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Highest Stat Meta

Manchamp said:
My first venture has been a special Defense team, and I have had quite a lot of success with it (it's a very weird looking team but effective.) However, I have found that I need to run Hitmontop on my team because he is the only SpDef mom capable of countering and OHKOing Ttar+Exca offense. He does the job well and makes a great spinner against Def/HP teams (give Hitmontop a good ranking on SpDef teams).

That said, if I don't keep Top alive and my opponent brings in Exca, I'm as good as dead. Plz ban
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How about Rotom-W? I'm not saying you absolutely need to use it on SpD teams, but it seems like a pretty good answer to the sand core from what I can see, while other bulky waters such as Suicune or Milotic aren't particularly bad options. SpD teams don't have all that much, but I wouldn't say they're completely weak to the sand core commonly used by Atk.
 
AllJokesAside said:
Because speed, attack, special attack and HP don't have access to Rotom-W, that's the problem. 4/6 times you don't have to worry about Rotom-W
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We were discussing SpD teams in particular. Atk teams have Lando-T, HP teams have things like Amoonguss, Alomomola, etc. Speed and SpA teams are the ones that struggle vs. the sand core, however I find they can still get some counterplay: SpA can use things like M-Venu, Keldeo, and Zapdos if predicted well, while Speed has access to things such as M-Lop or M-Medi, which can stop the core from doing too much if brought in at the right time. All teams get access to Mew (which can WoW Exca nicely) and Manaphy (which runs a good rain dance set) as well. I'm not saying the sand core isn't strong, but all teams can play around it to a certain extent at least, and I don't see it 6-0ing well-built teams everywhere I look.
 
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Excadrill Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Amoonguss: 430-508 (99.7 - 117.8%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO

+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Excadrill Earthquake vs. 120 HP / 136 Def Alomomola: 491-578 (98 - 115.3%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO

Scald does less than 40%

+1 252+ Atk Life Orb Excadrill Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Landorus-T: 222-263 (58.1 - 68.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Excadrill is a huge issue in this metagame, it's ability to absolutely every tier except for defence is horrible. Personally I ran air balloon on mine, which turn the above calc redundant as you'll be 2HKOing after Stealth rock.

+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Excadrill Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Keldeo: 520-614 (160.9 - 190%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Excadrill Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Venusaur: 298-352 (81.8 - 96.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Life Orb Excadrill Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Lopunny: 253-298 (93.3 - 109.9%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO

252+ Atk Life Orb Excadrill Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Medicham: 274-325 (104.9 - 124.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Excadrill Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mew: 480-565 (118.8 - 139.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Excadrill Earthquake vs. 96 HP / 0 Def Manaphy: 480-565 (131.5 - 154.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Depending on the tier, getting an SD will be easy vs special defence/hp and isn't needed versus speed/attack/special attack


 
Yeah attack is pretty cancerous. I'm undefeated with it, and exca puts in sooo much work. Of course, having kube and mmeta helps, as those guys are pretty op, so I don't know if exca is the issue or them. But I think it is too early to ban it, a suspect seems like a far better idea.
 
thesecondbest said:
Well I lot my perfect record to this garbage
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/higheststatmeta-278178994
but the meta is still fun. HO seems to be really strong. I'm going to try out stall starting tomorrow but I don't expect many good results. What have your experiences been?
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I've been using Kl4ng's stall team that he posted on the first page, and I have to say it's been pretty effective from what i've experienced. I haven't played that much though - i think the last time i played was when the Ubers were still allowed, so it should perform even better than it did before. So yeah, stall works in this meta.
 
AllJokesAside said:
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Excadrill Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Amoonguss: 430-508 (99.7 - 117.8%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO

+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Excadrill Earthquake vs. 120 HP / 136 Def Alomomola: 491-578 (98 - 115.3%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO

Scald does less than 40%

+1 252+ Atk Life Orb Excadrill Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Landorus-T: 222-263 (58.1 - 68.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Excadrill is a huge issue in this metagame, it's ability to absolutely every tier except for defence is horrible. Personally I ran air balloon on mine, which turn the above calc redundant as you'll be 2HKOing after Stealth rock.

+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Excadrill Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Keldeo: 520-614 (160.9 - 190%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Excadrill Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Venusaur: 298-352 (81.8 - 96.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Life Orb Excadrill Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Lopunny: 253-298 (93.3 - 109.9%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO

252+ Atk Life Orb Excadrill Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Medicham: 274-325 (104.9 - 124.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Excadrill Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mew: 480-565 (118.8 - 139.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Excadrill Earthquake vs. 96 HP / 0 Def Manaphy: 480-565 (131.5 - 154.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Depending on the tier, getting an SD will be easy vs special defence/hp and isn't needed versus speed/attack/special attack
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The majority of these mons can come in on Ttar, meaning exca won't get the SD boosts. Especially given that most Ttar are support sets for helping Exca, I find mew can work pretty well with a physically defensive set:
0 Atk Tyranitar Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mew: 162-192 (40 - 47.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after sandstorm damage and Leftovers recovery
While a physically defensive rain dance / cm / rest / scald manaphy set works well on a large number of teams and counters the sand core extremely well.
I like donkeys said:
I've been using Kl4ng's stall team that he posted on the first page, and I have to say it's been pretty effective from what i've experienced. I haven't played that much though - i think the last time i played was when the Ubers were still allowed, so it should perform even better than it did before. So yeah, stall works in this meta.
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I've been using the team but with Clef > Quag, it's extremely effective in the current meta to be honest. The fact that people think of ttar/exca as the biggest threat means they often don't prepare enough for stall as well, which is in its favour.
 
