Battle Spot You know, I've not done this before (Premiere RMT)

[a0161613]

Apologies in advance for any errors.

This is a squad that has carried me to the edge of 1400 on the BS ladder on Showdown. Currently I’m hovering between 1300 & 1350.

Team Building Process

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I designed this team to function with two very separate cores that would be able to be functional, dependent on what I saw in team preview. The primary core is and always has been Hippowdon, Dragonite & Special Mega Lucario.

This is well renowned core in Battle Spot Singles and I am delighted that I tried it. The combination of the bulky, multi-purpose wall in Hippo is complimented brilliantly by the physical strength of Dragonite. Multiscale’s usefulness cannot be overestimated. The threat of Lucario lurking in the back is compounded by the fact that it is expected to be physical. It’s capabilities as a special attacker make it extremely potent.

The rest of this team is where I struggled. I went for Maw because I wanted to try out trick room. Porygon2 was the perfect partner as a TR setter. It’s bulky thanks to Eviolite and has a couple of attacks to punish opponents.

I had chosen Life Orb Hydreigon to punish certain threats. This choice compounds a severe fighting weakness which exists throughout the squad and would exacerbate the HP Ice Thundurus/Zapdos weakness that this main core was known for.

I replaced that with Rocky Helmet Zapdos.

I’m more than open to replacing this second trio but I would prefer to keep it functioning as a separate core, unless I can see something that could function alongside a combination of Hippo, Drag & Luc. On its’ day that trio can be potent and I believe the choices need to be compliment this. Alternatively, some alternative cores to compliment the main three would be interesting.

The sets:

Hippowdon @ Safety Goggles/Sitrus
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Roar/Slack Off
- Yawn
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake

My Lead. Hippo does its’ job but I’ve yet to drill down on the set in a way that I am 100% happy with. Yawn & Stealth Rock are almost always the first two moves. That leaves a vulnerability to Taunt. Earthquake allows me to hit certain threat and even burnt, this does big damage to poison types like Mega Gengar and steel types like Aegislash.

Roar is a recent addition over Slack Off and I added this at the same time as Safety Goggles. I was fed up of getting Spore’d by lead Breloom. I’m sure it’s not optimal but it certainly has come in useful. I had thought about Sleep Talk or even Facade but it seems unreasonable to force two attacks onto my wall.

The EVs are taken from the analysis. Full HP & Special Defence compliment the nature for maximum bulk.

Lucario-Mega (F) @ Lucarionite
Ability: Adaptability
Level: 50
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Flash Cannon
- Nasty Plot
- Vacuum Wave
- Aura Sphere

Luke’s set is really simple. STAB attacks get the Adaptability boost. Nasty Plot boosts the power of those attacks. Vacuum Wave is especially brutal priority. Maximum attack and speed to capitalise on all the POWAH.

Dragonite (F) @ Lum Berry
Ability: Multiscale
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Outrage
- Extreme Speed
- Fire Punch

DD ‘Nite is a crucial part of the team despite the compounded Ice weakness. Multiscale is in many ways the crucial part of this. It allows a DD set up to be almost guaranteed even in Sand. Lum is a one-time get out of jail card from status. Paralysis, burns and even confusion from Outrage all drastically affect Drag’s ability to sweep. Extreme Speed is another crucial priority move. Fire Punch is great coverage with grass and steel types being popular.

Mawile @ Mawilite
Ability: Huge Power
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Iron Head
- Play Rough
- Sucker Punch

Mawile is something I really wanted to fit onto this team. I know it’s really impressive when it actually attacks but it’s so slow and frail. STAB attacks in Iron Head and Play Rough make that work. Sucker Punch allows for Maw to exploit its’ vulnerability as a easy victim; it is crucial priority. Sword Dance is a potentially open slot. It’s a great move but Mawile doesn’t struggle for options here. Knock Off is somewhat viable here.

Porygon2 @ Eviolite
Ability: Trace
Level: 50
EVs: 244 HP / 252 Def / 12 SpA
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Ice Beam
- Foul Play
- Recover
- Trick Room

Pory2 was the obvious partner; the perfect TR setter and bulky as hell to boot. Eviolite is the only option on Pory2 as its’ not-fully-evolved forme means it has to have it to stay around. Ice Beam destroys the dragons that roam around Battle Spot and Foul Play hurts physical attackers. Pory2 does compound a fighting type weakness as does Lucario.

The EVs are taken from the analysis. Like Hippo, we have maximised bulk but this time it's in physical defence.

Zapdos @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
- Roost
- Thunderbolt
- Heat Wave
- Toxic/Thunder Wave/HP Ice

After getting rid of Hydreigon, Zapdos felt right. I was desperate to seal the fighting type weakness that exists as well as a vulnerability to powerful water types like Azu. The EV’s moves and item choice are all obvious as T’bolt and Roost give attacking potency plus durability. Heat Wave is another useful attack. The last move slot is where options come in and Toxic & HP Ice are just two.

I recently reset a Naive Zapdos with HP Grass. I genuinely wonder if a mixed attacking Zap could work as Drill Peck could be an interesting lure/solution for the likes of Breloom.

I’m keen on keeping the primary core but could alternate with good reason. The remaining three are open to change. I’ve no attachments to sets etc. The above sets cover all my tested alternate move options

Threats:

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Mega Heracross: It’s Skill Link that does it. Bullet Seed wrecks Hippo, doesn’t really fear anything from Luc and its’ team-mates often handle Dragonite. The same applies for Cloyster to a lesser extent.

Greninja: Especially with Life Orb. It’s not terribly difficult to predict but Ice Beams goes through Multiscale and does a huge amount to Hippo. Even Lucario is destroyed by Hydro Pump, speaking of both ‘Ninja’s power and Luc’s frailty.

