NOC Paranoia Mafia Game Over - Mafia Wins

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Was asked this in PM by someone, not to accomodate anyone's schedule but my own, 'tis demo season at work. I would not anticipate deadline being called at 6:45 PM exactly. Deadline will be called then, but expect update to be up by 7:00 PM/7:30 ish. Votes will be called at 6:45 PM EDT. Not doing plurhammer because I won't have access to a computer that lets me easily scroll through XF threads and count votes.
 
pancake said:
I explained my reads, and I have explained my current annoyance with you to the best of my ability. I do not know why this qualifies as 0 basis; it's clear that not only mine, but YOUR argument has basis. I get your argument, but I believe it is getting more and more invalid and is turning into just an attack on me rather than an argument. I was saying that I didn't want you to make posts that just said "lol" and you suddenly all-out attack me? Like what the fuck, tbh.

Also would you notice that I've kept my vote on Flyhn this WHOLE TIME, noting that I am not scumreading you persay, just annoyed with you and I'd like concrete reads instead of "lol"

Also what is an SvS Thetwinmasters, I normally know mafia terms but I don't get these acronyms x_X
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Hawkie said:
Former Hope. His posts at the start of the day were just trying to generate discussion like any good town/mafia member would. But notice how passive he was in regards to dishing out reads unless they were town ones. He reacted negatively to me lynching Aubisio and this IMO is for one of 2 reasons:

A. Aubisio is one of his scum partners and he was trying to steer away from him being lynched without making it obvious he was doing so.
B. He saw reacting this way to me as a good way to earn himself towncred by "following a lead" and trying to paint me as scum.

Then after 2 players presented reads on him and lynched him, he decided we weren't worthy of a reply and tried to downplay the entire situation by just trying to push his "inactivity lynch" on Betathunder which imo town would not do. Any towny would at least respond to the things me & Haruno said, his reaction to this by totally ignoring it can only mean he is scum in my opinion. This is a case of self-preservation as he immediately tried to shift the current lynchtarget from himself to Betathunder in such a weird way, which I think is 100% not town.
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and this post you ignored???
Hawkie said:
2v12 seems townbiased and in a regular game i'd be inclined to think there were 3 terrorists since 3v11 is a lot more balanced but with the whole "endgame" vote thing 2 scum could be a possibility.

If it's a 2 scum team i'd probably lean Former Hope + Pancake right now, gave all my reasoning on former previously but i scumread pancake because in his shallow af reads post he clearly defended former with reasoning that made no sense whatsoever and then proceeded to immediately try to downplay my posts the same way former did trying to make it look like i was being stupid and my opinion shouldn't be taken into consideration :)
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ur argument is invalid.
 
pancake said:
I would like to point out how void the posts that Dentricos is making are, they literally say nothing / really obvious things while showing some sort of attempt to contribute. I would say this is scummy but this is kind of like he was in neighborhood too. So is that just the way he is? Also the Dentricos "slip" wasn't actually a slip, do you guys even mafia lol

Hawk was acting a little weird before but tbh he's back to normal hawkie now, I liked his contributions somewhat at first, but then his most recent posts have half-bw-former half-dumb shit, which isn't great.

I like some of Texas's contributions, but tbh I think he just made that really long post because people think long posts make them look town, which isn't necessarily true (lol); still slight townread, but not a ton

Former Hope was being really defensive but then he stopped, so I really don't think he should be the person who we lynch today, and he made his priorities (although dumb) clear. I like that.

