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Metagame SM NU Speculation Thread [Read Post #109!]

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comfey.gif

Comfey @ Leftovers
Ability: Triage
EVs: 252 HP / 160 Def / 96 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Leech Seed
- Dazzling Gleam
- Toxic

So, this is a super fun (not for the opponent) set, that takes advantage of comfey's speed, bulk, and low hp to effectively stall out pretty much anything. The speed lets it fairly easily beat base 80's, and the rest can go into bulk, giving it the ability to tank a fair number of hits. Dazzling gleam provides all the coverage you need, as fairy moves are op, and toxic lets you effectively deal with grass types immune to leech seed. Main issue with the set is your inability to hit vileplume, and how it can be fairly passive vs poison- and steel- types.

Replay vs erisia : http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7pokebankou-496381789
 
guan123 said:
Sticky web might also be better this generation due to the preponderance of slower pokemon Also, swellow leaving (RU will snap it up due to the SpA boost) will increase the viability of sticky web (swellow is one of the fastest NU pokemon immune to the slowing effect of sticky web.

Do you think trick room will work this gen? Has trick room ever worked in NU?

I can tell you that Trick Room wasn't all that popular in ORAS but it definitely worked using mons like Aggron, CB Hariyama, Exeggutor, Beheeyem etc. Gen 7 gave us a few slow wallbreakers like Crabominable, Vikavolt, Gumshoos, and Alolan Exeggutor and they can definitely work with Trick Room. I see Comfey becoming a potential TR-setter so there's that. Also I don't think Sticky Web will increase in viability because the mons that set it up are still pretty bad.
 
PursuitOfHappiny said:
I can tell you that Trick Room wasn't all that popular in ORAS but it definitely worked using mons like Aggron, CB Hariyama, Exeggutor, Beheeyem etc. Gen 7 gave us a few slow wallbreakers like Crabominable, Vikavolt, Gumshoos, and Alolan Exeggutor and they can definitely work with Trick Room. I see Comfey becoming a potential TR-setter so there's that. Also I don't think Sticky Web will increase in viability because the mons that set it up are still pretty bad.

Trick room is shaping up to be good in NU if the slow mons drop (and/or RU drops much of its debris). The problem is that smeargle (main webs setter) isn't that good, as you said. Spore is useful, but webs require a spinblocker (rotom/mismagius). So webs is smeargle, spinblocker, 2 slowmons, quickmon (in case webs are removed), and either a defog deterrent (Malamar/Servine/Pawniard), or another slowmon. Make sure to account for xatu (Malamar works if xatu doesn't have signal beam, pawniard works too)
 
trick room will never be a consistent playstyle in singles until they make an item that extends it for 8 turns which they won't b/c it'll be broken as fuck in doubles

also the best comfey set is sub cm leech seed draining kiss you dont fucking die and do a real good job of wearing down stuff that doesnt have recovery while at the same time being able to boost to beat stuff that does. theres a replay out there somewhere of me fucking up ttftw with it as it beat a z-celebrate zard 1v1, sucks that leech seed isnt priority though
 
The thing about Sticky Webs is that new mons like Vikavolt and Crabominable are actually too slow to make use of the opposing Speed debuffs; mons like Jynx, Lilligant, and Rotom still outspeed these two even if they run +Speed natures under Sticky Webs, and obviously mons like Tauros and Archeops do too, so this means Vikavolt and Crabominable will still struggle against most offensive teams. The main Speed benmark for your Webs abusers to hit is probably 234 so that they outrun Tauros in Sticky Web (although going up to 241 Speed is probably best so you outspeed Jolly Abomasnow and Adamant Samurott outside of Webs); so Pokemon like Close Combat Hitmonchan, Magmortar, and a Samurott of your own are generally better suited as Webs abusers. Max Speed Adamant Malamar is another good one that also discourages Defog.

Also however you design your team you need to have a solid Archeops check so that it doesn't just come in, avoid the Webs and wreck your team. Having Aqua Jet on your Samurott helps solve this issue but you can also partly solve it by having Scarf Rotom be your generic fastmon. Sticky Webs might actually be in a better position than before since it doesn't have to deal with Charizard and Swellow now, and Mismagius seems to be much less common. Bibarel could be a fun new mon for Sticky Web teams since +4 Waterfall and Return hurt like heck and you can run either Aqua Jet or Quick Attack depending on your team.
 
erisia said:
The thing about Sticky Webs is that new mons like Vikavolt and Crabominable are actually too slow to make use of the opposing Speed debuffs; mons like Jynx, Lilligant, and Rotom still outspeed these two even if they run +Speed natures under Sticky Webs, and obviously mons like Tauros and Archeops do too, so this means Vikavolt and Crabominable will still struggle against most offensive teams. The main Speed benmark for your Webs abusers to hit is probably 234 so that they outrun Tauros in Sticky Web (although going up to 241 Speed is probably best so you outspeed Jolly Abomasnow and Adamant Samurott outside of Webs); so Pokemon like Close Combat Hitmonchan, Magmortar, and a Samurott of your own are generally better suited as Webs abusers. Max Speed Adamant Malamar is another good one that also discourages Defog.

