You quiver again on the power gem which you live due to charti and a +2 psychic does like 90-106 I believe and if you run HP ground that kills. Regardless, I do understand your counter argument but the list of fail safe counters to this thing just seems too small in my opinion. Also to note, the charti sets I have seen haven't run psychic or hp ground but I guess either one would still be a viable option
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Resource SM OU Viability Ranking Thread
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You quiver again on the power gem which you live due to charti and a +2 psychic does like 90-106 I believe and if you run HP ground that kills. Regardless, I do understand your counter argument but the list of fail safe counters to this thing just seems too small in my opinion. Also to note, the charti sets I have seen haven't run psychic or hp ground but I guess either one would still be a viable option
Perhaps that is right for Jirachi, but Jirachi is still tanky enough to take hits, especially with the Z happy hour boost. Zen headbutt 2 HIT KO defensive Celesteela(not 1HKO unfortunately) but celesteela isn't able to do anything simply because it was flinched before doing so.
Also, Z happy hour Jirachi has a base attack of 150 with the boosts and it is bulky enough to bring down at least 2 pokemon from the enemy team. Z happy hour Jirachi is so fast that it outspeeds many non scarf users, and if it is against a scarf user, it is bulky enough to so it won't be revenge killed easily. He is super difficult to revenge kill and my jirachi wrecks the enemy team so bad that they forfeit most of the time in my experience anyways. He has the same typing to M-Metagross, making it weak to only, fire, dark, and ground attacks. Z-Happy jirachi is definitely not as good as M-Metagross, but against the pokemon in A-, like Tapu Fini and Tapu Koko, It will 2 hit KO with iron head, Hit Volcarona and flinch him before doing anything, tank a fire blast from Volcorana, and many more. Looking at the mons in B-, I'm not sure if they can compete(for the exception of Chansey). Tapu bulu's Wood happer does nothing and he can 2 hit or 1 hit KO Tapu bulu with Iron Head. Jirachi can beat Nillego with two iron Heads. It deserves at least a nomination.
As for Chansey, it doesn't struggle badly with physical attacker once he land his thunder wave. Afterwards, he can poison them and take hits like its nothing and follow up with a fancy seismic toss.
Sure, Chansey's physical bulk isn't the best but it can tank hit because of its insane HP.
Chansey doesn't die easily, even with Physical attackers, so he can setup hazards without worrying that he will be 1hit KOED, because it is almost impossible.
Also, Z happy hour Jirachi has a base attack of 150 with the boosts and it is bulky enough to bring down at least 2 pokemon from the enemy team. Z happy hour Jirachi is so fast that it outspeeds many non scarf users, and if it is against a scarf user, it is bulky enough to so it won't be revenge killed easily. He is super difficult to revenge kill and my jirachi wrecks the enemy team so bad that they forfeit most of the time in my experience anyways. He has the same typing to M-Metagross, making it weak to only, fire, dark, and ground attacks. Z-Happy jirachi is definitely not as good as M-Metagross, but against the pokemon in A-, like Tapu Fini and Tapu Koko, It will 2 hit KO with iron head, Hit Volcarona and flinch him before doing anything, tank a fire blast from Volcorana, and many more. Looking at the mons in B-, I'm not sure if they can compete(for the exception of Chansey). Tapu bulu's Wood happer does nothing and he can 2 hit or 1 hit KO Tapu bulu with Iron Head. Jirachi can beat Nillego with two iron Heads. It deserves at least a nomination.
As for Chansey, it doesn't struggle badly with physical attacker once he land his thunder wave. Afterwards, he can poison them and take hits like its nothing and follow up with a fancy seismic toss.
Sure, Chansey's physical bulk isn't the best but it can tank hit because of its insane HP.
Chansey doesn't die easily, even with Physical attackers, so he can setup hazards without worrying that he will be 1hit KOED, because it is almost impossible.
Poison and paralysis? At the same time? Wat?
