VGC Sand Team VGC 2015

Furfy

Furfy

Hi hi. I am attempting to create a sand team in the VGC format and just need assistance with it. The first six are the team that I constructed, and the other five are ones I have to work with. I am going to avoid posting EVs because I don't know them off of the top of my head.

Choice Scarf (Jolly) Tyranitar - Used to set up sand. Usually open with him. The one problem I have with him is that if I pair him with others, they cannot use Earthquake because he does not know protect due to the scarf. I attempted to use Fire Blast for Ferrothorn coverage but found a weakness with ground types which was unfortunate, hence the Ice Punch.
- Low Kick
- Crunch
- Rock Slide
- Ice Punch

  • 4 HP
  • 252 Atk
  • 252 Spe
Mega Garchomp (Jolly) - Used as my mega. I figured I needed a mega and his ability would be perfect. He tends to get outsped and dies though, so I am not sure what to do. I taught him Dragon Claw for a stab move but did not find enough use with it, so I ultimately returned to Sword's Dance. Is Sword's Dance the correct option?
- Swords Dance
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Protect

  • 4 HP
  • 252 Atk
  • 252 Spe
Life Orb (Adamant) Excadrill - My main sweeper to be honest. He chunks the enemy team, but still very affected by earthquake and fire. I usually open with him, which eliminates any possibility to use Earthquake to start because it will OHKO Tyranitar. Hence the need for Talonflame. An issue I have encountered is Landorus-T, this monster just completely shuts down the majority of my team.
- Iron Head
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Protect

  • 252 Atk
  • 4 SpD
  • 252 Spe
Weakness Policy (Quiet) Aegislash - Great special attacker and wide guard helps a lot with Earthquake. I struggle predicting when to Wide Guard and when to attack, which hinders the potential of Aegislash, so maybe it isn't right for me. But I guess with enough practice, anything can become possible. I considered going Sacred Sword over Flash Cannon, but decided that I wanted to deal with those pesky Fairies.
- Shadow Ball
- Flash Cannon
- Wide Guard
- King's Shield

  • 252 HP
  • 100 SpA
  • 156 SpD

Assault Vest (Adamant) Conkeldurr - Great special tank while dealing decent damage. Cons I guess are he still gets chunked by my own Earthquake if I use it. I struggle knowing when Knock off is worth it. What kind of items are worth knocking off, even if it is resistant? Is knocking off even while resistant ever worth it?
- Knock Off
- Mach Punch
- Drain Punch
- Ice Punch

  • 20 HP
  • 244 Atk
  • 12 Def
  • 228 SpD
  • 4 Spe

Expert Belt (Modest) Gastrodon - Storm Drain OP. However, any grass essentially ruins him. I still struggle with rain teams just because the rain overrides all sandstorm and kind of shuts me down. I am unsure for Gastrodon's place on my team. Is it worth an entire slot just to have coverage against water? If I want to fit Talonflame into my team, Gastrodon might have to go, which leaves me completely open to water.
- Earth Power
- Ice Beam
- Scald
- Protect

  • 180 HP
  • 108 Def
  • 212 SpA
  • 4 SpD
  • 4 Spe
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

(Adamant) Bisharp
- Iron Head
- Sucker Punch
- Knock Off
- Protect

(Adamant) Mega Mawille
- Sucker Punch
- Iron Head
- Play Rough
- Protect

(Adamant) Talonflame - Probably Choice Banded
- Brave Bird
- Will-O-Wisp
- Flare Blitz
- U-Turn

(Bold) Klefki - I just found setting up screens a waste of my turns with sand.
- Foul Play
- Reflect
- Light Screen
- Thunder Wave

(Modest) Sylveon
- Hyper Voice
- Psyshock
- Hyper Beam
- Shadow Ball

Any help would be much appreciated. I am pretty new to competitive so most EV spreads are copied from suggested.

Ferrothorn really bodies my team as is. I tried running Fire Blast on Tyranitar but I found no way to deal with Dragon/Grounds.
 
