But that's not the point. It may be able to beat them one-on-one yeah; but that wasn't what I was saying. I was saying the utility things like Rhydon and Golem bring are more valuable to teams in comparison. Also Mudsdale gets smashed by SD Rhydon.
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Pokémon Mudsdale
- Thread starter Elajah
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To be honest, they're not even that comparable. Rhydon and Golem both have Rock-typing, which gives them weaknesses to Steel, Fighting, and Ground and doubles their weaknesses to Water and Grass. That's a lot of typing problems that Mudsdale doesn't have to deal with. There's also the utility of Stamina to think about. After one boost, Mudsdale isn't a far cry from Eviolite Rhydon in terms of physical bulk, especially when you factor in that Mudsdale can hold Leftovers. With two or more boosts, it's a lot bulkier. Meanwhile, Golem is only marginally more physically bulky than Mudsdale even without Stamina and significantly less specially bulky, so it's even less comparable. Mudsdale will obviously appreciate getting Stealth Rock when tutors come out, but as it stands, its typing and Stamina should be more than enough to let it stand apart from Rhydon and Golem.
Well, Stamina makes it a nasty switch-in to multihit moves so maybe it can be used in tandem with a Substitute user that tends to attract that sort of thing? It might be valuable if the metagame somehow ends up being ridiculously Rock Blast heavy...
I don't have experience in the Gen 7 meta (I'm sticking with having fun in-game until tiers are decently sorted) but I'm a little surprised that the buff to the confusion berries here. They now heal 50% instead of 12.5%, which is huge. You can also use a Pokémon's nature to manipulate which Berry you can put on to guarantee no confusion. Mudsdale would really benefit from an automatic 50% recovery, even if it's a one-time use. Mudsdale desperately needed longetivity to function, which these berries give. Alternatively, you could cause confusion on purpose, since in theory (unconfirmed) Mudsdale would take very little damage from the confusion recoil and possibly gain an additional defense boost from said recoil! I think this possibility should be explored.
EDIT: These berries, as I found out recently, only activate at 25% health instead of 50%. This may pose an issue, but if Mudsdale is capable of surviving to 25%, healing 50% is more than worthwhile in my opinion.
EDIT: These berries, as I found out recently, only activate at 25% health instead of 50%. This may pose an issue, but if Mudsdale is capable of surviving to 25%, healing 50% is more than worthwhile in my opinion.
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I have a Mudsdale on my team right now, and I do have to say, it is a bit of a shame that Mudsdale has such a poor movepool. Ultimately, I think that is its biggest shortcoming overall. If it had access to better coverage moves or some form of recovery outside of rest, I think it would be more reliable. So far, I think that an Assault Vest is your best bet, as Mudsdale really needs all the Special def it can get. I also would recommend Heavy Slam as a potential move, as it is a pretty bulky Pokemon.
However, I do think it has potential with its ability Stamina. I can see as a great way to sponge strong physical hits. If you put investment into its Special Defense, you can probably get a lot more milage out of it than people give it credit for. I'm thinking it may have a place in UU or RU, but we will have to see. Let's hope the next Pokemon game will grace us with a move tutor that will give us some better moves for Mudsdale.
However, I do think it has potential with its ability Stamina. I can see as a great way to sponge strong physical hits. If you put investment into its Special Defense, you can probably get a lot more milage out of it than people give it credit for. I'm thinking it may have a place in UU or RU, but we will have to see. Let's hope the next Pokemon game will grace us with a move tutor that will give us some better moves for Mudsdale.
I'm surprised this guy seems to be seen as kind of weak. Admittedly, I've yet to really delve into competitive battling for this gen beyond the Random Battles, but it seems like Mudsdale should have a lot of potential with the stamina ability. I do think it might actually work best in doubles with some kind of skill link or beat up strategy, but its singles ability shouldn't be underestimated. Like others have mentioned, an AV set is probably the best option for now. It would be nice if it got some utility moves or a little more coverage, but I still think it can work well.
Mudsdale @ Assault Vest
Ability: Stamina
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Defense
Adamant/Impish/Careful Nature
- Earthquake/Bulldoze
- Close Combat/Superpower/Low Sweep
- Heavy Slam
- Rock Slide/Payback/Body Slam
This isn't super different from other sets, but I did want to show some different options to consider. Bulldoze is a lot weaker, but it is still STAB off a 125 Attack and has the effect of slowing down your opponent so you've got that speed control game going. Both CC and SP are quite powerful, but the defense drops one each kind of go against what you're trying to accomplish with Mudsdale (mainly being a bulky tank) so Low Sweep is something to look at cause again you can lower the speed of an opponent and potentially force a switch. Heavy Slam is a great move since you are so heavy, and will more often than hit with a 120 BP move, which'll smash most fairies.