Take hits like it's nothing... Somehow I doubt that. Yes, it checks special attackers. But few special attackers are gonna stay in anyway.
It's not burning them, so even if the physical attackers in question are paralyzed, they're still gonna rape Chansey.
You're missing something else: Chansey is not very splashable at all. It fits on stall teams and stall teams only. It's a huge momentum sink on any other team.
Anyhow Chansey is now in A-, so you got your wish.
So it's interesting that you bring up Volcarona in your Jirachi argument. Volcarona has an interesting ability called Flame Body, which can potentially burn things that make contact with it. Then all your boosts go to crap.
Also you still have no calcs.
As for the 150 base Attack, it doesn't help with the fact that you get walled to the moon and back by things like...
-Mega Scizor (which can set up)
-Volcarona (which too, can set up)
-Heatran (assuming you don't run Drain Punch)
-other bulky Steels and Fires.
Yes, it beats Fairies and Nihilego. Cool. The sheer amount of support that it needs to even set up, however, makes me very much reluctant to see Jirachi rise because of its Happy Hour set, of all things.
Edit: I don't know what kind of crap calculator you're using for the 2HKO on defensive Celesteela, but that's a no.
+1 236 Atk Jirachi Drain Punch vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Celesteela: 98-116 (24.6 - 29.1%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 236 Atk Jirachi Zen Headbutt vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Celesteela: 78-93 (19.5 - 23.3%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery
And if you're crazy enough to run Thunderbolt...
+1 0 SpA Jirachi Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Celesteela: 138-164 (34.6 - 41.2%) -- 69.5% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
That's the SPECIALLY DEFENSIVE set.
Edit 2: Oh, welcome to Smogon by the way! I would suggest you lurk about a bit or get tutoring before you commence posting.
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I'm indifferent to mence, but I think rising Mimikyu would be lunacy, tbh. I've been considering nominating it for a drop actually. Sure, it gets a free turn to set up, but I've honestly never seen that help it. Can it actually reliably deal with anything at +2? It's speed tier isn't great, nor is its attack or defensive stats, so often it's left using swords dance and then shadow sneak and getting ohko'd. Honestly this thing is more of a meme in my eyes and doesn't have a place in OU, as even if it outspeeds its opponent it doesn't really kill anything relevant at +2. Finally, nothing has changed in the meta to make it better, so a raise isn't really justified.
That said, show replays of mimikyu being something other than totally useless and I might change my mind.
I dont even know if this is allowed but Diggersby to UR
Current state is a wallbreaker that has a niche in???? stuck in a garbage speedtier, forcing to compete with so many other wallbreakers in the tier. Normal ground is a mediocre as a STAB, and its soprediction reliant, while it cant take a hit to save its life. Quick attack is a bad priority move, and has almost no niche compared to other wallbreakers like azumarrill craw, alowak, etc
no opinion on mimikyu rise, tho I would point out that megados is another viable mold breaker user, as is kyurem-b (tho they're outsped if megados didn't DD yet and if +2 is already achieved kyub is OHKOd)
However, I have to disagree with salamence rise, at least as long as gyara is in B+ and not A-. Gyarados is simply the better SSSS moxie user, largely because it is neutral to ice and has a better primary STAB. Salamence's only significant stat advantage is it's speed (100), which is still not enough to outspeed the commons scarfer (101+), and thus kinda useless in my eyes. Besides that, gyara has better bulk, and can set up on more mons (both greninjas, tapu fini, hp ice tang, defensive landot (as HP ice is almost standard now and SE is not), etc). And, maybe most importantly, water STAB is far superior to dragon STAB.
There's this standard-ish I guess team I see a lot that involves koko, tang/ferro, ninja, fini, a mega, filler or something like that, and Gyara literally 6-0s this common archetype at +1. like I couldn't tell you how many games I've ended in less than 12 turns in this matchup. Salamence can't set up on ninja or fini or tang (all of whom are setup bait for gyara) and has the stab issue and outrage lock issue.
