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Moltres Hidden Power
- Thread starter gabriel
- Start date
I've been using HP Electric on Scarf Moltres for a while now. It takes a big 85% out of Bulky Gyarados, which works well for me. Most (actually, all) leave Gyarados in on Moltres, especially if it's Dragon Danced once. But if you have other ways of dealing with Gyarados (read: Slowbro), then HP Ice is definitely the way to go, for the exact reason you said of being able to outspeed the non-scarfed Dragons and OHKO them. I wouldn't rely on Moltres as a Gyarados counter anyway for obvious reasons.
I voted HP ice.
Why would you need to counter TTar? Why would you even stay in? Its going to kill you first.
Dont focus on countering everything, focus on countering things you CAN. Let your team deal with the rest
Why would you need to counter TTar? Why would you even stay in? Its going to kill you first.
Dont focus on countering everything, focus on countering things you CAN. Let your team deal with the rest
None of these Hidden Power types let Moltres "counter" anything. HP Ice doesn't mean he can switch into boosted Dragon attacks and live, Electric doesn't mean Gyarados miraculously fails to KO you with Waterfall or Stone Edge, Grass doesn't stop Swampert killing you with Stone Edge or Hydro Pump, etc. (you get the idea...hopefully). Hidden Power is meant to hit Moltres' counters when they switch in.
The only issue I have with HP Electric on Scarf sets is that it only really helps with two Pokemon - Gyarados and Starmie and doesn't OHKO either of them most of the time. It doesn't really threaten Milotic and Suicune enough to make them run. Ice on the other hand can OHKO Garchomp and Salamence, I just found it far more useful on Scarf sets.
Seriously, why are people putting HP grass?
I don't get it.
Best? Maybe Ice.
Like TOY said, you don't have to counter everything. What is moltres trying to kill? What will he stay in against? I say a really good choice to consider for HP is electric, because it's pretty effective at making sure he won't set up and get a switch, and he's incredibly common lately.
But that's just what I like.
I like the odds for HP fighting though, great coverage and it actually *does* threaten Tyranitar for a OHKO later in the game.
I don't get it.
Best? Maybe Ice.
Like TOY said, you don't have to counter everything. What is moltres trying to kill? What will he stay in against? I say a really good choice to consider for HP is electric, because it's pretty effective at making sure he won't set up and get a switch, and he's incredibly common lately.
But that's just what I like.
I like the odds for HP fighting though, great coverage and it actually *does* threaten Tyranitar for a OHKO later in the game.
I think that HP Ice is the best in most situations, simply because there's so much to hit with it in D/P, with the advent of Garchomp and increases in power to stuff like Salamence. HPs like Ground and Water don't even do that much to Pokemon like Tyranitar.
Moltres IMO can work fine with:
W-o-W - Cripples TTar, so he's history anyway
Air slash - Air slash and HP fight cover what F-thrower can, and more.
HP fight - For heatran and 'Perior mainly.
Uturn/Morning sun/Roost. - Roost gives EQ weakness, but takes away 2x rock. U-turn can scout, Morning Sun for a sunny day team.
Gyarados, Garchomp, phys. Mence, rhyperior and TTar are gonna be screwed by switching into W-o-W anyway, and so they're not exactly gonna do too much, and with a roost to negate stone edge and as a surprise heal, they're disadvantaged. Gyara is no counter in a sunny day team, with moltres' ability to uber-heal with morning sun, the sun itself and being W-o-W'd. Rhyperior is very slow, and it's sp.def can be very low. Garchomp won't like being burned, and a counter can be u-turned to anyway. Them only reliable counter to this seems to be Specsmence, who can eat W-o-W to an extent, and probably OHKO with draco meteor.
Ice seems redundant to me, as a W-o-W seems to cripple what ice can deal damage to, and fighting can hit Hetran if the bad happens and he comes in on the W-o-W.
W-o-W - Cripples TTar, so he's history anyway
Air slash - Air slash and HP fight cover what F-thrower can, and more.
HP fight - For heatran and 'Perior mainly.
Uturn/Morning sun/Roost. - Roost gives EQ weakness, but takes away 2x rock. U-turn can scout, Morning Sun for a sunny day team.
Gyarados, Garchomp, phys. Mence, rhyperior and TTar are gonna be screwed by switching into W-o-W anyway, and so they're not exactly gonna do too much, and with a roost to negate stone edge and as a surprise heal, they're disadvantaged. Gyara is no counter in a sunny day team, with moltres' ability to uber-heal with morning sun, the sun itself and being W-o-W'd. Rhyperior is very slow, and it's sp.def can be very low. Garchomp won't like being burned, and a counter can be u-turned to anyway. Them only reliable counter to this seems to be Specsmence, who can eat W-o-W to an extent, and probably OHKO with draco meteor.
Ice seems redundant to me, as a W-o-W seems to cripple what ice can deal damage to, and fighting can hit Hetran if the bad happens and he comes in on the W-o-W.
Yes I read the other thread, and did you notice not one of the list of calculations had a guaranteed 100% OHKO on tar? Don't bring Spikes/SR into the equation, as with raw damage, Moltres can only beat even a no HP Tar a small % of the time. I don't want to be forced to use Specs Moltres either, as imo it wastes WOW and the type coverage.
Thunderpup said:
SR is really commom and easy to setup so yes, I'll bring it into the equation.
Btw, if you're using a Specs set, it mean you'll have to predict Ttar on the switch so you have a chance to 2KO it if somehow you don't OHKO.
And as said before, you can still hit everything not named Bulky Waters and Blissey hard on the switch with Air Slash and Overheat, so why not getting rid of Ttar and easily who can't be handled by these moves?
And you're right Obi, Overheat does more to Empoleon than any Hidden Power.
I voted Ground myself, because I like Sunny-Beam Moltres myself, and Ground hits the Sunny-Beam set's worst enemy hard: Heatran. The only problem with that is that Salamence is completely immune to Ground while resisting Grass x4 and Fire x2.
I know that, that's exactly chose HP Ground. And I do, it's pretty awesome.