ORAS Ubers Groudon and the Geng: Balanced Ubers (Peaked #10)

[DDDon]

Hello everyone and welcome to my first successful Ubers team! I've been lurking on Smogon and Showdown! for about a year now and first started playing Ubers about six months ago. I pretty much fell in love with it right away thanks to its diverse threats, offensive meta and the fact that nothing could rise to the tier above it by usage, so no meta-defining pokemon would just disappear. Anyway, I recently got into teambuilding, and after a few unsuccessful attempts at everything from stall to sand to Toxic Spikes HO, I feel like I've finally made a team that's good enough to showcase here. With that out of the way, let's get to the team!

Teambuilding Process

I started with a core of Primal Groudon and Mega Gengar because Gengar can trap and kill a lot of Groudon's checks and counters, allowing it to sweep without running into problems.

At this point, I thought this would end up being an offensive team, not a balanced one. So I added E-Killer Arceus, which can finish a sweep for Pdon if it falls short of a KO, as well as acting as a good revenge killer, an alternate win condition that appreciates the holes that Gengar pokes in the other team, and a great mon on offense in general.

Now my team had a huge weakness to bulky ghosts, especially Giratina-O. I considered using offensive Yveltal to check them and use U-turn to make it easier for Gengar to trap fairies etc., but at this point, my team had no hazard control, and I didn't want a SR-weak mon on a team with no hazard control, so I chose Darkrai instead. I could've just added hazard support at that point, but I saw this as an opportunity to add my favorite mon of all time...

Klefki. A bit of a momentum killer at times by this team's offensive standards, but I figured it was all right if I just sent it out early-game, paralyzed my opponent if possible, set some spikes, and keep the pressure up with my other mons to avoid defog. It was at this point when my team started moving away from hyper offense and more towards balance.

At this point I realized two things: 1, I had no clear answer to Primal Groudon, which is really not a good mon for your team to be weak to. And 2, Ho-oh completely ripped my team apart, except for Primal Groudon, which checks it once, then dies if they predict correctly. To help with this, I traded E-Killer for Rockceus and added Latios as an offensive check to Pdon and Primal Kyogre, both of which my team was very weak to after adding Rockceus.

My team was somewhat weak to Megamence, since both of my checks were weak to Earthquake, and Rockceus took at least 50% from an unboosted max attack Earthquake, and if Megamence had refresh, it could just shrug off Klefki's TWaves and KO back with Earthquake. To help with this, I finally added defog to my team on Arceus-Rock and replaced Latios with Lugia, which still checked Pdon and Kyogre, but now checked Megamence too.

Unfortunately, it turns out that Rockceus is kind of a shitty defogger because most Stealth Rock setters pressure it too much for it to defog freely, and then they just set up their rocks again. Uninvested Pdon has a chance to OHKO with Precipice Blades after Stealth Rock. Deoxys-Attack 2HKOs with Psycho Boost and Superpower. Deoxys-Speed can just taunt it. Uninvested Dialga is guarenteed to 2HKO with Flash Cannon after Stealth Rock... you get the idea. Anyway, I decided that Rockceus wasn't good enough for a pokemon that needs to keep multiscale intact to check a lot of threats, including Megamence, which was the whole reason I chose it over Latios. So I switched to Arceus-Water, which is a much more reliable defogger and still checks Ho-oh.

The only reason I chose Darkrai over Yveltal in the first place was because I had no hazard control at the time. But now I have hazard control, so goodbye Darkrai, hello Yveltal. Fun fact: Yveltal worked so much better on this team that I used a new alt for this version of the team and ended up beating my old alt's peak before my first loss with Yveltal.

In-Depth Analyses

Groudon-Primal @ Red Orb
Ability: Desolate Land
EVs: 128 HP / 252 Atk / 128 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Rock Polish
- Precipice Blades
- Stone Edge
- Stealth Rock

I decided to use the Rock Polish set because that's what the sample core used because it works fairly well as a lead: Set rocks as fast as possible, and if they don't have a good defensive check, set up Rock Polish and go kill some stuff. Against offense, I usually get at least one kill like this before they finally force me out. It also makes a solid win condition if I decide to bring it back late game. It also works fairly well at anti-leading opposing Pdons because it has more speed invested than most, and it can OHKO offensive variants 100% of the time, and outspeed and 2HKO defensive variants, although this leaves it at 10-20% health. I chose 128 speed because that's what the sample core used because that's enough to outspeed 90% of opposing Pdons, and it outspeeds scarf Xerneas and Genesect after a Rock Polish, making it harder to revenge kill. My team isn't especially weak to them, I just wanted there to be some rhyme and reason to the speed EV number.

