Bug Buzz / Hidden Power Ground / Hidden Power Rock
Coba Berry weakens Tornadus' Hurricane so Volcarona is able to take a hit even at +0 and hit Tornadus-T back with a Fire Blast. If rocks are up on the other side, Volcarona can set up against Tornadus-T, hit it with Fire Blast the next turn and OHKO it 40% of the time. If Volcarona uses Quiver Dance on the switch, it can Quiver again, only take 25% from the Hurricane with Coba Berry activated and OHKO Tornadus-T 30% of the time (100% if rocks are up) Coba Berry also helps against Talonflame (unless banded) Mega Pinsir (Quick Attack) and Togekiss. 144 Spe Modest just my preferred speed because it gives you more bulk while still outspeed base 135s at +1.
252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Quick Attack vs. 112 HP / 0 Def Coba Berry Volcarona: 138-163 (40.7 - 48%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Sharp Beak Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 112 HP / 0 Def Coba Berry Volcarona: 244-288 (71.9 - 84.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
124 SpA Tornadus-T Hurricane vs. 112 HP / 0 SpD Coba Berry Volcarona: 138-163 (40.7 - 48%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
124 SpA Tornadus-T Hurricane vs. +2 112 HP / 0 SpD Coba Berry Volcarona: 69-82 (20.3 - 24.1%) -- guaranteed 5HKO
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Tornadus-T's usage isn't going to drop because of Landorus-I's removal. It checks and annoys so many threats--Latios, Starmie, Latias, Keldeo, Serperior, bulky enough to Knock Off Raikou's Assault Vest without falling to Thunderbolt, Gengar, etc etc. it's so good at what it does. With that said, anything with Knock Off or a paralysis move would render the Assault Vest set ineffective, as it's no longer able to function at capacity without its Sp.Def bulk and Speed. With Regenerator, it can just switch out on a surprise move, so hitting it with an effective move usually isn't gonna kill it.
The lures listed above are great.
Here's my lure for it though.
Serperior @ Coba Berry
Nature: Timid
8HP/248Sp.Attk/252Spe
---
Leaf Storm
Dragon Pulse
Hidden Power Rock
Glare / Knock Off
This lures Char-Y and Volcarona too as a bonus.
The lures listed above are great.
Here's my lure for it though.
Serperior @ Coba Berry
Nature: Timid
8HP/248Sp.Attk/252Spe
---
Leaf Storm
Dragon Pulse
Hidden Power Rock
Glare / Knock Off
This lures Char-Y and Volcarona too as a bonus.
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Latios (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 29 HP
- Defog
- Thunder Wave
- Psyshock
- Draco Meteor
T-Wave Latios, is one of the best solutions for Tornadus-T, Paralize him in switch in, and eliminate the danger 4 the team. Moreover, it can count on a 2kho with Psyshock, possible paralysis, and without the risk of being 2kho himself from Knock Off.
Obviously, it is a function that can also perform Latias.
Celebi @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 156 Def / 84 SpD / 16 Spe
Bold Nature
- Giga Drain
- Recover
- Thunder Wave
- Stealth Rock/Healing Wish/Psychic/Baton Pass
Support Celebi. Thunder Wave the torn switch in basically crippling it the rest of the game.
Giga drain and recover are standard
Last slot you have lot of flexibility. You can set rocks, healing wish, have another attack, or use baton pass to escape pursuit.
Eevees taken from smogon
Alakazam @ Life Orb
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Psychic
- Shadow Ball
- Focus Blast
- Knock Off
Alright so this is a little unconventional but I've tried it out and it works. So Torn-T switches in and you hit it with a Knock Off, removing the Assault Vest. Alakazam can't stay in here otherwise it might lose its Life Orb (and its life) so you'll have to switch out. However from here on out Torn-T can't reliably switch into Alakazam any more:
252 SpA Life Orb Alakazam Psychic vs. 132 HP / 0 SpD Tornadus-T: 216-255 (65 - 76.8%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
Though it's a pretty low chance to KO after Stealth Rocks if you manage to get any prior damage or even have something like Sandstorm active (since Zam is a great win con on balance teams and Hippo is a balance god) then Torn-T will go down.
