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Resource ORAS OU Simple Questions, Simple Answers MKII (Read the OP First!) (Now with 100% more Rules!!!)

Alphanex20 said:
I started using a Fire Blast Slowbro and wouldn't you know it, I missed the first FB I threw out! Is FB needed for something or will Flamethrower work? I know that both 2HKO Ferrothorn but is there something I'm not thinking of?
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There's almost no difference between both moves, they have similar damage outputs in their normal targets.

0 SpA Slowbro Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Skarmory: 144-170 (43.1 - 50.8%) -- 3.9% chance to 2HKO
^ Specially defensive

0 SpA Slowbro Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Skarmory: 212-250 (63.4 - 74.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
^Physically defensive

0 SpA Slowbro Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Skarmory: 118-140 (35.3 - 41.9%) -- 86.5% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

0 SpA Slowbro Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Skarmory: 172-204 (51.4 - 61%) -- 94.1% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

0 SpA Slowbro Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 168 SpD Ferrothorn: 200-236 (56.8 - 67%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

0 SpA Slowbro Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 168 SpD Ferrothorn: 244-288 (69.3 - 81.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

There are more targets, but i think you know wich are those.
 
From someone who hasn't been in the loop for years and is coming back: Why is so much random shit banned in OU now? Baton Pass teams are banned, Greninja is banned, Shaymin-S is banned, Landorus is banned, Aegislash is banned, a bunch of mega-evolutions are banned...I mean I'm assuming some thought was put into this, but we never had this much shit banned back in the day.

I found a thread for the rationale behind the recycle/berry thing being banned but none of the others. I've only had limited Wi-Fi play with most of these guys and they didn't seem like a problem, but I see how the meta can be completely different here.
 
I'd like to throw out a fun fact and point out our ban list is smaller than Game Freak's.

Baton Pass was a close to perfect team archetype and destroyed tons of builds, on top of being formulaic as fuck.

Greninja is banned because it had no good counters and was a great cleaner.

Skymin is banned because Serene Grace Air Slash with Base 126 Speed.

Landorus is banned because it's unpredictable and strong as hell.

Aegislash is banned because people are pussies it was an unparalleled tank with an amazing typing.
 
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d2m said:
From someone who hasn't been in the loop for years and is coming back: Why is so much random shit banned in OU now? Baton Pass teams are banned, Greninja is banned, Shaymin-S is banned, Landorus is banned, Aegislash is banned, a bunch of mega-evolutions are banned...I mean I'm assuming some thought was put into this, but we never had this much shit banned back in the day.

I found a thread for the rationale behind the recycle/berry thing being banned but none of the others. I've only had limited Wi-Fi play with most of these guys and they didn't seem like a problem, but I see how the meta can be completely different here.
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Full baton pass teams are banned because they're cancerous. they're way too easy to use and almost impossible to stop. partial bp is still allowed though. Skymin is banned because he's so dang fast, hits hard, and abuses luck. greninja's banned because he was almost impossible for offense to play around. the various m-evos were banned cause they're op (most notably mega salamnce who was so amazing that he's now s in ubers ), more or less. landorous was banned because he was a ridiculously versatile threat who could do whatever he wanted fantastically well. you might wanna go to the suspect thread for aegislash and the others. hope this more or less answered your question.
 
ksr15 said:
Full baton pass teams are banned because they're cancerous. they're way too easy to use and almost impossible to stop. partial bp is still allowed though. Skymin is banned because he's so dang fast, hits hard, and abuses luck. greninja's banned because he was almost impossible for offense to play around. the various m-evos were banned cause they're op (most notably mega salamnce who was so amazing that he's now s in ubers ), more or less. landorous was banned because he was a ridiculously versatile threat who could do whatever he wanted fantastically well. you might wanna go to the suspect thread for aegislash and the others. hope this more or less answered your question.
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Basically this in a nutshell, although "partial bp" in the sense of Geopass here and scolipede pass and stuff like that is gone as well because it's also overly brainless and formulaic. Less stupid forms of Baton Pass, such as Nasty Plot + Baton Pass Celebi, are still allowed.
 
So just nobody ever ran Encore, Haze, Clear Smog, Unaware Clefable, fast Taunt, Perish Song Celebi, or Roar/Whirlwind? Guess Prankster really did break BP. Thanks for the answers guys!

