VGC First risky team in VGC

[slurpy_mac]

Hi! I am bringing you a brand new team that I've decided to create and test after a few weeks of testing in Battle Spot doubles (VGC). Without further ado, here it is:

-------------------- TEAM --------------------

Cresselia @ Sitrus Berry

Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 172 Def / 84 SpD
Bold Nature
- Ice Beam/Thunder Wave
- Psychic
- Moonlight
- Helping Hand
My support mon. Its bulk (120/120/130) is amazing and very difficult to KO. I probably fear Aegislash/Gengar but as most Gengars often do not carry dark pulse, they are not a problem. What I also like about Cresselia is the fact that most people could believe I have a (semi-)Trick Room setter there and Taunt it, and if I predict it well, the rival can almost throw a turn to the bin. I like to pair it with Salamence as a Helping Hand's Double Edge or even a Hyper Voice (mixed M-Mence) can work pretty decent.

Salamence @ Salamenceite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Double-Edge
- Hyper Voice
- Swagger!
- Protect
No one sees that coming, that is for sure. At first you might think it's crazy, I know, but it does make sense. Swagger is used in my own partner Tyranitar, as it carries the Lum Berry and can get rid of the confusion easily, and there we have a fantastic +2 T-Tar with even the chance of Dragon Dancing. Pretty threatening! Hyper voice does a good amount of damage too. The spread is computed so Tyranitar can use Assurance right after a Hyper Voice from Mence so there we go, a 100 BP Dark Type attack with STAB, amazing combo. I have tried a physical Salamence too but most of the times it gets OHKOed and it does not last in the field as much as I would love to, so it's time to try mixed Mence. All credit goes to Sekiam for this strategy.

Tyranitar @ Lum Berry
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Rock Slide
- Protect
- Assurance
Just as I've said, the combo works pretty well. Perhaps assurance is a bit limited due to the fact that it must double target to be useful and a Protect can destroy me but it all comes to good predictions. Rock Slide helps me a lot, and normally gets at least a 25% flinch from my experience and protect is pretty much self-explanatory. Great defence allows me to take hits and Sand Stream is one of the greatest abilities out there to deal with late survivors + scald's burns (if any...).

Blaziken @ Life Orb
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 4 HP/ 40 Atk / 212 SpA / 252 Spe
Mild Nature
- Overheat
- Superpower
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Protect
Pretty frail but it is a mon that helps me get rid of the major threats. I use it to just "clean" the battle field and then battle safely with the remaining ones. With this spread OHKOes all Heatrans, Kangaskhans and Amoongusses out there. That is all about Blaziken, I guess. Is it me or every time I use Stone Edge, it misses?


Aegislash @ Leftovers/Weakness Policy
EVs: 212 HP / 124 SpA / 172 SpD
Modest Nature
- King's Shield
- Wide Guard
- Shadow Ball
- Flash Cannon
Good ol' Aegi... A great Pokémon but yet frail if not used properly. A major threat to my team are the always-used Hyper Voices, Earthquakes and Heat Waves. If I predict them properly, with Wide Guard, the turn is mine. Sylveon needs to get KOed, so Flash Cannon is a must, as well as a Clefable check. Shadow Ball always helps me against other Cresselia out there.

Milotic @ Maranga Berry
Ability: Competitive
EVs: 244 HP / 252 Def / 12 SpA
Modest Nature
- Scald
- Icy Wind
- Recover
- Protect
At first I was sceptical about this mon, but after using it, I like it. Apart from Cresselia's Thunder Waves (if I decide to carry it instead of another attack), Icy Wind is my only speed controller, and this is required in this metagame. Maranga Berry works perfectly and with Recover and the Def investment, it makes Milotic really hard to take down. If scald gets the burn + Sand Stream is up, most pokés are a bit screwed. It walls really well, but fears Thundurus' Thunderbolts.


I'm also bringing you the weaknesses / coverage of my team:

-------------------- Alternatives --------------------

Cresselia ---> Clefable

Clefable @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 108 Def / 28 SpA / 116 SpD / 4 Spe
Bold Nature
- Follow Me
- Ice Beam
- Helping Hand
- Protect

Pretty generic set. Support and redirection from M-Mence, but Cresselia's bulk is awesome too...




Cresselia ---> Clefairy

Clefairy @ Eviolite
Ability: Friend Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 172 Def / 20 SpA / 60 SpD / 4 Spe
Bold Nature
- Follow Me
- Helping Hand
- Moonblast
- Protect
Viable but a bit frail. Redirection + Friend Guard is useful too but again, a bit frail compared with Cresselia... This 2 last alternatives are thought to work with M-Mence.



