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Hi again! I was lurking the suspect discussion thread and noticed people talking about how M-Glalie is going to raise because of the Reuniclus + Noivern ban, and I was wondering why that is. It seems like M-Glalie is powerful enough to pick off weakened Reuniclus (or act as an emergency button: 252 Atk Refrigerate Mega Glalie Explosion vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Reuniclus: 433-511 (102.1 - 120.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO) and is a pretty solid check/revenge killer to Noivern with Ice Shard. Does the banning of Noivern and Reuniclus have other effects on the metagame that would cause Glalie to become better?

edit: the rise of Cobalion also seems to hurt M-Glalie.

edit2: here are the posts for reference: 1 2
 
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Gimmick, MGlalie will still be solid due to the fact that Fighting-types will make fat Steels less common and Flygon will likely fill Noivern's place as the primary Dragon of RU (it's still ice shard bait) And it still outspeeds most non-boosted Fighting-types in the tier. It's more of a rise due to the types of defensive pokemon that should be common with many Fighting types and the offensive Flying- and Psychic-types that offense will use to revenge them most times.

Bluerain BW2 RU simply felt more balanced. While this is primarily due recently to the major tier shifts that happened in May, it also has to do with the power creep and Mega Evolutions that have brought insanely powerful threats to the tier (Noivern, Reuniclus, Zoroark, and even shit like Azelf and Shaymin for a time during beta stages) Even now, stuff like Cobalion, Scrafty, and Mega Glalie are really powerful threats for RU to deal with, none of which really are comparable to the top BW2 RU offensive threats (except for maybe Nidoqueen when she was in the tier and Moltres)
 
Is Choice Band Flygon even a thing anymore at all in ORAS? I know it used to be a thing in BW UU, but what about now? If its still a thing, what uses does it have over something like Choice Band Tyrantrum? (Or even Druddigon?)

(Also I still remember the times where Jellicent was considered one of the worst RU Pokemon by usage. Ah, good times.)
 
Choice Band Flygon has Speed, STAB EQ, and U-turn, all of which are very important to have over the other two Dragons. It's not the most popular set, but it is good.
 
How is this team so far SD Virizion Spiritomb and Mega Steelix Also why is skunktank Ru all it has is Defog and Pursuit Personally i wish it goes NU in next tier shift
 
BrandonBeast said:
How is this team so far SD Virizion Spiritomb and Mega Steelix Also why is skunktank Ru all it has is Defog and Pursuit Personally i wish it goes NU in next tier shift
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Just at a glance, it looks a little weak to Emboar, Scarf sets in particular as it would outspeed Virizion. You may want to give Jellicent a try in your 4th teamslot or over Spiritomb considering it only really fears Banded Wild Charge and is immune to or resists Emboar's STAB options. As for Skuntank, Skunk provides teams with Defog and Pursuit support in one Pokemon, something that nothing else in the tier can do. It also has access to Sucker Punch, which can allow it to checkmate a lot of the faster Psychic- and Ghost-type Pokemon in the tier. Its access to Taunt also made it one of the better Reuniclus checks before Reuni got the boot a few days ago.
 
In gen 4 Gallade was BL whereas Medicham was NU, in gen 5 Gallade was very high ranked RU whereas Medicham was lower RU and considered mostly outclassed, and now both are RU in the exact same rank (B+). What happened? Not counting their irrelevant mega evolutions it looks like the only thing that changed is that Gallade actually got a buff in a strong knock off and medicham's stronger high jump kick in gen V. Did the metagame around them change somehow?
 