Walrein is hard to read, as usual... slight town, gut read
Blazade is null, I'm frankly confused by his posts
Aubisio should be more active
I don't like Flyhn's read post on page 5 because
because setup spec is contributing, depending on what it is but it still is contributing. It's also better than null reads (cwl).
Josh is slight town, he needs to explain what he is doing more, especially why he is lynching someone
Betathunder null, contribute more you idling nerd

I'll also post my opinions on the votecount once Steven posts it!
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hi i'd like some concrete reads instead of shitty surface observation reads with 0 depth

thanks
 
So, to start off. I think there are some in this game that are still playing this like a normal mafia game and haven't caught on yet to reading between the lines. This game is all about, much as the title says, paranoia. Between the lack of any PR's, the lack of information about how many times the scum can kill (limited vs unlimited) and hell, the intention inferring that there might not be any scum at all. This game is all about Town v Town and while it might be logical to assume there's a 'normal' amount of killers. It is obvious that the host is trying to get us paranoid, so while there might very well be 3 or so killers, there could easily be 2, 1 or even 0. In fact I could see very easily that this game's intention was to see how paranoid we would be around one another when there were no actual mafia and we all end up losing when we kill a certain number of ourselves.

Even so, there are normal conventions which get thrown out the window, for instance, I really doubt that the terrorists will kill tonight. Not only might they have limited shots, but for them to kill tonight means they prove they exist. However, should they not kill, it means we get to keep our better players such as Twin/Blaze/Walrein.

Anyhow, to that end I feel like Hawkie really either needs to change up their style of be lynched. Right now their style seems very very similar to Twins in the basic game, which was to find a target and aggressively see everything they do as scummy and ignore the evidence that would indicate otherwise. The Abuisio lynch for instance, Hawkie lynched and didn't listen to anyone who stated that Abuisio was just being Abuisio, in fact they tunneled that lynch hard until moving to me. Now I originally scumread Hawkie because of the excessive tunneling on Abuisio, however now with his excessive, aggressive tunneling on me I'm seeing it more as playstyle than any alignment indicator. However, in a game when it's all about paranoia and town v town, Hawkie's current playstyle is really the worst possible thing that town can have. So truly, as much as I'm null reading Hawkie's alignment right now, I think they either need to change their playstyle or be lynched before it can continue.
 
i like how u assume i'll play like this the full game rather than just D1 where pressuring people and really getting discussion going is the best thing u can do

i still scumread u since that post was 2 paragraphs of observation and 1 paragraph of trying to discredit me, my avatar sums up my feelings towards it perfectly
 
Fair enough. Unvote vote Hawkie Personally, I don't really care which of Hawkie/Beta get lynched. Hawkie for the reasons above or Beta just for inactivity.

Also I think your good at NOC's mostly just because you seem very experienced tbh.
 
ok i finished
  1. Dentricos
  2. Haruno
  3. Blazade
    #35: super townie and bringing up a good point, trying to figure out how many scum are there (or just agreeing upon a single number at least) is probably going to be a bad strategy for town so its not worth speculating about the scum/town ratio.
  4. Josh
    #196: tfw you setup spec the one thing that is bad for town to spec about
  5. Hawkie
    #210: 10/10 post, no sarcasm
    #268: is terrible reasoning and just seems like an arbitrary way to link two people you find scummy
  6. rssp1
  7. Thetwinmasters
    #249: a good point and makes me inclined to think that twin is town since he could have framed hawkie w/ that reasoning if he wanted to in a future day. He probably should have waited till the next day to point that out if it was brought up as a point of discussion though, imo.
  8. Walrein
  9. Former Hope
    #30: Good attempt to get us out of shitposting area, even though its setup spec which a lot of people don't like its a towny move to do so imo
    #58: Lynching inactives rarely works and is almost always a bad town strategy unless every single active member is someone who you don't want to lynch
    #202: Still following the reasoning above (#58) which is pretty bad, also seems to be fairly one-track oriented (as in only going for a single thing)
  10. Betathunder
    #62: smh
  11. Aubisio
  12. Flyhn
  13. pancake
    #193: while lol about activity i feel like there is a valid point here, hawkie hasnt (at least by page 8) done much aside from combat the people that find him suspicious/that he finds suspicious. Then again, not really sure if that's scummy since thats what I tend to do too.
    #251: tfw tunnel
  14. Texas Cloverleaf
    #60: see my response to Former's #58: This kind of thinking is almost always harmful, you want to lynch someone based on their current traits, not how well they performed in previous games (or i'd just lynch myself for being a lazy ass regardless of alignment all the time)
    #188: I loled
    #202: why didnt you get off betathunder here if you were inclined to do so
Random other notes:

Lol i missed like the entirety of all the end of page 2 discussion where people talk about how after a certain amount of townies are lynched we lose, makes more sense as to why the vote to end game option is a thing now
Seeing a couple of comments on how hawkie is fairly aggro, worth mentioning that the only forum game I played with him when he was scum was one where he lurked a ton, aside from that his posting/playing style tends to be as aggro as it is right now regardless of alignment so I don't think that argument is one that can be used against him (if that's used against him later)
I dont understand why former just ignored the people voting him + their reasoning but ok


overall I like the general content of dentricos' posts and I feel like he's towny, Blazade/twin/Walrein/Hawkie all seem town to me as well just based on the content of their post styles and how they've responded to others (strongest -> weakest is left -> right in those 4)

Texas's posts seem to be fluctuating between decently town and somewhat scummy so i'm not sure what to make of him

Flyhn/Haruno/Betathunder/Josh haven't posted enough for me to get a real feel on any of them, what they've posted has generally been townie (flyhn/haruno) or completely null (betathunder/josh) to me

aubisio has disappeared rip in pieces

I don't really like how former's pursuing only one thing (lynching inactives) since that's almost always a bad idea
the reasoning for lynching hawkie is also bad

dont know what to make of pancake but I don't really like the overall content of his posts, he seems scummy to me.

I don't think i missed anyone
 
Playing a a game with a setup like this with a full roster of excellent players means scum wins guaranteed without dumb luck. What we are relying in is a scum fucking up in a game where it's pretty hard to do so, and for that to happen 3(?) times.

This leads me to two conclusions. I asked about roles being randomly assigned for a strategic reason. The host confirmed itt meaning it's information we can use. The first is that at least one of twin haruno and walrein are scum because they are "unreadable" or w/e. I've never played with walrein before but twin has acted the same in both other nocs we played together. Haruno has been scum in one and looks like scum to me in both this and the last one, where I got him mislynched easily as a scum. Walrein seems like twin although a townier version? There's a reason shubaka always scum reads twin rofl. The second is that none are scum because the game wouldn't be particularly winnable for town because it'd just be random lynching at that point. I would like to speculate twin has been town the last two nocs we've played together so by law of averages he has a higher chance of being scum, I get that speculation like that isn't popular but at this point we have no roles to find scum so we've gotta get creative. That's my basis for suspecting twin and thinking no more than one of haruno walrein twin are scum.

In the same vein betathunder is probably town because he would probably be posting more if he was scum, I'd imagine he'd ask for help in the scum chat and they'd tell him stuff to post since idlers are easy lynches. Hed also be able to fake more reads. This is his first game AND he doesn't play any other kind of mafia so I'm pretty sure he's just flustered and doesn't know what to do because his only mafia type thing of any kind is a small bit of tos with me which has no vanilla period (save roles that become useless lol).


All I can say is lol I'd have loved to be scum this game and get an easy 3 win streak but now it's harder.

Fine lynching flyhn hawkie or fh at this point, you guys have good points against hawkie and fh, and I still don't trust flyhn.
 
Hawkie said:
Former Hope. His posts at the start of the day were just trying to generate discussion like any good town/mafia member would. But notice how passive he was in regards to dishing out reads unless they were town ones. He reacted negatively to me lynching Aubisio and this IMO is for one of 2 reasons:

A. Aubisio is one of his scum partners and he was trying to steer away from him being lynched without making it obvious he was doing so.
B. He saw reacting this way to me as a good way to earn himself towncred by "following a lead" and trying to paint me as scum.

