ORAS Ubers Viability Ranking Thread (Final ORAS Update - Post #1164)

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I've only used M-lop on a T spikes HO team as this seems like the only archtype it fits is offense and honestly it's not that great, I feel its not viable at all in the current metagame, With M-kang outclassing it for Fake out and Skymin outclassing it for healing wish especially on offense builds. it honestly lacks the moveslots to work effectively in ORAS aswell. if you run a coverage move such as ice punch you lose a STAB, this forces it to be walled by too many common pokemon.
Fake out / healing wish / HJK / filler is the only combo to consider using this mon, though it as outclassed by the other 2 mons mentioned for its niches.

aswell as the ability to hit M-sab, though offensive builds normally have something to deal with M-sab anyways, the faster speed doesnt really justify using it either, its too weak to priority, for mega pokemon its very frail.
its a waste of a mega slot, there are much better options for mega pokemon to use on offensive builds such as M-mence Diancie/M-kang and hell even M-aero could be taking this spot as a mega on toxic spikes builds

Im gonna agree with Peli, this mon should not really be ranked and instead sway people away from considering it on a serious team. Maybe D ranked at best, I don't see it being C rank merit at all.

Not sure how i feel about rising dialga, I will go explore with the LO set
 
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Krauersaut said:
It's true that it destroys Sableye, but there are many other Pokemon capable of doing that that AREN'T otherwise useless, and don't take up such massive opportunity cost in that it uses your Mega-slot. To beat Darkrai and Gengar, you're running Jolly, which hits like a wet paper towel - I simply can't imagine a single team in which it will actually have a significant role in a victory.

As for the Xern calc, I meant that if Xern were to come in on Lopunny, it wouldn't be in range of priority, and since Lopunny-Mega erases the chance of having any viable priority other than Klefki, Xern essentially gets free rein. For the sake of argument, I'm fairly certain, that Jolly Lopunny doesn't even 2HKO 200 Def Xern with Return after Fake Out. Maybe after Stealth Rocks? I'm too lazy to go calc, but I still don't see a viable niche for Lopunny on any team in ORAS Ubers.
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The purpose of my post was mostly to point out that Mega Lopunny has more advantages over Kangaskhan than just dealing with special Ghostceus. I don't really mind if it gets axed. Though as an aside, I find the biggest concern when using Mega Lopunny is not Xerneas but rather Salamence. Mega Lopunny can't do anything to prevent Salamence from DDing unless you give up HWish for Ice Punch or HWish to your Mence check. It's very difficult to fit a good Salamence check (read: a Flying resist) on TSpikes HO without relying on Def Xerneas + Dragon Tail Primal Groudon. Theoretically it could be good on a bulkier TSpikes team where you could afford to use better Salamence checks, but most bulky TSpikers suck in Ubers except for Tentacruel somewhat, and Gengar tends to be more effective on these types of teams anyway.

Krauersaut said:
As for Dialga - I must say, its an exceedingly average Salamence check. If it's your primary switch in, one Earthquake and switch out and you've lost the game. As I touched on before, Dialga decimates balance and stall almost single-handedly when backed by the power of Life Orb, and against Hyper Offense, at least it can be your sleep fodder. Just don't stack on HO-prone mons ;x

I still feel like Dialga should definitely rise. People think its main niche is checking Salamence, but I disagree with that entirely, since it barely fulfills that role. It should be an offensive Stealth Rock setter, secondary switch in to Kyogre, and a fantastic switch in to Waterceus, Lugia, Klefki and Darkrai (especially if your set isn't revealed, you can play mindgames ;o). I can't understate how much I love Dialga in a meta overriden by bulky offense with no real switch ins for it.
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Let me put it a different way. Without Shuca Berry Dialga goes from having some utility vs HO to being pretty much useless against HO. Without this extra utility, Dialga does not become substantially better than Palkia or Kyurem-W at crushing defensive teams, except for the Toxic immunity + SR resistance giving it more longevity. This is admittedly very nice but I'm not sure that merits Dialga rising to the A ranks when its SR set isn't used all that often anyway and its like minded Dragon buddies are chilling in C. Why is this particularly notable?

