Resource ORAS OU Metagame Discussion

[MANNAT]

Just wondering, does hp ice get any notable KOs over icy wind? cause slowing down weavile on the switch (if they're predicting a knock off) is extremely nice if you're vs like a chomp or lando.

 

[Shuple]

Just wondering, does hp ice get any notable KOs over icy wind? cause slowing down weavile on the switch (if they're predicting a knock off) is extremely nice if you're vs like a chomp or lando.

Can OHKO defensive Landorus-T after one time SR damage,while Icy Wind cannot guarantee this.

But I personally prefer Icy Wind.

 

[bludz]

Just wondering, does hp ice get any notable KOs over icy wind? cause slowing down weavile on the switch (if they're predicting a knock off) is extremely nice if you're vs like a chomp or lando.

On AV Torn HP Ice is much more likely to 2HKO Gliscor

Icy wind is mostly silly I think since why would a Weavile or mega Alakazam ever switch into you lol. The scenario you outlined is just a terrible play even if its a correct read. Personally I am not that big of a fan of HP Ice but it has its merits. Icy Wind makes absolutely no sense on LO variants, the only justification I can see is for AV ones since they can take a hit and then slow something down with Icy Wind. Even then it's a really niche pick imo

 

[Creator of Chaos]

Honestly The only HP I would take on Torn T is Ground. Torn can already learn Icy Wind and hurricane despite its shoddy accuracy deals with grounds decently enough. Ground Hits targets such as heatran, Metagross, T-Tar and Mag. I'm sure your gonna say why not focus miss. Well for one 100% accuracy and the last thing I want on my torns is coverage moves in addition to my stab missing.

Side note - Am I the only one who does not get scared whenever Torn - T appears in team preview. I swear it's the most underwhelming S rank ever.

 

[dream light]

Honestly The only HP I would take on Torn T is Ground. Torn can already learn Icy Wind and hurricane despite its shoddy accuracy deals with grounds decently enough. Ground Hits targets such as heatran, Metagross, T-Tar and Mag. I'm sure your gonna say why not focus miss. Well for one 100% accuracy and the last thing I want on my torns is coverage moves in addition to my stab missing.

Side note - Am I the only one who does not get scared whenever Torn - T appears in team preview. I swear it's the most underwhelming S rank ever.

Uh on mobile rn but HP Ground literally does fuckall to Tyranitar even if scarf (Superpower for non Chople and chipping Heatran anyway) and you have Heat Wave for Metagross and Mag, I guess if you're really threatened by Mags / tran then yeah but spower + wave will probably be fine especially given you hit everything but tran / mags harder plus get better coverage overall

Also icy wind can be undesirable for the transcendent ladder players that go from chomp / lando hard into bisharp trying to resist cane

Edit: rip NotFalse and hurricane

 

[Seth_]

Yo!

HP ice in theory might sound nice on Tornadus but in reality it doesnt hit anything which Hurricane doesn't. The calcs youve shown arent particularly special when you realise both Chomp and Lando are 2hkoed by Hurricane regardless, not to mention youre sacrificing either Superpower or Heat Wave, meaning you are now effectively walled by Ferrothorn, Heatran, TTar, Skarm, etc. You also sacrifice U-turn, the biggest reason for Tornadus's success, meaning you now lose switch initiative. Basically, you are sacrificing all of the benefits associated with using Tornadus to perform a role which can be much better done by something else.

Yeah, this set is a bit gimmicky, but I would like to defend my choice.

First of all, HP ice does not miss and if you are going for antilead that's important. You basicaly put lando in rocks range and garchomp in spikes range. Second thing is HP ice is not only useful for lando and garchomp. You can hit thundurus (which is often safe switch in), spdef gliscor (which laugh at hurricane dmg) and you have reliable move to hit other torns. And at last this set lets you support your team even more. Let's say you have zard team and keeping in mind your defoger/spinner you want to be extra sure that rocks are gone. With that set you not only keeps rocks away but also seriously hurt your zard switch in.

I'm not talknig this is the best set in game and if you use this you won but I think that's good enough to give it a try. And probably u-turn would be better than knock off ;)

 

[Taliheim]

I'm returning to singles after defecting to doubles pretty much around the STag ban, and my metagame knowledge is incredibly shot. If someone could post an accurate depiction of the current meta and/or how its changed since the stag ban, that would be great. Also will probably help out more than just myself.

 

[Martin]

I'm returning to singles after defecting to doubles pretty much around the STag ban, and my metagame knowledge is incredibly shot. If someone could post an accurate depiction of the current meta and/or how its changed since the stag ban, that would be great. Also will probably help out more than just myself.

Infernal has basically summed it up here and Funbot did a pretty good analysis of playstyles in the current meta here.

 

[Taliheim]

I've already read over those. I was thinking about the individual aspects that aren't as obvious but still important, like different movesets gaining popularity. I've heard, for example, that offensive chomp variants are gaining traction, and that Psychic is almost standard on Manaphy. Stuff like that. Usage stats I can look up myself.

