Sketchmons ORAS - Diggersby and Shell Smash Banned!

[Josh]

Viab rankings look decent. Might want to remove the attached files part at the end though. And for the record, I was never asked to help with the viability rankings, so oh well.

Anyways, onto the only problem I see for now. Like we talked about on showdown, having S- and especially S+ looks incredibly bad in my opinion. It just makes it look cleaner to have a regular S. The easy fix is remove the + completely and literally just leave it as S because you have no pure S rank for god knows what reason. However, I'd prefer to see the S- mons drop to A+ all together, and maybe raise Clefable to S (I'm indifferent on that). Just having pure S looks so much better.

Besides that, it looks pretty good. The 1 nom I have is Skarmory to A-. Looking just at S/A+, it checks or counters Mega Pinsir, Mega Altaria, Clefable (I'm saying this because it deals with non fire coverage variants; they are somewhat common), Metagross-Mega, Diggersby, Scizor, Lopunny-Mega, Garchomp. That is a lot of mons. It can even run an offensive set to do some lures (with either scarf or LO). I don't really have the energy atm to write a long post, but yh Skarmory is really being undersold in B.


EDIT;

Any possibility of getting notes stating commonly sketched moves, at least in cases where there are just one or two standard additions?

^YES this will help new players out a lot

 

[Akumeoy]

Any possibility of getting notes stating commonly sketched moves, at least in cases where there are just one or two standard additions?

Three things I disagree with purely from personal experience:

• Non-ranking of Mega Aerodactyl. It's A- in standard; in Sketchmons, resisting two Espeeds and being faster than god, it has the potential to clean with a destructively powerful Dragon Ascent, or because it lures in Steel-types that don't care about Earthquake (like Skarmory and Ferrothorn), it can run V-Create or Flare Blitz to poop on those. It naturally outspeeds Serperior, Mega Pinsir (relevant because +2 Espeed doesn't OHKO from full health), unboosted Megagross (OHKO with V-Create, 31.3% chance to OHKO after rocks with Flare Blitz). The point being that even in a priority-infested meta, Mega Aerodactyl still functions as a potent revenge killer that can use its sketch move to clean teams or break walls.
• C+ ranking of regular Aerodactyl. We all know about Banded Head Smash; it is also still faster than most of the meta, though it notably loses out on outspeeding Mega Lopunny. Like its mega cousin, it retains the ability to carry a Fire-type move to lure in bulky Steel-types; with the exception of bulky Ground-types, each set can KO things that might wall the other. I think somewhere in the B rankings would be appropriate for both Aerodactyl and its mega form, as they are flexible and fast enough to remain part of the game under changing conditions.
• Non-ranking of Bronzong. Bronzong was already a good switch-in to a ton of 'mons; in Sketchmons, it gets the choice of adding instant recovery to its repertoire. A specially defensive spread is a great answer to Fairy-types, especially if they boost their speed -- Clefable is 2HKOed at +1 Speed (and can't OHKO with +2 252+ Fire Blast), Mega Altaria can't set up on it from fear of a 2HKO from Gyro Ball, and Mega Gardevoir typically dies in one hit. It also avoids the 2HKO from Scarfed Porygon-Z, though it hates Trick. Bronzong has only got more viable in Sketchmons, by virtue of a serious improvement to its own solid movepool and the increased prominence of things that it stops. Given that it is C+ in standard, I think it should also be among the B ranks -- perhaps low B, because more things get Fire coverage, and it can't check Mega Pinsirs that carry Knock Off.

Also recommending reconsideration for Ferrothorn, because it's just as much of a -- everything CAN run Fire coverage, yes, but many things do not particularly WANT to, and with instant recovery, you can't put it out of commission by dealing 80% and dying to recoil any more. Perhaps not A or A+ like it is in standard, but somewhere. I can't make a better recommendation, though.

Thanks for doing the rankings! They look pretty good overall.

 

[Imperator Romanum]

Yeah, I'm going to take note of all nominations. If you want something ranked that isn't ranked I'm super open to ranking them, when the player base is so small (compared to a perma ladder) it's easy to forget certain mons, so I'm very much agreeing of ranking alot these mons, unfortunately I'm unsure of how to edit the tiny sprites in and removing the "attached file part" before you respond to this please just send me a PM as of how to fix it, so we don't clog the chat. If you want something ranked that isn't ranked, here's how you do it. If it's something that i've obviously forgotten, like Mega Sableye and Mega Aerodactyl, just try to think of a rank and I'll probably place it there. It's not that I deem them unviable, I just forgot about them hehe, which is pretty sarcastic because Mega Sableye is on my own team.

Outside of nominating stuff that isn't ranked, which should be quick with one sentence basically, since I'm going to rank almost anything. Here's a slate of what you can discuss :)

Mega Altaria S --> A+
Landorus-Therian A- --> A
Latios B+ --> A-
Skarmory B --> B+
Talonflame B --> A-
Chansey B+ -- A

Oh, and I forgot to add this in the actual ranking (sorry) Mega Metagross is A+ and Kyurem-B is S, here's why

Mega Metagross is inconsistent. It gaining Heavy Slam really does very little for it, very few things are now OHKOd compared to 2HKOd and even if they weren't OHKO they usually can do very little for it. Skarmory is a complete counter with the addition of Will O Wisp and Mega Gross now suddenly has an even bigger 4MMS, the drop in Extreme speeds usage is also a hit for it, all in all not a metagame defining pokemon. Shift gear is alright, but I rarely see it do action because you're often left walled pretty easily.

Kyurem-Black is something I've personally fiddled with, we all know how powerful Three attacks roost LO is with its Ice stab but it can also run a pretty fucking great special route as well, Quiver dance lets it set up on a ton of special attackers with it already amazing bulk. Truly metagame defining pokemon with Teravolt to bypass unaware, it's great HP number allows it to sub up on Chansey and generally not giving a shit, especially coupled with roost.