I'll also note that moxiedos should run EQ almost 100% of the time because the coverage lets it sweep wayyy easier
(ex: +1 252 Atk Gyarados Waterfall vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Tapu Koko: 217-256 (77.2 - 91.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO. well that sucks.)
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Mimikyu is pretty much obligatory on Webs teams, which are doing well right now due to the blazingly fast Phero leaving, taking with it offense's preferred form of hazard control. I also feel criticizing it for not taking stuff down even at +2 is misguided since it's meant as a cleaner, not a breaker. Having perfect neutral STAB coverage on the entire meta means once your bulky mons are worn down, Mimikyu cleans up nicely because you can't rely on resists to keep it in check.
I don't know if it's due for a rise necessarily because it is a little lacking in power and is more or less a meme mon outside of Webs, but I'd definitely disagree with it dropping given how well Webs works right now.
Edit: Took out the TR line since it's been clarified elsewhere that Mimikyu doesn't work as well on that as it does on Webs (although TR is listed in the OO section of its analysis).
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Thanks for welcoming me to smogon. (I wanted to join for a long time so I read the whole thread from pg 1 and I wanted to nominate my own mons too)
About Chansey, I meant that she can do a toxic+softboiled stall after a Thunder wave, because the opposing mons speed is cut down.
About Jirachi, It is impossible to calculate the damage because it is after the Z Happy Hour boost.
To make this not pointless, support Volcorona to A+. It is definitely worthy up there, along with Mega Mawile, Tapu Lele, etc, because it is so effective in sweeping with its Quiver Dance. Sure it needs support(because of Stealth Rock), but doesn't A-Greninja need support too? Tapu Lele? Celesteela is a stand-alone but Automize Celesteela needs help before setting up as well.
I also agree that there are far too little pokemon in the A+ tier, only 5, compared to the A tier, who has TONS of pokemon.
Well, you can't inflict two statuses. Paralyzing a Pokémon with Thunder Wave renders you unable to Toxistall it. I think that's what the others meant in addressing your post.
On a general note: It shouldn't matter how many Pokémon there are in a rank. The whole idea of rank inflation/vacancy undermines accurate rankings of Pokémon, since those concepts mean you're willing to move Pokémon just to make the list more aesthetically pleasing. If few OR many Pokémon belong in a rank, then so be it. A Pokémon should be ranked according to its viability; nothing more, nothing less.
Fair enough, I have little experience with web teams, but I could see it working. It's not very good on trick room in my experience - it's pretty far outside of what you'd normally want on a TR team. It's much preferable to have something like Mawile that can ohko most things after a single boost, rather than wasting turns on setting up twice. It's also not particularly slow. In any case, I could see the webs thing as an argument against it dropping, but a rise is out of the question imo.
TR and SW are very different teams. Since Sticky Webs are a hazard, they stay on the field permanently, meaning your momentum doesn't shift as much. Mimikyu is cool for SW because in the event you lose momentum and have to sacrifice something, Mimikyu is one of those things that instantly shifts momentum back to you. The permanent speed drop is what makes Mimikyu so effective. Trick Room teams have to work sorta like Weather teams in that they only have a couple of turns of momentum, so you prioritize bulky, insanely hard-hitting team members. Mimikyu doesn't really fit on them cuz it doesn't really capitalize on TR the same way it can capitalize on SW.
I don't think there's a problem with the rankings being uneven in size. The point of the rankings is to show how well Pokemon fare in the Metagame compared to each other and the overall landscape of everything. If A+ is small, that simply means that only a few Pokemon are noticeably more capable in their roles than the majority of relevant competition. In the long run, I don't think a large "A+" and small "A" says anything different for consideration than a small A+ and large A Rank.
