NOC Why is there a gun in my popcorn? GAME OVER SCUM WIN

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Before my next big post, i have something to say on the topic of the townreads on me. A couple of you seem to really be overvaluing my stance on shubaka. All i did was be the first to point out "town!shub doesn't idle THIS badly", which should've been clear to anyone who's played a game with town!shub. It's not like i hardcore tunneled on them or anything (not that i could... only one game-relevant post like c'mon how do you tunnel that which isn't even there? and i'm not exactly the tunneling type either). Just a word of caution for any future reads, don't overvalue one thing

Anywho, speaking of the aforementioned big post, since we already have someone about to ISO US (my other null on my readslist besides leet), i'm going to do Yeti next since opinions on her seem to be.. complicated, and she's one of the hardest to read players for me here (i mean my reasoning for my read on her was mostly gut "genuine frustration"). Plus without what Empoof deems a good enough defense, she's next shot, so i should probably get this done before that shot actually becomes a thing, figure out if i'm on board with this or if it's a bad idea

But first i'm playing Overwatch since i need to farm my arcade loot boxes this week before it's too late ^^;
 
TFW people call haruno smart then he goes and shoots one of the towniest players in the game for no reason
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hey Empoof this is why your hot take reads with absolutely no reasoning whatsoever are bad, unhelpful, and scummy:

Haruno said:
Aight fuck you all. I cannot resist the urge to shoot twin. Expect that in an hour. Shitter did shit all game which isn't like him. If twin kill is a mafia then I'm shooting flyn next 100%. Will post potential reasonin later TY
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only confirmed-town haruno posts this, doesn't post potential reasoning, misfires, and now we have no idea why he feels twin mafia = flyhn mafia or why he didn't shoot twin, or flyhn, over you.

if you dont post your mindset behind a read, town has nothing to go on if you misfire like a buffoon. you were a terrible third shot for haruno to have made and we don't even know why he did it.

i am sure some idiot is going to be like "if you tell the scum why you read them X way they will change it and it'll be easier for them to hide" blathering here

but the major key here is, that change in behavior................... is a scumtell

the narrower of a window you can put scum and their "acceptable" town-posing behaviors in, the better, because it's much easier for them to crack.

random "x is town/scum" reads with no reason are only beneficial to scum, not town, as you can see from haruno completely boozling his shot.

why did haruno consider you worse than flyhn, why did he consider it retarded "lock town" flyhn was still alive? we will never know. which is why the one-liner playstyle is factually harmful to the village.

i agree with haruno that having a "lock town" is shady af, only scum should be in the mindset of having "lock towns" because they do actually know who else is town. town always need to be reconsidering the game and their reads or they will tunnel to defeat, or get outplayed by like, 1 good flyhn post. lock town is just a bad mentality imo if you're actually town. it seems to have sabotaged haruno here so, hey. chew on that.
 
The requested US iso.
1: Living winners stuff, and agreeing that leets first theory sucks, but its nice to see him doing something analytical.
> Nothing wrong here, and I agree.
2: Says that hes got some other stuff on his plate, and that there's no lynch so there's nothing to pressure [idlers and non-contributors, I presume] off of. Also gives opinions of everyone playing via readslist.
> People called him out on hypocrisy, and made FoSes. I think he was trying to 'lead the village' here, but if I look at readslists starting from p18, he's not on anyone's TRs, so...a fail?
3: People should post comprehensive lists of reads, since there's not much to fear unless ur mafia.
> It was day /one/ when he posted this. Yes, everyone should be contributing, but not when there's nothing to read. More pseudo-votes, and I think Jalmont replied? Maybe not towards this post, but one of US's other pressury posts.
4: Replies to Asek, Twin and FCC. In FCC's reply US says that FCC isn't posting much original stuff.
> Created somewhat angry? replies from the three, but thankfully it didn't dissolve into something like FH/Hitmonleet's previous 'war'.
5: Replies to Asek again, pressuring him to post more.
> Comeback from Asek, not much to see here.
6, 7: More replies, nothing to see here.