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i would change the life orb on excadrill to a focus sash, because excadrill is very frail, and focus sash would guarantee it one more turn on the field. if you don't like earthquake on excadrill next to tyranitar, drill run is a great option :) your main sand core (tyranitar/garchomp/excadrill) is a bit intimidate weak, so i would suggest running a mixed set on tyranitar, for example:
tyranitar.png


Tyranitar @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Rock Slide
- Ice Beam
- Dark Pulse
- Fire Blast

if you plan to have earthquake on your team, you kind of need to have at least one to three ground immune mons beside garchomp so that it can use it easily, so a good option is togekiss, who can set up tailwind for garchomp who is kinda sluggish and redirect attacks to it so that garchomp can set up more easily. your talonflame would also be a good partner for garchomp, as it can set up tailwind and appreciates spread moves alongside its strong priority attacks. :)

a good set is this:

talonflame.png


Talonflame @ Life Orb/Safety Goggles
Ability: Gale Wings
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 64 Def / 188 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Brave Bird
- Flare Blitz
- Tailwind
- Protect

- Beats opposing life orb 4/252/252 adamant talonflame with brave bird (survives hit and OHKO's back)
- Outspeeds mega kangaskhan's sucker punch by one point

i agree with mishimono, your thread may be removed soon, but i hope this helps :)
 
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This thread will most likely be removed as you have limited description and no EVs. I would be happy to help if you add that. I am not a moderator so I cannot remove this thread.
 
Furfy said:
The thing about Talonflame, is that between Life Orb, Sandstorm, and Recoil won't it nearly kill itself after one move?


And I will edit for EVs.
Click to expand...
you could have safety goggles talonflame to avoid sandstorm damage, who also avoids rage powder from amoonguss and is immune to spore, so it can hit amoonguss' partner. just does a bit less damage
 
Draconid997 said:
you could have safety goggles talonflame to avoid sandstorm damage, who also avoids rage powder from amoonguss and is immune to spore, so it can hit amoonguss' partner. just does a bit less damage
Click to expand...

While practicing on Battle Spot I haven't encountered many Amoonguss, are they prominent? Are Safety Goggles worth giving up the extra damage? Is Talonflame meant to just be a sacrifice 1 for 1? And who would I get rid of on my current roster for Talonflame?

Edit: And is the special attacking Tyranitar much better? For some reason I just prefer physical, but I can obtain another one if it is marginally better.
 
Furfy said:
While practicing on Battle Spot I haven't encountered many Amoonguss, are they prominent? Are Safety Goggles worth giving up the extra damage? Is Talonflame meant to just be a sacrifice 1 for 1? And who would I get rid of on my current roster for Talonflame?

Edit: And is the special attacking Tyranitar much better? For some reason I just prefer physical, but I can obtain another one if it is marginally better.
Click to expand...

- Amoonguss are the 4th most common pokemon on battle spot
- Saftey goggles are imo worth using for decreased recoil
- talonflame is really good for immediate damage output
- Mixed tyranitar is just as good as physical tyranitar, but removes the intimidate weakness, although you can definitely use physical Ttar :)
 
Draconid997 said:
- Amoonguss are the 4th most common pokemon on battle spot
- Saftey goggles are imo worth using for decreased recoil
- talonflame is really good for immediate damage output
- Mixed tyranitar is just as good as physical tyranitar, but removes the intimidate weakness, although you can definitely use physical Ttar :)
Click to expand...

Who should I swap out for Talonflame? Any suggestions?

I read that starting Tyranitar / Excadrill first is usually ideal in order to not waste Sandstorm turns, is that true? Sorry for all of the questions, I guess I am more of an amateur than I thought.
 
Furfy said:
Who should I swap out for Talonflame? Any suggestions?

I read that starting Tyranitar / Excadrill first is usually ideal in order to not waste Sandstorm turns, is that true? Sorry for all of the questions, I guess I am more of an amateur than I thought.
Click to expand...
a good team framework for these weather core + combo teams is
- 2x mons in offensive combo (e.g. Garchomp + Talonflame or salamence + amoonguss)
- 2x mons in weather core (e.g. tyranitar + excadrill)
- 2x support mons (well 3 if you are using one in offensive combo like amoonguss)

this should help you get an idea of who to swap talonflame with. personally i would swap the conkeldurr
 
Draconid997 said:
a good team framework for these weather core + combo teams is
- 2x mons in offensive combo (e.g. Garchomp + Talonflame or salamence + amoonguss)
- 2x mons in weather core (e.g. tyranitar + excadrill)
- 2x support mons (well 3 if you are using one in offensive combo like amoonguss)

this should help you get an idea of who to swap talonflame with. personally i would swap the conkeldurr
Click to expand...

Hm, I guess I only have one support and that is Conkeldurr and that is a stretch. I just don't see a point in bringing in like a Klefki.
 
