NOC Matrix 12 NOC - Game Over, Mafia Wins

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on p29 i wish moody would elaborate more on why he believes things such as what would make ullar his next target if knights flips scum

why does he think theres a connection there

interesting texas protests people parking their vote early to someone else but doesnt rly call out josh for claiming there's a set lynch pool of 3, both of which i find will not be super helpful to town and are too limiting
 
Blazade said:
That's some logic right there lol.

However, I do think King's role is most suspect in creating the third wagon (outside of obviously Jalmont), so vote King

I just got back and I have some shit to take care of but I'll be weighing in more later.
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something about this strikes me as weird

the first line is in response to some indeed hood logic by josh so thats a-okay but his justification for voting king.. idk. seems to attribute too much to king.

king was the third vote on ullar so iunno. seems Easy.
 
Yeti said:
do you think knights is still possible/probable scum without king as a scumpartner? why?

sry if u said and i forgot jumping between current pages and SoD2
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Asek said:
feel like knights is scum for his continuous weird defense of king as being bad lynch, but not of any of the other usual suspects who got put in that situation this game, notably haruno whom he casted a pretty telling momentum vote on
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agree w above asek post

leet continually dodging the draft is gonna get a scumread from me in addition to EoD dodging

dude just will not be around anything

also curious why he thinks me and texas would be scum together
 
MoodyCloud said:
Fort Colorcastle Can you give me better than a Jalmont vote and why does it look like you've dropped a post and went afk without caring about replies/discussion resulting from it
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because that's exactly what I did.
My activity in this game is going to be reading the pages that happened since my past post, several times per irl day.
As far as I'm concerned, posting a few times / irl day is perfectly normal.

Also if jalmont was scum then why have we not lynched shubaka? I just checked; shub is not on the list of dead players.
Did he get cleared somehow?
 
Papercake done. Correct me if I'm wrong, but he's the only player here who believes Jalmont might bus Texas. Not sure how I feel about a read against the grain aside from disagreeing with it, but the fact that Pancake's using familiarity with a player he encouraged to sub in as basis for a read worries me a little. I keep asking myself why Pancake would poke a friend for subbing in the first place and I'm getting kinda paranoid over it. Slight scumread.

Fort Colorcastle Shubaka got subbed. I'm not sure about Empoof, though I'll be damned if I forget about the mutual chainsaw.
 
Yeti said:
while i dislike policy lynch usually i like this post from josh and think it makes a lot of sense on both accounts

btw i see fort lurking this thread if he doesnt explain why he voted deadmont crank up the pressure on this kid
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"Not closing tabs" syndrome gives a false positive for lurking yay
And I voted jalmont because I didn't realize he was dead. The only reason I'm not on shubaka now is to give y'all time to tell me if he is clear or something before I do it.

Was haruno not acting like he usually does in an NOC? (i.e. being as rude/aggressive/crazy as he possibly can) The way he usually acts in d1 of an NOC, a Haruno wagon day 1 should give like no info whatsoever.
[A few minutes later]: I just read like 4 pages and yeah he's being himself already.

townread on moody (as far as I'm concerned, attacking a bullshit lynch like mine, and keeping up the pressure, is a pretty good sign)
so uh yeah I kinda see how leet is dodging everything. townleans on yeti and asek for pushing that.

oh shub got subbed. ty knights!
lynch empoof then I guess?
 
Votecount
Hitmonleet (2): Pancake, Ironic Double
Yeti (2): Hitmonleet, Josh
Blazade (1): Moodycloud
Ironic Double (1): Asek
Josh (1): Texas Cloverleaf

Not Voting (5): Hawkie, KnightsofCydonia, Yeti, Empoof, Blazade
 
Votecount
Hitmonleet (2): Pancake, Ironic Double
Yeti (2): Hitmonleet, Josh
Blazade (1): Moodycloud
Ironic Double (1): Asek
Josh (1): Texas Cloverleaf
Empoof (1): Fort Colorcastle

Not Voting (5): Hawkie, KnightsofCydonia, Yeti, Empoof, Blazade

I swear this is right.
 
Yeti said:
in order of earliest post

voters for haruno
1. walrein
2. jalmont
3. knights
4. king
5. dle
6. ullar (preservation)
7. texas

voters for ullar
1. hawkie
2. blazade
(king switches to haruno here)
3. asek
(texas votes ullar here)
4. moodycloud
5. haruno (preservation)
(texas switches to haruno here)

neither:
paperblade (king)
former hope (no vote)
hitmonleet (josh)
josh (hitmonleet)
shubaka (asek)
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day 2 wagons

voters for king
(blazade on king) / (texas and josh both have votes earlier than this that are on when moody votes as well)
1. moody
2. hawkie (from leet)
3. dle/fort
(hawkie switches to leet here)
(texas switches to leet here)
4. josh (who will unvote then revote king before anyone else does)
(josh switching here)
5. asek
6. texas
7. empoof

voters for hitmonleet
(hawkie will be the starting vote on leet)
1. ironic double
(hawkie switches to king to be #2)
2. knights
3. hawkie (switches back)
4. josh (switches off king)
5. texas (switches off king)
6. blazade (switches off king)
(josh unvotes then switches to king)
7. josh (switches off king)
(josh switches back to king)
8. king (preservation)

ending voters:

king
1. moody
2. dle/fort
3. josh
4. asek
5. texas
6. empoof

leet
1. ironic double
2. knights
3. hawkie
4. blazade
5. king

off-wagon:
pancake (texas)
hitmonleet (no vote)
yeti (texas)
 
