NU Viability Rankings

[Martin]

:xy/pyukumuku:
Pyukumuku —> B-
Making this nom because stall works in this meta and Pyuku is pretty much the face of stall. The sheer fact that it is able to completely shut down such a vast number of non-Sub setup attackers really speaks volumes about how useful this Pokemon is for stall, and stall as a playstyle feels more consistent now than it has been at any point since NU alpha started up, proving that it is very capable of taking on most prominent playstyles to a consistent degree. I honestly don’t know what else to say really so I’ll just leave it there.

:xy/xatu:
Xatu —> A-
Maybe it’s just down to the types of teams that I like using, but Xatu always feels like it comes up short nowadays both when I use it and when I face it. When I use it I find that it has an extremely hard time consistently keeping hazards off of the field, when I face it I always manage to get SR/Spikes past it in one way or another, and with more teams carrying Sneasel in the wake of the Barbaracle ban (combined with the fact that it was already very common on balanced/defensive teams—i.e. the style that Xatu doesn’t do nothing versus) it just feels like it never does anything. It’s very easy to abuse, it can’t take a neutral hit to save its life, it is so easy to pressure, and the metagame just kinda feels like it isn’t very favorable for it on the whole. I feel that there are quite a few ‘mons in A- (plus Cryogonal) which I find to be more consistent than it is, and I think that a lower rank would reflect its viability better than its current rank does.

 

[Hootie]

:xy/xatu:
Xatu —> A-
Maybe it’s just down to the types of teams that I like using, but Xatu always feels like it comes up short nowadays both when I use it and when I face it. When I use it I find that it has an extremely hard time consistently keeping hazards off of the field, when I face it I always manage to get SR/Spikes past it in one way or another, and with more teams carrying Sneasel in the wake of the Barbaracle ban (combined with the fact that it was already very common on balanced/defensive teams—i.e. the style that Xatu doesn’t do nothing versus) it just feels like it never does anything. It’s very easy to abuse, it can’t take a neutral hit to save its life, it is so easy to pressure, and the metagame just kinda feels like it isn’t very favorable for it on the whole. I feel that there are quite a few ‘mons in A- (plus Cryogonal) which I find to be more consistent than it is, and I think that a lower rank would reflect its viability better than its current rank does.

Click to collapse...

I really don't understand the logic for a drop here. Xatu's very presence forces the opposing side to play more aggressively with their hazards setters/force doubles because they can't just set hazards in hopes that it doesn't switch in because if hazards do get bounced it's a massive loss in momentum. Nothing in the metagame has changed to affect these interactions. I also don't see what's changed that makes it suddenly easy to pressure, it still completely prevents rocks from Steelix and Seismitoad no problem which are the tier's most popular Stealth Rock users in both ladder and tournament play. Other Stealth Rock users like Rhydon and Piloswine still are deterred from setting up hazards and in Rhydon's case, it needs a 5-hit Rock Blast or be heavily invested into attack if it wants to be able to break past it. The only Spikes setter that doesn't have too much issues is Froslass, but that's already been present in the meta for a while now and Xatu has rose in both viability and usage despite its presence. Sneasel usage is valid, but there's still other mons that punish Sneasel for Pursuit trapping Xatu like Emboar, Samurott, and Klinklang (obviously not as punishing as Barbaracle, but still dangerous nonetheless). Sneasel being put into the position where it can safely trap is tall order when Xatu keeps up momentum with U-turn in the majority of scenarios and is also able to stay in versus the Sneasel user, tank the damage, and come out weakened, but still able to discourage hazards from going up. Xatu's performance in the tier is still very consistent and its steady rise in usage shows this because no Pokemon can fill the role Xatu does to the same degree of effectiveness. It should not drop.

As for my own nomination, I'd like for Klinklang to be ranked, B- would be fine. Klinklang in the current metagame is a very underrated sweeper that's been relatively off the radar, but it benefits a lot from Whimsicott, Sneasel, and Vanilluxe's presence in the metagame, being able to set up on all with little issues. Steel typing is already a rare trait and provides offensive teams with much appreciated defensive qualities that let it stand out over other win conditions in the tier. It has issues with both Steelix and Seismitoad, but both of those Pokemon are easy to pressure/wear down/lure through a bit of team support, otherwise Klinklang is able to tear up teams in most matchups, being virtually impossible to revenge kill outside of Hitmonlee's Mach Punch. Slowbro is probably the worst mon for it to face, but it has been on a decline more recently and can still be lured with Z-Wild Charge anyways (though it is the lesser set compared to Z-Gear Grind). Overall an underrated Pokemon that deserves to be on the rankings.

