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Metagame Mega Evolution in Sun & Moon

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VannAccessible said:
Mega Abomasnow also has use as a TR attacker given its low speed, high mixed attacking stats, high attack STABs like Blizzard and Wood Hammer, good coverage, priority and a handy water and ground resist which a lot of TR teams need.
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That's true; it has a lot more going for it than Crabominable (most similar mon that works on TR teams, although it's not that good) in terms of bulk and priority. The downside, of course, is that it's a mega, and Mega Mawile is by far the best Trick Room-abusing mega in OU. A good player will choose Mawile as the mega instead of Abomasnow every single time.
 
JTD783 said:
That's true; it has a lot more going for it than Crabominable (most similar mon that works on TR teams, although it's not that good) in terms of bulk and priority. The downside, of course, is that it's a mega, and Mega Mawile is by far the best Trick Room-abusing mega in OU. A good player will choose Mawile as the mega instead of Abomasnow every single time.
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Very true. Mawile is downright scary. However, when picking Mawile for TR, the player also chooses to have a redundant typing with Magenera, who happens to be the best offensive TR user. Combine that with the also common Marowak A, and you have yourself three ground weak mons. As most TR Ground "resists" are Levitate users. Mons like Zygaurd and MB Excadrill are very good match ups for TR for this reason.

It's also worth noting, other potential future TR megas like Ampharos and Camerupt also share this same ground weakness.

So at the very least, Abomasnow has a TR niche to circumvent the compounded ground weakness problem.
 
that's kind of a weird case because on paper mega heracross could break through toxapex regardless of whether or not it runs eq with rock blast and pin missile chipping 1/4 off toxapex. and you can't just spam scald either because rock blast does 36-42% so you've gotta stay healthy.

then there is the fact that toxapex can just switch out for regenerator shenanigans but that involves bringing in another member which is very dangerous especially if you've got something that can setup hazards against stall like sd rockium lando, clef, heatran, or gren. when rocks are up physically defensive unaware fable just drops to rock blast on the switch and following turn, and if you don't stay in you're forced into toxapex and you have to 1v1 with toxapex or you'll be forced to sack one of your mons because clefable is at approximately 45% assuming you get a mid-roll (between min and max roll of 44-53%) so it ain't taking another rock blast to the face. none of the other members can ever switch-in for pretty obv reasons (skarm, mega sab, duggy, chansey) so you can't really just remove it with duggy since 9/10 it's gonna be behind a sub so duggy just loses.

of course, this is all assuming the mega hera is well played and overlooking the miscellaneous factors this game of luck has in store for battle. overall, i'm intrigued to see how stall will react to mega hera.
 
Mega Heracross seems to have an alright matchup vs Toxapex, even without Earthquake.

0 SpA Toxapex Scald vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Heracross-Mega: 51-60 (16.9 - 19.9%) -- guaranteed 6HKO

So there is no way Toxapex can break Heracross's subs even if Heracross runs absolutely no investment whatsoever.

136+ Atk Heracross-Mega Rock Blast (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 232+ Def Toxapex: 105-125 (34.5 - 41.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery
252+ Atk Heracross-Mega Rock Blast (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 232+ Def Toxapex: 110-130 (36.1 - 42.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery

Sure, Heracross cannot 2HKO Toxapex without Earthquake, but I guess it forces Toxapex out because it's unbreakable.
 
Mega Houndoom is one of the few offensive dark types that can somewhat handle the tapus this Gen. But I feel like sludge bomb is even more needed this time around because of them.
 
SD Sets also do like 70-80% with rock blast so I don't think Heracross minds Toxapex too much. It also takes advantage of Lando really easily since they don't even run edge now unless they're offensive.
 
It's nice to have another wallbreaking option that is completely unfazed by Dugtrio. Even a 200 BP Reversal has a poor chance of breaking Mega Heracross's Sub:

252 Atk Dugtrio Reversal (200 BP) vs. 240 HP / 0 Def Heracross-Mega: 80-95 (22.1 - 26.3%) -- 13.3% chance to 4HKO
 
252 Atk Dugtrio Aerial Ace vs. 240 HP / 0 Def Heracross-Mega: 196-232 (54.2 - 64.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Even with Aerial Ace, Dugtrio can't revengekill an healthy Heracross, as Pin Missile will just break through the Focus Sash.
 
Heracross will certainly bring an interesting shake-up in the tier. On one hand, it's speed is quite underwhelming against offensive teams in this metagame due to how fast-paced it has been. On the other end of the spectrum, mega hera will pose quite a threat to stall and will fare well against balanced teams as well. Dugtrio can't revenge kill it, and the vast majority of dugtrio don't carry aerial ace on stall. Personally, I prefer substitute to swords dance, but swords dance certainly has its merit in increasing the pressure even more against slower teams. Stall will take a hit when this is usable on the server.
 