Mijzelffan said:
In gen 4 Gallade was BL whereas Medicham was NU, in gen 5 Gallade was very high ranked RU whereas Medicham was lower RU and considered mostly outclassed, and now both are RU in the exact same rank (B+). What happened? Not counting their irrelevant mega evolutions it looks like the only thing that changed is that Gallade actually got a buff in a strong knock off and medicham's stronger high jump kick in gen V. Did the metagame around them change somehow?
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Well, yes, the metagame around them changed a lot. Since the start of XY, new threats like Reuniclus and Cobalion dropped to RU and the metagame became faster and bulkier, therefore Gallade's flagship SD set that terrorized 5th gen RU became a bit less effective thanks to both the new competitors (the Musketeers mostly), sturdier walls (Gligar) and a faster metagame in general, while Medicham had to stick to Scarf set to be effective (even though both CB and dual priority were quite good as well). In this state of the metagame, the two are equally ranked because, while they are still a tad outperformed by higher ranked pokemon (Cobalion has an easier time SDing and Hitmonlee is a better HJKicker because of higher speed, stab priority and Knock off), they lost many checks between the transitions to said metagame (Ex.:Moltres, Gligar, Noivern) and they still possess their unique traits to distinguish themselves from the competition (like Gallade's higher special bulk and much higher attack than the Musketeers and Medicham's much stronger HJK) thus being of equal effectiveness against their respective playstyle (balance and offense) and warranting the same rank.
I hope it was a decent enough explanation, may have missed/gotten something wrong along the way
 
Mijzelffan said:
In gen 4 Gallade was BL whereas Medicham was NU, in gen 5 Gallade was very high ranked RU whereas Medicham was lower RU and considered mostly outclassed, and now both are RU in the exact same rank (B+). What happened? Not counting their irrelevant mega evolutions it looks like the only thing that changed is that Gallade actually got a buff in a strong knock off and medicham's stronger high jump kick in gen V. Did the metagame around them change somehow?
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Medicham is a wallbreaker who fires off strong attacks from turn 1, whereas, like Gladio said, Gallade has a lot of competition in it's SD set from things like Cobalion and Virizion, plus there's not a whole lot that actually walls life orb Medicham (mostly bulky psychics, Cofagrigus, and more defensively oriented Spiritomb sets) which kind of eliminates the point of setting up as Gallade. The meta is also so much faster just in general that you'll be switching in and out a lot, giving Medicham's larger initial power a lot more use than it had in past generations.
 
BrandonBeast said:
In BW Crawdaunt was ru and now its BL. Why is that?
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In gen 6 Crawdaunt received Aqua Jet as an egg move. This allowed it to function adequately against offense, as it was previously pretty mediocre against offensive teams. On top of this, the Knock Off buff gave it an even stronger adaptability boosted Dark STAB, meaning that defensive switch ins to it are quite rare. Also, Steel not resisting Dark helps.
 
Why is Jellicent suddenly S rank on the viability thread? Before ORAS it used to be garbage but now it's suddenly god tier for some reason. Is it just a big inside joke or did Jellicent suddenly become good?
 
Durant said:
Why is Jellicent suddenly S rank on the viability thread? Before ORAS it used to be garbage but now it's suddenly god tier for some reason. Is it just a big inside joke or did Jellicent suddenly become good?
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No, it's not an inside joke haha.
Couple of reasons: firstly, it was majorly affected by the tier shift in that it lost competition for its roles by the Pokemon that left. Slowking was a pretty big competitior for the bulky water slot, despite Jellicent having good uses over it. Doublade leaving made Jellicent much better as a ghost type and spin blocker, which is what doublade was used for to some extent. In addition, Cobalion has become one of the biggest threats to the tier, and being able to fully counter it makes Jellicent a very good mon, another thing doublade did. By extension, fighting types usage has increased with doublade leaving, and Jellicent excels at handling them. Being able to check a wide plethora of Pokemon thanks to its typing and reliable recovery and being able to shut down other walls and support Pokemon with taunt make Jellicent so good in this meta. If I missed anything feel free to add on.
 
Also, Flygon + the rise of Cobalion really killed the use of Drapion and Houndoom, while Noivern (now gone) hurt Virizion and Tangrowth, leaving Jellicent's best checks much rarer than they used to be in the previous meta. Further, Jellicent was rising in popularity pretty quickly even before the tier shift and I think the shift really just cemented the realization that Jellicent was very, very good (and it really was never garbage lol, just sort of outclassed).
 