 

[Funbot28]

Welcome to the official Sketchmons Viability Rankings topic. You should know the drill by now; In this thread, we as a community will rank every single usable Pokemon into "tiers." In this thread, you're encouraged to post your thoughts and opinions on the various Pokemon that are usable in Sketchmons and what tier they should fall under. Posts in this thread will be taken into account when deciding rank changes.
The general idea of the topic is to rank each Sketchmons pokemon under "rankings" that go in descending order. Since this is a general tier list, everything is lumped together. There won't be any segregation between offense & defense threats.

• EX: Garchomp can be ranked in A tier as an offensive threat, Ferrothorn can be ranked under A as supportive threat and Skarmory can be can also be ranked in B tier as a defensive threat. These are just examples not representative of their future or current ranks.

Sketchmons Ranking Tier List
(In alphabetical order)
S Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are at the top of the Sketchmons metagame
S+ Rank

View attachment 49396 Pinsir (Mega)
View attachment 49336 Thundurus-I
S- rank

View attachment 49401 Altaria (Mega)
View attachment 49417 Clefable
View attachment 49407 Metagross (Mega)
A Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are fantastic in the Sketchmons metagame.
A+ Rank


View attachment 49335 Diggersby
View attachment 49352 Heatran
View attachment 49353 Porygon-Z
View attachment 49397 Charizard (Mega - X)
View attachment 49404 Scizor (Mega)
View attachment 49341 Keldeo
View attachment 49381 Gengar
View attachment 49370 Lopunny (Mega)
View attachment 49362 Garchomp
View attachment 49340 Hoopa-U
A Rank

View attachment 49357 Weavile
View attachment 49360 Magnezone
View attachment 49390 Azumarill
View attachment 49400 Sceptile (Mega)
View attachment 49424 Klefki
View attachment 49377 Cloyster
View attachment 49411 Gardevoir (Mega)
View attachment 49403 Alakazam (Mega)
View attachment 49361 Tyranitar
View attachment 49406 Slowbro (Mega)
View attachment 49349 Hippowdon
View attachment 49402 Diancie (Mega)
A- Rank

View attachment 49359 Serperior
View attachment 49419 Landorus-T
View attachment 49410 Medicham (Mega)
View attachment 49418 Zapdos
View attachment 49355 Excadrill
View attachment 49420 Terrakion
View attachment 49398 Charizard (Mega-Y)
View attachment 49405 Gyarados (Mega)
B Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are great in the Sketchmons metagame.
B+ Rank

View attachment 49415 Starmie
View attachment 49365 Suicune
View attachment 49332 Talonflame
View attachment 49373 Jirachi
View attachment 49337 Sylveon
View attachment 49393 Chansey
View attachment 49360 Magnezone
View attachment 49331 Bisharp
View attachment 49367 Latias
View attachment 49369 Latios

B Rank

View attachment 49342 Volcarona
View attachment 49421 Skarmory
View attachment 49413 Aggron (Mega)
View attachment 49433 The Immortal
View attachment 49427 Rotom-W
View attachment 49425 Pidgeot (Mega)
View attachment 49350 Gliscor
View attachment 49379Gyarados
View attachment 49343 Hydreigon
View attachment 49384 Quagsire
B- Rank

View attachment 49428 Aurorus
View attachment 49416 Dragonite
View attachment 49371 Sableye
C Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that have notable niches in the Sketchmons metagame.
C+ Rank

View attachment 49339 Goodra
View attachment 49334 Cobalion
View attachment 49375 Shedinja
View attachment 49383 Aerodactyl
View attachment 49354 Cofagrigus
View attachment 49358 Rhyperior
View attachment 49430Malamar
View attachment 49429Victini
C Rank
View attachment 49363 Crawdaunt
View attachment 49389 Magneton
View attachment 49333Bouffelant
C- Rank

View attachment 49374 Slaking
View attachment 49426 Snaquaza
D Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are mediocre in the Sketchmons metagame.

View attachment 49431 Regigigas
View attachment 49351 Manaphy
Rules

• Post intelligently. Posts like "I think pokemon X should be in this tier" will be deleted.

• Usage statistics may be used to support an argument or a claim, but don't base your ENTIRE argument around them. For example, you can't just say "Pokemon X shouldn't be this tier because they aren't used that often!"

• Suspect talk, unrelated stuff, one liners that ask questions that provide no substance, something that doesn't really pertain to rankings or petty arguments about semantics and definitions, such as the definition of a counter as one example, will be deleted.

Happy posting ♪♪

Just so everyone knows the shit I've been through while making this, i've asked people, multiple people for help, and i've gotten guys helping me like once or twice but consistently? None. But of course, plenty of people who are barely doing any work who'd JUMP on the chance to host it themselves, that's really shitty. Whatever, it's done now. Enjoy people

May I suggest to put common sketch moves runned by the mon right next to it, so it's more clear?

 

[xJownage]

Just so everyone knows the shit I've been through while making this, i've asked people, multiple people for help, and i've gotten guys helping me like once or twice but consistently? None. But of course, plenty of people who are barely doing any work who'd JUMP on the chance to host it themselves, that's really shitty. Whatever, it's done now. Enjoy people

Please remove this. It's utterly unnecessary and just seems angry to me; regardless of the reasons, it looks bad.

I wanted to help you, but after you left to go get food or something, you never messaged me again. I probably should've messaged you myself, but I guess I felt you would ask me if you wanted me there. Quite frankly, I just wanted to revamp S- and A+ from the start, since I don't think any of the mons in S- are S material despite being above some of the mons in A+ (that's a problem with defining the rankings, which is very hard to do in a meta like this). Regardless, the rankings seem very inconsistent. Thank you for putting it together, I would like things to be less vigilant in the future. It's very hard to rank mons when everybody is coming around at different times, which is usually why I try to have one event where we do it all at once, but it appeared that it didn't work out for you.