I also don't know where you thought Dialga was a Darkrai switch-in because it most definitely is not if you're running an offensive spread:

252 SpA Life Orb Darkrai Dark Pulse vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Dialga: 175-208 (51.1 - 60.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Bluffing Scarf probably won't work too well since that set is exceedingly rare in ORAS...

e: What coverage are you using on Dialga if you have a moveslot for Stealth Rock? You need Draco Meteor and Thunder so that leaves one slot for Fire Blast, Flash Cannon, or Brick Break (or Iron Tail if you have cajones), and you need something to kill Blissey so you can actually threaten stall...
 
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Fireburn said:
The purpose of my post was mostly to point out that Mega Lopunny has more advantages over Kangaskhan than just dealing with special Ghostceus. I don't really mind if it gets axed. Though as an aside, I find the biggest concern when using Mega Lopunny is not Xerneas but rather Salamence. Mega Lopunny can't do anything to prevent Salamence from DDing unless you give up HWish for Ice Punch or HWish to your Mence check. It's very difficult to fit a good Salamence check (read: a Flying resist) on TSpikes HO without relying on Def Xerneas + Dragon Tail Primal Groudon. Theoretically it could be good on a bulkier TSpikes team where you could afford to use better Salamence checks, but most bulky TSpikers suck in Ubers except for Tentacruel somewhat, and Gengar tends to be more effective on these types of teams anyway.



Let me put it a different way. Without Shuca Berry Dialga goes from having some utility vs HO to being pretty much useless against HO. Without this extra utility, Dialga does not become substantially better than Palkia or Kyurem-W at crushing defensive teams, except for the Toxic immunity + SR resistance giving it more longevity. This is admittedly very nice but I'm not sure that merits Dialga rising to the A ranks when its SR set isn't used all that often anyway and its like minded Dragon buddies are chilling in C. Why is this particularly notable?

I also don't know where you thought Dialga was a Darkrai switch-in because it most definitely is not if you're running an offensive spread:

252 SpA Life Orb Darkrai Dark Pulse vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Dialga: 175-208 (51.1 - 60.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Bluffing Scarf probably won't work too well since that set is exceedingly rare in ORAS...
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I wasn't trying to suggest Dialga was a Darkrai switch in as in it beats it 1v1, I simply meant it's good sleep fodder. When you consider how easy it is to get around it as a Salamence check, you really don't lose much utility defensively, whereas Life Orb gives you some ridiculously hard-hitting moves. The biggest boon to offensive Dialga, IMO, is that it single handedly completely shuts down standard Waterceus balance teams. Also:

[...] I'm not sure that merits Dialga rising to the A ranks when its SR set isn't used all that often anyway and its like minded Dragon buddies are chilling in C.
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I'm sorry, but that's simply untrue - if you're not running Stealth Rocks on Dialga, you need to check your prescriptions. Even the ladder gets that:

5:51 PM<+krau> !usage1337 dialga moves ubers
5:51 PM<+TIBot> Draco Meteor 81.199% | Stealth Rock 80.494% | Flash Cannon 72.083% |[...] (silly garbage ladder strats)

I only care so much because Dialga is sorely underestimated in a metagame dominated by Waterceus/Ho-Oh balance. It really is one of the best anti-meta mons right now.

As for Lopunny, I'm really quite indifferent on it - so long as people realize that the majority of its cons vastly outweigh its few-and-far-between pros, I don't particularly care where it ends up.
 
i've always found such a peculiar overlap in the megas of kangaskhan / mewtwo / lopunny on those edgy offensive teams. the tacit justification of them, besides their evident offensive prowess, is the capability to act as a secondary check to darkrai in varying effectiveness (alongside xerneas typically). the teams utilizing these pokemon on their offensive core lack the standard ho's backup darkrai check, e-killer, and are prone to using ghosteus. as such, using a non-mence mega (as there are very few non-mega darkrai checks that work on offense) is certainly reasonable and it gives each of these pokemon a decent niche. heuristically speaking, however, kangaskhan and mewtwo are the undoubtedly the only two worth running on any competitive team. lopunny provides a way to punish mega-sableye and is faster than arceus-ghost, but it is vastly inferior to kangaskhan otherwise. healing wish is a massively overrated move and hardly will ever do anything. the added power, coverage, and bulk kangaskhan provides is just better. the choice between kangaskhan / mewtwo is usually team dependent and kinda depends on the team's offensive core you settle on. fwiw, kangaskhan can /maybe/ be used on a bulkier team too, but i've never seen it done successfully. i prefer using mewtwo and find it to be the most consistent choice of the three. many of the best teams are weak to mewtwo, and it has a solid matchup vs most playstyles.

regardless, kanga and mewtwo are both niche pokemon and should be treated as such in the rankings. lopunny is just trash though.

wow i posted seriously.
 