 

[Jarii]

to A+
Ok, so for once, I'm going to have to disagree here. This isn't because I think Xatu is bad at it's job, because it certainly isn't, but some of the Pokemon used in the current meta kind of eat Xatu alive, such as Guzzlord and Sneasel. Vikavolt and Vanilluxe also fit into this category. I feel that A+ is too high for Xatu, because while it can be bulky, some SE hits will easily take it down, and it's weaknesses are pretty common in the meta game.

Click to collapse...

:xy/xatu:
Xatu —> A-
Maybe it’s just down to the types of teams that I like using, but Xatu always feels like it comes up short nowadays both when I use it and when I face it. When I use it I find that it has an extremely hard time consistently keeping hazards off of the field, when I face it I always manage to get SR/Spikes past it in one way or another, and with more teams carrying Sneasel in the wake of the Barbaracle ban (combined with the fact that it was already very common on balanced/defensive teams—i.e. the style that Xatu doesn’t do nothing versus) it just feels like it never does anything. It’s very easy to abuse, it can’t take a neutral hit to save its life, it is so easy to pressure, and the metagame just kinda feels like it isn’t very favorable for it on the whole. I feel that there are quite a few ‘mons in A- (plus Cryogonal) which I find to be more consistent than it is, and I think that a lower rank would reflect its viability better than its current rank does.

Click to collapse...

Okay I will first talk about this before i'm gonna go on with my own VR post, people always think U-turn Psychic and Grass Knot are manditory for Xatu as attacking moves. I really disagree with this. Depending on your team Xatu is able to run Dazzling Gleam / Heat Wave or even Thunder Wave if you want to be that guy, Dazzling gleam 2 hit KO's Guzzlord and Sneasel which means it isn't a free switch as people tend to give it. If you want to talk about consistent behaviour of Xatu I would say actually Xatu does it's job the best. Even if your opponent has a team that isn't weak to Xatu at all (Specs Spikes Accelgor, Piloswine etc.) it still forces a 50/50 between "are they actually going into their xatu or their resist if I predict the Xatu?" So even if your team isn't weak to Xatu it's still might do it's job and that's not able to be said about most A- mons as you said.

to S: Agree
Basicly took Sceptiles job and did it even better, 100% agree with S, Whimsicott has been showing everywhere in the competitive scene that is deserves S. Not more to say about it that other didn't do already.

To A: Agree
Rocker that is able to beat Xatu, has Ice priority, good bulk, Electric immunity and an amazing ability what makes Pilo a switch in to most common threats such as Vanilluxe. This mon is an amazing fit on BO teams and I would say it's better then Steelix for sure.

To A: HIGHLY disagree
Oh no this certainly not deserves A rank at all, the Psychic types it's supposed to check have ways around it (Delphox, Sigilyph both having super effective moves for Steelix, Xatu is able to beat Steelix 1v1 and Slowbro/Slowking has the Water-Typing). The Electric immunity doesn't do anything for it since every Electric-Type has something for it. Offensive Normal-Types aren't a thing in this meta and even the offensive Fairy-types have things for it (Whimsicott Grass-Typing, M-Audino has Fire Blast or Surf). Honestly this meta isn't Steelix friendly at all so. A- --> B+

Now my own noms:

A+ --> S
This might be a weird nom but I have a really good reason for it. Delphox is able to soft check every S/A+ and A mon with Scarf (yes even Guzzlord since Dazzling Gleam), if you don't believe me then look for yourself. Of course you can argue about the fact that you can only lock yourself into one move but that doesn't mean it can't switch out or predict well with it. CM Z-move (whatever you need for your team) works both as a set up mon and a nuke what most mons can't really say. Good SpA and Spe, amazing typing not much else to say about Delphox I feel besides that it's top 5 for sure. (would be my second Fire-Type I get to S pls support me ;-;)

C --> D
Again I will bring this up, Hitmontop doesn't fit at all in SM NU. Almost every S to A- is able to beat it someway or the other. Hitmonlee/Cryogonal are better spinners what gives your team more synergy then Hitmontop does. Offensively it's completely outclassed by Lee or even Chan and if your defensive Fighting-Type has Close Combat as it's main way to do damage I have an issue with that mon, it's supposed to check it but then you just get -1 in both Def and SpD what just loses your bulk. The only niche it had for be was that it was able to check Barbaracle but now that is gone it even lost that going for it. Basicly this has nothing to do in SM NU and should be D for sure.