Just to make sure this post isn't just discussing subjective ranking opinion, I'm skeptical but not totally opposed to Zygarde in S-Rank. I will need to try it out properly before I can take a definite stance, but the spammability of Thousand Arrows for neutral STAB is an incredible asset for a Choice mon thanks to how it eases prediction, and "Air ignorant" or not, Ground is becoming a very good offensive typing for relevant targets like Zapdos and Mawile, while generally doing a decent chunk to neutral targets (35% to Ferrothorn won't win 1v1, but does pressure it to stay healthy, especially with Spikes stacking picking up). Being able to 2HKO the typical Ground answers thanks to either Thousand Arrows or Outrage in the case of Tangrowth and non-offensive Lando-T is also a nice perk for preying on teams that rely heavily on blanket checking or role compression for their defensive synergy.
The main thing I'm on the fence about is that Zygarde doesn't feel like it has an S-Rank kit overall. While both of its sets can put in significant work, it strikes me more as having two A Rank sets that together through bluffing/flexibility add up to an A+ rank. Metagross and Greninja, two of our current S Ranks, don't have much variety, but perform well enough at that one role to earn their spot, and I'd say Landorus-T is a combination of multiple S/A+ sets to earn its spot.
I intend to play around with it a bit more, but right now I'm sitting on A+ with reception to convincing points.
Just to make sure this post isn't just discussing subjective ranking opinion, I'm skeptical but not totally opposed to Zygarde in S-Rank. I will need to try it out properly before I can take a definite stance, but the spammability of Thousand Arrows for neutral STAB is an incredible asset for a Choice mon thanks to how it eases prediction, and "Air ignorant" or not, Ground is becoming a very good offensive typing for relevant targets like Zapdos and Mawile, while generally doing a decent chunk to neutral targets (35% to Ferrothorn won't win 1v1, but does pressure it to stay healthy, especially with Spikes stacking picking up). Being able to 2HKO the typical Ground answers thanks to either Thousand Arrows or Outrage in the case of Tangrowth and non-offensive Lando-T is also a nice perk for preying on teams that rely heavily on blanket checking or role compression for their defensive synergy.
The main thing I'm on the fence about is that Zygarde doesn't feel like it has an S-Rank kit overall. While both of its sets can put in significant work, it strikes me more as having two A Rank sets that together through bluffing/flexibility add up to an A+ rank. Metagross and Greninja, two of our current S Ranks, don't have much variety, but perform well enough at that one role to earn their spot, and I'd say Landorus-T is a combination of multiple S/A+ sets to earn its spot.
I intend to play around with it a bit more, but right now I'm sitting on A+ with reception to convincing points.
This. I also agree with pika pal in that I'm not sure I can 100% hop on board with Zygarde moving to S when you consider it would be sharing that with Greninja and Mega-Metagross; it just doesn't really quite stack up in my opinion. I feel like moving it up to S might be easier to assess after the Metagrossite suspect because we'll get a better feel for whether or not Zygarde is here to stay or not. Idk just not sold on S yet.
I disagree with demoting alola-wak and I think the reasoning for doing so misses the point of it's role in general.
Sure, lando-t forces it out, but not before wak gets to slap it with a shadow bone, or WoW, or get rocks up on the switch. And it does a great job of wearing mons down in this way. You should be using wak as a hit & run type mon that forces a ton of switches: come in on tapu koko's thunderbolt for water/flying type teammates instead of relying on a ground type, for example, saves you from HP ice. Koko is forced out with a hard switch (or probably u-turn) and wak can hit the switch in with a hard hitting move or cripple it with burns. It's a great SR setter as well.
Alola wak can do this same thing to steels like scizor, celesteela, magearna, etc. (either force them out or OHKO with flare blitz) and it beats chansey carrying thunder wave (though it can get worn down if it gets hit with toxic, so you'll want to scout for it). Bonemarang breaks sub at the cost of accuracy compared to EQ, but either way you OHKO heatran on the predicted switch.
It's weak to rocks and it's overall biggest weakness is that it's prone to being worn down, and depending on the match up and team make up these can be tough obstacles to overcome; but if you can find opportunities to defog with a partner like Fini or Scizor, you'll find ways to get this guy in enough times to set rocks, maybe remove a steel, and either help wear down or outright remove a common mon like lando T before losing it to residual damage.