One more question: Have weather teams been banned or are they just bad? Most of the great Rain (Kingdra, Manaphy, Ludicolo, Politoed), Sun (Tangrowth, Jumpluff, Venusaur, Fire types), and Hail (Abomasnow, Glaceon, Stallrein, Froslass) abusers are shit tier now.
 
d2m said:
One more question: Have weather teams been banned or are they just bad? Most of the great Rain (Kingdra, Manaphy, Ludicolo, Politoed), Sun (Tangrowth, Jumpluff, Venusaur, Fire types), and Hail (Abomasnow, Glaceon, Stallrein, Froslass) abusers are shit tier now.
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Hail sucks because of the Ice type's defensive issues, and sun lacks Chlorophyll sweepers (and most of those are Grass-type). Rain and sand, however, are freaking good. In this case you want to look at the viability rankings, not the tiering. Politoed is PU, but that's because Drizzle is banned below OU (Ninetales suffers for similar reasons).

Up here, Toed can pair with any combination of Kingdra/Kabutops/Omastar/Ludicolo (for Swift Swimming), Tornadus-T for Hurricane abuse, many Electrics for Thunder abuse, Ferrothorn to set hazards and benefit from weakened Fire moves, and then a Mega of typically Swampert (also a Swimmer and Electric check), Pinsir (Grass check), or Scizor (Grass check who also loves weakened Fire moves). Sand, for its part, has Tyranitar or Hippowdon as a setter and then a fair number of Sand Rush or Sand Force abusers, Excadrill being the most popular.

(As you can probably tell, I'm not the authority on sand.)
 
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d2m said:
So just nobody ever ran Encore, Haze, Clear Smog, Unaware Clefable, fast Taunt, Perish Song Celebi, or Roar/Whirlwind? Guess Prankster really did break BP. Thanks for the answers guys!
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Do you know what Magic Bounce is?

Edit: Wait isn't rain still godly thanks to megapert? I've heard alot of people just ignore rain when they teambuild cause it's too good. Then again this was quite some time ago and the meta has changed a bit.
 
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d2m said:
So just nobody ever ran Encore, Haze, Clear Smog, Unaware Clefable, fast Taunt, Perish Song Celebi, or Roar/Whirlwind? Guess Prankster really did break BP. Thanks for the answers guys!

One more question: Have weather teams been banned or are they just bad? Most of the great Rain (Kingdra, Manaphy, Ludicolo, Politoed), Sun (Tangrowth, Jumpluff, Venusaur, Fire types), and Hail (Abomasnow, Glaceon, Stallrein, Froslass) abusers are shit tier now.
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Weather mechanics changed this gen, from infinite weather to automatic 5 turns of weather (8 turns with the respective held item Rock). Rain and Sand cores are very much still useable.
 
d2m said:
So just nobody ever ran Encore, Haze, Clear Smog, Unaware Clefable, fast Taunt, Perish Song Celebi, or Roar/Whirlwind? Guess Prankster really did break BP. Thanks for the answers guys!

One more question: Have weather teams been banned or are they just bad? Most of the great Rain (Kingdra, Manaphy, Ludicolo, Politoed), Sun (Tangrowth, Jumpluff, Venusaur, Fire types), and Hail (Abomasnow, Glaceon, Stallrein, Froslass) abusers are shit tier now.
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The weather nerf turned them into shitmons again, and about a BP,you would be forced to use those things, way overcentralizing.
 
d2m said:
From someone who hasn't been in the loop for years and is coming back: Why is so much random shit banned in OU now? Baton Pass teams are banned, Greninja is banned, Shaymin-S is banned, Landorus is banned, Aegislash is banned, a bunch of mega-evolutions are banned...I mean I'm assuming some thought was put into this, but we never had this much shit banned back in the day.

I found a thread for the rationale behind the recycle/berry thing being banned but none of the others. I've only had limited Wi-Fi play with most of these guys and they didn't seem like a problem, but I see how the meta can be completely different here.
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The thing with Recycle+Leppa Berry is an outdated ban, but it was implemented in an attempt to eliminate the ability to create endless battles (yeah, that was a thing). However, people kept finding ways around it so the current system just bans Heal Pulse so that things can actually die to Struggle.
Rocxidi said:
Edit: Wait isn't rain still godly thanks to megapert? I've heard alot of people just ignore rain when they teambuild cause it's too good. Then again this was quite some time ago and the meta has changed a bit.
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Rain suffers from being extremely matchup dependent, and Mega Swampert is far from godly (the only "worse" viable Swift Swimmer is Ludicolo, which is only borderline viable at best) due to it a: taking up a mega slot that rain would benefit more from another mega filling (e.g. Scizor, Pinsir, Heracross) and b: not getting Swift Swim on the turn it megas.
 
How come 3-4 months ago defensive starmie was considered really good and the best spinner in the tier and now its considered shit? what made it bad? or was it never really good and recently people realized it was overhyped recently?
 
Me and ur mom said:
How come 3-4 months ago defensive starmie was considered really good and the best spinner in the tier and now its considered shit? what made it bad? or was it never really good and recently people realized it was overhyped recently?
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It's not considered shit right now and it was never considered really good in the first place. To answer your question: the latter.
 