Thanks Erisia. I'm scrapping my webs prototype because the new mons are too slow for webs. Welp; are any of the new slow mons bulky enough to justify them on a balance or bulky offense team? If they are not bulky enough for balance, looks like trick room is the best way to get them up to speed. Trick room cores could also work (one TR setter, one slowmon) and the rest of the team is not dependent on Trick room to succeed.
 
Crabominable is a pretty funny case because while on paper its terrible defensive typing and terrible Speed should make it more or less fodder, it actually has enough neutral bulk to live most neutral attacks and get a hit off, and considering how powerful its STABs are, it's usually going to hit back a lot harder than the opponent would like. There are practically no Pokemon usable in NU that both resist Ice- and Fighting-type attacks so if you're good at predicting then it's almost impossible to not deal a chunk of damage with it. My opinion has completely changed on this mon and I think it'll become an NU favorite in a similar vein to Aggron and Abomasnow, losing some Speed and defensive merit for even more offensive pressure. Here's some sets you can consider.

crabominable.gif
Crabominable Sets
Crabominable @ Choice Band
Ability: Iron Fist
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly / Adamant Nature
- Ice Hammer
- Close Combat
- Ice Punch
- Earthquake

Ice Hammer is almost unstoppable on its own and destroys a lot of common Ice resists that rely on their SpD, such as Hariyama and Magmortar. Close Combat hits literally everything else. Ice Punch gives you a slightly weaker Ice-type move that doesn't miss or drop your Speed, which is usually better in the late game once things are weakened, while Earthquake lets you hit Garbodor without stacking recoil damage. Crabominable is so powerful you can afford to run a Jolly Nature and outspeed stuff like max Speed Adamant Aggron and Jolly Rhydon, as well as things that generally try and hit that Speed benchmark like Lanturn. Bit of a random calc but it just shows how strong Ice Hammer really is.

252 Atk Choice Band Iron Fist Crabominable Ice Hammer vs. 240 HP / 252+ Def Musharna: 237-280 (54.7 - 64.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Crabominable @ Focus Sash
Ability: Iron Fist
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant / Jolly Nature
- Ice Hammer
- Close Combat
- Ice Punch
- Bulldoze / Rock Tomb

Another way to use Crabominable's power is to just lead with it. With a Focus Sash, Crabominable can usually get at least one strong hit off against most Stealth Rock users and while it REALLY wishes it got Mach Punch or Ice Shard (or even just Bullet Punch), it can afford to run Bulldoze or Rock Tomb to drop things like Garbodor and Mesprit down to its Speed tier so it can follow up with a STAB hit or force a switch.

Crabominable @ Assault Vest
Ability: Iron Fist
EVs: 252 Atk / 160 SpD / 96 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Ice Hammer
- Close Combat
- Ice Punch
- Bulldoze / Rock Tomb

This set takes a similar route but makes more use of Crabominable's good neutral bulk to live some hits by surprise and KO its aggressors with a powerful STAB attack. Crabominable's high HP stat means it's usually better to invest in SpD. The Speed EVs let you outspeed Piloswine and Gourgeist-XL, which may or may not be relevant. Here's a calc to demonstrate the sort of hits you can take.

252 SpA Life Orb Haunter Sludge Bomb vs. 0 HP / 160 SpD Assault Vest Crabominable: 133-156 (39.7 - 46.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

As for Vikavolt, the best set at the moment is a defensive pivot using a slow Volt Switch and Roost; people have already covered this in the thread but here's my sample set that I use. The Speed EVs let you outspeed Piloswine and the Modest nature lets you 2HKO it with Energy Ball, while the rest of the defensive investment lets Vikavolt pivot into physical attacks reliably.

vikavolt.gif


Vikavolt @ Rocky Helmet / Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 160 Def / 96 Spe
Modest Nature
- Bug Buzz
- Energy Ball
- Volt Switch
- Roost

You can also use an offensive Agility set with a Modest nature, but don't expect to outspeed any Choice Scarf users unless you manage to use Agility twice.
 