Rock Slide deals with Flying types, obviously, like the Charizards of the world and such, which is handy. It is essentially EdgeQuake coverage which is quote good. Payback works since you are gonna hit last most every turn, unless you are running trick room, then one of the two other moves would be best. Body Slam doesn't get you super effective hits obviously, but it will still hit hard with the chance to paralyze. Mainly I'm trying to think of ways to speed control with this mudsdale as well as just hit hard and tank hits.
The EVs and nature can be adjusted as needed. I personally think what is there is best, but if you wanted to remove some attack EVs and make it more specially or physically defensive as needed, it can definitely work. Same with the nature. Adamant is best just for dealing damage, but if you wanted to do some kind of mixed spread with a impish or careful nature depending, it is an option to be sure.
Sadly, there's not a ton else Mudsdale can do for now, though I do think the AV set works. I did want to try and piece together some kind of utility set for our horsey bud.
Mudsdale @ Smooth Rock/Leftovers/Chesto Berry
Ability: Stamina
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Sp.Def
Relaxed Nature
- Sandstorm
- Roar/Toxic
- Earthquake
- Rest/Substitute/Rock Slide
Basically a discount hippowdon set, which I don't think is the greatest use of Mudsdale. If you want an alternate sand-setter, then Mudsdale can potentially work. Ideally, you'd want to set sand, then decide what to do depending on what moves you choose. I think Roar works for the phazing capabilities. If you already have stealth rock up, then phazing that and the chip damage from sandstorm can be annoyance. Toxic can work if you're trying to play a more stallier game, and spreading status is never bad. You want Earthquake for STAB, obviously, then the last move is up to you, and dictates what item you use. Rest is your only form of recovery, sadly, so a chesto-resto set can work in conjunction with Stamina. You can take a few physical hits, rest, and then wake up at full health with your defense boosts.
Substitute is an option just to add to your overall bulky nature. When using substitute, leftovers will be your preferred option for that sustainability. Rock Slide is an option just for the sake of coverage, and so flying types don't completely wall you out. Another item choice that won't lead you astray is smooth rock, just to extend sandstorm. That works best obviously when making a strict sand team so do be sure to keep that in mind.
The EVs are best suited for your mixed bulk, I would say. With the stamina ability, your defense will be rising naturally anyway, so it's best to go full sp. defense though a relaxed nature will give your defense that slight boost which can be really useful. As before, if you did want to adjust to be physically defensive from the get-go, you are free to. Ultimately, I do feel like the AV set is probably the best option, but this certainly isn't a terrible set either.
Mudsdale @ Assault Vest
Ability: Stamina
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Defense
Adamant/Impish/Careful Nature
- Earthquake/Bulldoze
- Close Combat/Superpower/Low Sweep
- Heavy Slam
- Rock Slide/Payback/Body Slam
This isn't super different from other sets, but I did want to show some different options to consider. Bulldoze is a lot weaker, but it is still STAB off a 125 Attack and has the effect of slowing down your opponent so you've got that speed control game going. Both CC and SP are quite powerful, but the defense drops one each kind of go against what you're trying to accomplish with Mudsdale (mainly being a bulky tank) so Low Sweep is something to look at cause again you can lower the speed of an opponent and potentially force a switch. Heavy Slam is a great move since you are so heavy, and will more often than hit with a 120 BP move, which'll smash most fairies.
Rock Slide deals with Flying types, obviously, like the Charizards of the world and such, which is handy. It is essentially EdgeQuake coverage which is quote good. Payback works since you are gonna hit last most every turn, unless you are running trick room, then one of the two other moves would be best. Body Slam doesn't get you super effective hits obviously, but it will still hit hard with the chance to paralyze. Mainly I'm trying to think of ways to speed control with this mudsdale as well as just hit hard and tank hits.
The EVs and nature can be adjusted as needed. I personally think what is there is best, but if you wanted to remove some attack EVs and make it more specially or physically defensive as needed, it can definitely work. Same with the nature. Adamant is best just for dealing damage, but if you wanted to do some kind of mixed spread with a impish or careful nature depending, it is an option to be sure.
Sadly, there's not a ton else Mudsdale can do for now, though I do think the AV set works. I did want to try and piece together some kind of utility set for our horsey bud.