Aegislash, Blaziken or Milotic ---> Amoonguss

Amoonguss @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Rage Powder
- Spore
- Giga Drain
- Protect

Pretty generic set but again, a bit frail sometimes and too much predictable.


So what do you guys think? Thanks very much in advance for your help!

 

[JBC]

Keep in mind, I'm no great VGC player myself, but I did notice something right off the bat.

Since you already have Icy Wind on Milotic, I'd recommend replace Clefable > Cresselia, and Moonblast > Ice Beam/Helping Hand. I feel Cresselia mainly shines on a Trick Room team. I really don't feel Ice Beam is too important, since you already have Milotic which should be enough for a Pokémon weak to Ice. You also have Rock Slide on Tyranitar, which takes care of Mega Salamence. Moonblast is important to take care of Dragon-types and more. Fairy helps you break down opposing Tyranitar, Garchomp, Hydreigon, Hitmontop, and many more that I didn't mention.

Again, I'm no professional, but those are some small suggestions that could help you out- or not.

 

[Serapis]

Alright, before we begin I'd like to clear something up. In your Cress section you mention that most Gengar don't carry Dark Pulse, which is true (less than 7%). However, what I believe you meant to say is that most Gengar don't carry Shadow Ball which hits Cress every bit as super effectively as Dark Pulse does but with STAB, and it isn't nearly as true. Shadow Ball is Gengar's most common move clocking in at 79.6% usage. For sake of reference, only 60% of Gengar carry Sludge Bomb. With that cleared up, let's move onto the team itself, and what better place to start than the elephant in the room?

So, Swagger Salamence. I understand the logic between the Tyranitar/Salamence combination and the way in which the two of them work together, so I'll be addressing them both at once. Swagger + Lum user is a combination I personally love, but as it stands your two users aren't the greatest. In order for the combination to work, the Swagger user has to be able to get off Swagger off rather easily, meaning that it shouldn't want to do anything else in the turn when it goes for Swagger. This can be complimented by the Swaggered Pokemon getting a double KO on the opponent, preferably before they can move and damage either of your Pokemon. The Swaggered Pokemon should also have some sort of speed advantage, weather that be natural like Terrakion's base 108 speed or Trick Room from the infamous Swagger TR Cress/Lum Metagross of 2013, ensuring that your newly powered up Pokemon can get attacks of is essential. Dragon Dance is cool to that end, however suddenly you find yourself with a two turn setup or a totally passive one turn setup in which you opponent can do whatever they want. Furthermore, Salamence is usually better off Double Edging or Hyper Voicing something. To be quite honest, I don't believe that the combination as you currently have it is viable.

With all of that said, Cresselia, Clefairy and Clefable all have access to Swagger (Amoonguss does too, but it should be running Spore/Rage Powder/Giga Drain/Protect pretty much no matter what). While Swagger isn't great on Clefairy or Clefable, it is an option. On Cresselia, however, Swagger can actually shine quite well, especially when paired with Thunder Wave. The key to gimmicks like this is to have them function even when you're not trying to set it up (the moves involved in the gimmick should all have other uses and be able to function without use in the gimmick if needed). With Thunder Wave Cress can slow down special attackers and Swagger them the turn after that to lower the chance of them moving even further. The problem on 2 turn setup or 1 turn passive setup does still remain, but it's notably less of an issue for two reasons.

1.) Unlike Salamence, Cresselia is a Pokemon that is built to take hits all day long. Beyond that, if it gets KOed it's not that much of an issue because it isn't one of your main offensive threats like Salamence is. Infact, if it gets KOed helping you set up and you've managed to put up a Dragon Dance on Tyranitar, you get a free switch into your Salamence and can begin sweeping.

2.) Cresselia has Thunder Wave. This hearkens back to my point about having speed control so you let your Swaggered Pokemon actually deal damage before it gets KOed. This is made even better by Rock Slide's flinch chance. Here's a bit of a chart:

Paralized Pokemon: 75% chance to move

Paralized Pokemon that had a Rock Slide used against it (counting accuracy): 54% chance to move

Paralized Pokemon that had a Swagger and a Rock Slide used against it (counting accuracy): 28% chance to move

While this is not something to be relied upon, it's certainly worth noting and abusing whenever possible or necessary. Oh, and if you were to opt for Swagger on Cresselia then I'd drop Moonlight because it only heals you for 25% in the Sand which you would often find yourself in due to it's combo with Ttar. I'm not sold on Moonlight either way tbh, but it's up to you.