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erisia said:
As for Vikavolt, the best set at the moment is a defensive pivot using a slow Volt Switch and Roost; people have already covered this in the thread but here's my sample set that I use. The Speed EVs let you outspeed Piloswine and the Modest nature lets you 2HKO it with Energy Ball, while the rest of the defensive investment lets Vikavolt pivot into physical attacks reliably.

vikavolt.gif


Vikavolt @ Rocky Helmet / Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 160 Def / 96 Spe
Modest Nature
- Bug Buzz
- Energy Ball
- Volt Switch
- Roost

You can also use an offensive Agility set with a Modest nature, but don't expect to outspeed any Choice Scarf users unless you manage to use Agility twice.

I think if you're going with the defensive variant the speed investment isn't needed as you just lose much appreciated bulk. With 96 Speed EVs you only outspeed Piloswine, Regirock and Vileplume while the former 2 can't even touch you (granted that Regi is running Rock Slide)apart from setting up rocks. Modest nature is also an unneccessary bonus as it hits quite hard uninvested anyway. The set I use is just the max def Bold nature set that Skelos posted earlier which lets you take a Rock Climb from Tauros for example.

calcs
252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Tauros Rock Climb vs. 252 HP / 160 Def Vikavolt: 191-226 (53.3 - 63.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Tauros Rock Climb vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Vikavolt: 161-191 (44.9 - 53.3%) -- 34.8% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Garbodor Gunk Shot vs. 252 HP / 160 Def Vikavolt: 145-172 (40.5 - 48%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Garbodor Gunk Shot vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Vikavolt: 123-145 (34.3 - 40.5%) -- 46.9% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Passimian Rock Slide vs. 252 HP / 160 Def Vikavolt: 144-170 (40.2 - 47.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Passimian Rock Slide vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Vikavolt: 120-142 (33.5 - 39.6%) -- 20.7% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Beartic Icicle Crash vs. 252 HP / 160 Def Vikavolt: 364-430 (101.6 - 120.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Beartic Icicle Crash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Vikavolt: 305-360 (85.1 - 100.5%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
 
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Good point. Also, here's another Cosmic Pass receiver that you might find amusing:

lopunny.gif
+
turtonator.gif

Turtonator @ Leftovers
Ability: Shell Armor
EVs: 252 HP / 220 SpD / 36 Spe
Careful Nature
- Bulk Up
- Dragon Tail / Dragon Claw
- Earthquake / Flame Charge
- Rest

So this thing is crazy. It's not quite as bulky as Type: Null but it has a lot of resistances and only two relevant weaknesses that are primarily physical, so they usually aren't an issue once you have a few Def boosts. Shell Armor again prevents critical hits so you can stall stuff out indefinitely. Turtonator's Fire typing prevents it from being Burned so you don't have to worry about that. Dragon Tail both stops opposing setup sweepers from being able to break through you and also lets you counter-phase Steelix and Rhydon (which is what the Speed EVs are for). Earthquake provides perfect neutral coverage outside of God Bronzor and avoids contact with Garbodor, preventing it from chipping you. Flame Charge is slightly weaker but also boosts Turtonator's Speed, making you less vulnerable to Taunt and Encore (if this thing got Fire Punch it'd probably still be better though...). Finally Rest is instant recovery because you can get chipped over time even with Leftovers, although if you get enough Cosmic Power boosts and a Substitute you might be able to afford one of the other moves or Substitute here instead. At +6 Speed you outspeed Scarf Rotom but you can run 44 EVs to outspeed Scarf Jynx; this is relevant as you can use Flame Charge to boost your Speed before boosting your Attack, ensuring you don't give it an opportunity to come in and use Trick. Entry hazard support is obviously also nice since you're running Dragon Tail. If you're not worried about phasers for some reason then Dragon Claw is more powerful and 100% accurate.

Main weaknesses of this set are TALL Dragon-types and Haze / Taunt / Encore users, particularly if you don't run Flame Charge, but if you're running a Lopunny team anyways you can run Calm Mind Clefairy or Spritzee to switch into Meteors and deal with Toxic users / Taunt and Encore users respectively. Also Quagsire and Pyukumuku are unpleasant due to Unaware, so pack a strong Grass-type imo (Vileplume also absorbs T-Spikes and can switch into Clear Smog Gastrodon).

Here is a replay of it vs lovely user marilli: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7pokebankou-497055902
 
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Do you think any RU mons will drop to NU? Right now, UU alpha increasingly resembles ORAS OU, which means that a whole bunch of formerly UU mons will drop to RU (including BL2). The same thing will happen to RU. With the release of BL2/ some UU, RU will drop some of its lesser used pokemon to NU, such as ineffective pokemon like cincinno and ambipom. Cofagrigus in particular I can see dropping due to palossand being another defensive ghost, but this time with reliable recovery.
That said, which RU mons will drop?
 
guan123 said:
Do you think any RU mons will drop to NU? Right now, UU alpha increasingly resembles ORAS OU, which means that a whole bunch of formerly UU mons will drop to RU (including BL2). The same thing will happen to RU. With the release of BL2/ some UU, RU will drop some of its lesser used pokemon to NU, such as ineffective pokemon like cincinno and ambipom. Cofagrigus in particular I can see dropping due to palossand being another defensive ghost, but this time with reliable recovery.
That said, which RU mons will drop?