That being said, I'm going to suggest getting rid of S- rank while moving all of those mons except clefable down to A+. I'll also move a few things around in A+. The rest of the rankings came out pretty good, but the consistency in the high ranks is just bad.

Clefable ---> S
Megagross + Mega Alt ---> A+

Porygon-Z ---> A
Gengar ---> A
Hoopa-U ---> A
Mega Lopunny ---> A

Its not because these mons are bad, but it's because they fit better into their counterparts in the ranks they are being nominated for. Porygon-Z is a lot closer to the same effectiveness as Tyranitar than it is mega metagross, right? It's simple to fix and makes sense. For a metagame like sketchmons, where everything is upside-down, its much easier to use the mons themselves to define the ranks rather than defining the mons by using the ranks. If mega metagross is a staple in A+, then that should be the standard for A+ mons.

Kyurem-Black can go in S or A+, and I personally would favor it being in S rank after a combining. It would seem hard-pressed to put it on the level of Mega Pinsir and Thundurus, but both of those two have substantial flaws that are completely patched up, and Kyurem-Black is the same. It's bulk helps patch its SR weakness; its insane power helps it mitigate its mediocre coverage, the addition of an ice move allows it to hit many more threats for super effective damage, and the addition of dragon dance patches its speed and mediocre coverage because its massive attack overcomes lacking the SE coverage. Overall its a great mon that is very threatening for every team, and its defensive typing is not bad in this metagame, so I would support this in S rank where Thundurus also packs similar flaws that are similarly patched by its sketched moves.

The rankings actually look pretty good, kudos to you on getting it cleaned up. What I saw on the piratepad was an absolute disaster, but this has only a few issues, which is remarkable considering that you did them with a rotating cast.

 

[Lcass4919]

posting since i didnt see anyone talk about it, and the bat is getting hyped for the wrong reasons imo.

Swoobat @ Leftovers/Kee Berry/Salac Berry
EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Ability: Simple
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Cotton Guard
- Roost/Giga Drain/Signal Beam
- Stored Power
- Calm Mind
Behold, a much better set (imo) then quiver/stored bat. for one reason and one reason alone: it laughs off plenty of physical sweepers INCLUDING most priority users during setup. take a look at this:
252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Extreme Speed vs. +6 0 HP / 4 Def Swoobat: 78-93 (28.3 - 33.8%) -- 95% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Refrigerate Mega Glalie Extreme Speed vs. +6 0 HP / 4 Def Swoobat: 132-156 (48 - 56.7%) -- 25% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery(not bad for a Super effective hit, max hp stops the 2hko fyi)
+2 252+ Atk Pixilate Mega Altaria Extreme Speed vs. +6 0 HP / 4 Def Swoobat: 135-159 (49 - 57.8%) -- 53.1% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Diggersby Extreme Speed vs. +6 0 HP / 4 Def Swoobat: 102-121 (37 - 44%) -- 99.8% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Terrakion Stone Edge vs. +6 0 HP / 4 Def Swoobat: 134-158 (48.7 - 57.4%) -- 45.3% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
scarf terrak cant even revenge without a crit. but most will be using diamond storm lets be serious here. all in all, id argue THIS set should be the main Bat set.

edit: oops. calced some with 252/4 Hp/Def...still viable, but the damage decrease is noticeable VS chansey.

 

[aesf]

Okay, 2 days have passed, and after reading the arguments from the past week or so, Mega Pinsir is Banned. tagging The Immortal for the 19th time for implementation

 

[Chopin Alkaninoff]

Welcome to the official Sketchmons Viability Rankings topic. You should know the drill by now; In this thread, we as a community will rank every single usable Pokemon into "tiers." In this thread, you're encouraged to post your thoughts and opinions on the various Pokemon that are usable in Sketchmons and what tier they should fall under. Posts in this thread will be taken into account when deciding rank changes.
The general idea of the topic is to rank each Sketchmons pokemon under "rankings" that go in descending order. Since this is a general tier list, everything is lumped together. There won't be any segregation between offense & defense threats.

• EX: Garchomp can be ranked in A tier as an offensive threat, Ferrothorn can be ranked under A as supportive threat and Skarmory can be can also be ranked in B tier as a defensive threat. These are just examples not representative of their future or current ranks.

Sketchmons Ranking Tier List
(In alphabetical order)
S Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are at the top of the Sketchmons metagame
S+ Rank

View attachment 49396 Pinsir (Mega)
View attachment 49336 Thundurus-I
S- rank

View attachment 49401 Altaria (Mega)
View attachment 49417 Clefable
View attachment 49407 Metagross (Mega)
A Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are fantastic in the Sketchmons metagame.
A+ Rank


View attachment 49335 Diggersby
View attachment 49352 Heatran
View attachment 49353 Porygon-Z
View attachment 49397 Charizard (Mega - X)
View attachment 49404 Scizor (Mega)
View attachment 49341 Keldeo
View attachment 49381 Gengar
View attachment 49370 Lopunny (Mega)
View attachment 49362 Garchomp
View attachment 49340 Hoopa-U
A Rank

View attachment 49357 Weavile
View attachment 49360 Magnezone
View attachment 49390 Azumarill
View attachment 49400 Sceptile (Mega)
View attachment 49424 Klefki
View attachment 49377 Cloyster
View attachment 49411 Gardevoir (Mega)
View attachment 49403 Alakazam (Mega)
View attachment 49361 Tyranitar
View attachment 49406 Slowbro (Mega)
View attachment 49349 Hippowdon
View attachment 49402 Diancie (Mega)
A- Rank

View attachment 49359 Serperior
View attachment 49419 Landorus-T
View attachment 49410 Medicham (Mega)
View attachment 49418 Zapdos
View attachment 49355 Excadrill
View attachment 49420 Terrakion
View attachment 49398 Charizard (Mega-Y)
View attachment 49405 Gyarados (Mega)
B Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are great in the Sketchmons metagame.
B+ Rank

