Question here y'all. Is Silvally going to be tiered based on what kind it is (due to having multiple different typed forms), such as for example normal Silvally being UU, while Ice Silvally is RU? I heard something about this and never got clarification. As it would be cool to have each individual Silvally tiered, as some are most definitely worse and better than others.
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Sun & Moon UU Speculation and Discussion Thread - Updated with UU Alpha!
- Thread starter Pearl
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After playing a while and messing around with trying to break up so common cores i noticed everyone plays as if zard-y is 3atks+roost or 2atks+roost+wisp and kinda ignore the AoA set
Charizard-Mega-Y (F) @ Charizardite Y
Ability: Drought
Happiness: 0
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Fire Blast
- Solar Beam
- Focus Blast
- Dragon Pulse
AoA zard-y doesnt last as long or offer utility but its breaking Abilities are well worth it if you already have a fairy or fire answer. i guess you could also slash in air slash or ancient power but both are pretty sub-par on zard-y.
Charizard-Mega-Y (F) @ Charizardite Y
Ability: Drought
Happiness: 0
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Fire Blast
- Solar Beam
- Focus Blast
- Dragon Pulse
AoA zard-y doesnt last as long or offer utility but its breaking Abilities are well worth it if you already have a fairy or fire answer. i guess you could also slash in air slash or ancient power but both are pretty sub-par on zard-y.
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A sun team that I made:
Muk-Alola @ Black Sludge
Ability: Poison Touch
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Gunk Shot
- Pursuit
- Knock Off
- Shadow Sneak
Torkoal @ Heat Rock
Ability: Drought
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Lava Plume
- Clear Smog
- Rapid Spin
Venusaur @ Focus Sash
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Growth
- Solar Beam
- Sludge Bomb
Aerodactyl-Mega @ Aerodactylite
Ability: Tough Claws
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Hone Claws
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake
- Wing Attack
Victini @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Victory Star
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- V-create
- Bolt Strike
- Trick
- U-turn
Sawsbuck-Winter @ Life Orb
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Horn Leech
- Jump Kick
- Double-Edge
- Swords Dance
a rain version can work as well, just replace torkoal with politoed, sawsbuck and venusaur with kabutops and keldeo and victini with kyurem-black. Mega aerodactyl is used to check mega charizard y and muk-alola is a useful all-around check.
The biggest problems with this team included multiscale dragonite (once it gets up a d-dance you're in trouble), weavile (ice shard), and cresselia (can tank hits for days)
Muk-Alola @ Black Sludge
Ability: Poison Touch
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Gunk Shot
- Pursuit
- Knock Off
- Shadow Sneak
Torkoal @ Heat Rock
Ability: Drought
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Lava Plume
- Clear Smog
- Rapid Spin
Venusaur @ Focus Sash
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Growth
- Solar Beam
- Sludge Bomb
Aerodactyl-Mega @ Aerodactylite
Ability: Tough Claws
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Hone Claws
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake
- Wing Attack
Victini @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Victory Star
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- V-create
- Bolt Strike
- Trick
- U-turn
Sawsbuck-Winter @ Life Orb
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Horn Leech
- Jump Kick
- Double-Edge
- Swords Dance
a rain version can work as well, just replace torkoal with politoed, sawsbuck and venusaur with kabutops and keldeo and victini with kyurem-black. Mega aerodactyl is used to check mega charizard y and muk-alola is a useful all-around check.