Hi, I'm new to RU and have been lurking and reading some RU discussions about viability and stuff for quite some time. How will the RU metagame be affected if Cobalion, an S-rank threat, would move up to UU by usage come August? (and it could be just me but it seems that UU is known for stealing RU's top-tier mons) And will the addition of Trevenant be any significant?
 
For trev, I don't think it'd be TOO signficant. We've had Gourgiest-Super, Virizion and Tangrowth for a while and while they don't perfectly capture what Trev would be doing each one really captures a specific set that Trev might want to use, but likely better (Defensive, Lum SD and Band). I think it's likely to be regulated to low ladder with a few higher ladder players using a weirder set and not subleech (band seems likely? since Tangrowth doesn't completely outclass it there but has regenerator and knock off vs Natural Cure and Shadow Claw).

Cobalion would pretty much completely shake up the tier because it's just so good. The tier is pretty centered around not giving too many free turns to Coba, and I def think that things like fast Drapion and Skuntank would make a comeback, while Virizion and Scrafty would have more room to do what they want. Togetic would be better for defog, Aromatisse would be slightly better, and so on; generally, anything that loses to Coba gets a big boost. Jellicent might be less good in a meta where it no longer checks THE top threat *and* no longer has a super dangerous knock off absorber/dark type punisher all over the place.

Editted (after EonX's post but didnt want to make my own new post): also Durant would be able to really stand out a lot more when it's not competing so hard with cobalion, and yeah Flygon is a big one since i think coba's ubiquity really holds back the popularity of defog flygon
 
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Jirachirite said:
Hi, I'm new to RU and have been lurking and reading some RU discussions about viability and stuff for quite some time. How will the RU metagame be affected if Cobalion, an S-rank threat, would move up to UU by usage come August? (and it could be just me but it seems that UU is known for stealing RU's top-tier mons) And will the addition of Trevenant be any significant?
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Trevenant may be interesting if only due to the fact that it would give us a defensive Ghost-type that isn't vulnerable to status (which is something every Ghost-type in the tier currently struggles with) and is capable of making most Pokemon in the tier think twice about trying to set up on it. Outside of the appeal of Natural Cure, I just don't see it being able to have a major impact on the tier when many of the best Pokemon beat it pretty reliably (Scrafty, Houndoom, SubSD Cobalion, Delphox, etc.)

Cobalion leaving the tier would definitely shake things up. It is arguably the most potent offensive threat in the tier right now and is partially the reason that Jellicent is the top defensive threat atm. Lord Death Man covered most things, but also keep in mind that some slower offensive threats, such as Houndoom, Mega Glalie, and non-Scarf Flygon would also become even better than they already are since they generally lose to Cobalion. (especially Mega Glalie. At least Doom and Flygon keep Cobalion from switching in safely thanks to a STAB move)
 
Jirachirite said:
How will the RU metagame be affected if Cobalion, an S-rank threat, would move up to UU by usage come August?
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I'll give a more in-depth answer to this.

Basically, the biggest change that would occur with Cobalion leaving is not so much revolved around its influence as an offensive threat, but the utility it provides for offensive teams due to its defensive value. For instance, Cobalion is one of the few things that keeps Choice Scarf Tyrantrum, Mega Glalie, and other such Pokemon from rampaging opposing offensive teams without relying on faster revenge killers that can't switch in. Without it, many of these offensive teams would be forced to shift to a more defensive state in order to more adequately handle these Pokemon. As a threat on its own, it's just another powerful Pokemon (or "broken" depending on how some think of it), but the utility that's lost by it leaving would likely put purely offensive teams at an inherent disadvantage in comparison to other archetypes/playstyles due to their lack of options.
 
Guidorealmsmc Charcoal can be used, but Delphox's lack of physical bulk and vulnerability to entry hazards generally makes Life Orb a much stronger option on it if you're wanting to switch moves.

a0161613 Cobalion almost always wants to use a Jolly nature as, despite its painfully average Special Defense, it has a fantastic defensive typing to still tank resisted special attacks like Dark Pulse and Grass Knot with relative ease.
 
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