Overall this mon does some serious work if used properly. It's not a focal point, but it one hell of a glue mon. And I think those qualities are enough to warrant it's current ranking.
Sure, lando-t forces it out, but not before wak gets to slap it with a shadow bone, or WoW, or get rocks up on the switch. And it does a great job of wearing mons down in this way. You should be using wak as a hit & run type mon that forces a ton of switches: come in on tapu koko's thunderbolt for water/flying type teammates instead of relying on a ground type, for example, saves you from HP ice. Koko is forced out with a hard switch (or probably u-turn) and wak can hit the switch in with a hard hitting move or cripple it with burns. It's a great SR setter as well.
Alola wak can do this same thing to steels like scizor, celesteela, magearna, etc. (either force them out or OHKO with flare blitz) and it beats chansey carrying thunder wave (though it can get worn down if it gets hit with toxic, so you'll want to scout for it). Bonemarang breaks sub at the cost of accuracy compared to EQ, but either way you OHKO heatran on the predicted switch.
It's weak to rocks and it's overall biggest weakness is that it's prone to being worn down, and depending on the match up and team make up these can be tough obstacles to overcome; but if you can find opportunities to defog with a partner like Fini or Scizor, you'll find ways to get this guy in enough times to set rocks, maybe remove a steel, and either help wear down or outright remove a common mon like lando T before losing it to residual damage.
Overall this mon does some serious work if used properly. It's not a focal point, but it one hell of a glue mon. And I think those qualities are enough to warrant it's current ranking.
I have mixed feelings about alowak. I've been a big proponent of it all gen, and IMO it's been a fantastic performer up until now. Not as mindless as some people may have expected it should be, and those ppl stopped using it b/c of the challenge curve, but alowak definitely rewards a competent player in big ways.
However, the meta is getting slower and fatter, and groundier and waterier, all things that work against alowak. It still provides a very viable and valuable niche as a counter to top tier threats and a breaker with no switchins outside of landot's (tankchomp's) first switch into it, and I can't imagine 3 useful immunities will ever amount to an unviable-mon, but it's harder for alowak to put in work right now.
I think it's viability has been somewhat (maybe B+ level) diminished as a result of both the absence of phero (which caused a hugee meta shift and slowed things down), to which alowak was a calculated and perfect counter, and as a result of teams getting fatter.
And finally, MMaw provides very tough competition for the slot of painfully slow, absurdly powerful breaker. I've actually swapped alowak out of a lot of teams for MMaw (which has made all those teams quite Koko weak lol but whatever Tropius the god walls)
Alowak's matchup vs stall is still very good tho.
So yeah idk about a drop but here's some thoughts from a player who's built maybe 30 teams with alowak.
However, the meta is getting slower and fatter, and groundier and waterier, all things that work against alowak. It still provides a very viable and valuable niche as a counter to top tier threats and a breaker with no switchins outside of landot's (tankchomp's) first switch into it, and I can't imagine 3 useful immunities will ever amount to an unviable-mon, but it's harder for alowak to put in work right now.
I think it's viability has been somewhat (maybe B+ level) diminished as a result of both the absence of phero (which caused a hugee meta shift and slowed things down), to which alowak was a calculated and perfect counter, and as a result of teams getting fatter.
And finally, MMaw provides very tough competition for the slot of painfully slow, absurdly powerful breaker. I've actually swapped alowak out of a lot of teams for MMaw (which has made all those teams quite Koko weak lol but whatever Tropius the god walls)
Alowak's matchup vs stall is still very good tho.
So yeah idk about a drop but here's some thoughts from a player who's built maybe 30 teams with alowak.
Agreed here: meta is getting fatter and maro has fewer free switch ins. More things capable of pressuring it too. Requires more skill to use but very devastating when used well.