Wasn't it also during a point in time when MScizor was really, really good (or just really commonly used)? I vaguely remember it being hyped almost as much as Garchomp was a few weeks ago (only less so because it's a Mega). Pretty sure that helped it along, especially if Bisharp use was also pretty high - Defensive Starmie can copy their types on the switch and then wall + scald/spin, that was kind of a cool niche.

I should really keep track of "trending" Pokemon, it's a fun way to look back on things. AFAIK, the last few months have gone something like Tornadus-T > Weavile > Hoopa-U > Sableye, with Garchomp falling somewhere along the line, possibly just starting to fizzle out now? And there was the MDiancie/MSableye/MMetagross matchup triangle just before MMeta's suspect test.
 
Hey, why don't people use sun when it does have a reasonably good setter in y-zard? sure, not a ton of mons have chlorophyll, and there is that nasty rocks weakness, but I feel like that could be worked around. for that matter, what does y-zard excel at anyways?
 
ksr15 said:
Hey, why don't people use sun when it does have a reasonably good setter in y-zard? sure, not a ton of mons have chlorophyll, and there is that nasty rocks weakness, but I feel like that could be worked around. for that matter, what does y-zard excel at anyways?
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Uh it has to do with team composition and the introduction of stuff like Talonflame that impede Sun builds more than say, rain or sand, who can normally threaten it much more easily. It's difficult to get a good sun team going over another archetype due to overlapping weaknesses, potential redundancies, lack of good setters outside of Char-Y, etc.

what does y-zard excel at anyways?
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Wall-breaking? Not sure if this is what you're asking.
 
ksr15 said:
Hey, why don't people use sun when it does have a reasonably good setter in y-zard? sure, not a ton of mons have chlorophyll, and there is that nasty rocks weakness, but I feel like that could be worked around. for that matter, what does y-zard excel at anyways?
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YZard doesn't work as a Sun setter because it can provide 3 turns of Sun to the rest of the team at best, which is far from enough. Ninetales and Pranksters each have their flaws in setting up weather, with Ninetales being vry weak, and Pranksters usually needing to take a hit after setting up, limiting their sustainability.
On top of that, Chlorophyll users tend to be weak to Talonflame, with Shiftry being pretty much the only one that is capable of beating Talonflame outright. Fire type wallbreakers typically come with a SR weakness bar Infernape who just stacks up another weakness vs Talonflame.
 
escarlata said:
YZard doesn't work as a Sun setter because it can provide 3 turns of Sun to the rest of the team at best, which is far from enough. Ninetales and Pranksters each have their flaws in setting up weather, with Ninetales being vry weak, and Pranksters usually needing to take a hit after setting up, limiting their sustainability.
On top of that, Chlorophyll users tend to be weak to Talonflame, with Shiftry being pretty much the only one that is capable of beating Talonflame outright. Fire type wallbreakers typically come with a SR weakness bar Infernape who just stacks up another weakness vs Talonflame.
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Offensive Rock Types like Tyranitar are appreciated on sun teams for this very reason

However, "sun teams" are usually cores of 2,3, maybe 4 pokemon that work well with sun support together, but ninetales is extremely niche and should only be used on sun teams if you desperately need the role compression that mega diancie provides for sun teams. (Venu, Zardy, Ttar, maybe Excadrill), (Ninetales, Mega Diancie, Venu)
 
ksr15 said:
Hey, why don't people use sun when it does have a reasonably good setter in y-zard? sure, not a ton of mons have chlorophyll, and there is that nasty rocks weakness, but I feel like that could be worked around. for that matter, what does y-zard excel at anyways?
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Unlike with other particularly viable weathers (rain/sand), Char Y can't hold Heat Rock (and if you bring up Ninetales I'm going to ask you to leave now :P). In addition, its SR weakness means it can't come in willy-nilly to set the weather back up again, unlike with Politoed/Ttar/Hippo which can come in multiple times without too much of a problem. Setting the weather for sun, therefore, is harder than it is for sand and rain.

All of the 'mons with Chlorophyll are grass-type (unless I'm forgetting something), meaning they can't take advantage of the boosts to fire-type attacks granted by sun as well. Sure, you might have HP Fire, but that can't compare to something like Kingdra's STAB Rain-boosted Hydro Pump. The Chlorophyll abusers may actually suffer from the sun sometimes due to the fire weakness. In other words, it's harder to abuse sun than it is for rain or sand.

Charizard-Y really excels at beating down balance builds. One notable and recent game in which Char-Y was really featured was in Game 1 of the OLT playoffs match between njnp and M Dragon. See the commentary here as M Dragon's balance really struggles against the sheer power of njnp's Char Y.
 
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