a five-page pause, then post number 8:
says that his readslist is the only useful post in the entire thread. And then says that you should not be tunneling, not posting or making a stance, or not thinking things from an unattached perspective in a NOC. Updates his readslist, which includes pressuring idlers even more, claiming they have guaranteed less on their plate than he does.
> Well this was just uncalled for. If US and/or Yeti hadn't explained why he wasn't posting as often as he normally would, I'm pretty sure quite a few of us would've scumread/suggested him to be put in the shot pool. Basically US saying that all idlers are scum (not mafia scum, literal scum). I think he wanted some of us to scumhunt based on the three things you shouldn't be doing in a NOC, but none of us have raised those as evidence for a FoS, so fail I guess. Another possible attempt at 'leading the village.'
Another long pause
9: Seems to be less ragey this time, and states opinions on connections between a few players, along with pressuring idlers. its not as aggresive as previous pressures tho.
> Actually contributing instead of just pressuring idlers or saying what you shouldn't be doing in a NOC. Keep posting stuff like this, it's helping the discussion see new angles.

So all in all, wtf has US been doing?
- Pressuring idlers
- Trying to lead this 'village'. Its failing
- Making readslists
- VERY RECENTLY, pointing out stuff we haven't talked about yet.

Town lean. IF empoof makes good on his threat, and depending on whether Yeti is Town or Scum, this could change very easily. And yes, he's a massive hypocrite, but that doesn't necessarily mean scum. It just means that he sux.
 
Explanation for SRing Yeti and FH

Yeti: Actually not as scumlocky as I thought. She's actually been pretty helpful, but like US, keeps pressuring idlers. Maybe theyre scumbuddies, maybe this is what they always do in NOCs, idk. Some of the walls she posts are just rage against someone who FoSed/scumread+reasoning her. The most recent issue though: She's trying to make herself townlock. Remember how haruno tried to keep getting the gun? Granted, we were actually wrong about him being mafia, but twice in the same game? ...Probably not. Scummy.
FH: One-lining, bandwagoning, and recently, extreme tunneling. Like I said in my first non-vote post(although this was targeted towards empoof): racking up post count and appearing like a vocal town.
oh, and Tinfoil Hat Time:
FH and Hitmon are scum bussing one another, which would explain why they are zeroing in on one another ONLY.
 
anyway lets get to it

Thetwinmasters are you trying to get the gun by scummily idling so you can also instantly misfire or can you just not be bothered to try and fake it as town this game? like could you be any less helpful and vocal? if its the former thanks for being absolutely useless to this village you nitwit, maybe try explaining your reads once in a while

Jalmont hey buddy what's up, post a reads list or you'll move up to "priority shots" cause i really don't think your town game is this low-quality, i've seen you do a lot better. you're not a bad player so i'd like to hear your thoughts if you're town which have been pretty sparing. and you're clearly here, reading the thread, so you must have opinions about it. i want to know them.

Aura Guardian so you have a bunch of texas gunbearer posts but i feel like you've dropped off a bit in haruno's gunbearer phase and now you have 1 post that isn't ultimately relevant in empoof phase. you posted http://www.smogon.com/forums/thread...gunbearer-empoof.3599297/page-20#post-7291906 2 days ago. how have your reads changed in light of haruno's shot and empoof being cleaned and, y'know, everything else that's gone on in the thread since then. and why. please explain your reads progression from wednesday to now.

Blazade hey buddy what's up been a long time, have anything to contribute besides "yeah my activity is shootable?" do your best to explain why you think haruno would've found a connection between mafia!twin and mafia!flyhn, then why he would've felt mafia!poof was convincing enough to shoot.

UncleSam hey buddy speaking of people dropping off the radar you have anything to add? my lean town is shifting in the complete absence of sam posts to lean scum. just doesnt feel like his town game at all to be so useless.

Asek why do you think haruno felt twin, flyhn, and empoof were mafia (together) and what do you think of this assessment? his other shoot options included you, blazade and former hope. please include a read on blazade and former hope.

Former Hope who are your current suspects for scum and why do you think they could be a scumteam together?