View attachment 49415 Starmie
View attachment 49365 Suicune
View attachment 49332 Talonflame
View attachment 49373 Jirachi
View attachment 49337 Sylveon
View attachment 49393 Chansey
View attachment 49360 Magnezone
View attachment 49331 Bisharp
View attachment 49367 Latias
View attachment 49369 Latios

B Rank

View attachment 49342 Volcarona
View attachment 49421 Skarmory
View attachment 49413 Aggron (Mega)
View attachment 49433 The Immortal
View attachment 49427 Rotom-W
View attachment 49425 Pidgeot (Mega)
View attachment 49350 Gliscor
View attachment 49379Gyarados
View attachment 49343 Hydreigon
View attachment 49384 Quagsire
B- Rank

View attachment 49428 Aurorus
View attachment 49416 Dragonite
View attachment 49371 Sableye
C Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that have notable niches in the Sketchmons metagame.
C+ Rank

View attachment 49339 Goodra
View attachment 49334 Cobalion
View attachment 49375 Shedinja
View attachment 49383 Aerodactyl
View attachment 49354 Cofagrigus
View attachment 49358 Rhyperior
View attachment 49430Malamar
View attachment 49429Victini
C Rank
View attachment 49363 Crawdaunt
View attachment 49389 Magneton
View attachment 49333Bouffelant
C- Rank

View attachment 49374 Slaking
View attachment 49426 Snaquaza
D Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are mediocre in the Sketchmons metagame.

View attachment 49431 Regigigas
View attachment 49351 Manaphy
Rules

• Post intelligently. Posts like "I think pokemon X should be in this tier" will be deleted.

• Usage statistics may be used to support an argument or a claim, but don't base your ENTIRE argument around them. For example, you can't just say "Pokemon X shouldn't be this tier because they aren't used that often!"

• Suspect talk, unrelated stuff, one liners that ask questions that provide no substance, something that doesn't really pertain to rankings or petty arguments about semantics and definitions, such as the definition of a counter as one example, will be deleted.

Happy posting ♪♪

Just so everyone knows the shit I've been through while making this, i've asked people, multiple people for help, and i've gotten guys helping me like once or twice but consistently? None. But of course, plenty of people who are barely doing any work who'd JUMP on the chance to host it themselves, that's really shitty. Whatever, it's done now. Enjoy people

At first, I thought it looks kind of bad, but it's actually better than I thought. Nice job :)

Some things I want to say.

Clefable: this thing is good, but it's definitely not S rank. S rank means it's a meta defining poke, which Clefable clearly isn't.

Charizard-Mega-X: Now that everything gets set up moves, I don't really agree with this being in A+. Sure, Tough Claws V-Create is nice, but Dragon Dance + V-Create is counter productive.

Magnezone: How's this in A? It's good only at trapping Steels. It's slow, so it almost always wear Scarf. Should be B or B+ I think.

Scizor-Mega: It's actually good, but it's kinda slow for an offensive metagame and it's primary STAB moves (Gear Grind usually) has bad coverage, even though it hits hard. Not really A+ worthy I think.

Latias: You should remove this and rank the mega because it's completely outclassed by the mega.

 

[I like donkeys]

Welcome to the official Sketchmons Viability Rankings topic. You should know the drill by now; In this thread, we as a community will rank every single usable Pokemon into "tiers." In this thread, you're encouraged to post your thoughts and opinions on the various Pokemon that are usable in Sketchmons and what tier they should fall under. Posts in this thread will be taken into account when deciding rank changes.
The general idea of the topic is to rank each Sketchmons pokemon under "rankings" that go in descending order. Since this is a general tier list, everything is lumped together. There won't be any segregation between offense & defense threats.

• EX: Garchomp can be ranked in A tier as an offensive threat, Ferrothorn can be ranked under A as supportive threat and Skarmory can be can also be ranked in B tier as a defensive threat. These are just examples not representative of their future or current ranks.

Sketchmons Ranking Tier List
(In alphabetical order)
S Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are at the top of the Sketchmons metagame
S+ Rank

View attachment 49396 Pinsir (Mega)
View attachment 49336 Thundurus-I
S- rank

View attachment 49401 Altaria (Mega)
View attachment 49417 Clefable
View attachment 49407 Metagross (Mega)
A Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are fantastic in the Sketchmons metagame.
A+ Rank


View attachment 49335 Diggersby
View attachment 49352 Heatran
View attachment 49353 Porygon-Z
View attachment 49397 Charizard (Mega - X)
View attachment 49404 Scizor (Mega)
View attachment 49341 Keldeo
View attachment 49381 Gengar
View attachment 49370 Lopunny (Mega)
View attachment 49362 Garchomp
View attachment 49340 Hoopa-U
A Rank

View attachment 49357 Weavile
View attachment 49360 Magnezone
View attachment 49390 Azumarill
View attachment 49400 Sceptile (Mega)
View attachment 49424 Klefki
View attachment 49377 Cloyster
View attachment 49411 Gardevoir (Mega)
View attachment 49403 Alakazam (Mega)
View attachment 49361 Tyranitar
View attachment 49406 Slowbro (Mega)
View attachment 49349 Hippowdon
View attachment 49402 Diancie (Mega)
A- Rank

View attachment 49359 Serperior
View attachment 49419 Landorus-T
View attachment 49410 Medicham (Mega)
View attachment 49418 Zapdos
View attachment 49355 Excadrill
View attachment 49420 Terrakion
View attachment 49398 Charizard (Mega-Y)
View attachment 49405 Gyarados (Mega)
B Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are great in the Sketchmons metagame.
B+ Rank

View attachment 49415 Starmie
View attachment 49365 Suicune
View attachment 49332 Talonflame
View attachment 49373 Jirachi
View attachment 49337 Sylveon
View attachment 49393 Chansey
View attachment 49360 Magnezone
View attachment 49331 Bisharp
View attachment 49367 Latias
View attachment 49369 Latios

