Ninjask [QC: 3/3] [GP: 2/2]

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taken over from rhythms, blinkie, and snobalt.

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QC: Anty / Raiza. / TONE114
GP: Minus / GatoDelFuego
[OVERVIEW]

Ninjask is the fastest Pokemon in the entire unboosted metagame with a blazing fast Speed stat of 160. Ninjask can hit for moderate damage with U-turn while pivoting out to a teammate. While Ninjask's typing does not excel offensively or defensively, it can make its way into VoltTurn core thanks to its immunity to Ground-type moves and resistance to Fighting- and Grass-type moves. However, Ninjask's Attack stat is mediocre at best, and it struggles to break through much of the tier. Ninjask's terrible bulk, weaknesses to common types, and weakness to Stealth Rock make it very hard to switch in. This also keeps Ninjask from being a better Baton Passer. Ninjask's offensive movepool is also incredibly small and weak.

[SET]
name: Choice Band
move 1: U-turn
move 2: Aerial Ace
move 3: X-Scissor
move 4: Night Slash
item: Choice Band
ability: Infiltrator / Speed Boost
nature: Adamant
evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

U-turn is decently powerful and grabs momentum while hitting important Pokemon such as Grumpig for solid damage. Aerial Ace hits Fighting-types, such as Poliwrath, that would otherwise resist U-turn and has solid coverage all-around. Fire-types that resist U-turn, such as Ninetales and Rapidash, are also hit by Aerial Ace harder than anything else Ninjask carries. X-Scissor is used alongside U-turn because it's more consistent later in the match when Ninjask will not want to switch out and is more powerful than Aerial Ace. Night Slash hits Misdreavus, and is neutral on Steel-types such as Probopass.

Set Details
========

252 EVs in Attack and Speed maximize offensive capability. Instead of running 4 HP EVs, 4 Defense EVs are used to give Ninjask an odd HP number, allowing it to switch into Stealth Rock twice versus once. An Adamant nature is chosen because Ninjask needs all the power it can get, and a Jolly nature doesn't let Ninjask outspeed anything relevant. Choice Band is used to increase Ninjask's damage output. It's preferable over Life Orb because Ninjask is worn down way too quickly to afford even more recoil, and it's going to be clicking U-turn most of the time anyway. Infiltrator gets around Substitutes, while Speed Boost could be used because it allows Ninjask to do a bit more work late-game without fearing Choice Scarf, sun, or rain; however, neither is very useful in the long run.

Usage Tips
========

Ninjask should really stick to clicking U-turn early in the match because it allows Ninjask to grab momentum and get out of its checks. Later in the match, Ninjask can be a little bit looser. X-Scissor is more useful at this point to clean up because it's more powerful than U-turn and doesn't make Ninjask switch out. Ninjask absolutely needs entry hazards off of the field, so remove them as soon as possible or do not switch Ninjask in. While Ninjask can't really switch into much by itself, it can sort of switch in to some Grass- and Fighting-type Pokemon thanks to its 4x resistance to their STAB moves, but it has to be careful. Being worn down is a big issue, so try to keep it in a range where priority from the likes of Pawniard or Mightyena will not KO it. Avoid status, specifically paralysis and burn, at all costs because it absolutely neuters all of Ninjask's offensive capability.

Team Options
========

Electric-types, such as Zebstrika, Raichu, and Rotom-F, keep up momentum via Volt Switch and offers great defensive synergy. Entry hazard removal is required no matter what, so a Rapid Spin users Armaldo or a Defog user like Pelipper make for good partners. Water-types, such as Simipour, Carracosta, and Floatzel, and Fighting-types, such as Poliwrath, appreciate Ninjask's ability to weaken Grass-types and Psychic-types, respectively. Probopass traps Steel-types and can form a VoltTurn core with Ninjask. Entry hazard support is appreciated. Roselia is a solid Spikes setter; Golem and Piloswine are solid Stealth Rock setters. Setup Pokemon, such as Ninetales, Carracosta, and Pawniard, all appreciate the pivoting abilities that Ninjask provides. Ground-, Fire-, and Fighting-types as a collective group are good partners because they can hit Steel-types. Torterra, Ninetales, and Poliwrath are a few examples. Note that Fire-types do stack a Stealth Rock weakness though.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============

Baton Pass could be viable thanks to Speed Boost, but it's really mediocre due to Ninjask's subpar defensive typing and poor bulk. Final Gambit is useful to take something out early game. Giga Drain hurts Carracosta and Barbaracle, making Shell Smashing on Ninjask a shaky option. Something interesting to note is that +2 Carracosta is unable to outspeed Ninjask, so Giga Drain can also be used to revenge kill Carracosta. Aqua Jet and Stone Edge will both OHKO Ninjask, however. Simply using U-turn to pivot into a Grass-type is typically a much safer option.

Checks and Counters
===================

**Passive Damage**: Stealth Rock strips 50% of Ninjask's health every time Ninjask comes in, making it a huge thorn in Ninjask's side. Other residual statuses, such as a burn and poison, will wear down Ninjask to the point of being KOed. This is incredibly noticeable because Ninjask is going to be switching in and out a lot, so it must remain healthy. Burns also make Ninjask even weaker than before.