 

[poh]

First I'll go through some of the nominations people have made before talking about my own.

A- -> A

Being able to actually punish Xatu with a combination Icicle Crash and Ice Shard while also being a decent answer to stuff like Vanilluxe, Vivillon, Houndoom and Sneasel to an extent. Piloswine is basically a blanket check to a variety of pokemon that are all very common in the current meta. I've been experimenting with Rock Tomb over Ice Shard lately which not only nails Cryogonal but also makes sure Xatu can't just Roost on you.

A+ -> S:

Strong Fairy STAB is extremely valuable in this meta. I think Life Orb is its best set so Vileplume or Togedemaru can't just come in for free. It has the coverage to deal with its checks and with its blistering speed it has become a top tier threat. It also has room for some nifty support moves like Memento and Tailwind to give help its teammates even if it's close to faint.

A -> A+

Hootie and others summed up why Xatu deserves a rise and i completely agree.

C- -> C+

Having played stall for the most recent suspect test (with success) I can say stall is a viable playstyle in the current meta. As Martin already stated Pyukumuku is pretty much the face of stall and does crazy things like 1v1ing Virizion and Toxic stuff like Golbat and Steelix. B- is a bit much but I think C+ is fine for it.

A+ -> S

Can't agree with this one. Scarf is easy to play around and gets trapped far too easily by Sneasel. CM Z-move is threatning but means that you're gonna drop Grass Knot or Dazzling Gleam leading to being checked by either Slowbro or Guzzlord. Being weak to rocks also doesn't help it because unlike Vanilluxe, Delphox isn't the mon to get a kill everytime it comes in.

Own nom:

A -> A- / B+

Froslass guarantees you to have atleast 1 Spike up and Xatu gets punished with Ice Beam. Unfortunately people know what it does by now and Froslass has lost a bit of its shine imo. For example Xatu always lives a hit and can U-turn out into something like Scarf Emboar meaning that Froslass can't perform its job as it wants to. Offensive sets are still rather weak and with Cryos rise lately (which can click Knock Off or Toxic) I don't think Froslass deserves a spot at A.

 

[Martin]

I get what you're saying Hootie, but my argument was less "it is easier to pressure now" (prolly worded my post badly to imply this, so my apologies) and more "it was already very easy to pressure and it was ranked too high already imo for reasons X, Y and Z." That said, given the negative response this I feel that it is probably not going to happen and is more likely just a product of my generally aggressive playstyle both for offensive and bulky builds to the point that Xatu doesn't impact my decisions much, so I won't derail the thread over it. Either way though if it doesn't drop it for the love of god can people at least stop with the rise stuff 'cause if it isn't overrated now it will definitely be overrated at A+.

Anyway, I guess I'll comment on some current noms.

Whimsicott is a total bastard to deal with for offense and realistically speaking there isn't that much that you can do other than hope that your switch-in doesn't get caught on the wrong move, but I honestly don't think it is S rank material. I think the fact it is so weak often does get downplayed a lot. If it has just killed something or been hit by a slower VoltTurn or whatever, Whimsi is prone to being taken advantage of by anything which either resists what it is locked into (vs Specs) or takes neutral damage or less from all of its hits (vs LO), with a special mention going to CM Delphox due to it resisting both STABs+Psychic combined with just how disgusting it is to try and deal with defensively if you don't carry something like Incineroar or (if it runs Shock>Gleam) Guzzlord in the back. LO wears itself down extremely quickly and generally struggles to leave a mark versus a lot of bulkier teams, being reliant on hitting things with the correct move as they switch in short of 4x weak targets like Togedemaru and stuff which has recieved a solid amount of chip prior (especially in the case of Psychic targets). By no means is any of this new stuff, but the flipside of this is that it does put a cap on how high it can reasonably go, and while it is impossible to ignore how dominant it is I feel that A+ rank already reflects this accurately.

I agree with Cryogonal to A- because... yeah, it puts in work on a totally consistent basis. I don't really think there is anything else I can say other than that it just likes the metagame as it is right now. Agreeing with Piloswine because a consistent SR user that beats Xatu and checks both Vanilluxe and Vikavolt to a lesser extent is a godsend for BO teams. Miltank is cool and should rise because of Vanilluxe too; it is such a useful attribute for defensive teams due to its stellar role compression capabilities between SR, cleric, Vanilluxe/Delphox check and what have you.