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Alright so i've dropped the ball into the ocean due to UPL and stuff, mb. Just dropping a quick update to account for recent posts and ensure the thread is not neglected any longer. Hopefully once UPL is over and done, the mods and I can focus on getting the ideal system together. Although i'm not even sure if it needs changed now that the useless criterias have been removed...

Update List:

Mega Lopunny: C >>> Removed
Dialga: Now sits above Tyranitar in B+
Due to the conflicted opinions I settled for just moving it up a little rather than a whole rank.

And that's about it for right now. If a new baseline is decided after UPL I will update here as soon as its done. This is also likely to be the ideal time to discuss if UPL has brought any mons into the spotlight and deserving of a raise.
 
Is nobody posting here? I'll nom anyway ;). A Mon who position's I disagree with is Excadrill. Don't get me wrong, it's useable, and most teams are unprepared for it. It has fairly good typing but so do a bunch of other mons. The big problem though is that the only niche I can see it having is on sandstorm teams. This means it needs a sandstorm setter (tyranitar?) to set it up, a switch in when it won't get crippled by an attack, both primal forms, rayquaza and even golduck removed from play hence they stop sandstorm and only them can it consider doing its job as a pretty fast attacker who misses out on many Kos.

Even as a lead, it isn't amazing. I've used the lead set before, but stopped thinking it wasn't viable. Why use it over deoxys? It can set up SR against mega sable and mega diancie, true. But deoxys can just use skill swap then set up sr AND spikes. Excadrill can rapid spin but deoxys gets taunt and mirror coat. Not only that, but if you sacrifice one of those moves you can gain some powerful attacking moves to destroy other mons instead. So I think excadrill should drop, at least below Yveltal.
 
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SuperSixFighters said:
Is nobody posting here? I'll nom anyway ;). A Mon who position's I disagree with is Excadrill. Don't get me wrong, it's useable, and most teams are unprepared for it. It has fairly good typing but so do a bunch of other mons. The big problem though is that the only niche I can see it having is on sandstorm teams. This means it needs a sandstorm setter (tyranitar?) to set it up, a switch in when it won't get crippled by an attack, both primal forms, rayquaza and even golduck removed from play hence they stop sandstorm and only them can it consider doing its job as a pretty fast attacker who misses out on many Kos. Please drop, or at least put it under yveltal.
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The main reason excadrill is ranked where it is because of it's ability as a hazard lead setter on offense builds, not because of it's sand sweeper set (I dont know why you used this set to justify it dropping, since this isnt it's most common set), Excadrill is one of the few mons capable of setting rocks vs Magic bouncers due to mold breaker which is a very good niche on it's own for offense teams, it also has an edge over deo-s leads thanks to rapid spin clearing away hazards and will almost laways win 1v1, however like dialga it is prone to darkrai

I feel excadrill is fine where it is for now.
 
Cranham said:
The main reason excadrill is ranked where it is because of it's ability as a hazard lead setter on offense builds, not because of it's sand sweeper set (I dont know why you used this set to justify it dropping, since this isnt it's most common set), Excadrill is one of the few mons capable of setting rocks vs Magic bouncers due to mold breaker which is a very good niche on it's own for offense teams, it also has an edge over deo-s leads thanks to rapid spin clearing away hazards and will almost laways win 1v1, however like dialga it is prone to darkrai

I feel excadrill is fine where it is for now.
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Ah that's the reason! I'll update the post as I still think it should drop. However, the smogdex entry didn't even mention SR, saying this: Excadrill's niche in Ubers comes from its access to Rapid Spin and ability to sweep teams utilizing Sand Rush. The sand rush part I covered, and, really, there's deoxys and many defoggers already.
 