Talonflame: The sheer versatility of this bird is remarkable. It’s not necessarily difficult to take down but it’s strong and quick and it’s everywhere.

Mega Kanga: If I can’t set up with Dragonite or Lucario respectively the chances of KO’ing straight away go down. Yawning can work but Fake Out is crucial for it especially as a lead. Elemental punches have been a clever weapon against this team and as you might imagine, Ice Punch and Fire Punch goes through the majority of the squad and both megas.

Breloom: Perfectly accurate Spore is a problem to the extent that I’ve pondered fitting on Sleep Talk somewhere. Beyond that, Rock Tomb hurts Dragonite (but Lum Berry secures an awakening and can be counter attacked with Fire Punch and Extreme Speed) and fighting moves kills or does a chunk to Luc.

Mega-Slowbro: Because it won the Break The Core for Hip Dra Luc that time. It’s extremely powerful and there is a temptation to put Thunder Punch on Drag.

Scald: I swear it’s broken on PS...

Taunt: Wrecks Hippo especially if it comes turn 1 from a flying type.

Pranskter: Mega Sableye on its’ first turn, can burn Hippowdon with priority status and then reflect Stealth Rock or Roar or deflect Yawn. THundurus doesn’t do anything to Hippo with TWve but can carry Grass Knot or HP Ice.

Mamoswine: This is one of my favourites on BSS and it can destroy Hippo & Dragonite with STAB Ice moves and beat Luc with EQ.


So yes, if it’s not clear status is bad. Strong attackers are bad. Bulk is troublesome.

This is the importable with preferred sets.

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Hippowdon @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Slack Off
- Yawn
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake

Lucario-Mega (F) @ Lucarionite
Ability: Adaptability
Level: 50
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Flash Cannon
- Nasty Plot
- Vacuum Wave
- Aura Sphere

Dragonite (F) @ Lum Berry
Ability: Multiscale
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Outrage
- Extreme Speed
- Fire Punch

Mawile @ Mawilite
Ability: Huge Power
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Iron Head
- Play Rough
- Sucker Punch

Porygon2 @ Eviolite
Ability: Trace
Level: 50
EVs: 244 HP / 252 Def / 12 SpA
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Ice Beam
- Foul Play
- Recover
- Trick Room

Zapdos @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
- Roost
- Thunderbolt
- Heat Wave
- Toxic

Shoutouts: The regular crew in the Battle Spot section.

 

[Omastar68]

You didn't do any of the EV changes I mentioned in the teambuilding help thread earlier :/

Anyways, first thing I noticed is Safety Goggles is a no go for Hippo. It's Ofc immune to sand, and blocking Spire doesn't matter too much when stuff like Loom is resistant, and Sleep Powder stuff you sometimes see like Vivillon is pretty safe too. Sitrus is better, and the stats reflect this. Only .01% of Hippo are Safety Goggles.

Lucario looks good. I think special is prolly better than physical actually. I'm wondering how useful Vacuum Wave has been for you. If it hasn't been much help you could replace it with Dark Pulse to deal better with stuff like Slowbro.

I think Knock Off is better than Iron Head on Mawi. Iron Head's STAB is overshadowed by steel's generally poor coverage. Knock Off also gives a weapon against Heatran, which is notably completely safe vs DNite that don't have a boost or two.

You mentioned a fighting weakness, and while that's partly taken carme of by Zapdos, Cress over P2 would help even more. Cress is actually not OHKOd by Mega Hera, and since they often run Spe for Cress you can set TR then use Psychic, or Lunar Dance. LD also helps a ton with DNite, who loves having Multiscale restored. Cress is also untouchable to Mamo save for Toxic.

Zapdos seems nice here. I'd say the last slot should be HP Ice. If you really want Toxic I think Hippo does that better. T-Wave doesn't make too much sense to me since you have two TR mons and two that are quite fast by themselves. Hippo also can work in. TR, and doesn't always benefit much from outspeeding the for anyways. Have you not had luck finding a perfect Static Zapdos? Pressure is still ok, but I think it's less good. Even if you don't benefit hugely from para support I think that chance is better, and you don't have much status on this team at all so it doesn't conflict.

As for Naive Zapdos, I'd say no. All it really has for good physical attacks are Drill Peck and U-Turn, maybe Sky Attack with Power Herb but that's iffy. You'd also be taking away from that great SpD, opening you up to stuff like Rotoms, mirrors, and Thund. And does Zapdos even like +Spe natures? Normally it's Bold. For instance, only .0085% are Naive.

I hope this helps:)

 

[Psynergy]

You've been asking for help on this for awhile now, cool that you finally got a team to go with the HippoDragLuc core.

Interesting call on running specially defensive Hippo, dropping Slack Off is kinda risky and I generally wouldn't recommend it but phasing + Yawn is definitely very useful. I would also suggest Whirlwind and not Roar, if only for the occasional Soundproof blocking Roar. The other thing is that if you drop Slack Off at all, you want Sitrus Berry because cutting down on Hippo's longevity is generally not something you want. It also generally wants Rocky Helmet but you want recovery so Sitrus Berry is fine unless you decide to keep Slack Off. Ideally though if you see a Breloom you should avoid leading Hippowdon since a wary opponent will recognize the HippoDragLuc core and be more inclined to lead with it, furthered by the fact that Breloom is generally a lead regardless. Also you don't specify, but just in case you haven't done so, make sure Hippo's Speed IV is 24-25 to underspeed Aegislash and hit it in Blade forme (or 0 if you don't care about Hippo speed ties).