Yeti said:
voters for haruno
1. walrein
2. jalmont
3. knights
4. king
5. dle
6. ullar (preservation)
7. texas
voters for ullar
1. hawkie
2. blazade
(king switches to haruno here)
3. asek
(texas votes ullar here)
4. moodycloud
5. haruno (preservation)
(texas switches to haruno here)

neither:
paperblade (king)
former hope (no vote)
hitmonleet (josh)
josh (hitmonleet)
shubaka (asek)
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king
1. moody
2. dle/fort
3. josh
4. asek
5. texas
6. empoof (shubaka)

leet
1. ironic double (fh)
2. knights
3. hawkie
4. blazade
5. king

off-wagon:
pancake (texas)
hitmonleet (no vote)
yeti (texas)

theres kind of a conundrum here in that assuming blazade and fh are both mafia and hawkie is not a jalmont nor fh partner, either leet is the last mafia and NO scum voted for king the winning wagon OR leet is village and only one scum did.

that seems.. odd.. two of the scum hid in the losing wagon. maybe they thought leet would get more traction? id seems to have parked his vote and skittered off for EoD. blazade would have more reason to move.

josh's vote shifts are the only thing really inconsistent with everyone else's actions. he voteshifts twice as much as hawkie (second most) during d2 and most of that is after p1000. his vote sits on king for a while, comes off, comes on, comes off, comes on... there's just some very erratic movement here as EoD closes in.

blazade, josh and texas were the initial votes on king when moody places his. all 3 will switch off once the wagon is at 6 votes. i think its 6, anyway.

the problem with knights being mafia is all three are on the failed hitmonleet wagon. that seems like a lot of eggs in one basket. or, one of id/blazade isn't mafia and the problem remains, there's 2 scum on leet and only one lurking elsewhere.

its possible my townread onto the fort slot is wrong and fort's efforts to derpclear himself (revealing you're town via a 'dumb' comment like not knowing jalmont who would otherwise be your scumbuddy has been killed) are manufactured. oooor it's asek who has voted both sides of the king v ullar sentiment on different days which i personally dislike. or josh who couldnt make up his mind which mislynch he wanted more.

pancake's odds of being mafia with id and blazade AND all three being off the winning wagon seem very slim. if it is 3 people who didn't vote king then jesus christ village. tyvm to the cucks who thought tunneling king as policy unhelpful would be productive.

ppl on both winning wagons:
dle
texas

ppl on both losing wagons:
hawkie
blazade

ppl on 1 winning 1 losing wagon (both town, ullar and king):
moody
asek

ppl on 1 winning 1 losing wagon (with no confirmed flip on leet):
king
knights

ppl on 1 winning 1 non-wagon:
ullar/yeti
josh
shubaka

ppl on 1 losing 1 non-wagon:
fh/id

ppl on none of the above 4 wagons:
paperblade/pancake
hitmonleet

all 4 of dle, texas, moody and asek have ended the days with their votes on villagers (confirmed fmpov).

the pcake and leet slots have never ended a day on a wagon.

the fh/id slot also likes to stay out of the spotlight.

both blazade and hawkie have been on wagons, but not the winning one, and both switched off the winning one d2.
 
KnightsofCydonia said:
Though Jalmont's interactions are something to consider. Let me transpose my notes on him

NOTE: I didn't properly track read pivots in these sets of lists, so there might be one or two mixed in with the reads I wasn't sure about.

Players with a Townread on Jalmont
Moody (?)
Walrein (slight lean)

Players with a scumread on Jalmont
Asek (?)
Hawkie
Blaz
Paper

Players with a nullread on Jalmont
Former (?)
Moody (?)
Texas
Ullar
Asek (?)
Hitmon
King

Players who Jalmont Townread

Moody

Players who Jalmont scumread

Asek
Texas
Haruno

Players who Jalmont nullread

Texas (?)
King
Ullar
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im closing in on when i got subbed in and id just like to point out

knights has "run" a bunch of isos and reads but this is about the evidence we have of him actually doing it

almost all of his posts in this sub-heavy turnover period of d2 are saying he's going to run an iso or reads check, then reporting in he's done so and his read either has or hasn't changed

but..... he never states what about his read did that.