Hmm, I wonder if you may as well just go for a bulky max hp megahera over max speed this gen, substitute it up over switches and break down the offensive swap.
 
Some calcs with Houndoom-Mega towards the Tapus:
252 SpA Houndoom-Mega Sludge Bomb vs. 248 HP / 16+ SpD Tapu Fini: 148-176 (43.1 - 51.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Tapu Fini Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Houndoom-Mega: 108-127 (37.1 - 43.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Lol, Tapu Fini does less with its STAB


252 SpA Houndoom-Mega Sludge Bomb vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Tapu Lele: 184-218 (65.4 - 77.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Houndoom-Mega Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Tapu Lele: 169-199 (60.1 - 70.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Houndoom-Mega Sludge Bomb vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Tapu Bulu: 432-512 (125.5 - 148.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Houndoom-Mega Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Tapu Bulu: 396-468 (115.1 - 136%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Tapu Koko outspeeds Houndoom-Mega but:

252 SpA Houndoom-Mega Sludge Bomb vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Tapu Koko: 264-312 (93.9 - 111%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Magnet Tapu Koko Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Houndoom-Mega in Electric Terrain: 232-274 (79.7 - 94.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Sludge Bomb hits a little harder than Fire Blast and that 30% chance of poisoning the target is always appealing.
Despite its newfound Spe when megaevolving, it still seems lacking in power to me. It doesn't have really the bulk to use consistently Nasty Plot and Solar Power is useless without Torkoal in the tier.
It needs some broken monsters out of the tier in order to make Torkoal viable (which essentially grants Houndoom a free Specs with recoil).

252 SpA Houndoom-Mega Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Metagross: 276-326 (75.8 - 89.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Not bad if we need a revenge killer towards AV Metagross.
 
According to the calculator, the ORAS set is this:

Heracross-Mega @ Heracronite
Ability: Skill Link
EVs: 240 HP/ 136 Atk/ 132 Spe
Adamant Nature
-Substitute
-Close Combat
-Pin Missile
-Rock Blast

Here's a spread I made for SM:

Heracross-Mega @ Heracronite
Ability: Moxie
EVs: 224 HP / 136 Atk / 148 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Substitute
- Close Combat
- Pin Missile
- Rock Blast

This spread hits 223 Speed, which outruns the calculator's defensive Lando-T (that has 222 speed). The Attack is the same; it just has a little less bulk and a little more speed. The extra speed investment is very important for Substitute-ing on defensive Lando since it can't break your Sub.

I still need to determine how much HP and Attack are needed to hit certain benchmarks, but I think 223 speed should be the minimum.

Some takeaways from calcs I've done so far-
  • Going from 240 HP EVs to 224 means Rotom's Volt Switch can break Hera's Sub, but the chance is very low.
  • Zygarde, whether SubCoil or LO DD, can never break Hera's Sub in one hit with Thousand Arrows. Adamant CB Zygarde can always break it in one hit with Thousand Arrows.
  • Unboosted Horn Leech from SD Fightinium Z Bulu has a good chance to break Hera's Sub in one hit. Unboosted Superpower, however, does like 15-20%, so if Hera eats a Superpower on the switch it can wall Bulu easily. Pin Missile does like 90% minimum.
  • With either 224 HP or 240 HP, Hera always eats 2 Scalds from Scarf Keldeo after Rocks, assuming no burns. CC does 90% minimum.
  • Dugtrio is hard countered unless it runs Aerial Ace (that 2HKOs Hera btw).
  • PhysDef Unaware Clef basically counters Hera, which needs like 200+ Attack EVs to have a somewhat decent chance to 2HKO.
  • Mega Sableye's Foul Play does 25-30% but otherwise Hera's Sub walls it easily.
  • 224 HP Hera has a 94% chance to live LO Latios' Psyshock at full health.
  • For all of you Baton Pass haters, Hera Subs on Scoli easily and can fire off Pin Missiles, which do 45-55% to max HP Scoli.
  • It switches into Specs Ash Gren's Dark Pulse decently but everything else blows it back.
  • Hera's Sub can't be broken in one hit by ScarfChomp's EQ or Rock Slide.
  • Outspeeds and OHKOs Mega Mawile with CC after a little prior damage; Sucker Punch does zero.
  • Rock Blast OHKOs Mantine, whose Scald cannot break Hera's Sub in one hit.
  • Hera's Sub has a chance to not be broken by AV Magearna's Volt Switch.
  • CC reliably 2HKOs SpDef Celesteela.
  • 136+ Atk Heracross-Mega Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 151-178 (45.2 - 53.2%) -- 90.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery; this speaks for itself.
For faster spreads, 220 Speed EVs (241 Speed) outruns SubCoil Zygarde and the mons that Zygarde speed creeps.
 
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