Delphox rise makes a lot of sense imo because it is far and away one of the most threatening 'mons available and because it has so many chances open to take advantage of, benefiting pretty heavily from the dominance/commonness of stuff like Vikavolt, Vanilluxe, Whimsicott, Hitmonlee and whatever else. It's versatile, it's easy to plug onto teams, and it is just extremely effective. Strongly agree with this. Also strongly agree with Hitmontop because lol this Pokemon never does anything other than sap momentum and play mind games with Foresight/Toxic and Rapid Spin.

 

[Moron5]

Typhlosion
B => B-/C+
As flames as Typhlosion seems on paper it just has so many glaring flaws to be considered in B imo. An issue Typhlosion has inherently is very restrictive in teambuilding one has to go through to maximize its potential. The necessity of having a defogger/spinner to simply avoid being 100% outclassed by Delphox/Houndoom and the moment the opponent gets rocks up or even smacks it with decent priority, its effectiveness drops about like 30%. Xatu is often paired with it but it's often not enough to stop rocks going up at a certain stage in the game. It's also simply one of the most simply one-dimensional pokemon like ever. Specs is the only set that isn't 100% outclassed however the problem with running specs is pretty obvious as Eruption isn't the be all end all as Slowking/Incineroar/ Guzzlord/ Vaporeon/Miltank/etc. can all take it rather well and 100 base speed is only so much on a relatively frail mon. I'd argue its comparable to zard in its ability to just demolish in certain matchups just with less setup but with less reward.

Kanghaskhan
B => B-
Kanghaskhan is decent against any frailish team lacking a rocky helmet mon but unfortunately there's just so many of them right now (Xatu, Druddigon, Garbodor) and absolutely no shortage of pokemon it cannot break (Slowbro,Rhydon,Vileplume, Mega Audino etc.). Hardly any team just offers free damage anymore. It's very comparable to Cincinno who has a higher speed tier but also struggles with helmet mons but Cincinno at least has bullet seed and a momentum net to set off its downsides a bit.

Klinklang
UR => C-
Echoing some earlier noms of this, Klinklang no longer has to compete against Barbaracle for the double booster-esque sweeper role and Electrium/Steelium sets mid/late game are hard to stop especially when Steelix is slowly becoming less of a necessity for teams. Can just set up on so many mons like Xatu, Vileplume if sub, Piloswine if Magnet Rise, Mega-Audino, Golbat, even Sneasel. Bottomline this is lowkey flames.

Shuckle
B+ => B
Webs is still great in certain matchups but losing Barbaracle which was probably the nastiest web abuser whilst having to deal with the rise of Xatu is incredibly annoying for Shuckle. The rising Cryogonal is also a real nuisance for webs to deal with not spinning as it pressures the archetype rather well.

C- => Unranked
Digimons.

AlsowhythefuckisguzzlordcalledJimisthisaninsidejokeI'mmissing

 

[Earth]

> B: The fact that Cinccino is sitting in B- while Kangaskhan is B irks me quite a bit. I think Cinccino is equally as good as Kangaskhan, if not better. Its great speed tier and decent raw power make it a reasonable choice for offensive teams, which sets it apart from Kangaskhan, a Pokemon that would usually fit on bulkier teams / kangaspikes. Cinccino is not amazing but I can see it rise to B as it still has qualities that make it able to perform decently against a good amount of archetypes with the right support (as in, getting rid of Steelix).

> B- (or higher): I think this has been discussed before, so if it has, consider this a support post. Miltank is definitely great currently as it's able to reliably check Vanilluxe thanks to Thick Fat, while being able to set up Rocks altogether. I didn't use to see it at all but with ice cream rising, it's definitely a great stall Pokemon that can even fit on bulkier balance teams, which is really nice in the current metagame, I say it a lot but having a rocker able to resist Ice with reliable recovery is really helpful in NU. It's a great Pokemon with helpful role compression which makes it eligible for a rise, in my opinion.

Supporting Whimsicott for S, it's one of the best Pokemon right now.