Gengar-Mega @ Gengarite
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shadow Ball
- Destiny Bond
- Sludge Wave
- Focus Blast

Gengar's role is to trap and kill annoying mons like Lugia and the Latis so that PDon can wallbreak or sweep more easily. Shadow Ball, obviously, is essential for that, so that's what I started with. Destiny Bond is great as a last-ditch effort to get rid of things that threaten your team. Sludge Wave is my main STAB move and to hit Xerneas after Yveltal U-Turns on the switch. Finally, Focus Blast is a decision that I've always felt kind of conflicted about because it means I can't run Taunt, which makes Destiny Bond work much less reliably, or Protect, which means it can't reliably threaten mons like Darkrai and the Latis unless it's already mega evolved. Eventually I decided to keep Focus Blast mostly because Ferrothorn and Stone Edge E-Killer really annoy the rest of my team. The EVs and nature need no explanation.

Arceus-Water @ Splash Plate
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 252 HP / 240 Def / 16 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Recover
- Toxic
- Defog
- Judgment

I chose this EV spread because my team isn't particularly weak to any of the things that Arceus-Water tends to speed creep, except for Kyurem-W, which isn't especially common. Also, I want to be able to defog reliably throughout the match because a lot of the time, instead of sweeping in the traditional sense, I just use Lugia to phase my opponents through Klefki's spikes until they die, so I have to keep defogging their rocks until I wear down their rocker enough to kill it. Anyway, that's why I decided to just put enough speed on it to creep neutral-natured base 90s and put the rest into defense. I chose Judgement over Ice Beam since I already have a physically defensive Ice Beam user in Lugia, and I want to maintain at least some offensive pressure on pokemon that aren't weak to ice.

Yveltal @ Dread Plate
Ability: Dark Aura
EVs: 72 Atk / 252 SpA / 184 Spe
Rash Nature
- Dark Pulse
- Oblivion Wing
- Sucker Punch
- U-turn

I'll be honest, I have zero experience with offensive Yveltal, so I probably shouldn't be making my own EV spreads for it. But I did anyway. It's pretty simple: Speed creep enough to outspeed neutral-natured base 90s, specifically Pdon, since taking a Stone Edge can be annoying even if you beat it. Dark Pulse and Oblivion Wing are for STAB, and Oblivion Wing provides a form of small recovery. I chose Sucker Punch mostly because my team otherwise has no priority and only one mon fast enough to be a revenge killer. Finally, U-Turn is to easily bring in Gengar on unsuspecting fairies to trap and kill them.

Klefki @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Spikes
- Thunder Wave
- Toxic
- Play Rough

Klefki is the best pokemon in existence. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise. Not only does it blanket check half the tier, but it can set spikes, cripple switch-ins with Twave or Toxic, and, if necessary, use prankster Twave against offensive threats right before they kill it, making them easy to revenge kill and basically working like a slightly worse destiny bond. On my team specifically, its main role is to act as a reliable switch-in to Yveltal, Kyurem-W, the Latis, Lugia, and more. At that point, you pretty much get a free Twave unless they double switch or have a ground type. Fortunately, that's when Lugia comes into play.

Lugia @ Leftovers
Ability: Multiscale
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Toxic
- Ice Beam
- Roost
- Whirlwind

Lugia works extremely well with Klefki, switching into ground types that come in to absorb a Thunder Wave and slowly wearing them down over the course of the match. It also appreciates the spikes that Klefki sets because it can just spam whirlwind once the opponents' hazard control and checks to Lugia are gone. As I mentioned earlier, this along with toxic stalling is often what I do late game to win matches. Klefki and sometimes Gengar can also switch into Toxic for Lugia, and Groudon can switch into Twave and Will-O-Wisp, making it easy to avoid status. I chose a full physically defensive spread to better check Mega Salamence, E-Killer, and Primal Groudon.


