Baton Pass. Yes, again.

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This still feels like an overreaction. Maybe banning Baton Pass Speed probably needs to happen if there's so much disagreement (and I'd rather have one unified Baton Pass Clause than continue to let NU be special snowflakes), but I don't really think nuking BP is necessary.
 
NU isn't the only "special snowflake" considering UU has more recently adopted their own take on the clause.

Considering the PU council's discussion on the topic, NU's complex ban, and UU's outright ban, can we accept that Baton Pass is a tier-specific problem that shouldn't be dealt with without the consent of the Tier Leaders/Councils of each specific tier? I haven't kept up with this thread at all because I don't play OU and cannot express a well-informed opinion on whether or not Speed Passing, dry passing, Agility pass, Nasty Pass, or whatever else people could be running is broken within the context of that tier. The reverse is also true where I doubt a single person in this thread could provide an experienced, completely thorough report on Baton Pass's specific impact on every single tier in current standard play.

Our tiering framework is based around promoting skill. If bans between tiers are confusing, yet promote skill, then I believe that is more desirable than trying to force certain tiers to adopt policy they had arguably little say in. Banning Speed pass because it's easier that we don't have any "special snow flakes" is only inhibiting potential growth and development for other tiers.

Apologies if this post seems out of place. I don't know whether or not this argument is even a relevant point of discussion anymore, but I would not like to see it revived with a focus on an endorsed tier-wise ban. If you would like to bring up the possibility of banning Baton Pass as a whole in NU, I would be happy to participate in that discussion in our np thread and encourage you to put in the work on our ladder with any grand ideas you may have for a Baton Pass team. However, please do not try and use OU-specific material as evidence for a UU, RU, NU, and PU ban and vice versa. This should not be about that.
 
Disjunction said:
NU isn't the only "special snowflake" considering UU has more recently adopted their own take on the clause.

Considering the PU council's discussion on the topic, NU's complex ban, and UU's outright ban, can we accept that Baton Pass is a tier-specific problem that shouldn't be dealt with without the consent of the Tier Leaders/Councils of each specific tier? I haven't kept up with this thread at all because I don't play OU and cannot express a well-informed opinion on whether or not Speed Passing, dry passing, Agility pass, Nasty Pass, or whatever else people could be running is broken within the context of that tier. The reverse is also true where I doubt a single person in this thread could provide an experienced, completely thorough report on Baton Pass's specific impact on every single tier in current standard play.
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The question is, why did UU outright ban Baton Pass? Did they think that non-Speed BP or drypassing is overpowered (I 100% doubt the latter), or did they just ban it because they're sick of constantly revisiting the BP ban?

I think there's a lot of benefit to having the tiers share as many of their clauses as possible. It makes it much easier for people to learn new tiers if the only difference is the list of available Pokémon.

If there's a need for separate Baton Pass clauses for each tier, I'd support that, but I still don't think it's actually a need. I just think some people are sick of constantly revisiting the Baton Pass ban, and while I can empathize with that, I still think having the same clause in each tier is more important than that fatigue.
 
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