 

[Disjunction]

oh hello there

Rises:
Delphox A+ --> S
Whimsicott A+ --> S
Xatu A --> A+
Piloswine A- --> A
Sigilyph B+ --> A-
Miltank C+ --> B
Pyukumuku C- --> C+
Klinklang UR --> B
Type:Null UR --> C
Ditto UR --> C

Drops:
Rotom-C S --> A+
Froslass A --> A-
Aromatisse B+ --> B
Hitmontop C --> D

reasoning

Delphox A+ --> S
The amount of positives that Delphox brings to a team nowadays is overwhelming. Being a soft Whimsicott/Emboar check, heavy offense punsher with its Scarf set, and a devastating and versatile CM wallbreaking set means it has no shortage of usefulness on a team nowadays and deserves to be on the same level as the other titans of the metagame.

Whimsicott A+ --> S
Not much can be said about Whimsicott that is not already evident. It's a powerful cleaner, corebreaker, and support mon wrapped up in one cute package. The impact that its offensive Fairy-type STAB alone is enough to make it stand out, but its useful defensive quirks, coverage options, and secondary Grass-type STAB are enough for it to make as big of a splash as it has.

Xatu A --> A+
We're really desperate for good hazard control and Xatu puts a lot of power in the player's hands to do that themselves.

Piloswine A- --> A
A strong offensive rocker that puts the pressure on Xatu and can switch into Vanilluxe's Ice-type STABs. Having diverse, offensive options for rockers in the tier is very useful and Piloswine has really stood out as a great choice nowadays.

Miltank C+ --> B
It's the only hard counter to Vanilluxe in the tier. It also checks Delphox really well and soft checks some other assorted Fire-types.

Klinklang UR --> B
Despite the popularity of Pokemon such as Steelix and Seismitoad, Klinklang still functions as a very efficient late game cleaner in this meta because of its matchup against everything else. Being able to set up on Whimsicott, beating Slowbro with a +1 Gigavolt Havoc, and just on merit of it being a Steel-type alone make it something special and valuable. Its counters can be much more easily lured and whittled compared than you might expect too.

Rotom-C S --> A+
Metagame shifts have been a little more harsh on Rotom-Mow. It's usually forced into a losing position from choosing between Volt Switch or Leaf Storm because of the surge in Pokemon that outspeed and pressure it, or simply resist its STAB combination.

Froslass A --> A-
Pretty easy to switch into and not all that strong. Spikes is the only thing it has going for it to maintain offensive pressure, but it's rare that this thing can find enough opportunities to force out opponents to get up more than one layer.

Aromatisse B+ --> B
It's literally just worse mega audino.

Thanks for being patient with us everyone. Hopefully this update pleases your palette.

 

[quziel]

Housekeeping:
Komala: Unrank
Yes, SD Z-wood hammer is nice, but like, there's a ton of other stuff that also breaks bulky teams that most importantly isn't literally worthless except vs stall. Shit, if all you need is a status absorber that beats stall, why not use like CB Hariyama or something. Rapid spin is also an unset, and really shouldn't be used, as while yeah, I guess it sorta deals with a few setters well, it literally can't switch in vs so much of offense, and makes that matchup beyond hard to play. Basically, low speed, an overreliance on a non-stab sucker punch, and beyond horrible physical bulk all hamstring this mon, and I see little reason it should be C- when better mons aren't even ranked.

Liepard: C- to C/C+
Its the face of Weather, and while yes, Vanilluxe can undo most of its work instantly, Sun and Rain are still viable enough to merit this mon rising. Not much to say here other than that its basically necessary to run weather successfully, and really is a lot of what makes those styles as possible as they are. Sun is also nice.

 

[Adaire]

B+ --> A-/A
Toxicroak is incredible currently, it offers an incredibly strong win condition against bulky teams with its SD set, while simultaneously having the ability to destroy standard stall with the nasty plot set. Both offer strong priority and very little switch in once they have set up. Due to Toxicroak's great typing and ability in dry skin, it can very easily set up on a plethora of mons in the tier such as vaporeon, garbodor, audino etc. It also has access to other sets such as scarf and bulk up which offers more usability and is easy to insert on balance or offensive teams.

A- --> A
Druddigon is one of the most reliable and easy to use rockers in the tier currently and offers the malelovent duo of rocky helmet and rough skin to punish a wide variety of physical attackers. It's currently one of the greatest checks to emboar as is punishes the use of flare blitz and wild charge; dealing recoil damage which limits emboar's viability while druddigon is alive thus forcing mindgames that benefit the user majorly. Outside of damaging the vast majority of physical attackers in the tier, it also offers rocks, dragon tail and glare, making it an incredibly safe and secure rocker for balance and bulky offense. Moreover, due to the rise of xatu, mold breaker is another option, allowing rocks at the expense of its recoil menace. It also has an offensive set, which abuses its great typing, versatile moveset and sheer force.