Now, should you opt for Clefable, Clefairy or Amoonguss I would strongly suggest that you don't use Swagger. All three of them have better uses of their moveslots, and as redirection mons they are much more suited for helping Tyranitar get Dragon Dances up than Swaggering it. Lum Berry is still a fine item on DDance Ttar even without Swagger as you can absorb Thunder Waves or Will-O-Wisps. If you decide to go with a redirection mon, however, those moves can be redirected. Because of this, running Tyranitarite would become a viable option. DDance Tyranitar can function as a dual Mega easily enough, and the stat boost in games where you can't or shouldn't bring Salamence is extremely nice. Because of the see 6 bring 4 nature of VGC, running two Megas is entirely doable especially when one of them like Tyranitar can work just fine in battle without Mega-Evolving (Salamence can't do that, sadly).

So, with all of that covered, we find ourselves with a free moveslot on Salamence. It certainly isn't lacking for options though. Salamence can run Fire Blast/Flamethrower for additional Fire Coverage, Draco Meteor for the nuking power, Substitute to abuse it's insane speed to prevent status and act as a pseudo Protect in desperate times (good with redirection, but not requiring it), Tailwind as an additional means of speed control, or you could opt for a more physical set with Dragon Dance to abuse redirection if you decide to add it over Cress. I wouldn't recommend two Dragon Dance users on the same team, but it can be done.

With all of that said, I like the rest of your team and think you've made quite the cool strategy. The big thing I'm jumping over is Assurance Ttar, but really I feel that you're fine with that. If you'd like a longer explanation I can provide one, but I think this rate is enough to digest in one sitting without adding more stuff to read.

 

[slurpy_mac]

Alright, before we begin I'd like to clear something up. In your Cress section you mention that most Gengar don't carry Dark Pulse, which is true (less than 7%). However, what I believe you meant to say is that most Gengar don't carry Shadow Ball which hits Cress every bit as super effectively as Dark Pulse does but with STAB, and it isn't nearly as true. Shadow Ball is Gengar's most common move clocking in at 79.6% usage. For sake of reference, only 60% of Gengar carry Sludge Bomb. With that cleared up, let's move onto the team itself, and what better place to start than the elephant in the room?

So, Swagger Salamence. I understand the logic between the Tyranitar/Salamence combination and the way in which the two of them work together, so I'll be addressing them both at once. Swagger + Lum user is a combination I personally love, but as it stands your two users aren't the greatest. In order for the combination to work, the Swagger user has to be able to get off Swagger off rather easily, meaning that it shouldn't want to do anything else in the turn when it goes for Swagger. This can be complimented by the Swaggered Pokemon getting a double KO on the opponent, preferably before they can move and damage either of your Pokemon. The Swaggered Pokemon should also have some sort of speed advantage, weather that be natural like Terrakion's base 108 speed or Trick Room from the infamous Swagger TR Cress/Lum Metagross of 2013, ensuring that your newly powered up Pokemon can get attacks of is essential. Dragon Dance is cool to that end, however suddenly you find yourself with a two turn setup or a totally passive one turn setup in which you opponent can do whatever they want. Furthermore, Salamence is usually better off Double Edging or Hyper Voicing something. To be quite honest, I don't believe that the combination as you currently have it is viable.

With all of that said, Cresselia, Clefairy and Clefable all have access to Swagger (Amoonguss does too, but it should be running Spore/Rage Powder/Giga Drain/Protect pretty much no matter what). While Swagger isn't great on Clefairy or Clefable, it is an option. On Cresselia, however, Swagger can actually shine quite well, especially when paired with Thunder Wave. The key to gimmicks like this is to have them function even when you're not trying to set it up (the moves involved in the gimmick should all have other uses and be able to function without use in the gimmick if needed). With Thunder Wave Cress can slow down special attackers and Swagger them the turn after that to lower the chance of them moving even further. The problem on 2 turn setup or 1 turn passive setup does still remain, but it's notably less of an issue for two reasons.

1.) Unlike Salamence, Cresselia is a Pokemon that is built to take hits all day long. Beyond that, if it gets KOed it's not that much of an issue because it isn't one of your main offensive threats like Salamence is. Infact, if it gets KOed helping you set up and you've managed to put up a Dragon Dance on Tyranitar, you get a free switch into your Salamence and can begin sweeping.