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I feel that Palkia is a tad too low. Palkia sits at a comfortable speed level (albeit a level that was much more comfortable some time ago), has good Special Attack, and has great coverage. It has passable defenses, and a decent support movepool as well. It hits as hard as Arceus does on the physical side, meaning it can even surprise any special tanks it might run into.

Palkia represents a very flexible team player, easily able to take down a number of specific weaknesses a given team might have. If your team is very Ho-Oh weak, for example, it can run Power Gem, or even Stone Edge effectively, while simultaneously covering Aegislash, Klefki, and Ferrothorn with Flamethrower/Fire Blast. It learns a coverage move for pretty much everything you can think of, and can deal very reliable damage with Stab Spacial Rends or Hydro Pumps otherwise. It can paralyze speedy threats, or poison walls. There is just so much that Palkia can do for a team, that I find it a bit harsh to be ranked at C. C+ at least, I'd say.
 
P-Groudon invalidates its existence with its pseudo-immunity to one of Palkia's two STABS. P-Kyogre's top fat now for Scarf Palkia to OHKO, not to also mention Scarf anything bar Xern is somewhat irrelevant.
 
Primal Groudon is 2HKOed by Spacial Rend, I wouldn't say PDon has invalidated its existence.

Palkia still has a decent niche as a balance/stall destroyer that can provide a secondary Kyogre switch-in. It benefits a lot from the current trend of Modest Lati + slow Arceus so it gets more mileage out of 328 Speed than one might think. I could see it in low/mid C+. I consider it better than Kyurem-W since it's a better Kyogre switch, isn't as hazards weak, and can actually kill Blissey.

Speaking of C+, I think Clefable and Forretress should get the boot. Clef is basically never worth using over Blissey, who is muck bulkier and can still stop CM Refresh Arceus formes with Snatch. Forry is the easiest of the suicide spikers to anti lead since it can't to anything to stop Sableye or Darkrai, and is lacking in all of speed, bulk, and offensive presence.
 
i don't see anything wrong with that move.
Forretress was trending for like a couple of weeks, but dropped off very fast. Custap Explosion isn't really enough to warrant C+, as that was basically its only niche over even something like Cloyster.
 
Uh why is M2X below Jirachi? It beats all non-pdon physical attackers really easily, and even pdon isn't comfortable switching in to it. Pairing it with Pdon and a good answer to special attackers (ie: klefki, pogre, aegi ext) means you're pretty damn solid defensively for an offensive team.
 
UPL is over and its time to get this show back on the road. We still have seasonals as a "thing to do" during the downtime of UPL. Seems that some discussion is already underway, so I'll leave a link to the UPL replays thread for those who wish to use the matches as arguments for raises or drops. Dropping another small update to keep up so far. Sadly the above post didn't really suggest anything so I can't take anything from it.

Update List:

Forretress: C+ >>> Unranked
Clefable: C+ >>> Unranked

As much as I wish I could add my own noms after experiencing UPL as a manager, the current list is already fine in my eyes. Some small things like Giratina-O and Ghostceus swapping spots stick out to me, but either rank can fit them so its no big deal.

Next update will be either 1 or 2 weeks from now, depending on activity. I don't wanna litter the thread with update posts if there was only one nom that week.
 