Special Lucario is also a respectable choice since your team lacks strong special attacking options. Only thing I'd suggest is trying Focus Blast over Aura Sphere, you already have Flash Cannon for a strong reliable STAB and Vacuum Wave provides some much needed priority to clean up after a Nasty Plot, so Aura Sphere isn't that necessary. Focus Blast's power is also very useful for getting KOes, such as these:

Focus Blast calcs

252 SpA Adaptability Mega Lucario Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Porygon2: 204-240 (106.2 - 125%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Adaptability Mega Lucario Focus Blast vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Rotom-W: 136-162 (87.1 - 103.8%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 SpA Adaptability Mega Lucario Focus Blast vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 296-352 (90.7 - 107.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

This is somewhat preferential though, Aura Sphere's perfect accuracy can be useful against evasion spammers and Focus Blast's shaky accuracy can definitely be a detriment sometimes, but I think it's worth considering if haven't tried it yet.


For the rest of your team I think some changes could help out more, not sure if these three are necessarily a huge help given the weaknesses you mention.

I would actually consider removing Mawile; usually with double Mega, the second Mega should help deal with the bad matchups that your first Mega has and Mawile shares a lot of the same weaknesses as Lucario. I would consider Gengar in place of Mawile, Wisp variants in particular are very good at checking Kangaskhan which you mention being a problem for you. Focus Sash Gengar would be really useful for you here since it's a great emergency check to a lot of things you you have listed, but it clashes with Hippowdon's sand so you'd need to be careful of that. Alternatively you could try the Hypnosis + Substitute set though you might not be a fan of Hypnosis's accuracy. Regardless, I think Gengar helps a lot with some of the problems you're having, no matter what set. Another option over Mawile would be Aegislash, which gives you another solid switch-in to a ton of threats at the cost of an extra Ground and Fire weakness.

Of course removing Mawile doesn't help your Ice-type weakness, if Ice-types are giving you trouble I'd consider Rotom-W over Zapdos, since Greninja and Mamoswine struggle to win 1v1 against Rotom-W and it maintains your Talonflame check here. There's a few ways you could go about this but physically defensive Rotom-W checks Talonflame well, although it would require Sitrus Berry so you'd need to run Rocky Helmet and Slack Off on Hippo. Alternatively you can use Scarf Rotom-W to serve as a revenge killer, but this makes it less safe as a Talonflame check. Either route works, Scarf makes your team more offensive while bulky Rotom-W gives you more flexibility in terms of switches.

At this point Porygon2 is kinda out of place and would be better off with a physical attacker since without Mawile your team lacks physical presence. Kangaskhan is great if you try a non-Mega variant of Gengar or go with Aegislash, and it's an effective wallbreaker for Dragonite. It limits you a little since both Lucario and Kangaskhan rely on their Megas though. Talonflame is another alternative that fits here as well, threatening the Mega Heracross that worries you and also giving you another form of priority, which can be useful for putting great pressure against other more offensive teams.

Lots of variation in the last three slots so I don't have a lot of super concrete suggestions for them, but I think these options fit better on your HippoDragoLuc core against the stuff you say is giving you trouble. If nothing else, I hope this gives you some ideas!

 

[a0161613]

You didn't do any of the EV changes I mentioned in the teambuilding help thread earlier :/

Well I did say that without good reason, I would not see the point in deviating from the analysis spreads.

Anyways, first thing I noticed is Safety Goggles is a no go for Hippo. It's Ofc immune to sand, and blocking Spire doesn't matter too much when stuff like Loom is resistant, and Sleep Powder stuff you sometimes see like Vivillon is pretty safe too. Sitrus is better, and the stats reflect this. Only .01% of Hippo are Safety Goggles.

Hey, I didn't say it was a good idea. It was a case of trying to force a solution onto something that was not realistically an answer. But you'll note that Sitrus Berry was on the importable.

Lucario looks good. I think special is probably better than physical actually. I'm wondering how useful Vacuum Wave has been for you. If it hasn't been much help you could replace it with Dark Pulse to deal better with stuff like Slowbro.

VW has been immensely, invaluably useful and if I'm changing anything on this set it's Dark Pulse over Aura Sphere. But Slowbro isnt too much of an issue due to being special.

I think Knock Off is better than Iron Head on Mawi. Iron Head's STAB is overshadowed by steel's generally poor coverage. Knock Off also gives a weapon against Heatran, which is notably completely safe vs DNite that don't have a boost or two.

Not a terrible idea but I'd be reluctant to get rid of STAB for utility when Swords Dance is the open slot there.

You mentioned a fighting weakness, and while that's partly taken care of by Zapdos, Cress over P2 would help even more. Cress is actually not OHKOd by Mega Hera, and since they often run Spe for Cress you can set TR then use Psychic, or Lunar Dance. LD also helps a ton with DNite, who loves having Multiscale restored. Cress is also untouchable to Mamo save for Toxic.

Cress has always felt so passive. I saw aniravjain run it as part of a Mega Blastoise TR core and those two were the first iteration of the TR part of the team.

Cress is still vulnerable to Mega Hera:
252+ Atk Mega Heracross Pin Missile (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia: 210-250 (92.5 - 110.1%) -- approx. 18.8% chance to OHKO
With Sitrus, Hippo technically deals with it better:
252+ Atk Mega Heracross Bullet Seed (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Hippowdon: 180-220 (83.7 - 102.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Sitrus Berry recovery

Zapdos seems nice here. I'd say the last slot should be HP Ice. If you really want Toxic I think Hippo does that better. T-Wave doesn't make too much sense to me since you have two TR mons and two that are quite fast by themselves. Hippo also can work in. TR, and doesn't always benefit much from outspeeding the for anyways. Have you not had luck finding a perfect Static Zapdos? Pressure is still ok, but I think it's less good. Even if you don't benefit hugely from para support I think that chance is better, and you don't have much status on this team at all so it doesn't conflict.