Would support a drop to B+ because it's really not that hard to get rid of and sometimes can fail to perform its jobs due to not getting in easily. Aside from that, it's still quite good so when it's in, it is very good.
As you said, it's prone to being worn down due to zero recovery, not even lefties, and an SR weakness. it can't consistently come in as a hit and run mon if it takes 25% every time as well as any resisted hits.
I absolutely do not disagree that SR is a huge obstacle for wak. I suppose it depends on what type of hazard remover you pair with it, and the opponent's team make-up too, though. I've had decent success recently supporting my team in general - especially wak -with Defog m scizor; which I find to be a pretty consistent hazard remover.
Alolan Muk to B
Pursuit trapper that's not murdered by fairies is a big niche. Also, Pretty decent switch-in/ check to lots of stuff: Lele, Mega Zam, Nihilego, Ghost PZ, gengar, Volcarona, Greninja, Hoopa-u, tangrowth, latios, tornadus-t and ash-gren (at least give its some tough time to transform). Knock off with poison touch is really spammable and punishes switch-ins to it like garchomp, lando-t, zygarde, etc. Outside of the 3 staples: knock off, pursuit, and poison STAB (i prefer gunk shot but poison jab seems to be the more common one), it has some flexibility in its last move too: shadow sneak, clear smog, disable, memento, explosion. Does have some deadly flaws like being food for magearna, mega maw, lando, zygarde, celesteela but overall, it has enough good qualities to rise to B
Alolan Marowak can drop to B+
Dont have much to say but it's just worse than all the other A- and feel more like B+. Also, with Spikes on the rise since ash-gren runs that as its 4th move now, its longetivity is worse than before.
Mega Aerodactyl, Mega Sharpedo, Mega Slowbro, Mega Beedrill should all drop to Mega Garchomp's level or just one subrank higher.
This one may seem a bit extreme but c'mon, these Megas are all so bad compared to the A rank Megas like Scizor, Mawile or medicham. These megas (the bad ones) offer very little to teams and often have to be built around to work. Even then, they are still very ineffective. Please don't kill me for this nom.
EDIT: unrank Zydog. Using Zydog means you miss out on a S rank worthy mon. The speed advantage of dog barely matters but the extra bulk + power of 50% form matter in almost every game.
Pursuit trapper that's not murdered by fairies is a big niche. Also, Pretty decent switch-in/ check to lots of stuff: Lele, Mega Zam, Nihilego, Ghost PZ, gengar, Volcarona, Greninja, Hoopa-u, tangrowth, latios, tornadus-t and ash-gren (at least give its some tough time to transform). Knock off with poison touch is really spammable and punishes switch-ins to it like garchomp, lando-t, zygarde, etc. Outside of the 3 staples: knock off, pursuit, and poison STAB (i prefer gunk shot but poison jab seems to be the more common one), it has some flexibility in its last move too: shadow sneak, clear smog, disable, memento, explosion. Does have some deadly flaws like being food for magearna, mega maw, lando, zygarde, celesteela but overall, it has enough good qualities to rise to B
Alolan Marowak can drop to B+
Dont have much to say but it's just worse than all the other A- and feel more like B+. Also, with Spikes on the rise since ash-gren runs that as its 4th move now, its longetivity is worse than before.
Mega Aerodactyl, Mega Sharpedo, Mega Slowbro, Mega Beedrill should all drop to Mega Garchomp's level or just one subrank higher.
This one may seem a bit extreme but c'mon, these Megas are all so bad compared to the A rank Megas like Scizor, Mawile or medicham. These megas (the bad ones) offer very little to teams and often have to be built around to work. Even then, they are still very ineffective. Please don't kill me for this nom.
EDIT: unrank Zydog. Using Zydog means you miss out on a S rank worthy mon. The speed advantage of dog barely matters but the extra bulk + power of 50% form matter in almost every game.