 

[Captain Maybe]

B -> B+

With Barbaracle gone, many have shifted their eyes to Omastar, which is pretty much special Barbaracle and less broken. I've made a team about this little guy and I somewhat efficiently got to the top 10 on the ladder. Shell Smash Omastar is a threat. Z-Wring Out at +2 kills Slowbro and various other threats including Seismitoad, which is amazing for it, and like Barbaracle, Omastar only needs one turn to set up and it has defense to sustain some physical damage if need be. With a bit of support, Omastar can rip through teams while having utility to deviate from the norm if you so wanted to. Omastar takes advantage especially of choice locked mons like Emboar, who's super popular right now. Omastar also has weak armor to take advantage of Knock Offs from stuff like Sneasel who can't hurt Omastar badly cause of his Z-crystal, further enhancing his abilities to destroy teams. He's not without his flaws but I think his sweeper capabilities will prove him to be an easy A tier mon. For now though, I feel B+ is a good spot for him until he picks up some steam. I just can't see him being B anymore after Barbaracle's gigantic Z-Move Shell Smash success and Omastar's similar capabilities.

 

[Ampharo]

Mismagius A->B+

It hardly touches Guzzlord unless it has dazzling gleam, in which case it won't even OHKO. It's stab is only an 80 BP move that can easily be switched into with any neutral mon that has a decent SPD. Then there's other things besides guzzlord like Piloswine who eat up shadow balls and even a rockium z and OHKO in return. It can't really switch into any of the top tier pokemon without taking more than half damage because of it's defensively useless typing, and can't even make a safe switch into special attackers like Delphox with a predicted psyshock. There's the argument of hazard control, but Hitmonlee can very easily predict Mismagius will come in and OHKO it with knock off.

Very underwhelming mon, so I believe it deserves B+

 

[Jordy]

B- --> B/B+?
I personally believe Scyther should rise for it's choice scarf set, being able to outspeed many of the offensive threats and heavily chunking most of them such as Jim, Emboar, Houndoom, Sceptile, Virizion and Whimsicott is of very high value in the current metagame, it can also function as an okay pivot due to access to U-Turn.

calcs

252 Atk Scyther U-turn vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Jim: 338-402 (57.5 - 68.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Technician Scyther Aerial Ace vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Emboar: 372-438 (103 - 121.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Technician Scyther Aerial Ace vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Houndoom: 228-268 (78.3 - 92%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Technician Scyther Aerial Ace vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Sceptile: 372-440 (132.3 - 156.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Scyther U-turn vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Sceptile: 288-342 (102.4 - 121.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Technician Scyther Aerial Ace vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Virizion: 684-808 (211.7 - 250.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Technician Scyther Aerial Ace vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Whimsicott: 302-356 (115.7 - 136.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

 

[Ampharo]

B- --> B/B+?
I personally believe Scyther should rise for it's choice scarf set, being able to outspeed many of the offensive threats and heavily chunking most of them such as Jim, Emboar, Houndoom, Sceptile, Virizion and Whimsicott is of very high value in the current metagame, it can also function as an okay pivot due to access to U-Turn.

calcs

252 Atk Scyther U-turn vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Jim: 338-402 (57.5 - 68.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Technician Scyther Aerial Ace vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Emboar: 372-438 (103 - 121.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Technician Scyther Aerial Ace vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Houndoom: 228-268 (78.3 - 92%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Technician Scyther Aerial Ace vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Sceptile: 372-440 (132.3 - 156.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Scyther U-turn vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Sceptile: 288-342 (102.4 - 121.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Technician Scyther Aerial Ace vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Virizion: 684-808 (211.7 - 250.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Technician Scyther Aerial Ace vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Whimsicott: 302-356 (115.7 - 136.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Click to collapse...

Dodrio hits those mons harder and faster with BB and it's only B rank, and doesn't have a X4 SR weakness, so I disagree.