The biggest problems with this team included multiscale dragonite (once it gets up a d-dance you're in trouble), weavile (ice shard), and cresselia (can tank hits for days)
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Nice Sun team. Here's a slightly more offensive version, if you're looking for fun with Zard-Y:
Venusaur @ Life Orb
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Giga Drain
- Sludge Bomb
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Leaf Storm
Charizard-Mega-Y @ Charizardite Y
Ability: Drought
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Flamethrower
- Solar Beam
- Dragon Pulse
- Will-O-Wisp
Latias @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe
- Draco Meteor
- Psyshock
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Defog
Gigalith @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 248 HP / 16 Def / 244 SpD
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake
- Protect
Victini @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Victory Star
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- V-create
- Zen Headbutt
- Bolt Strike
- U-turn
Entei @ Choice Band
Ability: Pressure
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Sacred Fire
- Extreme Speed
- Stone Edge
- Flare Blitz
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Giga Drain
- Sludge Bomb
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Leaf Storm
Charizard-Mega-Y @ Charizardite Y
Ability: Drought
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Flamethrower
- Solar Beam
- Dragon Pulse
- Will-O-Wisp
Latias @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe
- Draco Meteor
- Psyshock
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Defog
Gigalith @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 248 HP / 16 Def / 244 SpD
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake
- Protect
Victini @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Victory Star
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- V-create
- Zen Headbutt
- Bolt Strike
- U-turn
Entei @ Choice Band
Ability: Pressure
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Sacred Fire
- Extreme Speed
- Stone Edge
- Flare Blitz
So uh, how are you guys dealing with Dragonite on offensive teams? Between Multiscale and Extreme Speed and Z-fly and all the coverage it can potentially run, it feels like it's so easy for the opponent to run down whatever subpar checks you have and just sweep lategame. I've been kind of at a loss.
What exactly does Z-Fly do?
175 base power Flying-type move, no charge turn required.
Ah, honestly even on D-Nite I don't see that as being too broken. Especially because it wastes an item slot that could be more reliably used for Multi-Scale Weakness Policy with E-Speed.
Right, but it's that versatility that makes it such a threat. The very fact that it's so absurdly easy to set up with Dragonite, coupled with the fact that it hits hard, has the strongest priority move in the game that outprioritizes all other priority, solid coverage and the versatility to run Z-fly, bulky fly sets, Weakness Policy.... just how in the world do you check this thing?
ez answer is rocks and/or ditto
Why would you run sand stream gigalith on a sun team (the sand gets in the way of the sun!). Also does charizard y sun provide enough sun turns (5 vs 8) to get the team going? Nice team, but the gigalith is odd (I'd replace it with krookodile or z-fly dragonite)
Having a different type of weather allows you to reset the Sun so that the next time Zard Y comes in you get the full five turns of usage. This is crucial when you don't have the crutch of a Heat Rock to abuse your Sun. Gigalith is also just a great counter to Mence/DNite right now.
But there are so many solid hazard removers in this tier. Starmie, Latias, Tentacruel, Dhelmise, Tsareena, Decidueye, etc. Whereas we have only Thundurus as a Defog absorber, and it has better things to be doing (aka using Prankster Thunder Wave to check some of the myriad insane sweepers we've got). We've got some decent spinblockers, but you have to admit it's pretty damn easy to keep rocks off the field right now.
thats true. you can always use sand as a passive check, but forcing an entire play style is pretty lame.
defensive answers exist in unaware, tangrowth/slowbro core and etc. but other than hard walls, you basically have to offensively check it. forcing an outrage is also a decent answer
Not Hogg, but in spite of its ability, I can see Gigalith working nicely on sun teams due to its good synergy with Grass and Fire-type Pokemon, as well as its ability to soft check many Pokemon that would be stupidly hard to handle otherwise, such as opposing Fire-types (mostly Zard Y and Victini), Stoutland and strong attackers in general, since its nice mixed bulk allow it to soft check a vast majority of the current metagame. It also gets Stealth Rock down reliably against a lot of Pokemon. Overall, I feel like you're too centered on the sun aspect of the team, which can work but is generally less reliable than building a solid team that has Charizard Y + Pokemon that benefit from Sun but can adopt a different game plan instead of going for the win with sun sweepers all the time. Personally, I'm a fan Zard Y + Calm Mind / Iron Defense Necrozma because it allows Necrozma to set up on some hard hitters that it wouldn't be able to handle otherwise, since the weather lets it recover 2/3 of its HP with its recovery move of choice. On top of that, it also gives Necrozma some additional breathing room against Sand/Rain by resetting the opposing weather.