Mudsdale @ Smooth Rock/Leftovers/Chesto Berry
Ability: Stamina
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Sp.Def
Relaxed Nature
- Sandstorm
- Roar/Toxic
- Earthquake
- Rest/Substitute/Rock Slide
Basically a discount hippowdon set, which I don't think is the greatest use of Mudsdale. If you want an alternate sand-setter, then Mudsdale can potentially work. Ideally, you'd want to set sand, then decide what to do depending on what moves you choose. I think Roar works for the phazing capabilities. If you already have stealth rock up, then phazing that and the chip damage from sandstorm can be annoyance. Toxic can work if you're trying to play a more stallier game, and spreading status is never bad. You want Earthquake for STAB, obviously, then the last move is up to you, and dictates what item you use. Rest is your only form of recovery, sadly, so a chesto-resto set can work in conjunction with Stamina. You can take a few physical hits, rest, and then wake up at full health with your defense boosts.
Substitute is an option just to add to your overall bulky nature. When using substitute, leftovers will be your preferred option for that sustainability. Rock Slide is an option just for the sake of coverage, and so flying types don't completely wall you out. Another item choice that won't lead you astray is smooth rock, just to extend sandstorm. That works best obviously when making a strict sand team so do be sure to keep that in mind.
The EVs are best suited for your mixed bulk, I would say. With the stamina ability, your defense will be rising naturally anyway, so it's best to go full sp. defense though a relaxed nature will give your defense that slight boost which can be really useful. As before, if you did want to adjust to be physically defensive from the get-go, you are free to. Ultimately, I do feel like the AV set is probably the best option, but this certainly isn't a terrible set either.
Agreeing with Yogibears here, on paper Mudsdale has impressive bulk, and that ability is sort of cool, but in practice Mudsdale doesnt achieve anything noteable that cant be done by a Pokemon with better utility. You've got Hippowdown in OU with Stealth Rock and Recovery, Rhydon in NU which provides Stealth Rock, and the invaluable Normal / Flying resistances to teams (The extra water / grass weakness is irrelevant since Mudsdale is still taking a huge amount from those attacks just the same ), and stuff like Golem or Piloswine which can pull off bulkier sets as well as proving more key resistances and utility with rocks + priority. It also doesnt help that it has quite a shallow movepool. In a vacuum Mudsdale isnt a bad pokemon per se, its just that when you compare it to what we currently have it falls flat because its simply not very unique. (Stamina is nice, but not something that justifies Mudsdale over more reliable / practical choices.
In general Mudsdale is really going to appreciate getting Stealth Rock from the move tutors (if it's lucky enough to recieve it), but at the moment there's little to no reason to really use this Pokemon in any tier higher than PU.
Yeah, I would imagine that would be best for maximum tankiness, though I do think some attack investment is needed as well, since otherwise uninvested unboosted 125 attack isn't going to exactly be amazing. That is its best niche, I think. Cause 85 Sp. Defense, while not great, is workable on its own, and even better with an assault vest. That's what it has over like golem or rhydon (its special bulk is eviolite-dependent) or other rock/ground types at the moment. That sort of mixed bulk. So making the most out of that is best for it.
I will say that it does lack utility in comparison to those other pokemon. It's fairly one-note, so I can definitely see why you would want to use other rock/ground types, but PU just seems a bit low as an expectation. It's still a hard-hitting bulky mon with high powered base moves, (barring rock slide). Things aren't going to want to switch in on it. Really, at the moment, it just needs stealth rocks or some kind of recovery, and it'll be a better Hippowdon.
Easily my favorite Pokemon from a gen brimming with awesome Mons. I really hope he gets access to Stealth Rock by tutor next game. If he got that, I think he'd immediatly be UU or even BL. The bulk is real and the natural power is relevant. I love Stamina, was the most fun ability I ever played with in game!
I have been messing around with a max HP max Sp. Def Mudsdale with Rest, Earthquake, Heavy Slam and Toxic. You switch in on a resisted hit (physical or special), Toxic the switch in, Rest when you need to. I was originally doing Chesto/Rest, but I feel like Clerics are more important than ever this gen and once you start stacking Defense, max HP/maxSpDef doesn't die fast. He's good and fun, but I don't know if he's a real threat.
I have been messing around with a max HP max Sp. Def Mudsdale with Rest, Earthquake, Heavy Slam and Toxic. You switch in on a resisted hit (physical or special), Toxic the switch in, Rest when you need to. I was originally doing Chesto/Rest, but I feel like Clerics are more important than ever this gen and once you start stacking Defense, max HP/maxSpDef doesn't die fast. He's good and fun, but I don't know if he's a real threat.
After testing Mudsdale out in Alpha UU, he seems to be made for the role of physical tank. 100/100/85 isn't fantastic bulk, but it means you can tank a neutral hit from almost anything, even before any Stamina boosts. Speaking of which, Stamina and a ground typing makes Mudsdale very good at switching into damage, and subsequently forcing a switch.