Threatlist

Offensive Yveltal completely shits on my team if I lose Klefki, unless it has Heat Wave, in which case it shits on my team right away. If it doesn't have taunt, I can sack something to get Gengar in, then sack Gengar and take it down with Destiny Bond. Otherwise, I have to use sack Klefki to paralyze it and hope that they decide to use Heat Wave instead of switching into a ground type.

E-Killler can be a nuisance if it has Stone Edge or Refresh because it can break through Lugia after a Swords Dance or make it really hard to wear it down with Toxic. Occasionally I can bluff defensive Yveltal, but that's very situational and if my opponent doesn't have rocks up, I can just tank a +2 stone edge and phase it out, but that means I can't wear it down reliably if I haven't set up spikes. If need be, Gengar can revenge kill it if it's already mega evolved.

Fortunately, it's not as common as it once was, but if I happen to run into a Gothitelle, it can trap and remove Klefki and Arceus, which makes it a lot harder to keep pressure off Lugia. Gengar beats it 1v1, but loses if Gothitelle has a Calm Mind set up or if Gengar has any significant damage done to it. Fortunately, Yveltal, Lugia, and Pdon prevent it from pulling off a complete Calm Mind sweep, but I have to play very carefully and sometimes riskily around it to avoid losing two of the mons that hold my team together.

Zekrom can switch in to Lugia or Waterceus risk-free and put a huge dent in whatever switches in. It's also immune to Klefki's Thunder Waves, which is how I deal with most annoying offensive threats. Groudon can absorb Bolt Strike and Volt Switch, but is 2HKOed by Outrage after Stealth Rock. Likewise, Klefki can absorb Outrage, Dragon Claw, and Draco Meteor, but takes about 95% from Bolt Strike. Usually how I handle it is go to Pdon, then switch to Klefki if they use a Dragon-type move. If they're scarfed, they'll usually be switching in and out a lot, so I try to set as many spikes as I can on their side and wear them down eventually. The less common Life Orb set is harder to handle because I can't force it out after scouting its move, and it does noticeably more damage. However, Gengar can trap and revenge kill it once it's down to about 60% health.

So there it is! Thanks for reading and I would appreciate any comments on how to improve the team!

​

Importable (With Changes)

Groudon-Primal @ Red Orb
Ability: Desolate Land
EVs: 252 HP / 56 Def / 200 SpD
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Precipice Blades
- Rock Slide
- Thunder Wave

Gengar-Mega @ Gengarite
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hex
- Will-O-Wisp
- Protect
- Focus Blast

Arceus-Water @ Splash Plate
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 252 HP / 240 Def / 16 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Recover
- Toxic
- Defog
- Judgment

Yveltal @ Life Orb
Ability: Dark Aura
EVs: 72 Atk / 252 SpA / 184 Spe
Rash Nature
- Dark Pulse
- Oblivion Wing
- Knock Off
- U-turn

Klefki @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Spikes
- Thunder Wave
- Toxic
- Play Rough

Lugia @ Leftovers
Ability: Multiscale
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Toxic
- Ice Beam
- Roost
- Whirlwind

Proof of Peak

 

[Minority]

Hello Mega Greenusaur, your team is overall solid and your RMT has a nice clean formatting. With that said, there are still new places to go with this team. From your teambuilding section it seems as though you started off as an offensive team starting with Mega Gengar and then sorta imposed some structure changes that led this team to defaulting to a pretty standard Arceus-Water balance. I guess that's alright, but now you're in the awkward position of wanting a balance squad that utilizes Ho-Oh rather than Yveltal, and then that kinda pushes you even more to changing Mega Gengar to Mega Sableye, dropping the Pokemon you were building around to begin with.

As of now you've got a solid enough trap turn balance squad that doesn't really have a strong method of breaking stall outside of Mega Gengar (this job is pretty insufficient for Mega Gengar to do all on its own). Meanwhile it's not that hard for a good offensive team to overload you; you already recognized the potential EKiller and (albeit less relevant) Zekrom problems. There are also some other minor issues such as Darkrai (you just fodder Yveltal to sleep I guess and bring in Klefki but meh). This team also wants better counterplay against entry hazards and a better lead matchup against common hyper offenses.