2.) Cresselia has Thunder Wave. This hearkens back to my point about having speed control so you let your Swaggered Pokemon actually deal damage before it gets KOed. This is made even better by Rock Slide's flinch chance. Here's a bit of a chart:

Paralized Pokemon: 75% chance to move

Paralized Pokemon that had a Rock Slide used against it (counting accuracy): 54% chance to move

Paralized Pokemon that had a Swagger and a Rock Slide used against it (counting accuracy): 28% chance to move

While this is not something to be relied upon, it's certainly worth noting and abusing whenever possible or necessary. Oh, and if you were to opt for Swagger on Cresselia then I'd drop Moonlight because it only heals you for 25% in the Sand which you would often find yourself in due to it's combo with Ttar. I'm not sold on Moonlight either way tbh, but it's up to you.

Now, should you opt for Clefable, Clefairy or Amoonguss I would strongly suggest that you don't use Swagger. All three of them have better uses of their moveslots, and as redirection mons they are much more suited for helping Tyranitar get Dragon Dances up than Swaggering it. Lum Berry is still a fine item on DDance Ttar even without Swagger as you can absorb Thunder Waves or Will-O-Wisps. If you decide to go with a redirection mon, however, those moves can be redirected. Because of this, running Tyranitarite would become a viable option. DDance Tyranitar can function as a dual Mega easily enough, and the stat boost in games where you can't or shouldn't bring Salamence is extremely nice. Because of the see 6 bring 4 nature of VGC, running two Megas is entirely doable especially when one of them like Tyranitar can work just fine in battle without Mega-Evolving (Salamence can't do that, sadly).

So, with all of that covered, we find ourselves with a free moveslot on Salamence. It certainly isn't lacking for options though. Salamence can run Fire Blast/Flamethrower for additional Fire Coverage, Draco Meteor for the nuking power, Substitute to abuse it's insane speed to prevent status and act as a pseudo Protect in desperate times (good with redirection, but not requiring it), Tailwind as an additional means of speed control, or you could opt for a more physical set with Dragon Dance to abuse redirection if you decide to add it over Cress. I wouldn't recommend two Dragon Dance users on the same team, but it can be done.

With all of that said, I like the rest of your team and think you've made quite the cool strategy. The big thing I'm jumping over is Assurance Ttar, but really I feel that you're fine with that. If you'd like a longer explanation I can provide one, but I think this rate is enough to digest in one sitting without adding more stuff to read.

Impressive analysis, all I can say is hats off! I've a few questions though after reading it carefully and putting some thought into it. Do you believe that finally deciding to stay with Cresselia with Thunder Wave and Swagger could work? I know its bulk is amazing but I fear getting KOed fast or losing coverage if a Taunt user comes up.

And what's more important, what would be the best leading strategy? I know it depends on the rival's team but when designing a team, it's always great to have 1 or 2 in mind at least. Perhaps a Tyranitar+Cresselia lead with a Thunder Wave + DDance could work, or a Swagger + DDance, or Swagger+Protect to ensure at least 1 boost... What other viable leads could I think of using?

Draco Meteor on Salamence looks pretty good, but would you recommend it over Fire Blast?

And finally, do you think I have to replace any mon for other viable alternatives? Perhaps there are other options with better sets that would make the strategy more viable.

Thanks very much for your help, I really appreciate it! :)

 

[Draconid997]

if you're afraid of cress getting taunted, you could run a mental herb on it to guarantee a turn of being able to status the opponent. of course this would remove the immediate recovery of sitrus berry, but it frees up the ability to use swagger/TW.

imo, amoonguss would be a great addition to the team, as redirection + set up is a great way to gain momentum, and would be the answer to your second question of the best leads. for example, amoonguss + tyranitar was a common lead back in 2014 for set up + redirection whilst status-ing your opponent, and in 2015, salamence-mega + amoonguss is quite a common lead because of the amount of damage salamence is able to get off under the 'meat shield' of amoonguss, so i would suggest that the answer to your third question of viable alternatives is to add amoonguss into the squad :)

 

[Draconid997]

one of my favourite amoonguss spreads, which would specifically support tyranitar and salamence really well is this:

Amoonguss @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 216 HP / 188 Def / 104 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Rage Powder
- Spore
- Giga Drain
- Protect

the HP EVs maximize both sitrus berry AND regenerator recovery, and the defensive investment means amoonguss has a 6.3% chance to be OHKO'd by mega metagross' zen headbutt as well as surviving a +6 play rough from 252+ Atk azumarill, two of the biggest threats to salamence/tyranitar

this would be a good alternative for the cresselia slot, as it provides redirection support as well as status, and it also completes a FWG core with blaziken/milotic :)

 

[Draconid997]

with amoonguss, your team's weaknesses/resistances chart is pretty good :)

lol windows xp

you have at least one resistance to every type which is always what a good balanced team should look like, but that ground weakness might be worth looking over, but you have excellent switching synergy as well as wide guard support from aegislash which should stop earthquake users in their tracks. you could also put a weakness policy on aegislash which would also compensate for the ground weakness, as it would boost your SpA/Atk (although i'll have to check if aegislash can survive a lando-t earthquake), so that you could KO the earthquaking threat.

EDIT: aegislash can survive it:
252+ Atk Landorus-T Earthquake vs. 212 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Shield: 108-128 (66.6 - 79%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

unfortunately it cant do much more than 60% to lando-t after it gets the WP boost with the current EV spread:

+2 124+ SpA Aegislash-Shield Shadow Ball vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-T: 85-102 (51.5 - 61.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

and with max SpA EVs it does about 70% at maximum

if you want to be able to check landorus-t without cress, you would maybe want to look into swapping milotic for suicune, as suicune can supply speed control in tailwind as well as ice beam, unlike milotic. this is a set that i recommend you could use:

Suicune @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 20 Def / 100 SpA / 108 SpD / 28 Spe
Calm Nature
– Scald
– Ice Beam
– Tailwind
– Snarl/Protect

- Outspeeds Choice Scarf Landorus-T in Tailwind and OHKO's 252 HP Landorus-T with Ice Beam
- Lives a +1 Jolly M-Salamence Double-edge
- Lives Choice Specs Thundurus Thunderbolt

Hope this all helps :)

 

[slurpy_mac]

with amoonguss, your team's weaknesses/resistances chart is pretty good :)

View attachment 48183
lol windows xp

you have at least one resistance to every type which is always what a good balanced team should look like, but that ground weakness might be worth looking over, but you have excellent switching synergy as well as wide guard support from aegislash which should stop earthquake users in their tracks. you could also put a weakness policy on aegislash which would also compensate for the ground weakness, as it would boost your SpA/Atk (although i'll have to check if aegislash can survive a lando-t earthquake), so that you could KO the earthquaking threat.

EDIT: aegislash can survive it:
252+ Atk Landorus-T Earthquake vs. 212 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Shield: 108-128 (66.6 - 79%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

also if you want to be able to take out landorus-t without cress, you would maybe want to look into swapping milotic for suicune, as suicune can supply speed control in tailwind as well as ice beam, unlike milotic. this is a set that i recommend you could use:

Suicune @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 20 Def / 100 SpA / 108 SpD / 28 Spe
Calm Nature
– Scald
– Ice Beam
– Tailwind
– Snarl/Protect

- Outspeeds Choice Scarf Landorus-T in Tailwind and OHKO's 252 HP Landorus-T with Ice Beam
- Lives a +1 Jolly M-Salamence Double-edge
- Lives Choice Specs Thundurus Thunderbolt

Hey there! Really interesting suggestions! I guess I could then go with Amoonguss/Tyranitar/Aegislash/Blaziken/Suicune/M-Salamence, what do you think?

This way I'm "forced" to get Swagger in Mence losing coverage, or otherwise just forget this strategy and opt for a Flamethrower/Draco Meteor in there, I'm not sure which option is the best.

Certainly Tailwind support is really appreciated, do you think that Suicune survives as well as Cresselia does?

Thank you very much for your time, I really appreciate it! :)

 

[Draconid997]

So with all the suggestions serapis and i have made, the rated/edited team looks like this

Amoonguss @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 216 HP / 188 Def / 104 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Rage Powder
- Spore
- Giga Drain
- Protect

Salamence @ Salamencite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 164 HP / 148 Atk / 36 Def / 60 SpD / 100 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Protect
- Dragon Dance
- Return/Double-Edge
- Earthquake/Roost

OR

Salamence @ Salamenceite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Double-Edge
- Hyper Voice
- Draco Meteor
- Protect

Tyranitar @ Lum Berry
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly/Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Rock Slide
- Protect
- Assurance/Crunch

Blaziken @ Life Orb
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 4 HP / 40 Atk / 212 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive/Mild Nature
- Overheat
- Superpower
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Protect