Static birds have barely been released in the West and I'm not sure many people on the forums have one let alone for trade. I'm not sure if HP Ice is necessary with Ice Beam on P2 and potentially Ice Punch on D'nite.

As for Naive Zapdos, I'd say no. All it really has for good physical attacks are Drill Peck and U-Turn, maybe Sky Attack with Power Herb but that's iffy. You'd also be taking away from that great SpD, opening you up to stuff like Rotoms, mirrors, and Thund. And does Zapdos even like +Spe natures? Normally it's Bold. For instance, only .0085% are Naive.

I know what it is usually and what it is optimally. I feel it's at least potentially an option if only for an attacking set because of the IV's that I got. I would have felt like an idiot for not at least mentioning it.

I hope this helps:)

Unfortunately not as there are no alternatives and pretty much only confirms what I was aware of. I appreciate the effort but if you see what Psynergy did (and what I believe cant say will be adding to later) is the need to find alternative ideas for replacements. I'm being way too harsh but felt it needed to be said.

You've been asking for help on this for awhile now, cool that you finally got a team to go with the HippoDragLuc core.

Interesting call on running specially defensive Hippo, dropping Slack Off is kinda risky and I generally wouldn't recommend it but phasing + Yawn is definitely very useful. I would also suggest Whirlwind and not Roar, if only for the occasional Soundproof blocking Roar. The other thing is that if you drop Slack Off at all, you want Sitrus Berry because cutting down on Hippo's longevity is generally not something you want. It also generally wants Rocky Helmet but you want recovery so Sitrus Berry is fine unless you decide to keep Slack Off. Ideally though if you see a Breloom you should avoid leading Hippowdon since a wary opponent will recognize the HippoDragLuc core and be more inclined to lead with it, furthered by the fact that Breloom is generally a lead regardless. Also you don't specify, but just in case you haven't done so, make sure Hippo's Speed IV is 24-25 to underspeed Aegislash and hit it in Blade forme (or 0 if you don't care about Hippo speed ties).

I'm not too fussed about the speed IV on Hippo. I've never tried mixing the cores up (so Hippo in TR set up by P2 hasnt been a thing I've seen) but in most cases, I usually try and hit Aegi with EQ as it's at worst a 2hko in Shield forme.

Whirlwind over Roar will happen though.

Special Lucario is also a respectable choice since your team lacks strong special attacking options. Only thing I'd suggest is trying Focus Blast over Aura Sphere, you already have Flash Cannon for a strong reliable STAB and Vacuum Wave provides some much needed priority to clean up after a Nasty Plot, so Aura Sphere isn't that necessary. Focus Blast's power is also very useful for getting KOes, such as these:

Focus Blast calcs

252 SpA Adaptability Mega Lucario Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Porygon2: 204-240 (106.2 - 125%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Adaptability Mega Lucario Focus Blast vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Rotom-W: 136-162 (87.1 - 103.8%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 SpA Adaptability Mega Lucario Focus Blast vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 296-352 (90.7 - 107.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

This is somewhat preferential though, Aura Sphere's perfect accuracy can be useful against evasion spammers and Focus Blast's shaky accuracy can definitely be a detriment sometimes, but I think it's worth considering if haven't tried it yet.

It's something I hadnt tried and it's the ultimate accuracy vs power argument for me. Omastar made a good point over Dark Pulse and I think Aura Sphere is the move to use it over.

For the rest of your team I think some changes could help out more, not sure if these three are necessarily a huge help given the weaknesses you mention.

I would actually consider removing Mawile; usually with double Mega, the second Mega should help deal with the bad matchups that your first Mega has and Mawile shares a lot of the same weaknesses as Lucario. I would consider Gengar in place of Mawile, Wisp variants in particular are very good at checking Kangaskhan which you mention being a problem for you. Focus Sash Gengar would be really useful for you here since it's a great emergency check to a lot of things you you have listed, but it clashes with Hippowdon's sand so you'd need to be careful of that. Alternatively you could try the Hypnosis + Substitute set though you might not be a fan of Hypnosis's accuracy. Regardless, I think Gengar helps a lot with some of the problems you're having, no matter what set. Another option over Mawile would be Aegislash, which gives you another solid switch-in to a ton of threats at the cost of an extra Ground and Fire weakness.

Of course removing Mawile doesn't help your Ice-type weakness, if Ice-types are giving you trouble I'd consider Rotom-W over Zapdos, since Greninja and Mamoswine struggle to win 1v1 against Rotom-W and it maintains your Talonflame check here. There's a few ways you could go about this but physically defensive Rotom-W checks Talonflame well, although it would require Sitrus Berry so you'd need to run Rocky Helmet and Slack Off on Hippo. Alternatively you can use Scarf Rotom-W to serve as a revenge killer, but this makes it less safe as a Talonflame check. Either route works, Scarf makes your team more offensive while bulky Rotom-W gives you more flexibility in terms of switches.

At this point Porygon2 is kinda out of place and would be better off with a physical attacker since without Mawile your team lacks physical presence. Kangaskhan is great if you try a non-Mega variant of Gengar or go with Aegislash, and it's an effective wallbreaker for Dragonite. It limits you a little since both Lucario and Kangaskhan rely on their Megas though. Talonflame is another alternative that fits here as well, threatening the Mega Heracross that worries you and also giving you another form of priority, which can be useful for putting great pressure against other more offensive teams.