i felt that the fact he did keep notes and would keep going back to look at them was very town but now that i reread and see he never cites anything (except this post), no post #s, no quotes, i am not at all as much a fan. if he's mafia he already knows who everyone is, he doesn't need to provide any evidence for why he now thinks (actual town) is town once he says he's run the iso.

i really really wish he had more of these posts within these pages bc itd be a lot easier to give the strong tr to a guy who provides evidence for how his read evolved or didn't

i feel like overall knights is active, bringing up stuff that other ppl dont necessarily consider, and posting stuff but he does tend to chase down avenues maybe nobody else really gets or engages with. like blazade can do with his math nerdery though that's NAI. i WANT to say town but i can also see that he could just be suggesting random stuff to look good (the chainsaw defense.. i still dont get it) and claiming hes reviewed all his notes etc etc but not ACTUALLY providing any quotes or reasons.

has knights ever made a push? like has he said "we should lynch king for x y and z reasons" at any point? i cant really remember him doing so, he just puts his vote out there but i dont feel like hes really trying to be a driving force. for all his notes and iso runs i'd think he'd have a stronger scumread TO propel into the spotlight, especially on d3 with 2 lynch flips to go off.
 
KnightsofCydonia said:
I see a read trend on Moody that feels a little odd. Kinda like watching the tide come in and go out. Not going to be able to finish running Moody before I have to go afk.
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does this read trend ever get elaborated upon??

i guess ill find out in a page or two if this is yet another example of knights pointing something out but then never explaining it.

no1curr if u spot a read trend if nobody else knows what that trend is :@
 
Texas Cloverleaf said:
Yeah pancake is lock scum

Completely ignores the context of that post, which was responding to king saying he doesn't care about working with townies and completely ignored the rest of my post which was full of content in order to push his own narrative against me.

You don't get more blatant misrepresentation than that
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do you still think so?
 
KnightsofCydonia said:
Actually, this is the tide coming in and out thing I was mentioning. There's 4 players, you among them, who scumread him D1, shifted to Townread on D2, and then kinda pulled back those reads as D2 progressed.
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alright i guess we are gonna get this out of knights after all tho its in reply to josh rn, its sure taking a while for these notes to manifest but ayy
 
oh p40 knights finally posts his reads on and reads by lists for ppl

alright a better look there now that we've seen some Evidence provided

i wish the lists had more commentary on what he thinks the shifts mean tho, rn its still sort of just empty data with no effort made to contextualize it

knights you're already putting in this much effort to frame everything id rly like to see you just post your opinions and conclusions from it as well
 
p41 josh puts waaaay too much emphasis on active posters as a reason to scumread me

texas does this too later but less

i generally think actives are bad lynches early unless they scumslip hardcore but i feel like josh is veering into the territory of "its scummy to not townread anyone who is active because they are active" which is faulty logic and got me the popcorn W :toast:

being active doesnt make you immune to scumreads or somehow not mafia. most of josh's argument against me is that i scumread actives and that's just SKETCHY. now that ive caught up id say i like texas a lot more than i did from just skimming and his reaction to my subbing in and early posts; those were p bad. josh........... his retard tunnel screams boneheaded town too big for his britches but a lot of his logic and posts and pushes scream scum.

i think he's probably a bad lynch today bc if he's mafia trading himself 1 for 1 for me is numerically poor, unless his team thinks my slot is a PR. this makes him more likely village? but i disagree with a lot of what he says and does in this game. then again i did with empoof in popcorn and he was village (and i would've disagreed with it as actual!town).

it does bother me that josh attempts to bog down the game by claiming the lynch pool is only X people he deems fit for it or demands we lynch king this day, this king, and no other!!! and trying to force a 1v1 against me to lynch between. it just feels like he's trying really hard to keep Certain People out of the spotlight and artificially fixate the game on other people. mostly weaker slots (king ullar leet) who can probably be forced to "scumslip" with too much pressure.

i see his efforts to narrow the lynch focus as anti-town and im surprised more people haven't called him on this.

reading over hitmonleet's posts man i just don't know if i can take a stand decisively. i dont think his posts are very good but i also think people pick at him to make them like they've done with pokeguynxb-flyhn and king and crap before he can really organize his thoughts. that said, if people DON'T pressure leet he doesn't seem to post at all and both of his EoD votes have been throwaways (he didn't place one at all yesterday which is Dislike). i want to say there have been a few too many people multi-day pushing leet as knights pointed out for him to make sense as mafia? i just find it very unlikely anyone on his team would have started the bus d1, and then d2 after they lost their roleblocker, the other 2 continue to let him flounder and get a ton of pressure.

leet and josh makes the most sense as scum together i think? josh has flip flopped between voting leet and pushing him and gunning for king or me or someone else but i think it could be telling he's never Actually wound up on leet and leet isn't Actually lynched yet. leet got a lot of early votes and support on d3 and then josh decided to force the lynch to be between me and him.

i don't think they are actually scum together, just saying if one does flip scum i am immediately looking at the other.

vote ironic double

this guy seems like a tastier subject today

caught up on the game now lgi
 
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