MoodyCloud hey you're still in this game right? answer these questions: what do you consider the biggest scumtells in a noc to be? who is exhibiting them this game? why have you not been more vocal about these people so far?

Hitmonleet what do you prioritize when scumhunting and what do you find most often is a misleading "scumtell" done by town? what players in this game have exhibited either and what are your reads on them?

winter-delta if you had to shoot 1 each of twin/jalmont/blazade, ag/asek/josh, moody/dbw/fort, sam/fh/leet, which from each group would you pick, why, and who would you be angry i didnt give you the option to shoot in addition to that 1 person? which group contains 3 people you'd be very reluctant to shoot any of them?

Fort Colorcastle can you make more big posts or does your scumteam need more time to write them for you first? if you had to shoot 4 users, what 4 would they be, who would be the 5th, who never makes that list at this point in time, and why? what do you think is the best scumtell in a noc that indicates to you someone is mafia?

DeathByWobbuffet you're also still in the game right? why do you find my posts contentless? do you struggle with the definition of 'content' or do you just not like when town are too vocal? what is your position on the game? if you had to shoot 1 each of twin/jalmont/blazade, ag/asek/josh, moody/w-d/fort, sam/fh/leet, which from each group would you pick, why, and who would you be angry i didnt give you the option to shoot in addition to that 1 person? which group contains 3 people you'd be very reluctant to shoot any of them?

Flyhn you iso me thats a good look for you. if you dont do it and make up some bs activity excuse youre gonna move up a whole bunch in the shooting order though.

who else is in the game

Josh what do you think the scumtells with the highest success rate of being scum are and who is showing them? lowest success rate of being scum, who shows them?

Da Letter El who do you think the 4 best shots to make right now would be, why, and what would make someone else move into one of those slots?
 
I don't believe in scum tells. any scum tell that's anything near consistent becomes a tool scum can abuse. more importantly, ms players play EXTREMELY different as Empoof can attest to so any scum tell there would be different here.
 
Sigh Empoof was a retarded shot

I honestly don't really have the time to deal with this game indefinitely and if it's gonna be three days per shot for like 17 more shots then you can honestly just count me out because I have real life shit that's way more important than to read through blithering idiotic NOC reads that don't lead to anything because then the gunbearer just yolo shoots a universal townread anyway

From recent pages DLE seems to be putting in token effort only, Blazade is just straight afk I wonder if he's just in the same boat as me aka way more important stuff to do than play in a two month long noc where nothing you post has any meaning or value because some idiot shoots Empoof anyway like ?????

Hitmonleet I like from right here, and Fort Colorcastle I am still fucking baffled why no one has shot yet

Yeti is in her usual tone (which she takes as both mafia and town) but is kinda not pushing as much as I'm used to when she's town. That being said she's busy too irl so I don't really have any clue

Honestly what the fuck is there to even go off of in this game it's not like pushes or votes really matter if people are just gonna shoot random universal townreads anyway like what the fuck ever why should I even care just shoot me if that's gonna be what the rest of the village decides to do so that I can shoot my scumreads in an actual ten minute time window then get the fuck out of this game while cleaning someone who actually deserved to get shot

winter-delta made a really bad post a few posts ago with a random collection of unfounded assumptions loosely connected with inaccurate representations of my posts - then says I'm a town read despite that??? Idk that reads to me like 'I'm mafia and don't wanna paint X villager in too good a light but also don't want US to go after me' so ya I'd be tots down for a winter-delta shot rn

Jalmont looks bad to me too he doesn't give a shit to the point of it seems to me not caring whether a villager or a mafia is shot, which imo village!jalmont cares at least a little bit about which faction gets shot

That's all I've got for now imo Yeti is fine as a shot because she's a bit off and will probably actually listen to me if she's clean and gets shot so it's kinda a win/win from my perspective but at the same time I do think winter-delta, fort colorcastle, or jalmont would make better shots in terms of likelihood of being mafia. Blazade and DLE I'd give one more day a piece then just assume they're mafia and shoot them because both have been really uncaring this entire game
 