I'm going to assume Mega-Banette (one it gets released), Clawitzer, Eelektross, Aromatisse (since it is speculated that Florges will drop to RU), Togetic, Ambipom, and Cincinno
 
Normal spam will be interesting if ambipom and cincinno drop. Cincinno is faster than tauros, so it has a niche on normal spam. Tail slap king's rock is cancerous as usual (even more in NU where cincinno isn't trash). Fletchinder drops for sure due to the gale wings nerf. Spiritomb may drop as well (although that's due to having lower than 5% usage and the new pokemon coming in may drop it to NU levels). Ambipom will be hard to drop come to think about it due to 9% (higher at lower ladder) usage. Typhlosion will drop but scarf eruption will make it broken in NU (again). Qwilfish and absol may drop (due to having less than 4.4% usage). Qwilfish does toxic spikes and absol has a wide movepool.

How do you think the loss of charizard (RU will take this), swellow, mantine, and pelipper affect the tier. Defog took a hit so hazards will be stronger. Electric coverage may also be less common (especially with the departure of 4 flying types)
 
guan123 said:
Normal spam will be interesting if ambipom and cincinno drop. Cincinno is faster than tauros, so it has a niche on normal spam. Tail slap king's rock is cancerous as usual (even more in NU where cincinno isn't trash). Fletchinder drops for sure due to the gale wings nerf. Spiritomb may drop as well (although that's due to having lower than 5% usage and the new pokemon coming in may drop it to NU levels). Ambipom will be hard to drop come to think about it due to 9% (higher at lower ladder) usage. Typhlosion will drop but scarf eruption will make it broken in NU (again). Qwilfish and absol may drop (due to having less than 4.4% usage). Qwilfish does toxic spikes and absol has a wide movepool.

How do you think the loss of charizard (RU will take this), swellow, mantine, and pelipper affect the tier. Defog took a hit so hazards will be stronger. Electric coverage may also be less common (especially with the departure of 4 flying types)

Generally, King's Rock is far too gimmicky to be efficient for Cinccino. As for the losses, losing Zard will hurt, though Oricorio-Baile could make a shittier replacement (or just use Pyroar/Typhlosion). Swellow will likely not go to RU due to Exploud existing, though if both end up dropping they'll likely be quickbanned in a way similar to how Pangoro was banned in ORAS RU. Mantine and Pelipper are disposable though. Their roles as bulky Defoggers will likely be taken up by the likes Prinplup, Vullaby, and even Lumineon could work I guess.

I also think that Virizion will drop because the likes of regular Tornadus will be RU, which will make life for Virizion hell in that tier unless a quickban occurs again. That is the reason it dropped at the beginning of XY NU as well IIRC. That and new toy smell affects it a lot. Still, it wasn't even considered for a suspect test during the times it was NU last gen, so I think it'll be fine.
 
Melons-N-Soda said:
Generally, King's Rock is far too gimmicky to be efficient for Cinccino. As for the losses, losing Zard will hurt, though Oricorio-Baile could make a shittier replacement (or just use Pyroar/Typhlosion). Swellow will likely not go to RU due to Exploud existing, though if both end up dropping they'll likely be quickbanned in a way similar to how Pangoro was banned in ORAS RU. Mantine and Pelipper are disposable though. Their roles as bulky Defoggers will likely be taken up by the likes Prinplup, Vullaby, and even Lumineon could work I guess.
sab
I also think that Virizion will drop because the likes of regular Tornadus will be RU, which will make life for Virizion hell in that tier unless a quickban occurs again. That is the reason it dropped at the beginning of XY NU as well IIRC. That and new toy smell affects it a lot. Still, it wasn't even considered for a suspect test during the times it was NU last gen, so I think it'll be fine.