B Rank

View attachment 49342 Volcarona
View attachment 49421 Skarmory
View attachment 49413 Aggron (Mega)
View attachment 49433 The Immortal
View attachment 49427 Rotom-W
View attachment 49425 Pidgeot (Mega)
View attachment 49350 Gliscor
View attachment 49379Gyarados
View attachment 49343 Hydreigon
View attachment 49384 Quagsire
B- Rank

View attachment 49428 Aurorus
View attachment 49416 Dragonite
View attachment 49371 Sableye
C Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that have notable niches in the Sketchmons metagame.
C+ Rank

View attachment 49339 Goodra
View attachment 49334 Cobalion
View attachment 49375 Shedinja
View attachment 49383 Aerodactyl
View attachment 49354 Cofagrigus
View attachment 49358 Rhyperior
View attachment 49430Malamar
View attachment 49429Victini
C Rank
View attachment 49363 Crawdaunt
View attachment 49389 Magneton
View attachment 49333Bouffelant
C- Rank

View attachment 49374 Slaking
View attachment 49426 Snaquaza
D Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are mediocre in the Sketchmons metagame.

View attachment 49431 Regigigas
View attachment 49351 Manaphy
Rules

• Post intelligently. Posts like "I think pokemon X should be in this tier" will be deleted.

• Usage statistics may be used to support an argument or a claim, but don't base your ENTIRE argument around them. For example, you can't just say "Pokemon X shouldn't be this tier because they aren't used that often!"

• Suspect talk, unrelated stuff, one liners that ask questions that provide no substance, something that doesn't really pertain to rankings or petty arguments about semantics and definitions, such as the definition of a counter as one example, will be deleted.

Happy posting ♪♪

Okay, 2 days have passed, and after reading the arguments from the past week or so, Mega Pinsir is Banned. tagging The Immortal for the 19th time for implementation

Welp, looks like a complete revision of the viability rankings is required now that Mega Pinsir is banned :/

EDIT: What does this mean about the move clause? Part of the reason it was implemented was to balance Mega Pinsir, but now that it's banned is there going to be some other rule in place? Or will it remain the same?

EDIT part 2: I'm very disappointed in the lack of Ditto in the viability rankings, so I nominate it for A- or B+, otherwise good work on the viability rankings aja <3

 

[thesecondbest]

Yeah Ditto is awesome. Clef is pathetic when it is used for its movepool normally. I'd like to see serp higher and cloyster lower as well (cloyster isnt good with hax items banned and serp is so versatile, i've been using av v-create + giga drain to tank through teams and it works). Regular Scizor and Regular Aero both have powerful new moves and I would rank them, just not sure where. Also Blastoise is bae
EDIT: Move clause is not implemented, I just lost because of it: the guy had ESpeed on snorlax after using it with Ampbipom. Fix please?
EDIT2: Please ban Spore. It's broken. Or prankster + spore, that combo was never meant to exist. It neutralizes any threat that isnt serperior and can give you free setup as well. It's uncompetitve and risk-free, so it really has no reason to not be banned.

 

[Akumeoy]

Yeah Ditto is awesome. Clef is pathetic when it is used for its movepool normally. I'd like to see serp higher and cloyster lower as well (cloyster isnt good with hax items banned and serp is so versatile, i've been using av v-create + giga drain to tank through teams and it works). Regular Scizor and Regular Aero both have powerful new moves and I would rank them, just not sure where. Also Blastoise is bae
EDIT: Move clause is not implemented, I just lost because of it: the guy had ESpeed on snorlax after using it with Ampbipom. Fix please?
EDIT2: Please ban Spore. It's broken. Or prankster + spore, that combo was never meant to exist. It neutralizes any threat that isnt serperior and can give you free setup as well. It's uncompetitve and risk-free, so it really has no reason to not be banned.

If you're having Spore problems, have you tried finding room for a pair of Safety Goggles or a Lum Berry on your team? Thundurus leads more often than not (for some reason), so it shouldn't be hard to lead with something that it would want to status and just surprise KO it. That's just my preferred strategy though, other people probably have their own solutions.

Note: If you want Spore banned, be aware that Dark Void is less reliable, yes, but not auto-stopped by Grass-types and Safety Goggles. Prankster Dark Void will be a bit more than 80% as effective as Prankster Spore.

Really, I don't see Spore as much worse than any of the various priority moves in this meta.

 

[dsm77773]

So now that Pinsir is gone I'd put Thundurus in S as well as all those in S- with it, so we're left with as S ranking, no pluses or minuses.
With this done, I'd drop Clefable, A seems good for it imo, the only reason I'd use it would be Unaware, which is great and such, but not as meta defining as Thundurus's Prankster Topsy-Turvy.
Supporting adding common Sketched moves for each mon in the VR.
Also why is Snaquaza in C- rank?
EDIT: And The Immortal on B

 

[Lord Death Man]

Try suspecting jirachi as well with sacred fire

I honestly think a 4-attacks special set/sub 3-attacks with Seed Flare (and HP Ground) is much more awful to deal with - Sacred Fire has some nasty switch ins like Geomancy/Quiver Dance Heatran, Seed Flare has nothing and is super unexpected.

Anyways, a few a few thoughts on Viability.

Dragonite B- > B or B+. Multiscale means it can almost always set up. Espeed makes it harder for Espeeders to revenge than almost anything else. It can run Dragon's Ascent, V-Create, or Shell Smash pretty easily with low risk. Importantly, it can often set up on other set-up mons and then revenge.

Mega Venusaur Unranked > C. It checks a bunch of stuff through thick fat (most Altaria and Serperior sets, a few Heatran sets), Quiver Dance/Lava Plume are cool moves that make it less passive than it could be and it has reliable recovery to begin with.

Ferrothorn Unranked > B. It sort of checks Espeeders and Powder can really punish a lot of things - Serp and scarf Rachi being obvious ones.