I feel if you're going to be using a trap turn balance you should be running Knock Off Yveltal along with like Hex Mega Gengar. This provides a slightly more solid check to EKiller and fixes some problems against stall. If you're worried about being overloaded between Primal Groudon and Klefki (think Xern, Yveltal, Zek) then you should just run a more bulky P Don EV spread and pickup a utility move in the last slot over Rock Polish. Considering the general lack of wall breakers this team has I think a fast SD set would also make a better option than running Rock Polish.

Summary:
- Run Knock Off over Sucker Punch on Yveltal
- Run Hex, Will-O-Wisp, and Protect over Shadow Ball, Destiny Bond, and Sludge Wave on Mega Gengar
- Consider either a bulkier P Don set with something over Rock Polish or going max Speed and running Swords Dance

In some ways this was a challenging team to rate due to what I explained in the first paragraph, but I think those changes get this about as optimized as possible without just dropping Yveltal for Ho-Oh and then having to incur the subsequent altercations. You also have the option of stripping this down and trying to build an offensive team like you did initially. Good luck.

 

[DDDon]

Hello Mega Greenusaur, your team is overall solid and your RMT has a nice clean formatting. With that said, there are still new places to go with this team. From your teambuilding section it seems as though you started off as an offensive team starting with Mega Gengar and then sorta imposed some structure changes that led this team to defaulting to a pretty standard Arceus-Water balance. I guess that's alright, but now you're in the awkward position of wanting a balance squad that utilizes Ho-Oh rather than Yveltal, and then that kinda pushes you even more to changing Mega Gengar to Mega Sableye, dropping the Pokemon you were building around to begin with.

As of now you've got a solid enough trap turn balance squad that doesn't really have a strong method of breaking stall outside of Mega Gengar (this job is pretty insufficient for Mega Gengar to do all on its own). Meanwhile it's not that hard for a good offensive team to overload you; you already recognized the potential EKiller and (albeit less relevant) Zekrom problems. There are also some other minor issues such as Darkrai (you just fodder Yveltal to sleep I guess and bring in Klefki but meh). This team also wants better counterplay against entry hazards and a better lead matchup against common hyper offenses.

I feel if you're going to be using a trap turn balance you should be running Knock Off Yveltal along with like Hex Mega Gengar. This provides a slightly more solid check to EKiller and fixes some problems against stall. If you're worried about being overloaded between Primal Groudon and Klefki (think Xern, Yveltal, Zek) then you should just run a more bulky P Don EV spread and pickup a utility move in the last slot over Rock Polish. Considering the general lack of wall breakers this team has I think a fast SD set would also make a better option than running Rock Polish.

Summary:
- Run Knock Off over Sucker Punch on Yveltal
- Run Hex, Will-O-Wisp, and Protect over Shadow Ball, Destiny Bond, and Sludge Wave on Mega Gengar
- Consider either a bulkier P Don set with something over Rock Polish or going max Speed and running Swords Dance

In some ways this was a challenging team to rate due to what I explained in the first paragraph, but I think those changes get this about as optimized as possible without just dropping Yveltal for Ho-Oh and then having to incur the subsequent altercations. You also have the option of stripping this down and trying to build an offensive team like you did initially. Good luck.

Hello and thanks for the rate!

I will definitely miss having Sludge Wave on Gengar, but I guess my team doesn't really need it to handle fairies. I never really thought about Knock Off on Yveltal; usually I try to have at least one user of Knock Off on each of my teams, and I didn't realize Yveltal learned it. I will try out these changes, probably with Swords Dance Primal Groudon in the spirit of the offensive start this team had, and plus I feel like I already have enough utility between Klefki, Lugia, and Arceus-Water. Thanks again for the advice!

 

[Aquasition]

Hello there! So, as Minority Suspect said, this is a very solid looking team, so it's not easy to find any flaws. First thing's first, Yeah, E-killer is a major threat if it uses Stone Edge or Refresh, as despite having a Lugia, E-killer can and will go through your team if Lugia shows up.