Aegislash @ Weakness Policy/Leftovers
Ability: Stance Change
EVs: 212 HP / 124 SpA / 172 SpD
Modest Nature
- King's Shield
- Wide Guard
- Shadow Ball
- Flash Cannon

Suicune @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 20 Def / 100 SpA / 108 SpD / 28 Spe
Calm Nature
- Scald
- Ice Beam
- Tailwind
- Snarl/Protect

 

[Draconid997]

- Imo, it would be wise to forgo the swagger strategy, as you can do as well/better without it.
- suicune a bit less bulky than cress but has more offensive capabilities.
- If you really want to go down the swagger/TW route, thundurus-i is a good option, since it has the prankster ability. however, there isnt really a spot on the team to fit it without hindering some of the team's resistances. the best spot for it it is to swap salamence, but then you would lose a lot of offensive pressure, and you would force yourself into leading tyranitar, rather than having the option of sweeping with mega salamence

 

[Draconid997]

on the importable team, i included an option for set-up salamence, which i thought would be interesting, i.e, having two gameplans on offer for your opponent to think about countering at team preview

this is what the guy who created the spread says it does:

"The EV spread was also something a lot of people inquired about. I wanted the power of Adamant, as I would be setting up a Dragon Dance most of the time to help my Speed anyway. I added 100 EVs into Speed so that I could out speed max Speed neutral base 100’s such as Adamant Kangaskhan and Charizard-Y. The HP EVs put me at a number of 16n-1 to reduce burn damage; I figured that Mega-Salamence would be a common target for burns due to the pressure it exerts (not literally, Intimidate is better anyway).

The Defense EVs allowed me to take an Adamant max attack Life Orbed Mamoswine’s Ice Shard, while the Special Defense EVs allow me to take a 132 Sp. Atk Suicune’s Ice Beam. The remaining EVs were simply thrown into Attack to maximize Salamence’s damage output."

Also i recommend Return>Double-Edge, as it lacks recoil, therefore lengthening your time on the field, as well as having the ability to use roost. earthquake is recommended on the set to improve your heatran matchup, but since you have no other earthquake immunities i suggest roost

 

[Draconid997]

hope this answers your question(s) :)

 

[Draconid997]

when i create a 'weather core team + combo(s)' like this one, i like to use the framework of:

- 1 x Weather Core (E.g: Charizard/Cresselia/Terrakion, Tyranitar/Excadrill, Politoed/Ludicolo, Tyranitar/Amoonguss)
- 1 x Defensive/Offensive Backbone core (FWG/Fantasy Core, possibly including secondary combos within the core)
- 2 x Support mons (Redirection/Status/Speed Control/Fake Out/Wide Guard etc)

by using this framework, most of the teams you will create are very balanced and have all 5 of:
- Speed
- Bulk
- Power
- Switching Synergy
- Support

a team i created that has followed the framework is this:

 

[Draconid997]

the link to its rmt thread
http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/charizard-cresselia-sun-kangaskhan-offense-team.3547214/

Btw, kangaskhan used to be venusaur to complete a fwg core, then i changed to aegislash (wide guard support) then kang (fake out)

I had a go at creating a variation of your team so that it fit the framework and i thought you may like it :)

At a Glance:

- 1st Combo (salamence+amoonguss)
- Weather core (tyranitar+excadrill)
- 2x support (wide guard aegislash/Tailwind suicune/Intimidate/Snarl)

Sets:

Salamence @ Salamencite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Double-Edge
- Hyper Voice
- Protect

Amoonguss @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 216 HP / 188 Def / 104 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Rage Powder
- Spore
- Giga Drain
- Protect

Tyranitar @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Rock Slide
- Ice Beam
- Dark Pulse
- Fire Blast

- fire/ice/dark/rock coverage:
0
No Effect
3
Not Very Effective (water/fighting types)
319
Normal Effectiveness
478
Super Effective

- leads excellently with excadrill

Excadrill @ Focus Sash
Ability: Sand Rush
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Rock Slide
- Iron Head
- Drill Run
- Protect

- Standard mole spread
- 2x rock slides from Ttar and 'drill has 60% chance to flinch opponent

Aegislash @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Stance Change
EVs: 212 HP / 124 SpA / 172 SpD
Modest Nature
- Shadow Ball
- Flash Cannon
- Wide Guard
- King's Shield