His biggest draws are his movepool and speed tier. Mudsdale has no reliable recovery outside of Rest, and can't use SR (yet, might change when BP move tutors return). He can phaze with Roar though, and has access to a pseudo edgequake with Rock Slide over Stone Edge. Having 35 base speed may not sound like much of a difference at that low a tier, but it does matter when facing other slow attackers. Golisopod and Araquanid both outspeed Mudsdale, and both can easily blow him away with water STAB and high attacking stats.
I've used a couple Mudsdale sets, and I have to say that an offensive Restalk/RestoChesto set works best for me.
Mudsdale @ Leftovers/Chesto Berry
252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Sp.Def
Adamant
-Earthquake
-Rock Slide
-Rest
-Sleep Talk/Toxic/Roar/Close Combat
The main purpose of this set is to switch into a physical attack, and do some damage to a switch-in. I didn't make any specific calcs for the EVs, so feel free to say any particular thresholds that you'd want to counter certain threats. I decided to go for damage over defense, as with +1 Mudsdale already rivals the bulk of max defense Donphan. Restalk gives me a way to recover after switching in and getting 1-2 Stamina boosts, letting me keep him healthy for future use or to go and do as much damage as I can. If you're going for RestoChesto, then you can replace Sleep Talk with either a utility or coverage move.
In a team, Mudsdale loves nothing more than health support. Z-Parting Shot is particularly good, as it lets him get full health and gets to eat a -1 attack for a free stamina boost. In return, Mudsdale works best in doing what ground types do best: switching into rock and electric attacks. He's pretty much Donphan in that way, but sacrifices utility for longevity and hitting power.
Overall, I was quite surprised at how effective Mudsdale is at his role. If it wasn't for his ability letting him blanket check physical attackers, I wouldn't be surprised of he ended up in RU instead. In the future, I could see Mudsdale getting better with access to Stealth Rock. The best way to send him to OU is to make him Hippowdon 2.0, and give Mudsdale a recovery option outside of Rest.
His biggest draws are his movepool and speed tier. Mudsdale has no reliable recovery outside of Rest, and can't use SR (yet, might change when BP move tutors return). He can phaze with Roar though, and has access to a pseudo edgequake with Rock Slide over Stone Edge. Having 35 base speed may not sound like much of a difference at that low a tier, but it does matter when facing other slow attackers. Golisopod and Araquanid both outspeed Mudsdale, and both can easily blow him away with water STAB and high attacking stats.
I've used a couple Mudsdale sets, and I have to say that an offensive Restalk/RestoChesto set works best for me.
Mudsdale @ Leftovers/Chesto Berry
252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Sp.Def
Adamant
-Earthquake
-Rock Slide
-Rest
-Sleep Talk/Toxic/Roar/Close Combat
The main purpose of this set is to switch into a physical attack, and do some damage to a switch-in. I didn't make any specific calcs for the EVs, so feel free to say any particular thresholds that you'd want to counter certain threats. I decided to go for damage over defense, as with +1 Mudsdale already rivals the bulk of max defense Donphan. Restalk gives me a way to recover after switching in and getting 1-2 Stamina boosts, letting me keep him healthy for future use or to go and do as much damage as I can. If you're going for RestoChesto, then you can replace Sleep Talk with either a utility or coverage move.
In a team, Mudsdale loves nothing more than health support. Z-Parting Shot is particularly good, as it lets him get full health and gets to eat a -1 attack for a free stamina boost. In return, Mudsdale works best in doing what ground types do best: switching into rock and electric attacks. He's pretty much Donphan in that way, but sacrifices utility for longevity and hitting power.
Overall, I was quite surprised at how effective Mudsdale is at his role. If it wasn't for his ability letting him blanket check physical attackers, I wouldn't be surprised of he ended up in RU instead. In the future, I could see Mudsdale getting better with access to Stealth Rock. The best way to send him to OU is to make him Hippowdon 2.0, and give Mudsdale a recovery option outside of Rest.
Unfortunately, he'll never get any recovery, I think. Slack Off goes against the nature of it being a hardworker. Shore Up would be cool since he's ground but that's never gonna happen. I guess Rest does, too, but everyone who can learn TMs has always had access to that. I think Rocks will be the only advantage he gains (if they even give it to him). I think he still fits in UU at least, because he can get very tanky very fast and hits hard with access to a lot of high powered moves.
morning sun would be cool on it
Yeah, I'd like that. Wakes up early to get to work. Ah well, I think he's just destined to be lower tier.
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