Are there different approaches for teambuilding in regards to ladder and tournament? I know both are fundamentally different, so I was wondering if the teambuilding approaches are different too.
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Resource ORAS OU Simple Questions, Simple Answers MKII (Read the OP First!) (Now with 100% more Rules!!!)
- Thread starter ginganinja
- Start date
Number 1 on viability could potentially be Life Orb Mixed Hoopa-Unbound. It's got crazy offensive stats of 160 Atk / 170 SpA and a cool movepool to back it up. Hyperspace Fury, Psyshock, Focus Blast, Gunk Shot is what's optimal in most circumstances though there are variations such as using Grass Knot for something like Hippowdon, Drain Punch for longevity alongside offensive presence, and I've even heard of some cases of Hidden Power Ice for various Garchomp and Gliscor. Move-wise, Hyperspace Fury and Psyshock are the main STABs, with Focus Blast rounding off the coverage by hitting Steel- and Dark-types such as Ferrothorn, Bisharp, Tyranitar, and Weavile, and Gunk Shot for various Fairy-types such as Clefable, Mega Altaria, and Sylveon. EVs are pretty custom but it's mostly something on the lines of 88 Atk / 168 SpA / 252 Spe with a Hasty nature.
Mixed Choice Scarf Hoopa-U is pretty good too combining its already good offensive presence with a boosted Speed stat to deal with more offensive-inclined teams better. Has pretty much the same moves as Life Orb but again could be customized a little bit more. Not a really a fan of using Dark Pulse and Hyperspace Fury together because obviously they're both Dark-type moves. I like Hyperspace Fury more just because of the wallbreaking potential and hitting special walls such as Tornadus-T is cool though Dark Pulse nets you better rolls against the likes of Slowbro and Rotom-W. Nasty Plot Hoopa-U is also pretty legit from what I've seen and used to further increase its already-good matchup against defensive teams.
Hoopa-U isn't really outclassed by Hoopa-C, it's more so the other way round because Hoopa-U's got better offensive stats in general. Hoopa-C's got a better typing defensive-wise and can spinblock, among other things.
AV Hoopa U is another great set that provides a reliable switch into most special attackers that can hit as hard as a truck.
What are the general roles needed for a rain team and what mons do the role best? (For Rain offense)
Rain teams are more or less offensive. A kind of format I like to use is more or less like this: 1 Rain Setter (Politoed), 2 Swift Swim users (Kingdra + Mega Swampert for example), Backup Rain Setter + Utility (Klefki for example), Grass-type check (Tornadus-T for example), and Electric-type check (Raikou for example). Obviously these aren't constraints in the sense that you have to follow them. For example, if you've got Mega Swampert, it might suffice as your Electric-type check leaving a spot available for some other utility such as momentum grabbing etc.
In terms of Pokemon fulfilling roles, rain setter role kinda mandates Politoed because of auto-rain and all that. In terms of backup setters there are the likes of Klefki, Lati@s, and Azelf that are always available. In terms of Swift Swim abuser you've got stuff like Kingdra, Kabutops, Mega Swampert, and Omastar and in my opinion are the four best Swift Swim users out there in terms of general viability. In general Pokemon such as Raikou, Mega Manectric, Tornadus-T, Manaphy, and Keldeo fit great on rain for various reasons. Momentum-gaining, having accurate powerful moves at their disposal are just a few examples.
This is a really general thing but just remember rain doesn't mandate a strict format to follow. It's more or less 1 rain setter + 2 Swift Swim users + 3 Pokemon that benefit from rain or from your team.
In terms of Pokemon fulfilling roles, rain setter role kinda mandates Politoed because of auto-rain and all that. In terms of backup setters there are the likes of Klefki, Lati@s, and Azelf that are always available. In terms of Swift Swim abuser you've got stuff like Kingdra, Kabutops, Mega Swampert, and Omastar and in my opinion are the four best Swift Swim users out there in terms of general viability. In general Pokemon such as Raikou, Mega Manectric, Tornadus-T, Manaphy, and Keldeo fit great on rain for various reasons. Momentum-gaining, having accurate powerful moves at their disposal are just a few examples.