 

[jordanthejq12]

So why did it take Specs Hoopa so long to become popular? And when did things spiral out of control? From my impressions the metagame was actually very stable and enjoyable post-Shadow Tag ban, so what changed?

 

[Ramses]

I've already read over those. I was thinking about the individual aspects that aren't as obvious but still important, like different movesets gaining popularity. I've heard, for example, that offensive chomp variants are gaining traction, and that Psychic is almost standard on Manaphy. Stuff like that. Usage stats I can look up myself.

Okay, I see. Basically

• Yes, Offensive Garchomp is the best set currently due to the defensive set facing a lot of competition from Defensive Landorus-T.
• Defensive Lando-T most commonly run SD over U-Turn to assist in breaking down bulkier teams
• Clefable most commonly runs Twave instead of a second attacking option
• ResTalk Keldeo is apparently a god now
• Protect Mega Diancie is the only set worth it's salt
• Rotom-W is apparently a god as well
• Offensive / Speedy Heatran variants are the best now
• People are realizing Hazard Removal isn't a necessity for every team (this is a big one)
• Mega Metagross practically needs Ice Punch now
• Mega Latias is really good, but use Reflect Type over Twave since that's trash imo
• Band Terrakion is awesome
• Pursuit Trapping + Keldeo + Hazard Stack = $$$
• Mega Altaria isn't good
• Bulky Offense is the best offense. If you have no bulk whatsoever it probably won't be too good.

this is basically how the metagame has shifted in about a month or two's time basically. if you still want something in depth wait for someone to mindlessly quote me

 

[Taliheim]

Nah, that's all I needed, thanks!

 

[bludz]

So why did it take Specs Hoopa so long to become popular? And when did things spiral out of control? From my impressions the metagame was actually very stable and enjoyable post-Shadow Tag ban, so what changed?

Because everyone assumed that the best set of a monstrous mixed attacker with a good movepool would be Life Orb. And so that's all everyone used at first bar some Scarf variants and people who actually tried to use Nasty Plot.

Band picked up popularity for Band HSF and a little while later people realized Choice locked Hoopa wasn't that big of a deal. Furthermore it needs to be near full to check a lot of things so the LO recoil kinda hurt it. The advent of Band allowed some people to pick up on the thought of Specs, probably.

It's not really easy to explain why a set isn't discovered immediately but that's what I could come up with. Basically, people probably didn't start even trying it til recently.

The other thing that changed is that Rotom-Wash is retardedly good now. Defensive lando is more common than Tank Chomp, Keldeo is the water of choice over Manaphy, Sand is good, Torn is good. Pursuit is everywhere thanks to Hoopa and Keldeo so you can Volt on Latios switchins to your Ttar. Rotom checks Torn, Talon, Exca and gives a million switch opportunities for Hoopa, which really enjoys the popularity of bulky offense centered around pivoting

There's definitely more to it but I would say the metagame was not stable after the suspect test, a bunch of shifts were occurring

 

[Creator of Chaos]

I wouldn't say T-wave clef is new. It's been the standard set since greninjas demise after me and few others helped to popularise it. Only thing that's changed is that it's omnipresence allows other clef sets such as tank or cleric fable to sneak under the Rader and cause huge dmg to unprepared players

Anyway is it just me or is breloom like really good now. I'm seeing it everyware right now and it's annoying.

 

[bludz]

Bit late on the Breloom thing, it was insane like a month or two back but people have adapted. Defensive Tangrowth, Amoonguss, etc. It's still strong and has left its mark but it's not as threatening as it was when people were totally unprepared for it

Also yes Twave Clef is not new whatsoever, that's been standard for about a year now

 

[Creator of Chaos]

I guess I am a bit on breloom lol. Still annoying regardless. I've just seen more then usual lately such is my luck.

Anyway bludz and anyone else interested in replying. What are your thoughts on calm mind spam right now. Usually it involves clef + another calm minder tho I've non clef combos to. I know the goth ban and a demise in trick users have helped the playstyle but I want to know exactly what everyone thinks :)

 

[bludz]

It's a strategy that's been good for a while now, i dont know if much has changed for it outside of Goth being gone. I really would not classify it as its own playstyle its just a quirk of some balance or bulky offense squads. Sort of team dependent since on some squads I would rather run TWave Slowbro or Reflect Type Mega Lati, but it can definitely work and Clef is the primary abuser. Can be cool with Mega Zam too

 

[Random Passerby]

Maybe it's due to my inexperience but with Choice Hoopa spamming HSF / Dark Pulse everywhere and Breloom Sporing everything slower, how does one plan to set up Calm Minds reliably? Plus, Mega Alakazam just trolls you with Encore if you try.

 

[Martin]

Am I the only one who's been facing a complete abundance of Magnezone on the suspect ladder? Seriously I swear I've faced one in about 60% of my games on there and it is really starting to piss me off a little if anything. What's going on that is causing all the hype around it?