Magnezone is ranked in A and B+ - I think it's probably better off in A but I really can see both. It checks a lot of top threats and destroys defensive Heatrans and Klefkis.

Chansey B+ > A-. Subpass is a great set in a meta with a strong lack of taunt and some very nasty set up sweepers. It can alternatively use it's sketched move to be much less passive than normal mons.

Also regular zam should be ranked among the mega or higher imo, sash heart swap can reliably revenge most of the meta and can actually do stuff to espeeders unlike Thundy, but is otherwise outclassed in that role BUT is still a solid revenger outside of that role. Can't think of many other moves to sketch onto it except sash shell smash/tail glow are okayish, it does some alright stuff and isn't worse than it's mega.

 

[Ghoul King]

Yeah, I'm going to take note of all nominations. If you want something ranked that isn't ranked I'm super open to ranking them, when the player base is so small (compared to a perma ladder) it's easy to forget certain mons, so I'm very much agreeing of ranking alot these mons, unfortunately I'm unsure of how to edit the tiny sprites in and removing the "attached file part" before you respond to this please just send me a PM as of how to fix it, so we don't clog the chat.

You can just link to the image URL of other sites -such as Bulbapedia- instead of attaching the files to the post itself.

YES MEGA PINSIR IS BANNED PRAISE BE

I brought up Cofagrigus a few days ago, and I'm finding it's actually a really cool choice on my team -in part because it has Trick Room and my team runs slow- because it really messes up a lot of Physical attackers (There goes Pixilate/Huge Power/whatever), it can tank a surprising amount of damage even without Mummy, and it's primary flaw -no reliable recovery- is no more.

 

[Jaguar360]

Nomming Snaquaza to rise from C- --> B-. He's a pretty underrated mon imo and with Mega Pinsir banned, he's alot easier to use now.

Serperior should rise from A- --> A+. V-Create is incredibly dangerous on it and makes it one of the meta-defining Pokemon in Sketchmons. While its movepool is shallow, its fourth moveslot allows for surprising versatility with options like HP Ground for Heatran, Taunt, Giga Drain, Synthesis, Glare, Aromatherapy, etc, making it difficult to find an all-purpose solution to it outside of Prankster Topsy Turvy. Having its strongest revenge killer banned makes sweeping even easier now. The arrogant serpent deserves a raise.

Nomming Entei from unranked --> B-. BellySpeed works really well for it, as its combination of power, bulk and speed alongside utility pre-setup allows it to function well. Sp. Def Entei is also a good set that checks Boomburst and Mega Charizard Y. It can either run Recover to be a reliable check and counter to these mons or a Coil + RestTalk set to possibly sweep.

Entei sets

Entei @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Pressure
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Belly Drum
- Extreme Speed
- Sacred Fire
- Stone Edge

Entei @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Recover
- Sacred Fire
- Toxic
- Bulldoze

Entei @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Coil
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Sacred Fire

 

[Akumeoy]

Mega Venusaur Unranked > C. It checks a bunch of stuff through thick fat (most Altaria and Serperior sets, a few Heatran sets), Quiver Dance/Lava Plume are cool moves that make it less passive than it could be and it has reliable recovery to begin with..

I feel like three-move coverage for Megasaur would probably tend towards Giga Drain + Scald + HP Ice for neutral coverage and #basedScald, or Giga Drain + Sludge Bomb + Earth Power because fuk heatran. I attempted QD Venusaur, but after Synthesis, QD, and Giga Drain, it's hard to find a coverage move that doesn't leave it horribly walled.

I don't think it checks Serperior, however. It requires 252 HP / 240 SpD at minimum to tank two Life Orb Overheats from +0 after Stealth Rock (LOless and no rocks does get checked). For V-Create sets that run Synthesis, Megasaur needs to be offensive to switch into a V-Create and 2HKO with Sludge Bomb... but then it can't switch into Overheat sets. And if you've somehow let it get up a V-Create before switching to Megasaur, it can't 2HKO through Serperior's defensive boosts. While it can still wear Serperior down, it has to know that Serperior isn't an Overheat set before it switches in. It does still check a ton of things, and can use Earth Power to lure and boop Heatran (but it's strapped for moveslots), so it could probably take a rank. It really doesn't gain much from this meta, though, as it can't rely on its bulk/typing/ability nearly as much for any of its sets -- checking Thundurus is pretty cool until it takes an Oblivion Wing to the face, for example. C is fine.

 

[Imperator Romanum]

Viability rankings are now updated!

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/sketchmons-269067554

Cube putting in serious work, will provide more

Btw, I really want a Thundurus suspect. Taunt NP Oblivion wing absolutely demolishes stall as any residual damage is removed by Oblivion wing.

 

[dsm77773]

Viability rankings are now updated!

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/sketchmons-269067554

Cube putting in serious work, will provide more

Btw, I really want a Thundurus suspect. Taunt NP Oblivion wing absolutely demolishes stall as any residual damage is removed by Oblivion wing.

Could you give a code for the changes like the other VR do? Just to make them easier to figure out and such

 

[Imperator Romanum]

I just added things, barely moved anything. Here's what we'll do, lets post a slate of nominations and then in 3-4 days we'll decide on it, so try to keep the discussion around the slate

Talonflame A- to A
Alakazam A to A+
Serperior A- to A
Aurorus B- to C-
Hydreigon B to B-
Chansey B to A
Cloyster A to B

Feel free to add anything to the discussion, but atleast discuss one pokemon in the slate, if you nom something that should move up or down we'll add it to the next slate ect.

 

[sin(pi)]

I went through the VR and put commonly sketched moves next to each 'mon. I haven't seem a lot of these in action, so if I didn't know what is usually sketched, or if I thought I might've missed something, I put an asterisk (*) next to the name. I'd appreciate if someone else could go through and modify what I've done :)

Welcome to the official Sketchmons Viability Rankings topic. You should know the drill by now; In this thread, we as a community will rank every single usable Pokemon into "tiers." In this thread, you're encouraged to post your thoughts and opinions on the various Pokemon that are usable in Sketchmons and what tier they should fall under. Posts in this thread will be taken into account when deciding rank changes.
The general idea of the topic is to rank each Sketchmons pokemon under "rankings" that go in descending order. Since this is a general tier list, everything is lumped together. There won't be any segregation between offense & defense threats.