This is a really general thing but just remember rain doesn't mandate a strict format to follow. It's more or less 1 rain setter + 2 Swift Swim users + 3 Pokemon that benefit from rain or from your team.
From what I've seen, ladder building is more using whatever you feel like, because the ladder is fairly unpredictable, but tour building involves scouting your opponent and building a team to deal with their personal style. For instance, if they are known as a primarily offensive player, you would bring rain vs them.
Another thing would be style. In tournament games, stall is pretty much non-existent (I'm talking prestigious tournaments such as WCoP and Smogon Tour, not OU Room Tours or OLT because that's a ladder tournament obviously), while on the the Showdown ladder, stall pretty much dominates the upper ladder.
I might use Mega Pinsir as my Grass check, so what would be a good secondary swift swim abuser that pairs well with kingdra?
Kabutops as it can break the specially defensive mons that can handle Kingdra while Kingdra handles physically defensive ones for Kabutops
I'd personally go with Kabutops because you get Rapid Spin support from that as well as an answer to Talonflame, which threatens both Kingdra and Mega Pinsir quite a bit. Mega Pinsir does seem very cool to use on a rain team though.
Kabutops is nice because it beats Talonflame, spins for Pinsir and beats special walls. However, Kabutops makes the weakness to electric types, Keldeo and Skarmory bigger, so something like Celebi (2nd rain setter) or Seismitoad (3th abuser) should be considered as 5th member. If you don't want to go for Kabutops, Zapdos and Seismitoad are also nice options.
Omastar is also great paired with Kingdra because they share checks, and one can break those checks so the other can sweep. It also provides a solid Talonflame check. Seismitoad is pretty underwhelming imo when used as a swimmer, but if you desperately need an electric immunity it works. I'd go with either Omastar or Kabutops like DarkNostalgia said.
Thanks for all the suggestions!
I really appreciate it
I really appreciate it
Well since we're all talking about rain I made a rain team and I think it needs some work. Could somebody help me?
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Cool should I post the import here so anybody else who wants to help can or pm u?
What checks and counters does Hoopa-Unbound have?
Unfortunately, Hoopa-U doesn't really have "counters", as nothing can switch into it with impunity multiple times and threaten it out at the same time (except X-Scissors AV Drapion, but yeah...). Its Mixed LO Attacker set especially is very hard to play around, as it not only hits very hard, but its expansive movepool allows it to literally choose its counters ala Greninja. Its Scarf set is relatively easier to play against, as it has to lock itself into one move, but it has a better time against offense and a wrong prediction can be costly.
As for actual defensive checks, Mandibuzz stands a decent chance against most Hoopa variants and has reliable recovery, but it's weak to rocks and +2 Focus Blast hurts, while Defensive M-Scizor checks the physically oriented set better but falls to the Nasty Plot set as +2 Dark Pulse OHKOes.
Offensive checks (from the physical side) are easier to find thanks to its low 80/60 bulk and 80 base speed, with Pursuit trappers being particulary effective because they can catch a fleeing Hoopa after a HF defense drop (especially ScarfTar because it's both faster and resists it STABs, but Focus Blast OHKOes), so almost any physical attacker with 80+ Base Speed should do the trick (watch out for Scarf Hoopa).
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Klefki does well against non fire punch variants and Mandibuzz does decent in general, but those are really the only real checks, as everything else is 2HKOd
Um there are more checks than that. Faster mons with a strong physical attack can check since Hoopa-U's physical bulk is crap.
I was speaking of defensive checks, of course there are a ton of offensive checks
Is it common for Heatran to run max Speed and Timid? I'm thinking of running Double Dance Lando-T on a team but it only EVs to 276 Speed but Heatran can reach 278 (I know I can speed creep but my team is more balanced/semi-stall so I want it to be fairly bulky but still decently strong)
It's not that uncommon
Timid:0/0/0/252/4/252 11.460%
Timid:0/0/4/252/0/252 3.977%
Timid:4/0/0/252/0/252 3.242%
Did the ladder on Showdown reset? Because for some reason it says that I haven't played any games and I have 0 points.