 

[Random Passerby]

Am I the only one who's been facing a complete abundance of Magnezone on the suspect ladder? Seriously I swear I've faced one in about 60% of my games on there and it is really starting to piss me off a little if anything. What's going on that is causing all the hype around it?

Isn't it a trend for the Suspect Ladder to be flooded with HO teams? So, Magnezone is probably just there to trap Steels for whatever sweeper they are using. If anything, Magneton is a bit more viable imo since it can actually outpace Weavile and Torn-T if it uses a Scarf.

 

[ethanlol]

Right now I'm trying to build an HO team around Sharpedo for the Weekly Research thread. I wanted to have hazard stacking to support it. I wanted to see if anyone thinks that Sharpedo can be compared to Gyarados. I believe Sharpedo functions well vs offense and is a cleaner. While Gyarados functions well vs. bulky teams and is able to boost itself for the sweep. It is significant that Sharpedo is much less bulky than Gyara. I want to know the thoughts of others. Will the decrease of offense be bad for Sharpedo? Which one functions better? What are your thoughts?

 

[Thatwackycruton]

Okay, I see. Basically

• Yes, Offensive Garchomp is the best set currently due to the defensive set facing a lot of competition from Defensive Landorus-T.
• Defensive Lando-T most commonly run SD over U-Turn to assist in breaking down bulkier teams
• Clefable most commonly runs Twave instead of a second attacking option
• ResTalk Keldeo is apparently a god now
• Protect Mega Diancie is the only set worth it's salt
• Rotom-W is apparently a god as well
• Offensive / Speedy Heatran variants are the best now
• People are realizing Hazard Removal isn't a necessity for every team (this is a big one)
• Mega Metagross practically needs Ice Punch now
• Mega Latias is really good, but use Reflect Type over Twave since that's trash imo
• Band Terrakion is awesome
• Pursuit Trapping + Keldeo + Hazard Stack = $$$
• Mega Altaria isn't good
• Bulky Offense is the best offense. If you have no bulk whatsoever it probably won't be too good.

this is basically how the metagame has shifted in about a month or two's time basically. if you still want something in depth wait for someone to mindlessly quote me

Basically sums it up, but I've found RP Diance to be pretty slick as a cleaner. Protect is usually better, yeah, but RP gives it some sweet utility against teams that rely on stuff like Mlop as fastmons. CM is pretty ass rn, yeah.

Edit: Here's your mindless quote... Sorry.

 

[Cheryl.]

Heracross @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Guts
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Close Combat
- Megahorn
- Facade

Ok so I noticed regular Heracross at C rank in the VR and after looking at it's sets for a bit, decided to build a SD Guts Heracross team to help to get reqs. And, after playing with Heracross for a bit, I can safely say that it's actually not that bad, not that good, but not that bad. While it's Mega is usually better, regular Heracross has some notable advantages, such as a higher speed tier (Outspeeds Hoopa-U, but doesn't matter since it's banned for the suspect ;-;), and being able to run another Mega along with it. I use Mega Lopunny alongside this Heracross set, as this set helps to wear down some of Mega Lopunny's checks, like bulky Ground-types and Clefable, with Guts Facade, and bulky Psychic types with Megahorn. A +2 Guts Facade can even OHKO Magic Guard Clefable, which is pretty cool. It also sets up on mons like Gliscor, and can proceed to do massive damage to the opposing team. The problem is that it can't really break stall because Toxic Orb and potential Sand damage really wear it down, so it usually wants a Healing Wish mon so it has another chance to break the opposing team. Overall, it's a pretty cool mon with some advantages over Mega Heracross, and I think it could use some use for those advantages. Really underrated mon imo.

 

[p2]

speaking of heracross

The opposing Heracross used Megahorn!
It's super effective! tangy tom lost 98.0% of its health!
The opposing Heracross is hurt by tangy tom's Rocky Helmet!

physically defensive tang is broken lol and yes that was with toxic orb activated

physical tang is such a good catch-all to a bunch of threats nowadays, taking on sand, breloom, other offensive grounds, rocks, etc, it just checks a billion things. not to mention its movepool is really expansive, giving you the option to check anything you want, with stuff like sleep powder to pressure torn-t and leech seed to gain recovery off everything, hp fire for ferro, eq for fires and electrics, rock slide for birds, hp ice for grounds, and the list goes on and on.

really, this mon is just amazing in the meta right now, though it sucks that stuff like specs keld scalds blow it back and all, but it's got av if it wants to handle that kinda stuff.

short post because its late and i need sleep, but yeah tang is just insane defensively.

 

[Seth_]

It is just me, or hoopa-c is new hoopa-u?

and hoopa-u for comparisment

However defensive typing is even worse, speed is lower, but still break shit and has chance to annihilate more than few teams on suspect test ladder, unprepared for hoopa.