Suicune @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 28 Def / 100 SpA / 108 SpD / 20 Spe
Calm Nature
- Scald
- Ice Beam
- Tailwind
- Snarl

link to this teams weaknesses/resistances chart: http://www.eggyemporium.com/tools/teambuilder/?373|591|248|530|681|245
the only 3 types that you have one resist/immunity against are dark/ground/ghost. pretty good switching synergy :)

Other good teams that follow this offensive combo + weather archetype are:

 

[slurpy_mac]

the link to its rmt thread
http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/charizard-cresselia-sun-kangaskhan-offense-team.3547214/

Btw, kangaskhan used to be venusaur to complete a fwg core, then i changed to aegislash (wide guard support) then kang (fake out)

I had a go at creating a variation of your team so that it fit the framework and i thought you may like it :)

At a Glance:

- 1st Combo (salamence+amoonguss)
- Weather core (tyranitar+excadrill)
- 2x support (wide guard aegislash/Tailwind suicune/Intimidate/Snarl)

Sets:

Salamence @ Salamencite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Double-Edge
- Hyper Voice
- Protect

Amoonguss @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 216 HP / 188 Def / 104 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Rage Powder
- Spore
- Giga Drain
- Protect

Tyranitar @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Rock Slide
- Ice Beam
- Dark Pulse
- Fire Blast

- fire/ice/dark/rock coverage:
0
No Effect
3
Not Very Effective (water/fighting types)
319
Normal Effectiveness
478
Super Effective

- leads excellently with excadrill

Excadrill @ Focus Sash
Ability: Sand Rush
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Rock Slide
- Iron Head
- Drill Run
- Protect

- Standard mole spread
- 2x rock slides from Ttar and 'drill has 60% chance to flinch opponent

Aegislash @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Stance Change
EVs: 212 HP / 124 SpA / 172 SpD
Modest Nature
- Shadow Ball
- Flash Cannon
- Wide Guard
- King's Shield

Suicune @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 20 Def / 100 SpA / 108 SpD / 28 Spe
Calm Nature
- Scald
- Ice Beam
- Tailwind
- Snarl

link to this teams weaknesses/resistances chart: http://www.eggyemporium.com/tools/teambuilder/?373|591|248|530|681|245
the only 3 types that you have one resist/immunity against are dark/ground/ghost. pretty good switching synergy :)

Other good teams that follow this offensive combo + weather archetype are:

Just WOW. Thank you very much for your help, you've given me so many alternatives and a great explanation. I really appreciate it! I'll definitely try these teams in Showdown to see which one fits best my style of play and then I will try to build them! Thanks again for your help!! Hope I could help you in something in return :)

 

[Draconid997]

Im looking for a inner focus kangaskhan/modest natured xerneas, so if you have one or know anyone who does, that would be awesome :)

 

[slurpy_mac]

Im looking for a inner focus kangaskhan/modest natured xerneas, so if you have one or know anyone who does, that would be awesome :)

I know a guy that has Powersaves, would it be ok then if I can get you a Modest Xerneas with perfect IVs with this method? I can ask him for that for sure if you want!

Cheers!

 

[Draconid997]

I know a guy that has Powersaves, would it be ok then if I can get you a Modest Xerneas with perfect IVs with this method? I can ask him for that for sure if you want!

Cheers!

that would be awesome :) is there a chance that he could get an inner focus kangaskhan as well?
its for a team that i've been working on - i'll make an RMT of it some time :) thanks so much

 

[Draconid997]

these are the sets that i would love to use :) if he could power save EV trained mons, or produce a mon lower than level 100 so that i can train it that would be awesome

Xerneas @ Power Herb
Ability: Fairy Aura
EVs: 184 HP / 28 Def / 252 SpA / 44 Spe
Modest Nature
- Geomancy
- Dazzling Gleam
- Thunderbolt
- Protect

Kangaskhan @ Kangaskhanite
Ability: Inner Focus -> Parental Bond
EVs: 164 HP / 156 Atk / 44 Def / 4 SDef / 140 Spe
Jolly Nature
– Fake Out
– Return
– Power-Up Punch
– Sucker Punch

Just got the RMT up :) http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/xy-doubles-ubers-team-xerneas-rampage-from-2014.3547472/
please have a read it's one of my favourite teams :)
​

 

[Draconid997]

I had a go at creating a variation of your team so that it fit the framework and i thought you may like it :)

At a Glance:

- 1st Combo (salamence+amoonguss)
- Weather core (tyranitar+excadrill)
- 2x support (wide guard aegislash/Tailwind suicune/Intimidate/Snarl)