 

[ceal]

Mismagius A->B+

It hardly touches Guzzlord unless it has dazzling gleam, in which case it won't even OHKO. It's stab is only an 80 BP move that can easily be switched into with any neutral mon that has a decent SPD. Then there's other things besides guzzlord like Piloswine who eat up shadow balls and even a rockium z and OHKO in return. It can't really switch into any of the top tier pokemon without taking more than half damage because of it's defensively useless typing, and can't even make a safe switch into special attackers like Delphox with a predicted psyshock. There's the argument of hazard control, but Hitmonlee can very easily predict Mismagius will come in and OHKO it with knock off.

Very underwhelming mon, so I believe it deserves B+

Click to collapse...

I think there's a few problems with your reasoning. Firstly, the argument that it can't touch Guzzlord without Dazzling Gleam is worthless since Mismagius always has run DG and always will for dark types like Guzzlord; non-DG mismagius is an unset. While Shadow Ball's base stab may seem low, consider that A. it's coming off of a mon with 105 special attack, B. said mon has access to a boosting move that doubles its already high special attack and C. it hits the majority of the tier for neutral damage at least, with its only resists being dark types (which can't switch in safely for fear of DG) and normal types (which are rare in today's meta, and the most common one, Mega Audino, is passive and can be exploited with Taunt). Piloswine is ohko'd by Z-Shadow Ball and can't even kill it with Ice Shard without major chip. It's typing actually serves a decent niche as a fighting immune and spinblocker, for example its mere presence on the enemy team can dissuade a Hitmonlee from clicking HJK or Spin and encouraging it to Knock, which in of itself is easily readable and can be played around. Mismagius isn't a Delphox switch-in regardless and shouldn't be used as such.

If you find Mismagius underwhelming, I'd argue it's because you don't have a solid grasp of what it does and how you should use it. Mismagius serves first and foremost as a stallbreaker utilizing the combination of NP + Taunt to boost its special attack, cripple passive mons, and break through defensive cores. It's not meant to be used as a special tank, since its low hp prevents it from eating high-powered special attacks. While Rockium is an option, I'd consider Ghostium 2 attacks its best set, as it gives Mismagius a super powered stab move that few mons in the tier resist and allow it to ohko some mons it normally wouldn't, like the aforementioned Piloswine, and doesn't sacrifice Taunt's utility for breaking down defensive cores for the ability to hit the odd Incineroar (something that is already highly pressured by rocks, has no recovery, and is generally just a bad mon rn) as well as other uncommon checks like Skuntank. I don't mean to be condescending here, but I think you should have more experience with the mon as its supposed to be used and with its best set before you nom it down when it doesn't deserve to be, based on the arguments you made here. Keep Mismagius A-

 

[Ampharo]

I think there's a few problems with your reasoning. Firstly, the argument that it can't touch Guzzlord without Dazzling Gleam is worthless since Mismagius always has run DG and always will for dark types like Guzzlord; non-DG mismagius is an unset. While Shadow Ball's base stab may seem low, consider that A. it's coming off of a mon with 105 special attack, B. said mon has access to a boosting move that doubles its already high special attack and C. it hits the majority of the tier for neutral damage at least, with its only resists being dark types (which can't switch in safely for fear of DG) and normal types (which are rare in today's meta, and the most common one, Mega Audino, is passive and can be exploited with Taunt). Piloswine is ohko'd by Z-Shadow Ball and can't even kill it with Ice Shard without major chip. It's typing actually serves a decent niche as a fighting immune and spinblocker, for example its mere presence on the enemy team can dissuade a Hitmonlee from clicking HJK or Spin and encouraging it to Knock, which in of itself is easily readable and can be played around. Mismagius isn't a Delphox switch-in regardless and shouldn't be used as such.

If you find Mismagius underwhelming, I'd argue it's because you don't have a solid grasp of what it does and how you should use it. Mismagius serves first and foremost as a stallbreaker utilizing the combination of NP + Taunt to boost its special attack, cripple passive mons, and break through defensive cores. It's not meant to be used as a special tank, since its low hp prevents it from eating high-powered special attacks. While Rockium is an option, I'd consider Ghostium 2 attacks its best set, as it gives Mismagius a super powered stab move that few mons in the tier resist and allow it to ohko some mons it normally wouldn't, like the aforementioned Piloswine, and doesn't sacrifice Taunt's utility for breaking down defensive cores for the ability to hit the odd Incineroar (something that is already highly pressured by rocks, has no recovery, and is generally just a bad mon rn) as well as other uncommon checks like Skuntank. I don't mean to be condescending here, but I think you should have more experience with the mon as its supposed to be used and with its best set before you nom it down when it doesn't deserve to be, based on the arguments you made here. Keep Mismagius A-

Click to collapse...