Next thing is your lack of wallbreaking power, as you only have Y-Bacon, to a degree and Mega Gengar to break walls, but those two alone won't cut it, especially since quite a few stall teams do like to take STag in mind. A possible solution to this is to run Life Orb Yveltal, as it gives more power than Dredd Plate for ALL of your moves, while the HP damage you take can be mitigated by O-wing's sustain. Another thing I could recommend is to use Taunt over Sludge Wave for Mega Gengar, as this allows M-gar to shut down some pokemon it would trap, like other support arceuses, while since you have Klefki and PDonner, you don't need to worry too much about Geoxern.

I see Mega Sableye being a thorn in the side, as it really hurts your defensive backbone, as there's nothing Lugia or can do to it, Klefki just gets burned out, and Waterceus Judgement fails to 2HKO the standard Utility set, so the end result is having your defensive backbone crippled. As well, it can jsut switch out of M-Gar, which is another reason for LO Y-bacon, turning MSab into a free heal, basically. However, it's up to you as to whether you need Life Orb or not.

Summary:
1. Taunt over Sludge Wave on Mega Gengar
2. Life Orb on Yveltal

But again, it's up to you as to whether you need Life Orb or not, as well as to whether use Minority's Mega Gar or mine. I'd say that they're both good options, at least. But again, your team is solid, so it's not easy to find any holes.

 

[DDDon]

Hello there! So, as Minority Suspect said, this is a very solid looking team, so it's not easy to find any flaws. First thing's first, Yeah, E-killer is a major threat if it uses Stone Edge or Refresh, as despite having a Lugia, E-killer can and will go through your team if Lugia shows up.

Next thing is your lack of wallbreaking power, as you only have Y-Bacon, to a degree and Mega Gengar to break walls, but those two alone won't cut it, especially since quite a few stall teams do like to take STag in mind. A possible solution to this is to run Life Orb Yveltal, as it gives more power than Dredd Plate for ALL of your moves, while the HP damage you take can be mitigated by O-wing's sustain. Another thing I could recommend is to use Taunt over Sludge Wave for Mega Gengar, as this allows M-gar to shut down some pokemon it would trap, like other support arceuses, while since you have Klefki and PDonner, you don't need to worry too much about Geoxern.

I see Mega Sableye being a thorn in the side, as it really hurts your defensive backbone, as there's nothing Lugia or can do to it, Klefki just gets burned out, and Waterceus Judgement fails to 2HKO the standard Utility set, so the end result is having your defensive backbone crippled. As well, it can jsut switch out of M-Gar, which is another reason for LO Y-bacon, turning MSab into a free heal, basically. However, it's up to you as to whether you need Life Orb or not.

Summary:
1. Taunt over Sludge Wave on Mega Gengar
2. Life Orb on Yveltal

But again, it's up to you as to whether you need Life Orb or not, as well as to whether use Minority's Mega Gar or mine. I'd say that they're both good options, at least. But again, your team is solid, so it's not easy to find any holes.

Hello and thanks for the rate!

Originally I considered Life Orb on Yveltal, but decided against it. Now that you've suggested it, I actually tried it, and it turns out that it actually works a lot better in practice from what I've seen so far, although it can't switch in on as many things. So thank you very much for that!

I'll admit I'm not as much as a fan of the idea of Taunt on Gengar, since the Hex/Will-O set is almost as good against stall, and it lets me do better against E-Killer, Ferrothorn and Mega Kanga: Even if I miss with Focus Blast, I've crippled them for the rest of the match (unless it's Refreshceus in which case RIP). Also, it takes advantage of the fact that I have status on most of my team.

Speaking of status on most of my team, a quick update: Not using Swords Dance Pdon anymore since most of the time I find it better to switch out if they have an obvious switch-in to Groudon instead of using Swords Dance. Instead, I'm using Minority Suspect's other suggestion: a bulky set with a utility move, specifically Twave. I like that better: It can check stuff and set rocks much more reliably throughout the match, and it's *almost* like having Rock Polish again. Also, like I said earlier, it's good at powering up Mega Gengar's Hex, and lets it revenge kill some things it normally wouldn't be able to.