**Physical Walls**: Ninjask only has base 90 Attack, which leaves bulky Pokemon such as Carracosta and Stunfisk shrugging off its attacks. Its only hope against these Pokemon is to utilize U-turn to gain momentum.

**Rock-types**: Carracosta, Barbaracle, and Golem all can KO in return via their STAB moves. Rock Blast from Golem or Armaldo will always KO Ninjask. Probopass gains momentum from Ninjask being on the field because Ninjask cannot touch Probopass, allowing it to Volt Switch with ease. Carracosta and Barbaracle can set up on a U-turn.

**Revenge Killers**: Ninjask lacks bulk, leaving it vulnerable to priority and Choice Scarf users. Some examples include Pawniard, Basculin, Mightyena for priority, and Mr. Mime, Sawsbuck, and Rotom-F for Choice Scarf.
 
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Questions for QC:

Should I slash Night Slash after Giga Drain? I've not used it over Giga Drain, I don't see the value. Steel-types brush it off, it doesn't hit anything relevant (I think?), so should it just be moved to Moves and not on the main set?

Baton Pass. Need to test the set, but I don't see the merit in it :/. Questionable set, so I don't know. Just need more testing before adding, if I should at all.
 
Night Slash 2HKOes Misdreavus and Dusknoir but neither are that common at the moment so Moves should be fine, especially becase Giga Drain is pretty important to break annoying Carracosta + Roselia cores.

No opinion on Baton Pass, I guess it has gotten slightly better with the SmashPass ban but I haven't used that set enough to say whether it should get a set or not.
 
Night slash is worth a slash as like giga drain it is p situational, as firstly it doesnt really let u break rose + costa cores considering it does like 10% more than x-sciss and they can switch back to rose, and the only reason you are using it is if there is a costa about to try and set up on you. The lasts lot isnt gonna get used much as 999/1000 uturning for momentum is just better, and missy is relevant enough

I think the bp set is generally pretty mediocre but have you tried this set:
Ninjask @ Leftovers
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 216 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def / 36 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Substitute
- Baton Pass
- X-Scissor
- Aerial Ace
Im not too sure if it is worth a set by itself but it is pretty solid at providing an offensive presence and using its speed to its advantage (speed for zeb, max attack is p much needed to OHKO jumpluff w/ rocks - i guess a bulkier spread could be used but i cant find any benchmarks so w/e)

e: the main reason im not sure about this is bc you are basically doing what the over spread is doing by gaining momentum as ngl its hard to pass a sub w/o it getting broken after BP
 
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Yeah that set seems like the best way to do bp Ninjask, but it still seems really outclassed by Illumise (lol something being outclassed by Illumise) because it's so much easier to break Ninjask's subs, it lacks Encore / Thunder Wave, and the 4x stealth rock weakness is a pretty big deal since you're generally not going to want to run a mediocre hazard remover just to support a support mon. I'd say pass on this being a set for now (pun was unintended but lol).
 
Night slash is worth a slash as like giga drain it is p situational, as firstly it doesnt really let u break rose + costa cores considering it does like 10% more than x-sciss and they can switch back to rose, and the only reason you are using it is if there is a costa about to try and set up on you. The lasts lot isnt gonna get used much as 999/1000 uturning for momentum is just better, and missy is relevant enough

I think the bp set is generally pretty mediocre but have you tried this set:
Ninjask @ Leftovers
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 216 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def / 36 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Substitute
- Baton Pass
- X-Scissor
- Aerial Ace
Im not too sure if it is worth a set by itself but it is pretty solid at providing an offensive presence and using its speed to its advantage (speed for zeb, max attack is p much needed to OHKO jumpluff w/ rocks - i guess a bulkier spread could be used but i cant find any benchmarks so w/e)

e: the main reason im not sure about this is bc you are basically doing what the over spread is doing by gaining momentum as ngl its hard to pass a sub w/o it getting broken after BP
Nono this set is pretty great against Sun and Rain if you slash Protect after Substitute (at that point you could also run u-turn over bp lol) I think it has a place on ninjask. (Can probably run a more offensive item in that case idk) but I don't care much.

However speed boost on cb is probably worth a slash for the same reasons since sometimes you can clean late game and the boost is pretty useful IMO + sub isn't great blablabla
 
Ready for QC! Implemented stuff from this thread and the last thread, while taking some stuff from Snobalt 's thread for this one as well. Not including Baton Pass at the moment. Felt underwhelmed while toying with it, and the general vibe I was picking up is that it's not worthy of a set... Idk...
 
offensive bp seems worth a set at least, it may kinda suck but it has a decent enough niche and it's fuckin ninjask lol

I might check this more thoroughly later but yeah, definitely include the BP set imo.
 
