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Unified Diff of Smogon's OU vs Shoddy's 42 most popular
- Thread starter Dragontamer
- Start date
it gets more precise as you battle more often, like any statistic... while you might not see 43 blisseys in 100 battles, you are even less likely to see exactly 4 blisseys in 10 battles you are more likely to see around 430 in 1000 matches.
I dont see why these statistics shouldn't be introducted into tier discussion. I am of the opinion that tiers should be based on usage (the "what if everyone started using wooper" argument notwithstanding because it is pretty silly) and I'm not surprised at alot of the discrepancies. things like lax and milotic i rarely see sine their overall bulkiness is severely less so by the various aggressive pokes
One problem i can see with using these stats to change the list though is that if things are getting updated each month it'll get wierd. there will doubtless be pokes circulating in and out of whatever cutoff range that is adopted, are these overall BL or OU?
The error in your logic is the following: "I'd"
http://shoddybattle.com/ladder said:
No, you may not individually see Blissey in 43 of every 100 battles. What the statistic means is that in 43 of every 100 ladder battles(well technically 43 of every 50 since there are two teams) that occur, Blissey will appear. I think what you are probably have trouble with is that there are some pokemon like Blissey that you probably see much more often at the top of the ladder than at the bottom of the ladder. Teams that use better pokemon are more likely to work their way to the top of the ladder, which influences the teams you run into. Pokemon used in matches with players that have very high ratings are likely a slightly different batch than pokemon used in matches with very low ratings.
Well see, the error in this would be the system ATTEMPTS as I have many many many many many many many many times faced people with way lower ratings than mine. Not to mention, my two most common teams have at least 2 Pokes that are not in the top 42.
Also, I fail to see what being at the top or bottom of ranking matters cause I'm sure there are idiots who lose every other match using a bog standard team.
Random battles are not included; Eevee was really used in six battles! Colin asserts that Ditto's number is the most shocking since he'd only been a possible choice for a week of that month, but I still have to chuckle the most at Regigigas being beaten out by Furret.
About Bidoof and Bibarel, well, Bibarel is useless on Shoddy Battle due to a lack of traits so he wasn't able to overcome the internet meme thing Bidoof has going.
About Bidoof and Bibarel, well, Bibarel is useless on Shoddy Battle due to a lack of traits so he wasn't able to overcome the internet meme thing Bidoof has going.
Come on, MoP, your anecdotal accounts cannot overcome the actual usage statistics in an argument about usage. You are, in fact, just one person. You have 2 Pokemon in 2 teams (so 2 in 12, or 1/6 of your Pokemon) that are not in the top 42. That to me speaks more for its validity even in this specific case than against it.
Yes, there are people with theoretically powerful Pokemon who suck at battling and thus still lose. However, you're assuming obvious fallacies in an effort to be contrary. If two people are of equal battling skill, the person with the better team will be more likely to win. This means that, even if we don't take into account that the better battlers will also be more likely to be the better team builders, the people with the more powerful teams will, on average, rise to the top. And that, honestly, is all that matters. You can find exceptions all day if you want, but that's completely irrelevant, because probabilities that aren't equal to 100% or 0% do not even attempt to say something about the behavior of everyone in the group, but rather, the group as a whole. That is what he means.
And the reason you are not always matched up against people of similar ratings to you is because there are not always people of similar ratings trying to battle at that time. I'd rather face people of lower rating than wait all day for a set of 5 people on either side of me to hit "find match".
The only way I could see to improve this would be to suppliment it with some sort of usage multiplier based on the person's rating, so that a higher ranked player's team will be weighted more than a lower ranked person's team.
Ah, I was just going to say this, I'm surprised no one mentioned it previously. Obviously, in ladder play there are good and bad players. Many bad players think that Blissey + five 600 base pokémon make a good team, and they might like battling or have more free time or whatever, resulting in an increased usage that doesn't match exactly to the quality in battle of those pokémon.
So a simple multiplier could actually give a more faithful image of what's really used in high competitive play, and not just what people who want to be in high competitive play use.
Nope, not even Unaware...I'd use Bibarel on ALL my teams if it had a trait...but for now it can only be on my main one. :(
This list is an excellent example of why usage should not determine tiers. Tentacruel, Frosslass, and Clefable are definitely not too powerful for UU. Tentacruel's popularity is because of his specialized metagame-specific uses, which are irrelevant in UU. I have no idea why Frosslass and Clefable are there, but they're not even top-tier in UU. Removing them from the tier would be absurd.
blocks opposing rapid spin for hail teams too
Clefable? WTF? Is that only because of Magic Guard? It's not like it has the defenses to set up. Of course, I've never used Clefable (so it should be NU, then XD), so I might not know better either way.
It's nice to see that Spiritomb's being used more often. :D (But quit copying me! lol Who am I kidding? I haven't had that much time to go on Shoddy lately, anyhow. :( )
It's nice to see that Spiritomb's being used more often. :D (But quit copying me! lol Who am I kidding? I haven't had that much time to go on Shoddy lately, anyhow. :( )
Magic Gaurd is FREAKING AMAZING. I bet half the pokes in the game wish they could get Magic Gaurd. IMMUNITY from damage from rocks, sandstorm, hail, poison (and therefore toxic spikes), burn (and the ability to actually pick up poison/burn then abuse with STAB'd facade) . . . that's like half the damage sources in the freaking game! (well, it certainly seems that way anyway).