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I disagree with Mega Sharpedo and Mega Beedrill. Mega Sharpedo is really good on SW teams, and Mega Beedrill is extremely fast with a nice Attack stat. They aren't nearly as good as the top megas, but they don't need a drop. Maero and MegaSlowbro should drop tho. Slowbro is outclassed as a stall mega by Mega Sableye, and Maero isn't really good.
Couple things:
Since when? Using spikes means giving up u turn, which is invaluable, and maybe giving up specs, which are also invaluable for A-Gren. And if you don't give up Specs, you're limiting yourself to a choiced non-attacking move, which means you're a free switch in. With stuff like Medicham running around, that's kind of an issue.
Is it, though? Even if Ash Gren is running spikes now for whatever reason, it's not like the Number of spikes users have gone up on any hazard stacking team, since running A-Gren prohibits running Gren.
Mega-Sharpedo is still a great cleaner with good coverage moves and a good STAB. Yeah, it's not as good as the A rank Megas, but that's why it's not in A rank. As for Mega-Slowbro, it's still a formidable physical wall and one of the scarier cm users in existence. Good luck killing it without strong STAB SE hits. No opinion on the other two, but Bee is blacklisted so.
What extra power? Last I checked, they had the same attack.
Since when? Using spikes means giving up u turn, which is invaluable, and maybe giving up specs, which are also invaluable for A-Gren. And if you don't give up Specs, you're limiting yourself to a choiced non-attacking move, which means you're a free switch in. With stuff like Medicham running around, that's kind of an issue.
Is it, though? Even if Ash Gren is running spikes now for whatever reason, it's not like the Number of spikes users have gone up on any hazard stacking team, since running A-Gren prohibits running Gren.
Mega-Sharpedo is still a great cleaner with good coverage moves and a good STAB. Yeah, it's not as good as the A rank Megas, but that's why it's not in A rank. As for Mega-Slowbro, it's still a formidable physical wall and one of the scarier cm users in existence. Good luck killing it without strong STAB SE hits. No opinion on the other two, but Bee is blacklisted so.
What extra power? Last I checked, they had the same attack.
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Dude this is sloppy af.
Regardless, Spikes has always been a good option on Ash; it requires more skill than U-Turn, but the payoff is usually bigger cuz it gets to wear down its own checks in the long run.
As for the Zydog line, I think the reference was to added power of non CB sets since they can boost past +1 Attack and have significantly more bulk. Idk if I would unrank it entirely just because a fast CB Thousand Arrows will always be useful to some extent, but it certainly cannot hold a candle to 50%
spikes ash gren takes advantage of its ability to force stuff out and sets up spikes on tangrowth ferro etc. you also bluff non-choice if you are specs.
zygarde-10 needs jolly while zygarde 50 can and should run ada on band.
on marowak: i don't think it needs a drop cause nothing has really changed for it. keldeo gren chomp lando have all been common and have always been able to revenge kill marowak, but that doesn't mean it cant still do its job of 6-0ing stall. if anything marowak is better now cause stall is everywhere.
Pinsir A- -> B+
Pinsir although being a great hard hitting mon even though of it's ability nerf it is not the great enough mega to be compared to mega zam it get easily countered or checked by many mons and can't pick up kills that easily. You need a little support to make it sweep and that's it one set unlike other mons inside A-
Pinsir although being a great hard hitting mon even though of it's ability nerf it is not the great enough mega to be compared to mega zam it get easily countered or checked by many mons and can't pick up kills that easily. You need a little support to make it sweep and that's it one set unlike other mons inside A-
I second this. It was A- last gen and Gen 7 has been very mean to it. Zapdos is now a more common and useful Pokemon that has all the tools to eat Mega Pinsir for breakfast, lunch and dinner. And sure Skarmory isn't as good as it was before but now it has the even better Celesteela to deal with. It also doesn't help that hazard control is a lot worse this Gen, especially for offense. Oh and there's also Magearna and Tapu Koko. I like Mega Pinsir but it doesn't belong in A- right now IMO.
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