Lots of variation in the last three slots so I don't have a lot of super concrete suggestions for them, but I think these options fit better on your HippoDragoLuc core against the stuff you say is giving you trouble. If nothing else, I hope this gives you some ideas!

These are all great shouts. Getting rid of Mawile & TR is the right call and it gives me so much to think about. I guess what I need to figure out is when to bring HipDraLuc and when to bring the second Mega or when to bring Talonflame. I've been so stuck on the "main" three that I think it's an issue with how I deal with Team Preview. I prefer to glance quickly and then choose my three to suit.

The only issue I have is that when facing HipDraLuc usually deal with Mega Gengar & Mega Kang with little fuss so I've never seen the big threat that those two pose. Sash Gengar has been immense and I put together an all out attacking set as part of BSS tournament team. It formed a great core with Mamoswine. Aegi is something I've never got to grips with but I think it's because of sheer quality of the sets that it can run.

I'm definitely in favour of Rotom W and I'd also thought about Rotom H but I think Wash, Talon and a secondary Mega going to be my first serious set of changes. I've also thought that somewhere Gyarados would fit somewhere.

Thanks Psynergy!

 

[Omastar68]

Lol, don't worry, I appreciate the honesty. I'm pretty blunt too, and I also don't want people going with my suggestions no questions asked, it's good you're questioning my advice.

Here are some calcs since you want better reasons:

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252+ SpA Choice Specs Rotom-W Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Hippowdon: 236-278 (109.7 - 129.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ SpA Rotom-W Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 212 SpD Hippowdon: 180-212 (83.7 - 98.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Sitrus Berry recovery

You're not using Hippo go check Rotom-W obviously, but my point here is the really hard hitting ones OHKO anyways, and for the more moderate ones you can avoid an OHKO with MUCH more physical bulk.

252 SpA Life Orb Thundurus Grass Knot (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 188 SpD Hippowdon: 179-213 (83.2 - 99%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Sitrus Berry recovery

Even with less special bulk Thund doesn't OHKO, and you can cut back further cuz it's the physical bulk you really wa t and Taunt Thund shuts down Hippo completely. Also note this spread is virtually never 2HKPd by HP Ice, and never by Go us Blast.

+1 252+ Atk Aerilate Mega Salamence Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Hippowdon: 204-241 (94.8 - 112%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO

Here's an example of what you're losing on the physical side. Hopefully you're not letting Mence st up in the first place, but still.

+1 252+ Atk Aerilate Mega Salamence Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 68+ Def Hippowdon: 178-210 (82.7 - 97.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Sitrus Berry recovery

252+ Atk Aerilate Mega Salamence Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 68+ Def Hippowdon: 118-141 (54.8 - 65.5%) -- 21.5% chance to 2HKO after Sitrus Berry recovery

Much better. Also far from guaranteed to 2HKO unboosted, and remember you can run more physical bulk. Like I suffered 252/124 for you earlier, and that's never 2HKOd.

252+ Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 124+ Def Hippowdon: 118-141 (54.8 - 65.5%) -- 8% chance to 2HKO after Sitrus Berry recovery

252+ Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Hippowdon: 142-169 (66 - 78.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Sitrus Berry recovery

+2 252+ Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 124+ Def Hippowdon: 234-277 (108.8 - 128.8%) -- 10.9% chance to OHKO

+2 252+ Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Hippowdon: 283-335 (131.6 - 155.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

More Def is way better with Kang, so you can actually set up rocks or live a hit to phase it if it's +2.

Anyways, I hope that makes you redonsider EVs on Hippo. I don't wanna do more cuz there's also other stuff, but I think you get the point. I'd say 252/124+/132 for EVs unless the special attackers realily bother you then you should look for alternate spreads. Main thing tho is that +Def nature.

252 SpA Life Orb Thundurus Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mega Lucario: 130-153 (89.6 - 105.5%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO

252 SpA Life Orb Thundurus Thunderbolt vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Lucario: 130-153 (89 - 104.7%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO

It's easy to not care about that tiny bit of bulk, especially on something so offensive. But here you see 4 HP is the same chance to live, and better bulk overall.

244+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Lucario: 136-162 (93.1 - 110.9%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO

244+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Lucario: 136-162 (93.7 - 111.7%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO

This is one of the examples of a pro of HP rather than SpD. This is pretty minor, but I think a bigger deal then any of the special calcs that get worse I've noticed(Greninja Hydro Pump and -2 Rotom-H Overheat. And neither chance even goes up that much.)

248 SpA Life Orb Serperior Hidden Power Fire vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Lucario: 83-99 (56.8 - 67.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

This is obviously a 2HKO regardless of where those last 4 EVs are, and an OHKO if Serp is +2. You lose nothing here by investing in HP.

That wasn't a lot of reasons, but I think it's enough to convince you to implement such a minor change.
[\Hide]

I actually didn't see in the importable that you went with Sitrus not Safety Goggles. But then why'd you even slash it yo top? And more importantly, why was it the FIRST part of the slash?

That's kinda what I thought about Vacuum Wave, tho Dark Pulse also gets a few other things that can handle STABs like Jellicent and Aegi. I'd recommend either that or Focus Blast over Aura Sphere-the power nerd this Ben really hurts it.

Knock Off on Mawi isn't exactly utility. It does a lot of damage in its own right, and isn't susceptible to mind games like Sucker. Some other things it helps with more than Iron Head are Ferro, Scizor(even Megas,) Aegi, and just anything that really likes its item. The stuff you don't do as well with isn't as important, like Mega Altaria and Clefable.