Swellow has a niche over exploud because swellow is quite a bit faster. (Base 125 speed vs base 68 speed). No one runs scarf exploud so swellow probably is a special sweeper while exploud is a wallbreaker. New toy syndrome is also a thing, because RU players (especially low ladder) would want to try out the buffed swellow (base 75 SpA) The normal types (ambipom and cincinno) will definitely drop due to the release of BL2 (tyrantrum, durant, and sableye). Full normal spam (tauros/cincinno/kangaskhan), could work on blowing away normal type checks. Sceptile will definitely drop due to the release of BL2 (moltres, kyurem, honchkrow), which it hates and sceptile is very fast (especially now that swellow will probably leave).
 
erisia said:
Crabominable is a pretty funny case because while on paper its terrible defensive typing and terrible Speed should make it more or less fodder, it actually has enough neutral bulk to live most neutral attacks and get a hit off, and considering how powerful its STABs are, it's usually going to hit back a lot harder than the opponent would like. There are practically no Pokemon usable in NU that both resist Ice- and Fighting-type attacks so if you're good at predicting then it's almost impossible to not deal a chunk of damage with it. My opinion has completely changed on this mon and I think it'll become an NU favorite in a similar vein to Aggron and Abomasnow, losing some Speed and defensive merit for even more offensive pressure. Here's some sets you can consider.

crabominable.gif
Crabominable Sets
Crabominable @ Choice Band
Ability: Iron Fist
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly / Adamant Nature
- Ice Hammer
- Close Combat
- Ice Punch
- Earthquake

Ice Hammer is almost unstoppable on its own and destroys a lot of common Ice resists that rely on their SpD, such as Hariyama and Magmortar. Close Combat hits literally everything else. Ice Punch gives you a slightly weaker Ice-type move that doesn't miss or drop your Speed, which is usually better in the late game once things are weakened, while Earthquake lets you hit Garbodor without stacking recoil damage. Crabominable is so powerful you can afford to run a Jolly Nature and outspeed stuff like max Speed Adamant Aggron and Jolly Rhydon, as well as things that generally try and hit that Speed benchmark like Lanturn. Bit of a random calc but it just shows how strong Ice Hammer really is.

252 Atk Choice Band Iron Fist Crabominable Ice Hammer vs. 240 HP / 252+ Def Musharna: 237-280 (54.7 - 64.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Crabominable @ Focus Sash
Ability: Iron Fist
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant / Jolly Nature
- Ice Hammer
- Close Combat
- Ice Punch
- Bulldoze / Rock Tomb

Another way to use Crabominable's power is to just lead with it. With a Focus Sash, Crabominable can usually get at least one strong hit off against most Stealth Rock users and while it REALLY wishes it got Mach Punch or Ice Shard (or even just Bullet Punch), it can afford to run Bulldoze or Rock Tomb to drop things like Garbodor and Mesprit down to its Speed tier so it can follow up with a STAB hit or force a switch.

Crabominable @ Assault Vest
Ability: Iron Fist
EVs: 252 Atk / 160 SpD / 96 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Ice Hammer
- Close Combat
- Ice Punch
- Bulldoze / Rock Tomb

This set takes a similar route but makes more use of Crabominable's good neutral bulk to live some hits by surprise and KO its aggressors with a powerful STAB attack. Crabominable's high HP stat means it's usually better to invest in SpD. The Speed EVs let you outspeed Piloswine and Gourgeist-XL, which may or may not be relevant. Here's a calc to demonstrate the sort of hits you can take.

252 SpA Life Orb Haunter Sludge Bomb vs. 0 HP / 160 SpD Assault Vest Crabominable: 133-156 (39.7 - 46.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

As for Vikavolt, the best set at the moment is a defensive pivot using a slow Volt Switch and Roost; people have already covered this in the thread but here's my sample set that I use. The Speed EVs let you outspeed Piloswine and the Modest nature lets you 2HKO it with Energy Ball, while the rest of the defensive investment lets Vikavolt pivot into physical attacks reliably.

vikavolt.gif


Vikavolt @ Rocky Helmet / Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 160 Def / 96 Spe
Modest Nature
- Bug Buzz
- Energy Ball
- Volt Switch
- Roost

You can also use an offensive Agility set with a Modest nature, but don't expect to outspeed any Choice Scarf users unless you manage to use Agility twice.

Why so much speed on vikavolt? Imo 240 HP / 152 Def / 96 SpA / 20 Spe (speed optional); Modest; would be best for its pivot set, or 32 Hp / 252 SpA / 224 Spe for its agility set
 
I don't think ninetales-alola is going to stay down in SuMo NU (UU will take it, aurora veil ). But hail seems to be interesting. Of the three remaining hail setters, vanilluxe seems best due to having the best speed and special attack.
Sandslash-Alola @ Life Orb
Ability: Slush Rush
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Icicle Crash
- Iron Head
- Earthquake
- Swords Dance / Aurora Veil
Vanilluxe @ Focus Sash / Icy Rock
Ability: Snow Warning
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Mild Nature
- Blizzard
- Flash Cannon
- Freeze-Dry
- Explosion
Simple. Vanilluxe is there to set up hail for 5 turns, enough for Sandslash-Alola to come in and hit hard. Explosion is for getting Sandslash-alola in. This is a hail core and the double ice attacks help get rid of shared checks.
 