On a different note, I'm considering updating the thread's OP with additional information about UU Alpha. Personally, I'm not going to commit to the current UU format much because it's a big mess and we all know that Gen 7 UU is unlikely to look like this after OU has stabilized for good, but it's still important to keep tabs on what is most likely going to need to get banned if we're looking into making a smooth transition from Alpha/Beta to the real deal.
Last but not least, a big thank you to all of you for making this thread a success! Greatly appreciate your contributions, so please do keep on sharing your experiences with the format.
Why hasn't anyone noticed that Necrozma gets access to Iron Defense and Calm Mind to boost stats and Stored Power to get to base 380 power (at max defense, special defense and special attack, without stab), plus reliable recovery? Slap lefties on this thing with these moves and you are set, with the only two things to look out for being crits and toxic, and maybe haze/clear smog. Dark types can also wall it, but they probably won't be able to touch it at maxed defenses. This is my set:
Necrozma @ Leftovers
Ability: Prism Armor
EVs: 160 HP / 252 SpA / 96 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonlight
- Calm Mind
- Iron Defense
- Stored Power
Necrozma @ Leftovers
Ability: Prism Armor
EVs: 160 HP / 252 SpA / 96 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonlight
- Calm Mind
- Iron Defense
- Stored Power
Keep in mind due to the prevalence of Sun / Sand right now, it's not ENTIRELY reliable. It's 50/50 at best right now. While I agree this is a wonderful set, I'd recommend something else instead of Iron Defense simply because it needs additional coverage.
I'll give my thoughts on some of the monsters of this metagame.
Zard Y has gotten a lot of hype, and for good reason. If you don't carry something like Latias, have fun sacking something to it every time it fires off an attack. 100 base speed is downright respectable, allowing Zard to outpace many things in the tier and deliver a powerful blow. I've just been running the standard three attacks and roost, since even "resists" are taking a beating. Here's some calcs to show how hard it hits a lot of pokemon in the tier.
252 SpA Charizard-Mega-Y Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Keldeo: 170-201 (52.6 - 62.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Charizard-Mega-Y Fire Blast vs. 72 HP / 0 SpD Latias: 126-148 (39.4 - 46.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Charizard-Mega-Y Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Latias: 126-148 (41.8 - 49.1%) -- 84.4% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Charizard-Mega-Y Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Dragonite: 156-185 (48.2 - 57.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Charizard-Mega-Y Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Mew: 226-267 (55.9 - 66%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Charizard-Mega-Y Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Gigalith: 170-200 (45.4 - 53.4%) -- 91.8% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
As you can see, even "resists" are blown away by this thing lmao. Gigalith is boned if Zard hits focus blast enough (so never because it will just dodge haha).
Weavile is a bitch against fast teams, and even against bulky teams it's good thanks to knock off being so easy to spam. I run pursuit on this thing and pair it with anything that like Latias being gone, including Zard and Keldeo. Priority ice shard is nice, although not being able to revenge kill Dragonite sucks. Pursuit is nice considering the two best hazard removers in Stamie and Latias are weak to it, and in general it's still a busted move.
Speaking of Dragonite, this thing is so retarded. I've been running this thing on like 80% of my teams, and holy shit does it tear apart teams. Hazard removal is actually not ass, unlike late gen 6, with many great option like Starmie, Latias (dragon spam and healing wish are awesome), and even Mew or Scizor. If you do not pack an answer for this thing after a dd, you'll get your ass kicked a lot.
Speaking of Dragonite answers, good old Kyurem-B out speeds, ignores multi scale, and can revenge +1 Nite with scarf. What counters this thing? Lmao, what's a counter?
I'll share more sets later when I have more time. I've been having a lot of fun with this ladder.
Zard Y has gotten a lot of hype, and for good reason. If you don't carry something like Latias, have fun sacking something to it every time it fires off an attack. 100 base speed is downright respectable, allowing Zard to outpace many things in the tier and deliver a powerful blow. I've just been running the standard three attacks and roost, since even "resists" are taking a beating. Here's some calcs to show how hard it hits a lot of pokemon in the tier.