Cress is passive. CM sets have grown in popularity so she doesn't necessarily have to be, but offensive ones don't have LD which is her main purpose, at least if you were to use her here. And why compare her to Hippo for taking a hit from Hera? It's P2 I was saying to replace :P

I didn't kno the HA birds were still really hard to get. When they're easier to obtain, will you be changing your Zapdos for an HA one? And you can never really have enough ice coverage, plus P2 is likely being replaced and Ice Punch on DNite kinda sux cuz of redundancy with Dragon coverage. That's why it's so low in usage.

Weird stuff is always interesting, so I think it'd be neat if you used a Naive Zapdos. I just can't imagine it being better than Bold. But I guess if it's IVs are good then it'd be a waste to neglect it. We're aiming for a Naive one? Also, if you're serious about it, you should run some calcs to see if you want Drill Peck or Power Herb Sky Attack(No Acrobatics tho:(. )

The reason you wanna underspeed Aegi with Hippo is because hitting it in Shield For, activates WP, which is quite common on Aegi(41.29%.) Ideally you wanna underspeed by just one point, to still be as fast as possible. That doesn't really matter tho, so min Spe is fine too.

I agree with changing out the TR part of the team and probably Zapdos too. The common stuff Psynergy suggested sounds good. Gengar is never really a bad fit on teams without a ghost or dark weakness, and Talon can also provide Fire coverage so DNite can afford to run the more standard EQ. Kang is another thing that's pretty much always good, and I can see Gyara working here, tho with Talon and stuff that seems to make you very Thundurus weak.

I hope I actually helped you this time:)

EDIT: Apparently I put everything, not just the calcs, in the hide tag. So...deal with it lol

 

[a0161613]

I'm currently rolling with this squad and after one evening on the ladder, my win/loss is probably even at worst.

Hide

Lucario-Mega (F) @ Lucarionite
Ability: Adaptability
Level: 50
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Flash Cannon
- Nasty Plot
- Vacuum Wave
- Dark Pulse

Hippowdon @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Whirlwind
- Yawn
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake

Dragonite (F) @ Lum Berry
Ability: Multiscale
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Outrage
- Extreme Speed
- Fire Punch

Talonflame @ Maranga Berry
Ability: Gale Wings
Level: 50
EVs: 236 HP / 4 Atk / 44 Def / 188 SpD / 36 Spe
- Brave Bird
- Roost
- Will-O-Wisp
- Taunt

Rotom-Wash @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
Level: 50
EVs: 76 HP / 20 Def / 198 SpA / 4 SpD / 210 Spe
Modest Nature
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Trick
- Volt Switch
- Hydro Pump

Gengar @ Gengarite
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Shadow Ball
- Sludge Bomb
- Icy Wind
- Destiny Bond

I'm mixing my squads up and paying a bit more attention at Team Preview. I'm not sure if this is at all optimal but the weaknesses seem patched up a little at least.

A couple of replays

Hide

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/battlespotsingles-364093850
This one was close
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/battlespotsingles-364095295
This one has at least one stunning misplay on my part

A couple of losses
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/battlespotsingles-364560725

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/battlespotsingles-364564647

I feel pretty vulnerable to Thundurus still as well as Mega Gengar.

 

[Omastar68]

Hippowdon @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP / 124 Def / 132 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Slack Off
- Yawn
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake

Lucario-Mega (F) @ Lucarionite
Ability: Adaptability
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP/ 252 SpA/ 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Flash Cannon
- Nasty Plot
- Vacuum Wave
- Aura Sphere

Dragonite (F) @ Lum Berry
Ability: Multiscale
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Outrage
- Extreme Speed
- Fire Punch

Mawile @ Mawilite
Ability: Huge Power
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def/ 252 Atk /
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Iron Head
- Play Rough
- Sucker Punch

Porygon2 @ Eviolite
Ability: Trace
Level: 50
EVs: 244 HP / 252 Def / 12 SpA
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Ice Beam
- Foul Play
- Recover
- Trick Room

Zapdos @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
- Roost
- Thunderbolt
- Heat Wave
- Toxic
[/hide]

 

[a0161613]

So I guess I'm going to use my bump now. I'm still looking to set in stone the three newest members of this team. Rotom and Gengar work well but I'm unsure about this Talonflame set. Not sure if Sp Def is for me. I'm going to try a couple of more standard options including an all out Life Orb attacker set (plus possibly itemless Acrobatics).

Even Trick Scarf Rotom W seems not to be working as well as I think it should right now even though I like its' flexibility.

The other concern is having a second mega that is vulnerable to Ground attacks. It's part of the reason why I prefer non mega Gengar, another reason why Rotom works is for Levitate.

Oh and my rating has slipped considerably to around 1200.

 

[Omastar68]

So I guess I'm going to use my bump now. I'm still looking to set in stone the three newest members of this team. Rotom and Gengar work well but I'm unsure about this Talonflame set. Not sure if Sp Def is for me. I'm going to try a couple of more standard options including an all out Life Orb attacker set (plus possibly itemless Acrobatics).

Even Trick Scarf Rotom W seems not to be working as well as I think it should right now even though I like its' flexibility.

The other concern is having a second mega that is vulnerable to Ground attacks. It's part of the reason why I prefer non mega Gengar, another reason why Rotom works is for Levitate.

Oh and my rating has slipped considerably to around 1200.

That's PS right? Even so that's kinda icky, no offense.

Looking at Lucario's stats, most common teammate to typically be a mega is Gengar, so in theory that should be working. Just don't always mega right away to keep Levitate in some cases.

Talonflame is also a really common teammate, but I don't think you want specially defensive. With SR support offensive ones can get more OHKOs, so I think one of those would be good. LO or CB prolly.