735.png

Tr@sh @ Choice Band
Ability: Stakeout
Happiness: 0
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Frustration
- Earthquake
- Crunch
- U-turn

Yes it IS NOT the best normal type in the tier, and its sluggish speed leaves it behind among other normies down here. But hey, it's a not a bad mon at all and its cb set is an excellent wallbreaker and fits very well on normal spam teams and pretty much punishes other bulkier archetypes due to its power and cool abilities, and its movepool wasnt so bad either as it has a great coverage to punish switches and can even pivot out of its threats, and could synergize to other mons with stuff like VS/Uturn/Parting Shot to form a cool volturn normal spam this gen, especially that swellow is gone.

calcs
Adaptability
252+ Atk Choice Band Gumshoos Frustration vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Vileplume: 195-231 (55 - 65.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery

252+ Atk Choice Band Gumshoos Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Rhydon: 182-216 (43.9 - 52.1%) -- 14.8% chance to 2HKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Gumshoos Frustration vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Vikavolt: 189-223 (52.9 - 62.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Gumshoos Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gourgeist-Super: 160-190 (42.7 - 50.8%) -- 3.9% chance to 2HKO (Assuming colbur is eaten)

Stakeout Boosted

252+ Atk Choice Band Gumshoos Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Rhydon: 364-430 (87.9 - 103.8%) -- 25% chance to OHKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Gumshoos Frustration vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Vileplume: 390-459 (110.1 - 129.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Gumshoos Frustration vs. 252 HP / 240+ Def Miltank: 342-403 (86.8 - 102.2%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO


X​

Yeah it slow, not so bulky, but slow bands in ORAS existed and hits hard (But this one bombs with great plays). Just pair it with cool mons like mesprit, which supports it with Rocks, Healing wish, and even T-Wave so it could break things even more. Cool mon overall but still needs the right support.
 
toucannon.gif

Toucannon @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Skill Link
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpDef / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Brave Bird
- Rock Blast
- Bullet Seed
- Return/U-Turn
cannon
252 Atk Toucannon Bullet Seed (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Rhydon: 320-380 (77.2 - 91.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Toucannon Bullet Seed (5 hits) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Lanturn: 400-480 (102.3 - 122.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Toucannon Bullet Seed (5 hits) vs. 40 HP / 140 Def Lanturn: 340-400 (84.7 - 99.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Toucannon Bullet Seed (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 244+ Def Gastrodon: 480-580 (112.6 - 136.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 Atk Toucannon Rock Blast (5 hits) vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Scyther: 440-520 (128.2 - 151.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Toucannon Brave Bird vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Scyther: 300-354 (87.4 - 103.2%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO

252 Atk Toucannon Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 108 Def Hariyama: 476-564 (110.9 - 131.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 Atk Toucannon Bullet Seed (5 hits) vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Politoed: 330-390 (86.1 - 101.8%) -- approx. 6.3% chance to OHKO

252 Atk Toucannon Rock Blast (5 hits) vs. 64 HP / 0 Def Magmortar: 360-430 (117.2 - 140%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Toucannon Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Magmortar: 258-304 (88.6 - 104.4%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
this bird hits hard, and skill link is a good ability when you get rock blast and bullet seed, which hit a lot hard. bullet seed can OHKO most of the water types and rock types in the tier, if not chunk them. rock blast is good coverage for scyther and it OHKOs magmortar. brave bird and return are both strong stabs, and u-turn can be substituted if you want a more hit and run style of play. the big issue with toucannon though is that it has flying type, which means that you have to have constant rapid spin coverage for it to work, especially when you're running brave bird as your flying STAB. all in all, i think scarf toucannon is actually not that terrible if it's put with the right team, and assuming rock blast doesn't miss.
 
vPixel said:
toucannon.gif

Toucannon @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Skill Link
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpDef / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Brave Bird
- Rock Blast
- Bullet Seed
- Return/U-Turn
cannon
252 Atk Toucannon Bullet Seed (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Rhydon: 320-380 (77.2 - 91.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Toucannon Bullet Seed (5 hits) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Lanturn: 400-480 (102.3 - 122.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Toucannon Bullet Seed (5 hits) vs. 40 HP / 140 Def Lanturn: 340-400 (84.7 - 99.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Toucannon Bullet Seed (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 244+ Def Gastrodon: 480-580 (112.6 - 136.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 Atk Toucannon Rock Blast (5 hits) vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Scyther: 440-520 (128.2 - 151.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Toucannon Brave Bird vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Scyther: 300-354 (87.4 - 103.2%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO

252 Atk Toucannon Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 108 Def Hariyama: 476-564 (110.9 - 131.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 Atk Toucannon Bullet Seed (5 hits) vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Politoed: 330-390 (86.1 - 101.8%) -- approx. 6.3% chance to OHKO

252 Atk Toucannon Rock Blast (5 hits) vs. 64 HP / 0 Def Magmortar: 360-430 (117.2 - 140%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Toucannon Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Magmortar: 258-304 (88.6 - 104.4%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
this bird hits hard, and skill link is a good ability when you get rock blast and bullet seed, which hit a lot hard. bullet seed can OHKO most of the water types and rock types in the tier, if not chunk them. rock blast is good coverage for scyther and it OHKOs magmortar. brave bird and return are both strong stabs, and u-turn can be substituted if you want a more hit and run style of play. the big issue with toucannon though is that it has flying type, which means that you have to have constant rapid spin coverage for it to work, especially when you're running brave bird as your flying STAB. all in all, i think scarf toucannon is actually not that terrible if it's put with the right team, and assuming rock blast doesn't miss.

IMO Dordrio outclasses this mon if you're gonna go with its full physically moveset. Dodrio learns Jump Kick to hit rock and steel types while Toucannon needs Overheat to get past mons like Steelix, Klinklang and Silvally-Steel. What Toucannon has over Dodrio is Boomburst and Overheat and that's why you should go with its mixed set: Boomburst - Brave Brid - Overheat - Bullet Seed / Roost / U-turn / Return.
 
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Linoone @ Aguav Berry
Ability: Gluttony
EVs: 164 HP / 252 Atk / 48 Def / 44 SpD (EVs are team dependent/whatever you need)
Adamant Nature
- Belly Drum
- Extreme Speed
- Seed Bomb
- Shadow Claw

Since people are talking about normal types, I guess Linoone can get more spotlight in the S/M Meta. It's not directly buffed, but random berries does. Things like Aguav paired with Gluttony gives Linoone a 50% heal instead of the old Sitrus which only gives 25%. This improvement makes Linoone a more effective and better sweeper than before and tanks more hits, and could see some more use in the upcoming meta.

A Replay vs carcy (thanks for testing with me):
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7pokebankou-500022455
 
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Skelos said:
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Linoone @ Aguav Berry
Ability: Gluttony
EVs: 164 HP / 252 Atk / 48 Def / 44 SpD (EVs are team dependent/whatever you need)
Adamant Nature
- Belly Drum
- Extreme Speed
- Seed Bomb
- Shadow Claw

Since people are talking about normal types, I guess Linoone can get more spotlight in the S/M Meta. It's not directly buffed, but random berries does. Things like Aguav paired with Gluttony gives Linoone a 50% heal instead of the old Sitrus which only gives 25%. This improvement makes Linoone a more effective and better sweeper than before and tanks more hits, and could see some more use in the upcoming meta.
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This reminds me of E-killer Arceus all the way from Ubers. Too bad Linoone didn't get swords dance. On another note, could bibarel work due to simple + swords dance + aqua jet. This is worse than azumarill, crawdaunt, or feraligatr (but those were higher than NU last gen). Bibarel could work as a boosted priority sweeper, especially because psychic terrain is unlikely to see much use in NU.
Speaking of arceus analogues, I wonder which silvally formes will come to NU. I am thinking that ice, fire, psychic, grass, and bug silvally will come to NU because those are poor defensive types. Silvally dark might also come here if RU takes persian-alola (fur coat and higher speed). Silvally's best niche could be a bulky attacker with parting shot.
 
guan123 said:
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This reminds me of E-killer Arceus all the way from Ubers. Too bad Linoone didn't get swords dance. On another note, could bibarel work due to simple + swords dance + aqua jet. This is worse than azumarill, crawdaunt, or feraligatr (but those were higher than NU last gen). Bibarel could work as a boosted priority sweeper, especially because psychic terrain is unlikely to see much use in NU.
Speaking of arceus analogues, I wonder which silvally formes will come to NU. I am thinking that ice, fire, psychic, grass, and bug silvally will come to NU because those are poor defensive types. Silvally dark might also come here if RU takes persian-alola (fur coat and higher speed). Silvally's best niche could be a bulky attacker with parting shot.
Hey just to drop my 2 cents, I really dont think that any silvally forme is not going to be nu, since It lacks speed, power and reliable recovery. I actually think its pre evolved forme is better due to having all the same stats as silvally besides speed (which actually doesnt matter much) and the ability to run eviolite and actually having the ability to run SD and be threatning. So yeah just that all silvally formes are going to be nu IMO.
 