• EX: Garchomp can be ranked in A tier as an offensive threat, Ferrothorn can be ranked under A as supportive threat and Skarmory can be can also be ranked in B tier as a defensive threat. These are just examples not representative of their future or current ranks.

Sketchmons Ranking Tier List
(In alphabetical order)
S Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are at the top of the Sketchmons metagame
S+ Rank

Thundurus-I (Sleep move, Oblivion Wing)
S- rank

Clefable (Quiver Dance)

Kyurem-Black (Physical Ice STAB, various setup moves)
A Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are fantastic in the Sketchmons metagame.
A+ Rank

Mega Altaria (Extreme Speed, Boomburst)
View attachment 49335 Diggersby (Extreme Speed)
View attachment 49352 Heatran (Geomancy, *)
View attachment 49353 Porygon-Z (Boomburst)
View attachment 49397 Charizard (Mega - X) (V-Create, *)
View attachment 49404 Scizor (Mega) (Shift Gear, Belly Drum, Gear Grind, *)
View attachment 49341 Keldeo (Water Spout, Volt Switch)
View attachment 49381 Gengar (Sleep Move, Tail Glow)
View attachment 49370 Lopunny (Mega) (Extreme Speed)
View attachment 49362 Garchomp (Recovery move, Sticky Web, Shift Gear)
View attachment 49340 Hoopa-U (Various setup moves, Sucker Punch)

Mega Sableye (Sleep move, Parting Shot, *)

Tornadus-Therian (*)

Mega Metagross (Various setup moves, Heavy Slam)
A Rank

View attachment 49357 Weavile (*
View attachment 49360 Magnezone (Fire-type coverage)
View attachment 49390 Azumarill (*)
View attachment 49400 Sceptile (Mega) (Electrify)
View attachment 49424 Klefki (Recovery move, Sleep Move, Topsy-Turvy, Parting Shot)
View attachment 49377 Cloyster (Water Shuriken)
View attachment 49411 Gardevoir (Mega) (Quiver Dance, Boomburst)
View attachment 49403 Alakazam (Mega) (Tail Glow)
View attachment 49361 Tyranitar (Recovery Move, Rapid Spin)
View attachment 49406 Slowbro (Mega) (*)
View attachment 49349 Hippowdon (*)
View attachment 49402 Diancie (Mega) (*)
A- Rank

Mega Latias (*)
View attachment 49359 Serperior (V-Create, Overheat, Secret Sword)
View attachment 49419 Landorus-T (Recovery move, Dragon Ascent)
View attachment 49410 Medicham (Mega) (Mach Punch)
View attachment 49418 Zapdos (Quiver Dance)
View attachment 49355 Excadrill (Shift Gear)
View attachment 49420 Terrakion (Diamond Storm)
View attachment 49398 Charizard (Mega-Y) (Secret Sword)
View attachment 49405 Gyarados (Mega) (*)

Ferrothorn (Recovery move, Rapid Spin, Will-O'-Wisp)

B Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are great in the Sketchmons metagame.
B+ Rank

View attachment 49415 Starmie (Dark Void, Volt Switch)
View attachment 49365 Suicune (Quiver Dance)
View attachment 49332 Talonflame (Earthquake, Dragon Ascent)
View attachment 49373 Jirachi (Sacred Fire, Seed Flare)
View attachment 49337 Sylveon (Boomburst)
View attachment 49393 Chansey (Transform, Will-O'-Wisp)
View attachment 49360 Magnezone (Fire-type coverage move)
View attachment 49331 Bisharp (*)
View attachment 49367 Latias (*)
View attachment 49369 Latios (*)

Aerodactyl (Head Smash, Brave Bird)

B Rank

View attachment 49342 Volcarona (*)
View attachment 49421 Skarmory (Will-O'-Wisp, Memento)
View attachment 49413 Aggron (Mega) (Recovery move)
View attachment 49433 The Immortal (Magikarp's Revenge)
View attachment 49427 Rotom-W (Scald, Recovery Move)
View attachment 49425 Pidgeot (Mega) (Zap Cannon, Inferno, Boomburst)
View attachment 49350 Gliscor (*)
View attachment 49379Gyarados (Dragon Ascent, Recovery move)
View attachment 49343 Hydreigon (*)
View attachment 49384 Quagsire (Hazards)

Ditto (Skill Swap)
B- Rank

View attachment 49428 Aurorus (Extreme Speed, Boomburst)
View attachment 49416 Dragonite (Various Setup moves)
View attachment 49371 Sableye (Parting Shot, Topsy-Turvy, Sleep move)
C Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that have notable niches in the Sketchmons metagame.
C+ Rank

View attachment 49339 Goodra (Recovery move)
View attachment 49334 Cobalion
View attachment 49375 Shedinja (Endeavour)
View attachment 49354 Cofagrigus (Recovery move)
View attachment 49358 Rhyperior (Recovery move)
View attachment 49430Malamar (V-Create)
View attachment 49429Victini/(*)

Bronzong (*)
C Rank

View attachment 49363 Crawdaunt (Pursuit, Sucker Punch)
View attachment 49389 Magneton (Fire-type coverage)
View attachment 49333Bouffalant (Extreme Speed)
C- Rank

View attachment 49374 Slaking (Skill Swap)
View attachment 49426 Snaquaza (Splash)
D Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are mediocre in the Sketchmons metagame.

View attachment 49431 Regigigas (Skill Swap)
View attachment 49351 Manaphy (Freeze-Dry)
Rules

• Post intelligently. Posts like "I think pokemon X should be in this tier" will be deleted.