Then after 2 players presented reads on him and lynched him, he decided we weren't worthy of a reply and tried to downplay the entire situation by just trying to push his "inactivity lynch" on Betathunder which imo town would not do. Any towny would at least respond to the things me & Haruno said, his reaction to this by totally ignoring it can only mean he is scum in my opinion. This is a case of self-preservation as he immediately tried to shift the current lynchtarget from himself to Betathunder in such a weird way, which I think is 100% not town.
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To start off, my usual NOC scum read really comes down to odds and seeing how many people I can count as 'probably town'. However, in this game we aren't at a point where someone 'has to be scum' and I am agreeing with a lot of blazades posts in that I could see most people currently posting as town.

However, there's absolutely no way I'd be defending Aubisio as a scum partner. As someone pointed out (I forget who now), mafia don't need to maintain advantage. There's 0 reason why any mafia wouldn't throw another mafia under the bus in this game, all they need to do is live. However, like basically everyone has said to you, Aubisio just really tends to play that way and as thus, their posts were non indicative at that point (to me at least). However you tunneling on that lynch was still scummy and until you started doing the same to me, I thought it was aliegnment indicative for a nooby mafia (at that point in the game I didn't know how much experience you had).

As for not responding, honestly it's mildly selfish. I was on strictly mobile at that point and I truly really really hate making substantial posts through texting and tried to move the discussion away so I could be lazy :(. Though I'm more than happy to answer questions now
 
how was tunneling on that lynch scummy?

as stated like half a billion times i was applying pressure on Aubisio because something was "off" about him to me

what's the best way to apply pressure? tunneling

i stand by my tunneling as it created a shit ton of D1 discussion/interactions/proper posts, which was my original intention and is what you wanted, right?
 
It's wrong to say maf doesn't need to defend each other at least a little. Even if only one is needed to win having more is absolutely more helpful. I don't like that logic. Last game we killed cop and all that shit and while it was called early I had no intention to lynch Gale the next day if I didn't have to despite bringing him up (blazade and Dentricos can confirm I brought him up to Empoof) because it is simply fluff. Even though at that point I probably could have won on my own I still would do what I could to keep Asek and Gale alive because 3 is simply better than 1, if only for cover if you slip at the bare worst.

Tldr of boring irrelevant paragraph: don't assume maf won't defend each other rofl
 
Doing something "bold" D1 is a great way to drum up activity and really get the game off the bat, i use that strategy frequently in ps mafia and wondered if it would have the same effect here, it did.
 
Josh In Bulletproof I told my idlers to idle but he's your friend so I'm willing to take that meta into consideration.

A lot of that logic was real swanky because EVEN IF you accept most of that PoE you also assume Snype has the same opinions about the players that you do. Lol

Baiting a host to answer a question of yours publicly to look townier is something you have done as scum, so I'm still not getting any vibes either way.

I don't see an agenda in that big post but your scumgame is self preservation as you've said.
 
I literally have posted my fucking reads already, but ok

rssp1 isn't really contributing anything himself, so as hypocritical as it sounds, I'd like some reads from him. rssp1
Let's get some more idling fucks out of the way: Aubisio, Betathunder. All null. Haruno hasn't really contributed either.

I really don't agree with the players who are currently lynching Betathunder under the assumption that because he has refused to contribute, that means he is scum. Let's think about this for a second: if you were a new player and you were scum, would you simply do nothing, assuming you have the understanding of the basics of the game? Of course not! It's clear that good contributions = good townie, so if you wanted to look more townie, you would contribute more. NOT do nothing. In fact, I would say that a new player doing nothing is more likely a TOWNIE because they don't feel like they can influence the lynch. Not a town read on Betathunder; just telling people to get off of him. He's certainly not Day 1 Lynch material, if anything. As to you Betathunder, I encourage you to come out and say who you think is town and who you think is a terrorist and why. If you are having trouble coming up with reads (assuming you are town), I suggest looking at some of the other NOCs that Smogon has hosted. Although they are not perfect, if you see who is town, you get a general look of what people can read each other for and what is not good reasoning.

Looking back at it, I digress; Hawkie's argument is valid. I don't agree with his scumread on me because his reads are not really too detailed themselves... he has spent most of his "scumread" on me explaining it in like a sentence and then viciously attacking me for no reason.