This doesn't outright lure and KO Torn-T but it hinders its effectiveness greatly once you Knock Off the AV.
I prefer this over Psyshock since Psychic is still more powerful in general and does more to things like Clefable and Mega Venu. Knock Off is still useful just in general since it lures in things like Chansey to weaken them for the rest of the team as well.
Gengar @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Icy Wind
- Shadow Ball
- Sludge Wave
- Will-O-Wisp
This Gar set should lure Torn-T really well, as Icy Wind+Sludge Wave is a safe ko after rocks on Assault Vest Sets and Will o Wisp cripples it, to make it easier to deal with, since Torn really hates being burned, because it really hinders it from doing its job. It cant keep switching in on Gengar (or other mons its meant to check) as Rocks+Burn+the attack it might have to take wear it down easily
its quite important for this lure to keep up rocks, so I think pairing it with something to stop Starmie and Latis from Spinning/Defogging freely is a really good partner.
(You could switch either Icy Wind or Will o Wisp to Focus Blast if you need to hit Steels really desperatly, but I just prefer those 2, as I ued this on a Team that didnt have any trouble with Tran and Ferro)
252 SpA Life Orb Gengar Icy Wind vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Tornadus-T: 117-138 (32.3 - 38.1%) -- 94.9% chance to 3HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Gengar Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Tornadus-T: 148-175 (40.8 - 48.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Life Orb Gengar Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Tornadus-T: 148-175 (40.8 - 48.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Edit: Didnt see that there was a icy wind gar already, I guess this is ok cuz I still have will o :x
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I'm sorry, but this really bothered me since it really doesn't make sense at all as a good lure. First of all, AV Tornadus-T is used to check special attackers, not physical attackers so I don't really know why it would bother switching into Pangoro in the first place. Also, if you simply just keep up Stealth Rock, Tornadus-T dies to Knock Off upon switch-in, as that is typically the most commonly used move by Pangoro and other Dark types.
Pangoro @ Life Orb
Ability: Scrappy
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Superpower
- Knock Off
- Poison Jab
- Stone Edge
252+ Atk Life Orb Pangoro Stone Edge vs. 132 HP / 0 Def Tornadus-T: 364-429 (109.6 - 129.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Tornadus-T comes in on Pangoro thinking it get an easy Hurri-Miss as Knock Off doesn't even outright KO it. Predict the Torn-T switch and go to work with Stone-Miss. You also can put a hurting on Mega Char X while OHKOing Char Y.
252+ Atk Life Orb Pangoro Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Charizard X: 276-325 (92.9 - 109.4%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Pangoro Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Charizard Y: 733-868 (246.8 - 292.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Pangoro Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 132 HP / 0 Def Tornadus-T: 265-312 (79.8 - 93.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
If you chose a Choice Band, which isnt that bad, Knock Off has a 50% chance to one shot Tornadus from full HP.
252+ Atk Choice Band Pangoro Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 132 HP / 0 Def Tornadus-T: 304-358 (91.5 - 107.8%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
Heck, even Superpower puts a heavy dent into it.
252+ Atk Life Orb Pangoro Superpower vs. 132 HP / 0 Def Tornadus-T: 162-191 (48.7 - 57.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Somewhat unrelated, but I don't know why you listed Poison Jab when Pangoro gets Gunk Shot :/
AV Conk with Stone Edge > Ice Punch works really well here.
Conkeldurr @ Assault Vest
Ability: Guts
EVs: 252 Atk / 236 Spd / 20 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Drain Punch
- Mach Punch
- Knock Off
- Stone Edge
Conkeldurr @ Assault Vest
Ability: Guts
EVs: 252 Atk / 236 Spd / 20 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Drain Punch
- Mach Punch
- Knock Off
- Stone Edge
AV Torn-T vs. AV Conk
160 SpA Tornadus-T Hurricane vs. 0 HP / 236 SpD Assault Vest Conkeldurr: 210-248 (59.8 - 70.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
AV Conk vs. AV Torn-T
252+ Atk Conkeldurr Stone Edge vs. 132 HP / 0 Def Tornadus-T: 306-360 (92.1 - 108.4%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
LO Torn-T vs. AV Conk (just to show)
216 SpA Life Orb Tornadus-T Hurricane vs. 0 HP / 236 SpD Assault Vest Conkeldurr: 283-335 (80.6 - 95.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
This set doesn't even need rocks to be up to lure Tornadus reliably; hitting it with anything on the switch with even mach punch (why are you predicting mach punch when they have torn in the back though) does a minimum of 13%.