Can we please talk about legitimate things? Reshiram for A rank??? WTF? First off, it's outclassed by Primal-Don as a fire type. It's outclassed by the Lati twins (and probably others) as a dragon type. It doesn't really boast anything special like it used to. Primal-Ogre can use it as CM bait or just scare it out. As soon as it drops a draco, Mega-MegaMence; Rayquaza; Xerneas; [insert name of setup sweeper] has a free turn essentially. Reshiram is good for its surprise factor, but is fairly predictable and not hard to beat. It's the same reason Zekrom lost quite a bit of its glory when ORAS came about. Reshiram is at its very best a C rank, and that's being pretty generous.
Palkia... Are you serious? Honestly I'd say it should move down to C- Rank. It can't use a single water move against primal-Don, it will barely ever switch into Primal-Don, especially an offensive variant. Depending on the moveset, Palkia can be straight up walled by Primal-Ogre, a pokemon it's supposed to be able to check. Not to mention Palkia is outclassed by other dragon types which are virtually better in every way generally to say the least. By the way, remember how viability is also determined by general scenarios a specific mon will tend to create? Well if one mon is strong in its own right but carries a risk of being easy setup fodder for dangerous sweepers, then its validity drops... Palkia is C rank because Xerneas, CM Primal-Ogre, E-killer Arceus, Darkrai, various CM Arceus, and even Double Dance Primal-Don can use it to setup. So, there are at least 3 (common) very dangerous sweepers in that list which can use Palkia as fodder. Palkia also has virtually no way of getting past dedicated special walls in the tier, such as Lugia, some Support Arceus forms, and Blissey. Palkia just isn't very good right now. It might have a decent matchup against a few things, but a good player has a brain and can play the game too. Palkia just comes up short more often than not.
Mega Lopunny... Uhm... No. D/C- rank. It's quite speedy and hits ghost types but it lacks quite a bit of power in regards to the general bulkiness of everything in the Ubers tier ever. It hits Mega-Sableye. Good for it. It can beat Mence and Ray with Ice Punch. Good for it. I has HJK to hit... Dialga, E-killer Arceus, and whatever else it's super effective against AND it outspeeds AND OR it survives a priority hit from. Mega Lop doesn't have anywhere near enough bulk to hard switch into very many moves, meaning it can only seriously act as a revenge killer in most cases. Like Mega-Kanga, fake out acts as a double edged sword. Mega Lop will essentially get KOed if it misses out on getting a KO. So, yeah... Mega Lop has a nice niche with speed and coverage, but it lacks the proper bulk and raw strength to really pose huge danger to a majority of the tier. It's also Outclassed by E-killer Arceus' and Mega-Kanga, the latter of which has more bulk and gets 2 hits instead of 1 while having a fairly similar moveset.
Landorus-I should be D rank in my opinion. I barely even understand why it was moved into Ubers at all. Landorus-I in OU was great, but I honestly don't feel it should have been banned from OU. As much as I would rather talk about why Landorus-I should go back to OU, I know that this isn't the place. (I don't think it is anyway.) Landorus-I boasts incredible potential, but in Ubers... It will basically never meet that potential.
Here's a list of checks: Primal-Ogre, Yveltal, Bulky Mega Mence (without HP Ice), Arceus Norm, Darkrai, Mewtwo, Deoxys-A, Offensive Mega Diancie, Arceus-Water, Arceus-Ghost, Latios, Latias, Lugia, Mega-Gengar, Shaymin-Sky, Support Dialga, and Mega-Bro... This list also adds more things as Lando-I is worn down. There are also a few walls for it, such as Lugia and Primal-Ogre just to mention two of several. Lando-I is forced to run life orb (or choice specs I guess) if it is supposed to achieve the needed damage for KOs in the first place, which means that a number of scarf users beat it. Lando-I is so heavily outclassed by other ground types in the tier that there basically is no reason to use it on a team as opposed to something else. It has no real usable flying STAB move. It can virtually never act as a counter because of its frailty in Ubers. It has very little chance of ever setting up a CM effectively. It lacks priority and is curb-stomped by common priority users, such as Arceus and Yveltal. Honestly I'd say Lando-I has little to no viability in the tier to be completely honest. Not worthy of anything above D rank.
I'd like to also take a minute and say Deoxys-S up to A+ rank. The speed form is basically better than any other lead for hyper offense in my opinion. With a way to get around the 2 magic bouncers and the added ability of being able to taunt makes it exceptionally good at its job. It may not be the best hazard setter in the tier arguably, but it is really good at providing that support that several other mons just can't. It also outspeeds the whole tier and doesn't need to run hardly any speed to do that. I think Deoxys-S is really good right now as an alternative to Primal-Don if you want to run a team that's more geared towards HO. I think the main thing is the tier is between Balanced Offense and Hyper Offense with some variations and discourse generally speaking. Like, I've never actually seen stall the entire time I've played in Ubers ever since ORAS. Rapid Spin is virtually hard to make use of for quite a few teams because only a certain number of viable mons learn it. Defog support usually comes from Latios (I'll be honest, everyone uses Latios unless healing wish works much more for their team) or Support Arceus. With a meta that is filled with "If I set this up I might win right now on the spot," mentality, there are times where it isn't easy to use defog, especially when you see certain threats that can come in on a predicted move. That's right, I'm looking at you Mega-Mence. And Xerneas. And Arceus... and... well you get the idea. I don't think Deoxys-S offers enough support to seriously be taken past A+ rank, but right now, it does its job exceptionally well and has a way of benefitting HO teams with spikes and rocks without using 2 separate mons. I think that its support is why is should move up. It also tends to force players to quickly remove the hazards if at all possible because having just 1 layer of spikes and stealth rocks up will more often than not give a substantial advantage to the player who put them up. If E-killer arceus gets 1 SD off with that same scenario, I literally see nothing that stops it from straight up walking over the opponent besides D-bond Mega Gengar and Ghost Arceus. Sorry for the long post, I just felt like the forum was starting to get off track.
 