Yeti said:
anyway lets get to it
winter-delta if you had to shoot 1 each of twin/jalmont/blazade, ag/asek/josh, moody/dbw/fort, sam/fh/leet, which from each group would you pick, why, and who would you be angry i didnt give you the option to shoot in addition to that 1 person? which group contains 3 people you'd be very reluctant to shoot any of them?
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I'd shoot jalmont, he's done nothing throughout this game. I'd shoot fh since he's the most suspicious out of all three. I'd shoot moody, who's also done nothing. I'd shoot ag who at the very least is gonna listen to us unlike haruno. I don't have anyone I'm reluctant to shoot, if theyre town I die but idc, and if they're mafia, I get to keep shooting.
Also what did you mean by the 'angry' question?

also US why would I be afraid you'll get on my case (of idling, I presume)? You've been literally doing that to me+every idler from day 1. And if you're actually scum that's trying to remove yourself from the game because you don't want to play it, then...

Yo empoof free scumshot.
 
Yeti said:
so you have a bunch of texas gunbearer posts but i feel like you've dropped off a bit in haruno's gunbearer phase and now you have 1 post that isn't ultimately relevant in empoof phase. you posted http://www.smogon.com/forums/thread...gunbearer-empoof.3599297/page-20#post-7291906 2 days ago. how have your reads changed in light of haruno's shot and empoof being cleaned and, y'know, everything else that's gone on in the thread since then. and why. please explain your reads progression from wednesday to now.
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In part, there was some real life stuff, in part there was "oh, Haruno has it." resignation to opinions having almost no meaning to him, and after that read-everyone post, I was a little tired of analyzing everything. As for my reads changing, I haven't seen much that would change them. I mean, the idlers are more active now, so either my attempts to pressure them worked or they weren't needed. So, DLE and w-d are less bad in my book.

The biggest adjustment, though, is that Yeti and Sam are now both Scum in my book - that recent Sam post defending Yeti combined with Yeti's reply is setting off alarms in my head. If I had the gun right now, I'd just say shooting sam, then if that works, shooting yeti, too. Or the other way around. I might flip a coin on that.

Other adjustments are: I didn't like a lot of nulls from hitmonleet, so only leaning towny instead of just towny. Former Hope's reads post is also a little off - like putting the last mafia survivor into confidence. Yeah, I think Flyhn is probably town, but shubaka was an ideal target for bussing, so while I'm confident enough that I'd never shoot Flyhn myself, unless a lot of other evidence came to light.
 
"@Hitmonleet what do you prioritize when scumhunting and what do you find most often is a misleading "scumtell" done by town? what players in this game have exhibited either and what are your reads on them?"

As for what I prioritize when scumhunting more than anything, it's a player's rationale, their reason behind their thoughts. Just because they correctly found half of the Mafia doesn't mean anything if their reasons are half-baked. This is one of the primary reasons I scumread FH; his ideas don't have the logic behind it, they're lacking in the towny forethought.

As for misleading tells, it's my belief that two major ones are vocalness/aggression and stubbornness. People tend to think "oh, they're being harsh and brash, they must be mafia!" But some people just want and need their voices to be heard, and they think people won't listen unless they're loud and use a lot of braggadocio to get attention. This is how I think that Josh tends to play, along with Haruno (although he also trips all of my scumdars, to steal a turn of phrase). Meanwhile, some people will find someone, or some sort of lead, and, due to believing nobody would listen to it otherwise, they keep bringing it up over and over again and refusing to listen to the other side of the issue because they believe nobody will listen otherwise. I tend to do this sometimes, and it's just a general tick that people do every once and a while, because they have an idea, and they just want people to listen.

Now, counterquestion for Yeti here, what are your current thoughts on UncleSam, and how do you feel about idlers? Finally, what do you think is most important when it comes to scumhunting?
 
Hitmonleet said:
"
This is one of the primary reasons I scumread FH; his ideas don't have the logic behind it, they're lacking in the towny forethought.
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?_? want to give an example?

"who are your current suspects for scum and why do you think they could be a scumteam together?"