Sets:

Salamence @ Salamencite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Double-Edge
- Hyper Voice
- Protect

Amoonguss @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 216 HP / 188 Def / 104 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Rage Powder
- Spore
- Giga Drain
- Protect

Tyranitar @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Rock Slide
- Ice Beam
- Dark Pulse
- Fire Blast

- fire/ice/dark/rock coverage:
0
No Effect
3
Not Very Effective (water/fighting types)
319
Normal Effectiveness
478
Super Effective

- leads excellently with excadrill

Excadrill @ Focus Sash
Ability: Sand Rush
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Rock Slide
- Iron Head
- Drill Run
- Protect

- Standard mole spread
- 2x rock slides from Ttar and 'drill has 60% chance to flinch opponent

Aegislash @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Stance Change
EVs: 212 HP / 124 SpA / 172 SpD
Modest Nature
- Shadow Ball
- Flash Cannon
- Wide Guard
- King's Shield

Suicune @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 28 Def / 100 SpA / 108 SpD / 20 Spe
Calm Nature
- Scald
- Ice Beam
- Tailwind
- Snarl

Might i just add, milotic seems a much better fit on this team than suicune, as it acts as a landorus/intimidate deterrent with its competitive ability, and can also ohko landorus with ice beam. its competitive ability plus access to recover make it imo a bigger threat than suicune, as speed control in tailwind isn't really needed on this team. Tyranitar and excadrill are both extremely fast and mega salamence equally so, with both amoonguss and aegislash acting as trick room counters making the need for a tailwind user negligible. a good set would be:

Milotic @ Sitrus Berry / Maranga Berry / Leftovers
Ability: Competitive
EVs: 236 HP / 156 Def / 100 SpA / 12 SpD / 4 Spe
Bold Nature
- Scald
- Ice Beam
- Recover
- Protect

This survives specs Hydreigon's Draco Meteor, kangaskhan's double-edge and manectric's/zapdos' thunderbolt. Maranga Berry plus recover have perfect synergy with each other, sitrus berry is great for immediate recovery and leftovers is a good option over sitrus because #1 it's a sand team, leftovers negates weather damage and #2 when outside of sand, leftovers is better if you think milotic will survive more than four turns.

Also, a physical scarf tyranitar would probably be a better fit, as it is more powerful than mixed tyranitar and gets better coverage with access to superpower, so my recommended set is:

Tyranitar @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Rock Slide
- Crunch
- Ice Punch
- Superpower

(Importable)

Salamence @ Salamencite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Hyper Voice
- Double-Edge
- Draco Meteor
- Protect

Amoonguss @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 188 HP / 164 Def / 156 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Rage Powder
- Spore
- Giga Drain
- Protect

Tyranitar @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Rock Slide
- Crunch
- Ice Punch
- Superpower

Excadrill @ Focus Sash
Ability: Sand Rush
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Drill Run
- Rock Slide
- Iron Head
- Protect

Aegislash @ Leftovers
Ability: Stance Change
EVs: 252 HP / 180 SpA / 76 SpD
Quiet Nature
- Shadow Ball
- Flash Cannon
- Wide Guard
- King's Shield

Milotic @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Competitive
EVs: 236 HP / 156 Def / 100 SpA / 12 SpD / 4 Spe
Bold Nature
- Scald
- Ice Beam
- Recover
- Protect

 

[slurpy_mac]

these are the sets that i would love to use :) if he could power save EV trained mons, or produce a mon lower than level 100 so that i can train it that would be awesome

Xerneas @ Power Herb
Ability: Fairy Aura
EVs: 184 HP / 28 Def / 252 SpA / 44 Spe
Modest Nature
- Geomancy
- Dazzling Gleam
- Thunderbolt
- Protect

Kangaskhan @ Kangaskhanite
Ability: Inner Focus -> Parental Bond
EVs: 164 HP / 156 Atk / 44 Def / 4 SDef / 140 Spe
Jolly Nature
– Fake Out
– Return
– Power-Up Punch
– Sucker Punch

Just got the RMT up :) http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/xy-doubles-ubers-team-xerneas-rampage-from-2014.3547472/
please have a read it's one of my favourite teams :)
​

Sorry I've been out for a week due to work, but now I'm back! I can try to get you the 2 mons if you are still interested. PM me and we'll talk about it :) I've tried to PM you but it does not let me do it, and I don't want to reopen this thread as your suggestions are really what I was looking for.

Cheers!