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Complicating said:
Can we please talk about legitimate things? Reshiram for A rank??? WTF? First off, it's outclassed by Primal-Don as a fire type. It's outclassed by the Lati twins (and probably others) as a dragon type. It doesn't really boast anything special like it used to. Primal-Ogre can use it as CM bait or just scare it out. As soon as it drops a draco, Mega-MegaMence; Rayquaza; Xerneas; [insert name of setup sweeper] has a free turn essentially. Reshiram is good for its surprise factor, but is fairly predictable and not hard to beat. It's the same reason Zekrom lost quite a bit of its glory when ORAS came about. Reshiram is at its very best a C rank, and that's being pretty generous.
Palkia... Are you serious? Honestly I'd say it should move down to C- Rank. It can't use a single water move against primal-Don, it will barely ever switch into Primal-Don, especially an offensive variant. Depending on the moveset, Palkia can be straight up walled by Primal-Ogre, a pokemon it's supposed to be able to check. Not to mention Palkia is outclassed by other dragon types which are virtually better in every way generally to say the least. By the way, remember how viability is also determined by general scenarios a specific mon will tend to create? Well if one mon is strong in its own right but carries a risk of being easy setup fodder for dangerous sweepers, then its validity drops... Palkia is C rank because Xerneas, CM Primal-Ogre, E-killer Arceus, Darkrai, various CM Arceus, and even Double Dance Primal-Don can use it to setup. So, there are at least 3 (common) very dangerous sweepers in that list which can use Palkia as fodder. Palkia also has virtually no way of getting past dedicated special walls in the tier, such as Lugia, some Support Arceus forms, and Blissey. Palkia just isn't very good right now. It might have a decent matchup against a few things, but a good player has a brain and can play the game too. Palkia just comes up short more often than not.
Mega Lopunny... Uhm... No. D/C- rank. It's quite speedy and hits ghost types but it lacks quite a bit of power in regards to the general bulkiness of everything in the Ubers tier ever. It hits Mega-Sableye. Good for it. It can beat Mence and Ray with Ice Punch. Good for it. I has HJK to hit... Dialga, E-killer Arceus, and whatever else it's super effective against AND it outspeeds AND OR it survives a priority hit from. Mega Lop doesn't have anywhere near enough bulk to hard switch into very many moves, meaning it can only seriously act as a revenge killer in most cases. Like Mega-Kanga, fake out acts as a double edged sword. Mega Lop will essentially get KOed if it misses out on getting a KO. So, yeah... Mega Lop has a nice niche with speed and coverage, but it lacks the proper bulk and raw strength to really pose huge danger to a majority of the tier. It's also Outclassed by E-killer Arceus' and Mega-Kanga, the latter of which has more bulk and gets 2 hits instead of 1 while having a fairly similar moveset.
Landorus-I should be D rank in my opinion. I barely even understand why it was moved into Ubers at all. Landorus-I in OU was great, but I honestly don't feel it should have been banned from OU. As much as I would rather talk about why Landorus-I should go back to OU, I know that this isn't the place. (I don't think it is anyway.) Landorus-I boasts incredible potential, but in Ubers... It will basically never meet that potential.