160 SpA Tornadus-T Hurricane vs. 0 HP / 236 SpD Assault Vest Conkeldurr: 210-248 (59.8 - 70.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
AV Conk vs. AV Torn-T
252+ Atk Conkeldurr Stone Edge vs. 132 HP / 0 Def Tornadus-T: 306-360 (92.1 - 108.4%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
LO Torn-T vs. AV Conk (just to show)
216 SpA Life Orb Tornadus-T Hurricane vs. 0 HP / 236 SpD Assault Vest Conkeldurr: 283-335 (80.6 - 95.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
This set doesn't even need rocks to be up to lure Tornadus reliably; hitting it with anything on the switch with even mach punch (why are you predicting mach punch when they have torn in the back though) does a minimum of 13%.
I think you can kinda apply what boltsandbombers said to this one too, who would switch their Torn in on a Conk?AV Conk with Stone Edge > Ice Punch works really well here.
Conkeldurr @ Assault Vest
Ability: Guts
EVs: 252 Atk / 236 Spd / 20 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Drain Punch
- Mach Punch
- Knock Off
- Stone Edge
AV Torn-T vs. AV Conk
160 SpA Tornadus-T Hurricane vs. 0 HP / 236 SpD Assault Vest Conkeldurr: 210-248 (59.8 - 70.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
AV Conk vs. AV Torn-T
252+ Atk Conkeldurr Stone Edge vs. 132 HP / 0 Def Tornadus-T: 306-360 (92.1 - 108.4%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
LO Torn-T vs. AV Conk (just to show)
216 SpA Life Orb Tornadus-T Hurricane vs. 0 HP / 236 SpD Assault Vest Conkeldurr: 283-335 (80.6 - 95.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
This set doesn't even need rocks to be up to lure Tornadus reliably; hitting it with anything on the switch with even mach punch (why are you predicting mach punch when they have torn in the back though) does a minimum of 13%.
People who expect this to happen:
160 SpA Tornadus-T Hurricane vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Conkeldurr (Bulky LO SF): 422-498 (101.9 - 120.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Pangoro isn't a super great lure because it dents Tornadus really hard with STAB Knock off, but Conkeldurr doesn't have that problem.
In addition, LO SF conk is becoming more common, so I believe the calc and lure are relevant. Could be convinced otherwise, however.
He meant the part about Torn-T switching in to take SPECIAL attacks and not Physical ones like Knock Off. That's why Conk and Pangoro aren't good lures for Torn-T.
Venusaur @ Venusaurite
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 252 HP / 240 Def / 16 Spe
Bold Nature
- Giga Drain
- Sludge Bomb
- Synthesis
- Knock Off / Sleep Powder
Torn-T is generally one of the better answers to Mega Venusaur, since it can 2HKO with Hurricane, and usually has nothing to worry about as Sludge Bomb is a 4HKO. The 4th move is usually HP Fire, Earthquake or Leech Seed, but Knock Off (which is actually used) can be used to get rid of the AV that makes Tornadus hard to defeat, while Sleep Powder is able to put it to sleep. Mega Venusaur is somewhat difficult to defeat, and being asleep or losing the AV on Tornadus can make it extremely difficult for teams that rely on it to KO Mega Venusaur.
160 SpA Tornadus-T Hurricane vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Venusaur: 254-302 (69.7 - 82.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Mega Venusaur Sludge Bomb vs. 132 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Tornadus-T: 84-100 (25.3 - 30.1%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
0 SpA Mega Venusaur Sludge Bomb vs. 132 HP / 0 SpD Tornadus-T: 127-150 (38.2 - 45.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
0 SpA Mega Venusaur Sludge Bomb vs. 132 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Tornadus-T: 84-100 (25.3 - 30.1%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
0 SpA Mega Venusaur Sludge Bomb vs. 132 HP / 0 SpD Tornadus-T: 127-150 (38.2 - 45.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
- Status