Furfy said:
Hm, I guess I only have one support and that is Conkeldurr and that is a stretch. I just don't see a point in bringing in like a Klefki.
Click to expand...
aegislash is a good support mon with wide guard, and so is talonflame with tailwind. i would swap gastrodon, as most rain teams run ludicolo who ohko's gastrodon. ferrothorn is a nice check to rain, but then again it stacks weaknesses with aegislash. you could in fact keep conkeldurr, but run a sitrus berry set with wide guard so that it fills aegislash's slot, and run ferrothorn along side it, but that would leave you with all physical attackers, hmmm...

mega salamence is an excellent switch for mega garchomp, and can run a mixed set:

salamence-mega.png

Salamence @ Salamencite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Double-Edge
- Hyper Voice
- Protect

this would mean that you could switch talonflame for something else that supports salamence better, like amoonguss for example.

i would suggest that you change your team to this, so it's a bit more balanced in the Atk/SpA ratio
salamence-mega.png
amoonguss.png
tyranitar.png
excadrill.png
ferrothorn.png
conkeldurr.png
 
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Draconid997 said:
aegislash is a good support mon with wide guard, and so is talonflame with tailwind. i would swap gastrodon, as most rain teams run ludicolo who ohko's gastrodon. ferrothorn is a nice check to rain, but then again it stacks weaknesses with aegislash. you could in fact keep conkeldurr, but run a sitrus berry set with wide guard so that it fills aegislash's slot, and run ferrothorn along side it, but that would leave you with all physical attackers, hmmm...

mega salamence is an excellent switch for mega garchomp, and can run a mixed set:

salamence-mega.png

Salamence @ Salamencite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Double-Edge
- Hyper Voice
- Protect

this would mean that you could switch talonflame for something else that supports salamence better, like amoonguss for example.
Click to expand...

Without Garchomp, I would only have one Pokemon with an ability directly correlating to the sand, is that okay? What are the benefits of having a sandstorm team? Solely the special defense steroid? And without Gastrodon, how would I go about defeating water types? I feel as though any water type would completely shred through nearly my whole composition.
 
- sand teams offer chip damage as well as excadrill's sand rush boost and tyranitar's SpDef boost. this should be okay as you still have great methods of offence. two pokemon that benefit from sand is still great, as you only have 5 turns of sand, and having three or more will be tricky to pull off in a short game (vgc games last 5-8 turns on average)
- ferrothorn crushes water types, and is the best answer to most full rain teams. also, dont forget that tyranitar can change the weather, so its best to keep him in the back vs rain, also, amoonguss can redirect water attacks with rage powder, so the rated/edited team doesn't have that bad a matchup vs water types
 
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this is an importable version of the team i suggest you use :)

Salamence @ Salamencite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Hyper Voice
- Double-Edge
- Draco Meteor
- Protect

Amoonguss @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 188 HP / 164 Def / 156 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Rage Powder
- Spore
- Giga Drain
- Protect

Tyranitar @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Rock Slide
- Ice Beam
- Fire Blast
- Dark Pulse

Excadrill @ Focus Sash
Ability: Sand Rush
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Drill Run
- Rock Slide
- Iron Head
- Protect

Ferrothorn @ Lum Berry
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 204 Atk / 52 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Gyro Ball
- Power Whip
- Leech Seed
- Protect

Conkeldurr @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Guts
EVs: 20 HP / 244 Atk / 12 Def / 228 SpD / 4 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Wide Guard
- Mach Punch
- Drain Punch
- Ice Punch/Knock Off
 
Draconid997 said:
this is an importable version of the team i suggest you use :)

Salamence @ Salamencite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Hyper Voice
- Double-Edge
- Draco Meteor
- Protect

Amoonguss @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 188 HP / 164 Def / 156 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Rage Powder
- Spore
- Giga Drain
- Protect

Tyranitar @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Rock Slide
- Ice Beam
- Fire Blast
- Dark Pulse

Excadrill @ Focus Sash
Ability: Sand Rush
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Drill Run
- Rock Slide
- Iron Head
- Protect

Ferrothorn @ Lum Berry
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 204 Atk / 52 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Gyro Ball
- Power Whip
- Leech Seed
- Protect

Conkeldurr @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Guts
EVs: 20 HP / 244 Atk / 12 Def / 228 SpD / 4 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Wide Guard
- Mach Punch
- Drain Punch
- Ice Punch/Knock Off
Click to expand...
Thank you so much! And would running a physical Tyranitar hinder the composition a lot?
 
Furfy said:
Thank you so much! And would running a physical Tyranitar hinder the composition a lot?
Click to expand...

not really, go for it :) in fact, the physical set has better type coverage, so yeah you can definitely run it :)

EDIT: Looking over the team's weaknesses/resistances, they would be improved a LOT if you swap conk/ferrothorn for aegislash/rotom-wash. they do pretty much the same thing but with perfect synergy with the rest of the team

you resist every single type at least once, and there are only two types that are resisted once over (dark/ghost - tyranitar resists them)

you can check them out on here:
http://www.eggyemporium.com/tools/teambuilder/?373|591|248|530|479w|681
 
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