252 SpA Charizard-Mega-Y Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Keldeo: 170-201 (52.6 - 62.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Charizard-Mega-Y Fire Blast vs. 72 HP / 0 SpD Latias: 126-148 (39.4 - 46.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Charizard-Mega-Y Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Latias: 126-148 (41.8 - 49.1%) -- 84.4% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Charizard-Mega-Y Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Dragonite: 156-185 (48.2 - 57.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Charizard-Mega-Y Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Mew: 226-267 (55.9 - 66%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Charizard-Mega-Y Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Gigalith: 170-200 (45.4 - 53.4%) -- 91.8% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
As you can see, even "resists" are blown away by this thing lmao. Gigalith is boned if Zard hits focus blast enough (so never because it will just dodge haha).
Weavile is a bitch against fast teams, and even against bulky teams it's good thanks to knock off being so easy to spam. I run pursuit on this thing and pair it with anything that like Latias being gone, including Zard and Keldeo. Priority ice shard is nice, although not being able to revenge kill Dragonite sucks. Pursuit is nice considering the two best hazard removers in Stamie and Latias are weak to it, and in general it's still a busted move.
Speaking of Dragonite, this thing is so retarded. I've been running this thing on like 80% of my teams, and holy shit does it tear apart teams. Hazard removal is actually not ass, unlike late gen 6, with many great option like Starmie, Latias (dragon spam and healing wish are awesome), and even Mew or Scizor. If you do not pack an answer for this thing after a dd, you'll get your ass kicked a lot.
Speaking of Dragonite answers, good old Kyurem-B out speeds, ignores multi scale, and can revenge +1 Nite with scarf. What counters this thing? Lmao, what's a counter?
I'll share more sets later when I have more time. I've been having a lot of fun with this ladder.
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Could this team work? Politoed, kabutops, keldeo, kyurem-black, latias, doublade (grass and fairy check). This is similar to my sun team but only one pokemon (kabutops) is rain-dependent. Keldeo, Kyu-B, Latias, and Doublade do not need rain to function.
Thanks everyone for help on the sun team. I will add in charizard-y, latias, and gigalith and replace sawsbuck, torkoal, and mega aerodactyl.
Thanks everyone for help on the sun team. I will add in charizard-y, latias, and gigalith and replace sawsbuck, torkoal, and mega aerodactyl.
Your team gets eaten alive by Charizard-Y if your Politoed dies. Since it outspeeds Kabutops when it isn't under rain.
Pearl and Sage of the 6 both have it right. Gigalith fills a lot of defensive holes in the team, provides rocks, and resets weather so that you get a full five turns of Sun every time zardy comes in. Basically think of it like this: Zardy comes in and kill something, and the opponent brings in a revenge killer. You pivot out, then bring Zardy back in. Normally you'd only have one or two turns of sun left, but if you switch out to Gigalith, Sun will be renewed from the beginning when Zardy comes back in. Not really necessary if you're running Heat Rock, but it can help if you're just running Zardy + some stuff that likes the sun.
Kyurem Black will get scarf to outspeed zard-y and hit it with fusion bolt. Thanks for the advice though. Are grasses and fairies all that common to justify running doublade or should it be replaced with say gigalith? I might also run belly drum azumarill instead of kabutops. That way, Zard-Y has trouble switching into aqua jet.
Can you explain why exactly you gave them the sets you did and what were the biggest problems you ran into when using this team please?
Yeah run Azumarill instead, the additional fairy coverage and power is more than important. Also Doublade is arguably a good addition to the team, but Gigalith could work too, especially if you're removing Kabutops
What do you guys think will be quick banned? What do you guys think will be suspected and then banned? What do you guys think will be suspected but ultimately stay UU? What about mons currently in UU Alpha that will go to OU by usage once ppl realize how good it is? I think it's interesting to look back at how XY UU was and to look how it progressed to ORAS UU. I am hoping for a really changed meta with a higher power creep, could be fun!
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