Probably Josh, Leet and maybe WC. The previous two have been rather buddying of each other and then for WC, there's just been some really weird logic from them in terms of who they suspect. (ie claiming that leet and I are only scum reading each other). Oh yeah, I'm also not liking Twin's playing, very quiet and also very manipulative, pushing towards a shot but then not really doing much else. Honestly, I feel rather confident that the original scum plan was to give the gun to texas and hope that myself and haruno would be taken out early, it would certainly explain leet's really weird post where he almost randomly scumreads haruno and I without having many posts from either of us and then his tunnel on us all game.
 
@FH: and then for WC, there's just been some really weird logic from them in terms of who they suspect. (ie claiming that leet and I are only scum reading each other).

I meant recently. For the previous five pages or so all the content from you and him are basically:
[reason, reason], fh/leet is scum
 
Former Hope said:
?_? want to give an example?

"who are your current suspects for scum and why do you think they could be a scumteam together?"

Probably Josh, Leet and maybe WC. The previous two have been rather buddying of each other and then for WC, there's just been some really weird logic from them in terms of who they suspect. (ie claiming that leet and I are only scum reading each other). Oh yeah, I'm also not liking Twin's playing, very quiet and also very manipulative, pushing towards a shot but then not really doing much else. Honestly, I feel rather confident that the original scum plan was to give the gun to texas and hope that myself and haruno would be taken out early, it would certainly explain leet's really weird post where he almost randomly scumreads haruno and I without having many posts from either of us and then his tunnel on us all game.
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Sounds good to me. Remember this?
Former Hope said:
This early post is one of the biggest scum indicators in the game. First of all, the instant narrowing of Haruno and I as scum, before the game had even really started. Then just further narrowing in that throughout the game.

However even bigger, is the timing. Now when it comes to complex reasons like that, timing is important. In the rules of WIFOM scum are considering their actions and potential justifications for it. The post above came about an hour and 40 minutes after Texas was announced with the gun and before most people had even posted for in game stuff. It also shows clear complexish thought on the idea the mafia were from OCNOC, so from this post, I am seeing this as the thought and reasoning the mafia wanted to give to town about why Texas was chosen for the gun and also borrowing from Shubaka, knowing that at least one mafia wanted haruno to be shot, it also fits into this narrative.
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You bring up, quite literally, one of my first posts, and absolutely nothing else, and you stress, of all things, when I post it. Literally, of all the possible reasons you could have made to claim that, you use the timing of a post, and an early game suspicion of you, with absolutely nothing else about my playstyle or thoughts, to scumread me. That's really tenuous logic, and it feels just like you're trying to make an excuse to cast doubt on me, and nothing else.
 
Former Hope said:
?_? want to give an example?

"who are your current suspects for scum and why do you think they could be a scumteam together?"

Probably Josh, Leet and maybe WC. The previous two have been rather buddying of each other and then for WC, there's just been some really weird logic from them in terms of who they suspect. (ie claiming that leet and I are only scum reading each other). Oh yeah, I'm also not liking Twin's playing, very quiet and also very manipulative, pushing towards a shot but then not really doing much else. Honestly, I feel rather confident that the original scum plan was to give the gun to texas and hope that myself and haruno would be taken out early, it would certainly explain leet's really weird post where he almost randomly scumreads haruno and I without having many posts from either of us and then his tunnel on us all game.
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I thought I moved up to null, why am I now scum again?
 
If I was a scum I'm pretty sure I'd go through more effort to frame you, much like I went through lots of BS reasoning to frame jalmont/pblade last noc. Otherwise, I prefer to stick to the realm of quantitative reasoning as possible, you posted a pretty in depth theory about who the scum might be, in a way that was completely absurd and seemed thoroughly thought out ahead of time. Additionally, if the scum were hoping to have haruno shot early, which is supported by shubaka's posts, then that adds another explicit mark against you for pushing haruno/me super early game.

Then there are others "Scum has to be former or haruno" and points where you have explicitly been trying to get haruno and I shot. Knowing now that both of us are town, I can only conclude that was your game plan from the get go.

Josh Your hovering between null and scum, right now leaning more scum based on some recent things that I can't recall off the top of my head
 
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