• Usage statistics may be used to support an argument or a claim, but don't base your ENTIRE argument around them. For example, you can't just say "Pokemon X shouldn't be this tier because they aren't used that often!"

• Suspect talk, unrelated stuff, one liners that ask questions that provide no substance, something that doesn't really pertain to rankings or petty arguments about semantics and definitions, such as the definition of a counter as one example, will be deleted.

Happy posting ♪♪

post is complete now

 

[thesecondbest]

Scizor should really have gear grind, will check other stuff when I get home.

EDIT: OK, here are the rest of the contributions I can make:

Add the aforementioned sludge bomb on keldeo if you feel it’s viable. QD also seems nice on Gengar. I tried rapid spin on weavile since it is really unblockable, but idk what others run.

Slash earth power on mag for tran. Add Knock and sucker on tran. Add cotton guard and stored power on slowbro. Diancie probably runs play rough. Add oblivion wing to zapdos and zard y and possible quiver to zard y. Magnezone is in B+ and A. Add special rend to latis and shift gear to bisharp (I used rock polish once upon a time so this will certainly be better) Add dragon ascent to dnite and wow (twave spdef is usable in ou why not use wow). Add Magic coat to sheddy. And just wondering, is doom desire on anything? I don’t know a particular user but it’s a swaggy move.

AJA, this is for you: shouldn’t sableye be ranked higher? In stabmons, sableye is higher than the mega, and it plays the same role here. Just wondering. Also Malamar seems way too high as such a gimmick mon, but Serperior is really good so maybe Mal is too, I just haven’t used it. Just wondering.

 

[I like donkeys]

I just added things, barely moved anything. Here's what we'll do, lets post a slate of nominations and then in 3-4 days we'll decide on it, so try to keep the discussion around the slate

Talonflame A- to A
Alakazam A to A+
Serperior A- to A
Aurorus B- to C-
Hydreigon B to B-
Chansey B to A
Cloyster A to B

Feel free to add anything to the discussion, but atleast discuss one pokemon in the slate, if you nom something that should move up or down we'll add it to the next slate ect.

My response to these and whether i agree with them or not:

don't be silly wrap yo willy

Talonflame
I have no opinion on Talonflame atm. Why do you want to raise it? I presume it's because Talonflame is the only user of flying priority now that Pinsir is banned? I suppose that's worthy of a raise.

Alakazam:
tbh i don't know why it was up in A in the first place, let alone A+, what makes it so good in first place? I haven't seen it in battle so i don't know for sure how effective it is but it appears to be lame. What does mega alakazam have over other special attackers (other than trace)? It can't hold items, weak to priority, no sash, meh typing, uses precious mega stone, it appears pretty lame actually. At least regular alakazam can live a hit with focus sash. Unless someone has quality replays that prove otherwise, i would even suggest moving mega alakazam down to B or even C rank.

Serperior:
Now that Mega Pinsir is banned Serperior isn't effortlessly revenge-killed anymore, A or A+ seems like a good fit for this monster.
I might even put him on my team now lel

Aurorus:
Maybe you should consult people who are more experienced with this mon, but I think it has a fantastic niche of being the only non-mega refrigerate user (and the mega is pretty bad anyway lel) and resists common priority by virtue of it's rock typing. I dunno, do what you will.

I'll do more but i have to go :(

 

[Slayer95]

Move Clause is now live in the server.

 

[Lord Death Man]

I feel like three-move coverage for Megasaur would probably tend towards Giga Drain + Scald + HP Ice for neutral coverage and #basedScald, or Giga Drain + Sludge Bomb + Earth Power because fuk heatran. I attempted QD Venusaur, but after Synthesis, QD, and Giga Drain, it's hard to find a coverage move that doesn't leave it horribly walled.

Yeah I probably overhyped it's positives, but I did only nom it for C so eh. I haven't seen Overheat Serp (though I have seen Draco and that beats it the same anyway so w/e), but I do think it's just a decently solid anti-meta mon with a strong niche, but often unnecessary niche. It also checks non-Flying Keld sets which seem to be the norm - I'm terrified of running into an offensive cm + Oblivion Wing Keld but I've never faced one. You really have to build around it though which is so rare in this meta, plus it's kind of competing for the same role as Mega Altaria.

Aurorus B- to C-

This is a little sad but I kind of agree. Band Espeed and Specs Boomburst are it's two best sets and it struggles *hard* with the existence of Heatran in the meta plus move clase/there being faster, more reliable Boombursters/Ice-type Espeed being a very specific niche. It can make life hard for Thundy/teams who don't have any ice checks for whatever reason but that's really it. Surprisingly common but I don't think that makes it more viable. When your physical set is running Earth Power and Freeze Dry for coverage you know something went wrong.

I also think a Thundy-I suspect could be nice, it's just generally one of the best mons available. Spore/Oblivion Wing/Aeroblast (it's over 30% stronger, it's viable)/Heart Swap/Nature Power (it's essentially special Espeed) are all good and viable sketched moves that make it really rough to face. Not really sure it's broken but I haven't really faced a whole lot of dangerous sets.

 

[Imperator Romanum]

I'm completely fine with placing MegaSaur in either A- too A. It gains reliable recovery, which is huge. It's A in OU and it doesn't lose anything, nor is the metagame harsh to it, the loss of flying spam in Mega Pinsir is great for it. If you're looking for a set just go 252/252 Modest with Giga drain, recovery, Sludge Bomb and HP fire. It's ability to blanket check a HUGGGEEEE amount of pokemon is great! You're all underselling it a fuck-ton

I like donkeys what is it with you that's nominating things to drop a massive amount? Mega Alakazam loses nothing and yes, it might be susceptible for a drop to A- this being a highly offensive metagame is great for it. If you're going to nominate something to drop from A to C nobody is going to take you seriously...

To add onto that, if something doesn't lose something massive like Kings rock, it's not going to drop more than one rank, so chill.