You have one 2x grass weakness in Hippo, but everything else resists Rotom-W's sole weakness, so it should be working. That said, I've used Rotom-W on reams where the grass weakness was very much covered too. It's ok, but even neutral hits can do a lot , so don't be fooled by only one weakness. It's not walking much.

Scarf seems good with Trick, tho naturally such a Rotom is quite frail. Scarf messes up a lot of mons, namely Suicune and Aegi(at least those are the two I think of. Obviously there's also anything Eviolite, and walls like Cress or Hippo.) Neither of those are very nice to you, and your Cress match up doesn't seem that great.

You mentioned you Trick the wrong mons a lot. What stuff do you Trick that backfires? You really wanna save that Scarf for when you can Trick it on something that hates it the most. Your Rotom has Volt Switch right? Mainly so you can do something to foes if you lead with it but don't want to Trick and they resist Hydro Pump or w/e.

57.35% of Rotom-W are Modest. That's way more than the percentage that are Scarf, so I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess that most if not all Scarfed ones are Modest? Is yours too? High Spe Scarf Rotoms outspeed up to max Spe 135s which seems plenty. Then you also have some power.

I have no idea if this is gonna help at all, but at least it can't hurt:)

 

[cant say]

So I've already talked about this on PS! but I'm not a fan of the "two cores in 1 team, choose the best at team preview" approach. A lot of people try this (even myself) since it's tempting with the whole bring six, pick 3 thing, but it just doesn't work in practice. The strongest thing about team preview in 3v3 is unpredictability, and going with two separate cores just makes team preview easier for your opponent. If their team is good against HipDragLuc, they'll expect the other core and plan accordingly. If their team isn't good against it, they still have the advantage of knowing exactly what you'll bring and be able to formulate a game plan against you. Maybe there is another core that can play alongside HipDragLuc that I'm blanking on which will make it harder for your opponents to plan at team preview, but M-Maw + TR is such a different playstyle, your only option at the moment is one or the other....

I think you need to look at the HippoDragLuc core and ask:

1. What beats this core?
2. Why aren't I choosing it at team preview?

The threats I'm thinking of straight away are Breloom, Sylveon, Greninja and Serperior, possibly Thundurus and maybe Aegislash. Apart from Breloom, p2 + M-Maw seem to deal with those quite well, so I'm not sure where exactly you're having trouble. Are there opposing cores that have been giving you trouble? I watched your replays, it seems as though you're just misplaying, which you'll stop doing as you get better. It's a shame that you don't have any replays of you using HippoDragLuc so we can see what you're having trouble with.

As for simple changes, I would suggest using Specially Defensive Talonflame over Zapdos to deal with all those threats (bar Thundurus and Greninja) that I mentioned above. Use this set:

Talonflame @ Lum Berry
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 236 HP / 4 Atk / 44 Def / 188 SpD / 36 Spe
Careful Nature
- Brave Bird
- Will-O-Wisp
- Taunt
- Roost

I saw you were using it in your replays but it isn't in your OP. Each time you chose the wrong move at some stage (such as not Roosting against that Mega Zam when you were at +1) and not Taunting that Mega Mawile (it was either going to SD, hit with a weak move, or switch). So I think just learning how to use it best will help you a lot. This obviously means that Dragonite can't use the Lum anymore, so I'd recommend changing to Choice Band Dragonite and see how that works. If you don't like it then you can go back to Maranga on Talon, but Lum is so good for switching on Breloom and random Toxic users.

As for Porygon2, I think that Trick Room conflicts with the rest of your team too much. I think Thunder Wave is a good idea since it still helps Mawile, and also the rest of your team too. However, if you are gonna use a T wave user instead of Trick Room, I would suggest instead changing p2 to SwagPlay Klefki. A bit gimmicky, but it gives your Mawile the T wave support it needs, while also trolling the threats I listed that Talon can't beat (ie: Mega Gengar, Thundurus and Greninja). Obviously this means you might lose some games because you swaggered their physical attacker and they ended up sweeping you, but the odds are in your favor to win so just play more games and win them to make up for it :^)

I have a fair few other ideas but they would be changing this team too much so I'll leave them out of this thread.

OK no more posting until Hula interviews me for 3k

 

[a0161613]

So this is the current team that I've been using. I don't think the current problems are with the team necessarily. I feel that this is vulnerable to Fighting types, Blaziken in particular as well as Garchomp & Conkeldur because it usually knows Ice Punch. I'm thinking that the obvious change from Klefki to Thundurus would help but I'm a little reluctant because of the lack of HP Flying on cart (stupid reason I know). I'm also not sure about the item on Tyranitar, I feel like Air Balloon could be an option.

My current PS ranking is sliding up and down around 1300, currently 1240 but I'm currently playing the same people.

Hide

Lucario @ Lucarionite
Ability: Justified
Level: 50
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Flash Cannon
- Nasty Plot
- Vacuum Wave
- Dark Pulse

Tyranitar @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Stream
Level: 50
EVs: 124 HP / 132 Def / 252 Spe
Impish Nature
- Taunt
- Stealth Rock
- Rock Tomb
- Foul Play

Dragonite (F) @ Lum Berry
Ability: Multiscale
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Fire Punch
- Outrage
- Extreme Speed
- Dragon Dance

Klefki @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Swagger
- Foul Play
- Thunder Wave
- Substitute

Serperior @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Contrary
Level: 50
EVs: 116 HP / 220 Def / 172 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Leaf Storm
- Glare
- Giga Drain
- Reflect

Charizard-Mega-Y @ Charizardite Y
Ability: Blaze
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 4 Def / 248 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Tailwind
- Fire Blast
- Solar Beam
- Air Slash

I've been hacked with things like Fire Blast missing twice in sun and unfortunate attacks despite parafusion. And I'm ignoring the Drifblim Minimise Baton Pass strategy that had 2-1 record on me tonight.

surgical_tubing did beat me in a tournament match though, thanks mainly to his Imposter Ditto

The main aim was always to get this on-cart & ladder there. I can't help but feel that I'm still missing something that would help me get to that position.