Articuno I said:
The majority of these mons can come in on Ttar, meaning exca won't get the SD boosts. Especially given that most Ttar are support sets for helping Exca, I find mew can work pretty well with a physically defensive set:
0 Atk Tyranitar Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mew: 162-192 (40 - 47.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after sandstorm damage and Leftovers recovery
While a physically defensive rain dance / cm / rest / scald manaphy set works well on a large number of teams and counters the sand core extremely well.

I've been using the team but with Clef > Quag, it's extremely effective in the current meta to be honest. The fact that people think of ttar/exca as the biggest threat means they often don't prepare enough for stall as well, which is in its favour.
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Forgot to mention I replaced quag with clef as well, we basically have the same team :o
 
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I have discovered that on attack and sp .attack teams Seviper is quite good. It has a diverse moveset and is one of my favorites
 
Excadrill Suspect
excadrill.gif


So, lots of people have been asking for something to be done about the sand core that's extremely strong on ground, and with good reason. It's extremely strong, and while all stats are capable of checking the duo it remains a powerful force. Smooth Rock + Sand Stream is too complex a ban, and neither Sand Stream, Sand Rush or Ttar are in themselves broken, so we're suspecting Exca.

This suspect will work like the last one: we'll put together a council after some discussion, who will then vote on whether it should be banned. The reason we're doing it this way is that the ladder doesn't get a huge amount of activity, and so having elo requirements would mean that either some bad players could vote or, more likely, we wouldn't get enough voters. Instead, earning the right to vote via discussion (both in this thread and on PS!), and playing games at a high level, will ensure a council of people who know what they're talking about.
 
Wow, I guess I will start this off...

Excadrill causes so many favorable matchups for Atk, which makes me believe it's unhealthy for the meta. The ability to outspeed the majority of Speed while also attaining such high Atk to hit HP and Special Defense really hard is absurd. This kinda reminds me of when Ground teams had Smooth Rock a while ago, which made them extremely powerful and overcentralizing among the other types. I believe the same thing can be said here, and the way to fix this is to ban Excadrill.

Hopefully this starts some discussion

Edit: Is this meta really that dead? No one on ladder and no discussion :(
 
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The only thing I see currently are HP teams. I don't blame them, HP has access to Azumarill, Diggersby, and everyone's fan favorite, Chansey. Still, I want more diversity.
Currently I am trying out a Speed team with Tail Glow Smeargle and Mega Manectric with Specs Noivern. It works pretty well, with +4 Mega Manectric being able to two-hit KO Chansey (sometimes..). I use the rest of the team to clean up the mess that my boosted pokemon made. Works pretty well.
 
KittenGaming said:
The only thing I see currently are HP teams. I don't blame them, HP has access to Azumarill, Diggersby, and everyone's fan favorite, Chansey. Still, I want more diversity.
Currently I am trying out a Speed team with Tail Glow Smeargle and Mega Manectric with Specs Noivern. It works pretty well, with +4 Mega Manectric being able to two-hit KO Chansey (sometimes..). I use the rest of the team to clean up the mess that my boosted pokemon made. Works pretty well.
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^tail glow would boost to +3 (x2.5) not +4 (x3), just being picky.
I do agree that this meta lost steam because all I see are Attack and HP teams. I've battled maybe two speed teams and maybe one of each Special stat. That's literally it. Idk if anything is to be done, but I'm just saying that there isn't much focus on the other stats right now. My special defense team still performs quite well though.
 
Manchamp said:
^tail glow would boost to +3 (x2.5) not +4 (x3), just being picky.
I do agree that this meta lost steam because all I see are Attack and HP teams. I've battled maybe two speed teams and maybe one of each Special stat. That's literally it. Idk if anything is to be done, but I'm just saying that there isn't much focus on the other stats right now. My special defense team still performs quite well though.
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I think what KittenGaming meant was 4x, aka +6:
+6 252 SpA Mega Manectric Thunderbolt vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 309-364 (48.1 - 56.6%) -- 89.1% chance to 2HKO

Also, can I ask how that Spe team deals with ttar/exca? It's one of the types that can struggle if unprepared.
 
Yeah, Attack especially is everywhere- and they're all pretty samey, stuff like Kyu-B, Excadrill, Ttar and almost always Manaphy in there. It could probably use some addressing, I think Exca and Manaphy are the main issues.