Here's a list of checks: Primal-Ogre, Yveltal, Bulky Mega Mence (without HP Ice), Arceus Norm, Darkrai, Mewtwo, Deoxys-A, Offensive Mega Diancie, Arceus-Water, Arceus-Ghost, Latios, Latias, Lugia, Mega-Gengar, Shaymin-Sky, Support Dialga, and Mega-Bro... This list also adds more things as Lando-I is worn down. There are also a few walls for it, such as Lugia and Primal-Ogre just to mention two of several. Lando-I is forced to run life orb (or choice specs I guess) if it is supposed to achieve the needed damage for KOs in the first place, which means that a number of scarf users beat it. Lando-I is so heavily outclassed by other ground types in the tier that there basically is no reason to use it on a team as opposed to something else. It has no real usable flying STAB move. It can virtually never act as a counter because of its frailty in Ubers. It has very little chance of ever setting up a CM effectively. It lacks priority and is curb-stomped by common priority users, such as Arceus and Yveltal. Honestly I'd say Lando-I has little to no viability in the tier to be completely honest. Not worthy of anything above D rank.
I'd like to also take a minute and say Deoxys-S up to A+ rank. The speed form is basically better than any other lead for hyper offense in my opinion. With a way to get around the 2 magic bouncers and the added ability of being able to taunt makes it exceptionally good at its job. It may not be the best hazard setter in the tier arguably, but it is really good at providing that support that several other mons just can't. It also outspeeds the whole tier and doesn't need to run hardly any speed to do that. I think Deoxys-S is really good right now as an alternative to Primal-Don if you want to run a team that's more geared towards HO. I think the main thing is the tier is between Balanced Offense and Hyper Offense with some variations and discourse generally speaking. Like, I've never actually seen stall the entire time I've played in Ubers ever since ORAS. Rapid Spin is virtually hard to make use of for quite a few teams because only a certain number of viable mons learn it. Defog support usually comes from Latios (I'll be honest, everyone uses Latios unless healing wish works much more for their team) or Support Arceus. With a meta that is filled with "If I set this up I might win right now on the spot," mentality, there are times where it isn't easy to use defog, especially when you see certain threats that can come in on a predicted move. That's right, I'm looking at you Mega-Mence. And Xerneas. And Arceus... and... well you get the idea. I don't think Deoxys-S offers enough support to seriously be taken past A+ rank, but right now, it does its job exceptionally well and has a way of benefitting HO teams with spikes and rocks without using 2 separate mons. I think that its support is why is should move up. It also tends to force players to quickly remove the hazards if at all possible because having just 1 layer of spikes and stealth rocks up will more often than not give a substantial advantage to the player who put them up. If E-killer arceus gets 1 SD off with that same scenario, I literally see nothing that stops it from straight up walking over the opponent besides D-bond Mega Gengar and Ghost Arceus. Sorry for the long post, I just felt like the forum was starting to get off track.
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he was joking with reshiram to a rank lol
 