I don't scumread him, though. This looks like town-mafia-game Hawk >.>

Walrein is difficult to read, and his reads on page five really don't help this because he had even less to say about his reads. In general I think he has been pretty helpful to town and is against the dumb lynch on Betathunder, so I read him town, a little.

While actually reading the content of Texas' read post on Page 5, I realize that it is some pretty decent content. After that, his content was fine tbh. Slight town, just a guy read. Also, I really like the interesting insight that Josh included in his most recent post, even though I disagree with the first sentence. His analytical playstle differs from that of the bulletproof NOC in which he was mafia, which I like.

Now I don't have much time so:
Unvote Vote Blazade

I don't like the current defensive posts of both Former and Blazade. However, I also don't like the way Blazade is formatting his posts; "a little bit of this, a little bit of that" without really diving into any issues. As a result, I scumread him more than I scumread Flyhn after Flyhn's appeal and I have changed my vote to signify this.

If these aren't detailed reads, go away. I'm not doing this just for the sake of posting reads though. I want y'all to know my opinions.

Edit: Good night.
 
It's not meant to be fact but I rly have nothing better to go off, I'm aware there's a ton of highly questionable logic

PoE?

Baiting hosts is fun n.n the more info you get out of them the better, and the roles being randomized vs selected does mean something.

And yea betathunder is my friend so I guess I have the advantage of reading him as a person and I don't think he'd post like this as scum. This is also based on how he plays tos.
 
I love all the white knighting this Beta wagon is getting. From Josh I understand, but you guys DO realize that the too obvious argument to be scum argument doesn't work on a newbie right? Many of the scum, especially new scum in Basic, Bulletproof, and to a lesser extent Neighborhood didn't demonstrate even close to acceptable levels of arguments or activity even with experienced players helping them.

It is still far enough from deadline that the lynch is easily changed and when everyone just tells you to ignore someone when they aren't responding to pressure at all what motivation do they have to get off their ass? What ability do we have to snuff them out in the night with all VTs?

There are many ways for newer players to respond and I want to see Beta's.
 
pancake there are many players kn which I don't have a firm read, it's true, but I believe I've taken a firm stance on all of the "issues". What in particular do you want my opinion on?
 
Former Hope said:
So, to start off. I think there are some in this game that are still playing this like a normal mafia game and haven't caught on yet to reading between the lines. This game is all about, much as the title says, paranoia. Between the lack of any PR's, the lack of information about how many times the scum can kill (limited vs unlimited) and hell, the intention inferring that there might not be any scum at all. This game is all about Town v Town and while it might be logical to assume there's a 'normal' amount of killers. It is obvious that the host is trying to get us paranoid, so while there might very well be 3 or so killers, there could easily be 2, 1 or even 0. In fact I could see very easily that this game's intention was to see how paranoid we would be around one another when there were no actual mafia and we all end up losing when we kill a certain number of ourselves.

Even so, there are normal conventions which get thrown out the window, for instance, I really doubt that the terrorists will kill tonight. Not only might they have limited shots, but for them to kill tonight means they prove they exist. However, should they not kill, it means we get to keep our better players such as Twin/Blaze/Walrein.

Anyhow, to that end I feel like Hawkie really either needs to change up their style of be lynched. Right now their style seems very very similar to Twins in the basic game, which was to find a target and aggressively see everything they do as scummy and ignore the evidence that would indicate otherwise. The Abuisio lynch for instance, Hawkie lynched and didn't listen to anyone who stated that Abuisio was just being Abuisio, in fact they tunneled that lynch hard until moving to me. Now I originally scumread Hawkie because of the excessive tunneling on Abuisio, however now with his excessive, aggressive tunneling on me I'm seeing it more as playstyle than any alignment indicator. However, in a game when it's all about paranoia and town v town, Hawkie's current playstyle is really the worst possible thing that town can have. So truly, as much as I'm null reading Hawkie's alignment right now, I think they either need to change their playstyle or be lynched before it can continue.
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Who is this Abuisio of which you speak? ;)
 
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