I've only been using spdef stall and its been really successful. There seems to be a perception that it struggles with Attack, but honestly I'd say it has a pretty great matchup, since people forget that spdef has access to defensive behemoths like Cresselia, Umbreon and Suicune, while simultaneously having a really good Manaphy check with Mega Venu. Honestly, I almost always struggle more with SpAttk which is more likely to carry difficult stallbreakers like CM mons.
 
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Skankovich said:
Yeah, Attack especially is everywhere- and they're all pretty samey, stuff like Kyu-B, Excadrill, Ttar and almost always Manaphy in there. It could probably use some addressing, I think Exca and Manaphy are the main issues.

I've only been using spdef stall and its been really successful. There seems to be a perception that it struggles with Attack, but honestly I'd say it has a pretty great matchup, since people forget that spdef has access to defensive behemoths like Cresselia, Umbreon and Suicune, while simultaneously having a really good Manaphy check with Mega Venu. Honestly, I almost always struggle more with SpAttk which is more likely to carry difficult stallbreakers like CM mons.
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I had to resort to Hitmontop on my SpDef team to deal with ttar + Excadrill, and he does actually a pretty good job. If you're struggling against SpAttk, mega Altaria does really well against it, as it can setup DDs on a lot of special attackers
 
I've found Excadrill isn't really that bad for the team since it struggles to set up, and even then Suicune can live a hit and phase or kill if its taken a tiny bit of damage. I dunno about Mega Alt, just because there's not many spdef options for dealing with Manaphy besides Mega Venusaur- it's not that I find SpAttk an issue persay, more just that it's more difficult to deal with than Attk.
 
Since this meta is almost over, here's my SpDef stall team that I've had a lot of success with:

:xy/umbreon:
Umbreon @ Leftovers
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Wish
- Protect
- Heal Bell
- Foul Play

Umbreon has equal physical bulk to Slowbro and takes on a large amount of physical attackers while hitting back hard with Foul Play. Big physical threats it deals with include Weavile, Mega Meta, Kyu-B, SD Talonflame, SD/Offensive Garchomp, Bisharp... basically almost anything neutral. With this it provides a lot of utility with its cleric moves, and synchronize is really helpful vs M-Sableye, stallbreaker Mew and such.


:xy/cresselia:
Cresselia @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 240 HP / 252 Def / 16 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Moonblast
- Psyshock
- Moonlight

With titanic physical bulk this takes care of the fighting types Umbreon can't, and functions as a wincon. With CM+Psyshock it beats most other CM sweepers. Also helps as another check to Kyu-B and just a general physical sponge, but unlike umbreon it struggles to do much back to most attackers.


:xy/suicune:
Suicune @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 Spe
Bold Nature
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Roar
- Scald

Suicune is as fat as ever and provides phasing, status absorption and importantly pressure, which is a very useful ability for stall. These attributes mean its really useful in stall v stall matchups.
Again, it's a blanket physical wall that deals with most neutral things- it importantly lives a +2 excadrill hit and phases/heavily dents with scald, allowing cresselia to pick up the last slivers of health it will have.


:xy/registeel:
Registeel @ Leftovers
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Seismic Toss
- Thunder Wave
- Protect

Regi is my rock setter and answer to special attackers like M-Garde, the Latis etc. and hits back with Twave. A pretty simple mon.


:xy/venusaur-mega:
Venusaur @ Venusaurite
Ability: Overgrow
EVs: 248 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Giga Drain
- Sludge Bomb
- Synthesis
- Worry Seed

Primarily, my Manaphy and Keldeo answer. Functions as an answer to almost every electric type and specially offensive water too, and provides more offensive presence to the team. Worry Seed seems weird and it is, but its for one situation specifically- last mon bulky set up sweepers that then I can't phase with suicune, like Crocune, Reuniclus and Snorlax. Worry Seed stops them resting and in the case of Reuni lets me toxic it.


:xy/latias:
Latias @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 84 SpD / 176 Spe
Timid Nature
- Roost
- Defog
- Toxic
- Psychic

Latias is my defogger and Char-Y answer primarily. Speed creeps base 100s for the random SD Haxorus or something, in case someone really hates stall- you can run less if you want but it doesn't need all that much bulk to deal with what I need it to. Also outspeeds and dents the never-seen Mega Heracross which really troubles my team if anyone decides to use it.
Umbreon @ Leftovers
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Wish
- Protect
- Heal Bell
- Foul Play

Cresselia @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 240 HP / 252 Def / 16 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Moonblast
- Psyshock
- Moonlight

Suicune @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 Spe
Bold Nature
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Roar
- Scald

Registeel @ Leftovers
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Seismic Toss
- Thunder Wave
- Protect

Venusaur @ Venusaurite
Ability: Overgrow
EVs: 248 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Giga Drain
- Sludge Bomb
- Synthesis
- Worry Seed

Latias @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 84 SpD / 176 Spe
Timid Nature
- Roost
- Defog
- Toxic
- Dragon Pulse
 
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