Any thoughts?

 

[Omastar68]

Why'd you get rid of Hippo for TTar? I mean since its part of the core you started with and all. And I'm not sure what your TTar is trying to do. Why 252 Spe with Rock Tomb? Taunt also seems kinda weird. I think you might want t-wave and Ice Beam. That'd take care of your Spe concerns, tho it might be excessive with another Waver and Glare Serp. Ice Beam gives you valuable ice coverage which you currently lack.

I don't really like Tailwind in singles, and you also have a lot of Spe control already. EQ is an option for Char Y, since you really hate Heatran bar Lucario, and lack ground coverage. Something besides Air Slash could also be a good idea.nAS is rarely run on Char Y due to the gross power of its fire moves. Maybe use Overheat, and then Flame thrower over Fire Blast. Also, the SpA EVs indicate an even IV, I.e. imperfect. Why's that? If you can breed for flawless that'd really help you.

I think Klefki should go. You have plenty of Spe control, and it compounds weaknesses to Fire and Ground while being hopeless against fighting types if you don't run a fairy STAB.

Thundurus could work, I think a physically bulky one considering what you're weak to. And duz no HP Flying even matter? Don't they typically like ice?

 

[a0161613]

Why'd you get rid of Hippo for TTar? I mean since its part of the core you started with and all. And I'm not sure what your TTar is trying to do. Why 252 Spe with Rock Tomb? Taunt also seems kinda weird. I think you might want t-wave and Ice Beam. That'd take care of your Spe concerns, tho it might be excessive with another Waver and Glare Serp. Ice Beam gives you valuable ice coverage which you currently lack.

I don't really like Tailwind in singles, and you also have a lot of Spe control already. EQ is an option for Char Y, since you really hate Heatran bar Lucario, and lack ground coverage. Something besides Air Slash could also be a good idea.nAS is rarely run on Char Y due to the gross power of its fire moves. Maybe use Overheat, and then Flame thrower over Fire Blast. Also, the SpA EVs indicate an even IV, I.e. imperfect. Why's that? If you can breed for flawless that'd really help you.

I think Klefki should go. You have plenty of Spe control, and it compounds weaknesses to Fire and Ground while being hopeless against fighting types if you don't run a fairy STAB.

Thundurus could work, I think a physically bulky one considering what you're weak to. And duz no HP Flying even matter? Don't they typically like ice?

The Ttar set was suggested by cant say. The Char EVs were for HP Ground which I did change after copying the importable.

 

[cant say]

Swap the Leftovers and Sitrus Berry on Tyranitar and Klefki. Give Char-Y Earthquake and Hiddon Power Ice or Dragon Pulse over Tailwind and Air Slash

 

[a0161613]

So after a chat with 6tennis Klefki is out for Thundurus. He also suggested Hippo back in for Ttar which I'm trying out because using Ttar as a lead was a struggle to the point where I thought of putting a sash on it.

Thundurus has the bulk and power that Klef doesn't. I've put Knock Off on it with is a nice touch.

My rating is still pretty poor. I'm beginning to think it's how I'm playing. I'm going to take a step back, take it back to HipDraLuc and put Thundurus in. The best run I had with this was with Swagplay but I need to see if Thundy works without it.

 

[Omastar68]

DNite, Serp, Hippo, and Thund give a pretty big ice weakness, with only one resist which is quite frail.

I feel like specially defensive Thund would be extremely threatening for your team, with only DNite being an answer to it, and only if Lum and Multiscale are intact, or Thund lacks t-wave and/ or HP Ice. Other variants of Thund aren't very kind either, but less bad.

I'm wondering about the purpose of Knock Off on Thund. It's a nice move, and I've thought about running it on Thund before, but it's not very strong at all with a -Atk nature, which is prolly what you're running. That means you should only run Knock Off if you need the utility. What item dependent mons do you have trouble with? I guess you're not that great against Porygon2.

Also, I think I like Earthquake on DNite since you have fire coverage with Zard.

 

[a0161613]

DNite, Serp, Hippo, and Thund give a pretty big ice weakness, with only one resist which is quite frail.

I feel like specially defensive Thund would be extremely threatening for your team, with only DNite being an answer to it, and only if Lum and Multiscale are intact, or Thund lacks t-wave and/ or HP Ice. Other variants of Thund aren't very kind either, but less bad.

I'm wondering about the purpose of Knock Off on Thund. It's a nice move, and I've thought about running it on Thund before, but it's not very strong at all with a -Atk nature, which is prolly what you're running. That means you should only run Knock Off if you need the utility. What item dependent mons do you have trouble with? I guess you're not that great against Porygon2.

Also, I think I like Earthquake on DNite since you have fire coverage with Zard.

Knock Off is pure utility. No power needed, I'd rather that than Focus Miss because I can follow up with Taunt or Twave. It almost always survives a hit using the analysis spread.

I'm kind of set on Fire Punch with no Charizard on the team currently.

It's more than just the ice weakness although it's an undeniable factor. There felt like no synergy with Tar there. I miss Hippos ability to force switches..The general frailty of the Megas bothers me but that's got more to with how I'm playing. Char Y works brilliantly to an extent and made we realise how slow Lucario is as well as being frail against certain types.

I'm finding this all too difficult to explain but in my opinion it's clearly an issue with Team Preview.

I'll put up some replays tomorrow. Maybe PS team builder will let me make proper changes then.