mmx is useless vs all stalls, most balance and can be used as a waste of a mega slot if you want to survive one espeed from +2 ekiller - in my experiences w/ it most every team has at least one hard check to it, and even then soft checks littered around here and there.

jirachi is one of my fav niche mons in the tier and ive advocated for it to rise in ranking fof some time now. you can use it as a scarf pivot, rocks setter, hard xern check, non eq mence check (then again, i haven't played meta since winter ssnl so idk how common that is anymore) or even a hwish user if ur feeling adventurous.

on phone srry if anythings messed up, may elaborate later
 
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Complicating said:
Landorus-I should be D rank in my opinion. I barely even understand why it was moved into Ubers at all. Landorus-I in OU was great, but I honestly don't feel it should have been banned from OU. As much as I would rather talk about why Landorus-I should go back to OU, I know that this isn't the place. (I don't think it is anyway.) Landorus-I boasts incredible potential, but in Ubers... It will basically never meet that potential.
Here's a list of checks: Primal-Ogre, Yveltal, Bulky Mega Mence (without HP Ice), Arceus Norm, Darkrai, Mewtwo, Deoxys-A, Offensive Mega Diancie, Arceus-Water, Arceus-Ghost, Latios, Latias, Lugia, Mega-Gengar, Shaymin-Sky, Support Dialga, and Mega-Bro... This list also adds more things as Lando-I is worn down. There are also a few walls for it, such as Lugia and Primal-Ogre just to mention two of several. Lando-I is forced to run life orb (or choice specs I guess) if it is supposed to achieve the needed damage for KOs in the first place, which means that a number of scarf users beat it. Lando-I is so heavily outclassed by other ground types in the tier that there basically is no reason to use it on a team as opposed to something else. It has no real usable flying STAB move. It can virtually never act as a counter because of its frailty in Ubers. It has very little chance of ever setting up a CM effectively. It lacks priority and is curb-stomped by common priority users, such as Arceus and Yveltal. Honestly I'd say Lando-I has little to no viability in the tier to be completely honest. Not worthy of anything above D rank.
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Well considering 3/4 of OU voters seem to think Landorus was too much for OU, your opinion here only really ends up being a minority. Also, viability in Ubers does not dictate whether a mon should remain Ubers or not, otherwise the likes of Reshiram and Deoxys-N would've hauled ass ages ago.

Imo, Landorus's best niche in Ubers atm is an offensive Stealth Rocker, as described in this post. Not as in a 'Stealth Rocker that fits on offense' like Deoxys-S, but as in a Stealth Rocker that can deal a lot of damage. It's fast enough to outspeed a decent portion of the Ubers meta to either set up Stealth Rock or simply pummel them, and it has enough power to basically drop anything weak to Ground, cleanly OHKOing even bulkier variants of Primal Groudon, so its offensive presence isn't entirely overlooked. It can put a lot of pressure on nearly every hazard remover / preventor in the tier; even Arceus-Water has to choose between Defogging or succumb to Rash Landorus's Earth Power (252+ SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Water: 214-253 (48.1 - 56.9%) -- 91% chance to 2HKO), since it doesn't outspeed Landorus. Landorus's coverage is also expansive enough to allow Landorus to target what it wishes to hit, and although it doesn't manage to threaten most of its checks, it can usually just serve to set up Stealth Rock and do some strong last-ditch damage on them if need be.

I don't know why you're complaining about Landorus needing to hold Life Orb. That's like whining about Xerneas requiring Power Herb to be a monster; the benefits far outweigh the costs, and in Landorus's case, Life Orb offers little to zero cost at all thanks to Sheer Force. With that said, there are better options than Landorus overall, but it is not outclassed.
 
Krauersaut I've never seen a good team with Scarf Jirachi on it and Jirachi attempting to check Salamence is silly as most do indeed run Earthquake but, aside from that, I am in total concurrence with the point you made with Jirachi; of the myriad of defensive Steels one has access to in this metagame, Jirachi has carved out an interesting niche as the only one to have access to both (1) Wish, which grants it both team-supporting options and reliable recovery, in addition to (2) Serene Grace Body Slam. Luring in Primal Groudon that way as well as hitting it with a Toxic, too, a move that can be paired with Stealth Rock to beat Defoggers, allows for the Steel to morph to fit various needs for different team structures in a versatile fashion.

Anyway, I think that acknowledging how good this thing is at performing its niche role is important because B+, B, and B- are looking really messy right now...I think Jirachi is still less viable than Bronzong, whilst at the same time being more viable than either Mega Mewtwo Y or Shaymin-Sky.

Also, I agree with Dice that Mega Mewtwo X is really underwhelming; even Mewtwo itself is a lot less effective this generation and adding the sacrifice of a Mega Slot aggrevates this phenomenon.

I don't want to shift discussion too much but Klefki and Giratina-O have been proven to fit a lot easier on teams than other Pokémon in their respective subranks, too, and I think the two deserve to be bumped up a subrank, maybe even two to A+ for Giratina-O. It's true that Klefki is one dimensional but the fact that it so effortlessly keeps so many threats in check, like Darkrai, Xerneas, Mega Salamence, Latios, and Yveltal, leads me to believe that its viability is a notch higher than the likes of the other one dimensional Pokémon in the A rank. Like it's below Latios and Lugia right now and this is a ranking of viability lol.
 
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