Overview:
'Despite having decent power, Ninjask isn't very strong at all.' - Clarify this bc it contradicts itself

set:
When talking about giga drain mention that it is mainly used to weaken a costa trying to set up on it and also you arent RKing smashed costa as it OHKOs you at +2
Actually thinking about it now im doubting whether giga drain needs a mention at all as it does a solid 1% more to offensive costa (defensive is much less seen), does less than x scissor to barbaracle, though it 2HKOs golem you arent staying in as even if you predict rocks you will then be OHKOd by a +2 (wp) sucker punch. It is also a horrible move to be locked into. Ofc change the rest of the analysis regarding this (ie nature, UT)

TO: You can use rocks w/ defog considering that is easily the most reliable way to get rid of hazards
I dont think mime deserves that much of a special mention as every offensive mon appreciates healing wish support and mime is pretty mediocre otherwise

Overall this analysis is solid however im not going to stamp yet as it hasnt been decided if the BP set should get its own set (i will try and get this sorted soon as the qc can be a bit slow about stuff like this) - like galbia said something like dual stab/protect or sub/bp

unfixable
 
So far the verdict is not to give it a BP analysis

Buff up c&c as it is looking a bit bare (maybe change stealth rock to passive damage and mention any bit of damage puts in the 2HKO of rocks)
1/3
dgriYMI.gif
 
Anty hey i implemented your check!! it was kinda unclear to me: should i de-slash giga drain? other than that one thing i think this is ready for 2/3. o_o
 
The only other options that I can think of that Ninjask could run are Final Gambit and Sleep Talk - the former of which does a good chunk from full health despite its low HP stat (guaranteed 263 damage if its taken none prior), so that could warrent use over Giga Drain and Night Slash considering Ninjask's blazing speed. Sleep Talk lets it absorb Sleep Powder from sh*t like Jumpluff and Weepinbell. Once again tho these are rlly situational so idk what the best option for it is. At least give those two OO mentions tho.
 
[OVERVIEW]
in the writeup, don't focus on the quickpass set, as you said in OO is mediocre, i wouldnt even include it in the overview but do as you wish
mention that Ninjask's high speed and infiltrator make it a decent revengkiller, as it's able to outspeed even setup sweepers such as regice after they got speed boosts.
its speed also allows it to afford running items such as Choice Band, while still being viable as a revengekiller.

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========
mention x-scissor is used to clean the opposing team as aerial ace is weaker
move giga drain to OO, also ninjask can't revengekill carracosta as aqua jet KOs at +2, remove that part.

Usage Tips
========
since giga drain is oo, remove the part mentioning it.
mention that x-scissor has to be used mainly in late-game to clean the opposing team.
mention it can't switch in on strong attackers, though it can kinda check grass- and fighting-types, still being weary about coverage moves though
mention ninjask should avoid being damaged also by other residual damage such as poison, as it will put it in range of most priority users such as mightyena.
mention ninjask should avoid being paralyzed and burned, as both these two status heavily cripple it.

Team Options
========
mention why entry hazard support is appreciated
mention some water-types that appreciate removal of grass-types
mention pokemon that appreciate the weakening of foes and gain of momentum to find set up opportunities etc
fighting-types also appreciate that ninjask is able to revengekill and pressure psychic-types

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============
add final gambit

Checks and Counters
===================

**Passive Damage**: Will-O-Wisp isn't a status, just say burn, and add toxic too, also mention that burn makes it weaker from the offensive side too.

**Rock-type**: as giga drain is oo, remove mentions, and add that carra and barbaracle can also set up on its u-turn, and carracosta can easily KO ninjask with aqua jet at +2. also i would specifically add probopass, as it resists bug-type moves too and can gain momentum on Ninjask's switch.

unfixable QC 2/3
 
You should mention Offensive Speed Boost Ninjask with protect and Life Orb in OO. It's pretty cool as a revenge-killer because it outspeeds every scarfed pokemon after a protect, and outspeeds Chlorophyll mons/Swift Swim mons after a protect as well (not to mention it OHKOes Sawsbuck and Victrebeel). Also, because it is so fast you can invest in SpA so you can properly revenge Barbaracle with Giga Drain.
 
Is there a specific reason as to why Ninjask runs max speed?

I made some calculations and it is possible for Ninjask to live some priority hits with minimal investment.
  • 252+ Atk Piloswine Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 12 Def Ninjask: 218-260 (82.8 - 98.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
  • +2 252+ Atk Carracosta Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 32 Def Ninjask: 222-262 (84.4 - 99.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
True. These calculations may not seem all too impressive, but being able to live to tell the tale and U-Turn out of danger allows Ninjask to come in as death fodder later, and in some cases stack an additional turn of residual damage onto the enemy Pokemon. With 12 EVs in defense Ninjask is still capable of outspeeding Electrode by a single point, whereas with 32 defensive EVs Ninjask beats positive natured 75s and neutral natured 85s that wield a scarf.

~
 
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you know im not QC, but ill help out


-change nature to adamant and change in set details
-for TO, include that its fits best on offense and balance
-for oo, jolly can be used to outspeed scarf mime and anything lower (rotom-f as well)
-for c&c, id add fire types and priority, as mons like ninetales and torkoal can take any hit and ohko and they resist the move that ninjask spams
 
unfixable you have till the end of sunday (which would be 3 weeks since you got the second check) to write this up or i will reassign

:V
 
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