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Toucannon @ Life Orb
Ability: Skill Link
EVs: 192 Atk / 64 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Brave Bird
- Bullet Seed
- Overheat
- Boomburst

Back again with a new go-to set for this angry bird. I wanted to clear some things up as this mon doesn't get the attention it deserves. I think it's one of the most exciting mixed attackers we got with the new generation as it packs hard-hitting high basepower moves. With its big attack stat of 120, Brave Bird is its main attacking move hitting hard against neutral targets. Bullet Seed, its main selling point, hits Flying- and Normal resists hard. Usual resists like Regirock and Tank Rhydon are much less threatening for it (see calcs). Overheat is mainly used to hit Steel types like Steelix and Klinklang. Finally, Boomburst lets it deal with physically bulky mons like Miltank, Mesprit and probably other ones i can't think of at the moment.

Max speed with a positive speed nature lets it outspeed - and OHKO in the process(see calcs) - stuff like Samurott, Ludicolo and Barbaracle. 64 SpA EVs nets the 2HKO on Steelix after the -2 drop. The rest goes in Atk. I tested it using a Life Orb but I think Expert Belt might be a neat option to run on it.

wall of calcs
192 Atk Life Orb Toucannon Bullet Seed (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 16+ Def Regirock: 170-210 (46.7 - 57.6%) -- approx. 99.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
192 Atk Life Orb Toucannon Bullet Seed (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Rhydon: 390-470 (94.2 - 113.5%) -- approx. 93.8% chance to OHKO
192 Atk Life Orb Toucannon Bullet Seed (5 hits) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Samurott: 365-440 (110.2 - 132.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
192 Atk Life Orb Toucannon Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Ludicolo: 616-728 (204.6 - 241.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
192 Atk Life Orb Toucannon Bullet Seed (5 hits) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Barbaracle: 570-700 (200 - 245.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
64 SpA Life Orb Toucannon Overheat vs. 244 HP / 128 SpD Steelix: 250-294 (71 - 83.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
64 SpA Life Orb Toucannon Overheat vs. 80 HP / 0 SpD Klinklang: 239-283 (85 - 100.7%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
64 SpA Life Orb Toucannon Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Miltank: 224-265 (56.8 - 67.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
64 SpA Life Orb Toucannon Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mesprit: 161-191 (44.2 - 52.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
 
If alolan Dugtrio ever falls down here, could this work as a one-man sand wrecker?
Dugtrio-Alola @ Rockium Z
Ability: Sand Force
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Sandstorm
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake
- Iron Head/Sucker Punch/Memento
I know what you're thinking: Dugtrio is too frail to set up. But it forces many pokemon out. So sandstorm on something that alolan Dugtrio forces out.
Articuno @ Icium Z/Waterium Z
Ability: Snow Cloak
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hail/Rain Dance
- Blizzard/Freeze-Dry
- Hurricane
- Roost/U-turn
Again, a one-mon weather sweeper. A bit like UU or RU's z-sunny day Moltres.
 
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lycanroc-midnight.gif

Lycanroc-Midnight @ Focus Sash
Ability: Vital Spirit
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Taunt
- Stone Edge
- Counter

Lycanroc-Midnight is a pretty cool anti-lead/suicide lead, having good enough speed to outspeed most hazard setters and Taunt them, as well as Counter to get rid of things like Steelix and Rhydon, as well as Fighting types like Passiman and Sawk who insist on just attacking. It's not really that good, but still a pretty cool mon for offense to get rid of pesky Lixs and Fighting types.
Other options include Rock Tomb, Swagger and Reversal. Rock Tomb is more suicide-leady, since you trade a lot of power to lower a Pokemon's speed for another mon to take advantage of, Swagger is hella cheap but you can use that, and Reversal eases up a bit on prediction vs. Lix and Rhydon, since there is little opportunity cost for Taunting turn 1 for when they EQ, as with Reversal, you can at least get off 60-65% at 1%, though completely eliminating Steelix and Rhydon is also very appealing. As for abilities, it's a toss up between Vital Spirit or No Guard. Vital Spirit lets it absorb Vivillon's Sleep Powder and Jynx's Lovely Kiss and kill back if they dare try and put you to sleep instead of switching out which is very useful, while No Guard lets it spam Stone Edge(or Rock Tomb) without fear of missing.

Good partners for Lycanroc-Midnight are Flying types like Scyther, Vivillon, Archeops, and Swellow that all appreciate the above mentioned two mons gone in order for them to clean up and/or set-up and sweep. Since this set can also lure and kill most Fighting types if you got Counter, you can use Ice and Normal types that appreciate mons like Gurdurr and Hariyama gone in order to destroy the other team. Rapid Spinners like Komala and Hitmonchan are good too if you would prefer to keep Lycanroc as a last-ditch check to physical attackers.
 
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