There are so many pokes that are happy just to be immune to 1 or 2 of those things, and there are other pokes (charizard/moltress/articuno/scyther) who are screwed just because they get bitched by 1 of those things!
Besides, Magic Gaurd is far from being Clefable's only selling point. :/
Magic Guard also nulls Life Orb recoil.
Not to mention that Clefable's movepool is the size of the Pacific Ocean. Seriously, the first time I used this thing, I started using it quite a bit.
It's a great pokemon for beginners who are trying to learn about creativity in their moveset and EV spreads, since it can have many many viable movesets, and is immune to a lot of stuff. No Life Orb recoil is insane.
It's also a great pokemon for experts, because, since it is quite slow, it requires quite a bit of prediction to use well, but when used well, it can cause a lot of damage to the opponent's team.
Honestly, nothing about this guy's usage surprises me, it can fit so many roles and, unlike many niche pokemon, it can fill many niches. This is probably one of the most customizable pokemon there is.
It's a great pokemon for beginners who are trying to learn about creativity in their moveset and EV spreads, since it can have many many viable movesets, and is immune to a lot of stuff. No Life Orb recoil is insane.
It's also a great pokemon for experts, because, since it is quite slow, it requires quite a bit of prediction to use well, but when used well, it can cause a lot of damage to the opponent's team.
Honestly, nothing about this guy's usage surprises me, it can fit so many roles and, unlike many niche pokemon, it can fill many niches. This is probably one of the most customizable pokemon there is.
I'm a little surprised to see Electivire is still getting so much use. Don't get me wrong - he's a great Pokemon, I just expected him to go the way of the Rhyperior once the initial hype died down and it became evident that he wasn't actually that great.
Gengar useage is also baffling. Alakazam has faded away into nothingness, mostly due to Weavile and the rest of the Pursuiters. However, Gengar who suffers all the same problems is currently ranked above freakin' Tyranitar. I expect him in the top 15, but not in the top 4.
Also shocked to see that Hitmonlee is used less than the other Hitmons, despite clearly being the best of the bunch.
Very interesting...thanks to all at Shoddy.
Gengar useage is also baffling. Alakazam has faded away into nothingness, mostly due to Weavile and the rest of the Pursuiters. However, Gengar who suffers all the same problems is currently ranked above freakin' Tyranitar. I expect him in the top 15, but not in the top 4.
Also shocked to see that Hitmonlee is used less than the other Hitmons, despite clearly being the best of the bunch.
Very interesting...thanks to all at Shoddy.
Gengar has a chance of surviving Weavile's CB pursuit if he stays in. Alakazam does not.
Perhaps that explains Gengar's use over Alakazam, in addition to Azelf which for all practical purposes is a better Alakazam with explosion.
Perhaps that explains Gengar's use over Alakazam, in addition to Azelf which for all practical purposes is a better Alakazam with explosion.
I have a feeling that it's because all Hitmonlee can really do is attack since it can't last very long at all. Plus he got left out of GOOD added traits. Limber is good and all, but people want to try out newer things, and Reckless is just bad...
Then you have Hitmonchan who has things such as the most powerful Drain Punch in the game thanks to Iron Fist, allowing it to stay a while if you use a bulky spread, one of the strongest Focus Punches and the ability to have a physical Bolt/Beam combo in Ice Punch/Thunderpunch. I know that's just attacking, but it can use its movepool better. Plus, with Drain Punch, it gains back a lot of health thanks to the lower HP, although 8 PP is crap.
Hitmontop IMO, is probably the best of the three since it is very sturdy, can boost up its respectable attack with Bulk Up, and it has a priority move to compensate for the lower speed. Plus that priority move is helped out by Techincian if it is used. It's one of the few spinners in the game and can actually force a switch quite easily with Intimidate. Then whatever comes in may just get Focus Punched if that's on its moveset. Plus it can break subs quite easily with a Technician Triple Kick.
Hitmonlee may be the best at raw attacking, but the others just have so many more uses...
That might have something to do with the fact unlike Alakazam Gengar can use almost any type of attack under the sun and still gets neat tricks like Destiny Bond and Hypnosis.
And I'd seriously take the other two Hitmon's over Hitmonlee anyday. All Lee has going for it is pure attack, Top is a great sturdy thing that can effectively use Rapid Spin or attack outright and Chan has incredible versatility and a semi reliable healing method.
There was a discussion a while ago on Hitmonchan. The conclusion was that while it has improved... typical BL/OU pokemon beat it in every kind of way except as an agility user.
Medicham is stronger in every kind of punch than Hitmonchan, including Focus Punch. 2x attack is much stronger than a 1.3x bonus on only a select few attacks >_>
Hitmonchan only gets Close Combat, which is weaker than Medicham's HJK. He is also slower...
Kinda sad really. Hitmonchan really is one of the most improved UU pokemon, and it still isn't enough to get close to OU status.
Medicham is stronger in every kind of punch than Hitmonchan, including Focus Punch. 2x attack is much stronger than a 1.3x bonus on only a select few attacks >_>
Hitmonchan only gets Close Combat, which is weaker than Medicham's HJK. He is also slower...
Kinda sad really. Hitmonchan really is one of the most improved UU pokemon, and it still isn't enough to get close to OU status.