How often will it actually force out mons that would rather give it a free NP than take a little damage from shadow ball? Also, I fail to understand how ghostium would do more, consider stab is 1.5 and SE is 2. Taunt and NP take up two whole slots as well, then it's kind of stuck with a movepool of 2 that's easily worked around.

 

[ceal]

How often will it actually force out mons that would rather give it a free NP than take a little damage from shadow ball?

Click to collapse...

Here's some mons off the top of my head that Mismagius would force out:

1. Slowbro. Takes 60 min from an unboosted shadow and fails to ohko back.
2. Xatu. Takes 90 min from unboosted sball and is usually a team's only form of hazard removal, which gives the Xatu user extra incentive to switch out to stop rocks from going up.
3. Emboar. Emboar locked into Superpower can easily be taken advantage of for a free NP boost.
4. Seismitoed. ProTox Seis is shut down by Taunt and Scald does little to Mismag, allowing for an easy setup. Knock off is something that should be scouted, but since Mismagius is either carrying a Z-Crystal or a Colbur Berry, it won't be doing a heavy amount of damage.
5. Hitmonlee. Hitmonlee already has to be very careful playing around it, but scarf sets locked into HJK or spin get set up on and all out attacking sets have to play 50-50's as to whether Mis will NP up or simply go for the attack.
6. Garbodor. Defensive Garb has little to punish Mis's setup bar gunk poison and can be taunted to prevent spikes from going up.
7. Rotom-Mow. -2 Rotom, especially Scarf Rotom, can be set up on by Mis, and fails to ko due to stacking Leaf Storm drops.

These are just a couple but given specific situations there could be more.

Also, I fail to understand how ghostium would do more, consider stab is 1.5 and SE is 2.

Click to collapse...

I assume you mean Ghostium wouldn't do more in Pilo's case? Because Continental Crush isn't super effective on Pilo, due to its ground typing. Just for proof:

calcs

+2 252 SpA Mismagius Never-Ending Nightmare (160 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Piloswine: 451-532 (111.6 - 131.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 SpA Mismagius Continental Crush (160 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Piloswine: 301-355 (74.5 - 87.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Taunt and NP take up two whole slots as well, then it's kind of stuck with a movepool of 2 that's easily worked around.

Click to collapse...

I don't see how Shadow Ball + DG is easily worked around considering that ghost/fairy coverage is very good neutral coverage and at +2 it can hit very hard, especially with a Z-Move ready to be thrown out. Also as I stated before, CC doesn't hit a whole lot that's relevant or good in the meta and Taunt has great utility for crippling passive mons or preventing rocks or defog, so it's a favorable trade.

 

[SPACE FORCE meeps]

hello!!!!!!

audino-mega: a- -> a+

this nom might seem a bit aggressive but having played a good amount with this pokemon recently, i think it is a wonderful wincon as its wishtect set is capable of winning matches through brute force by walling the opponent's remaining pokemon late game (a number of matches i've played using audino involved it winning late game by just clicking wish, protect, and toxic). it doesn't even require a massive amount of support to achieve this, given that it is capable of walling such a large number of prominent threats to begin with. looking at a- tier and above, garbodor and vileplume are the only pokemon that can be considered consistently threatening to audino, and xatu is fairly effectively at forcing audino out, but not being able to do too much in return. looking at b- tier and above, klinklang, golbat, skuntank, and toxicroak can consistently pressure audino, so really the number of pokemon that threaten audino aren't too plentiful so audino doesn't need a massive amount of support to succeed. audino of course can still function solidly early/midgame with access to wish and regen as it can still check some major threats like scarf delphox, specs whimsicott, and vikavolt, which lets it use wish effectively and increase the longevity of some of its teammates.

audino is also effective at running other sets as well such as offensive healing wish, which is a useful lure for some pokemon like vileplume, steelix, seismitoad, and klinklang, along with resttalk cm which is also a decent wincon, but i haven't experimented with these sets too much, and wishtect is still it's best set anyways, but it does show the solid flexibility the pokemon has.

i think an aggressive rise from a- to a+ is warranted given audino's abilities are a massive boon for balance in the tier as a whole, given its ability to support teammates and also win late game, and i truly believe that as audino gets more usage, it will cause the meta to solidly shift and allow for balance to be a more effective playstyle in the tier

magmortar: b- -> b+

while i did mention that i expect balance to improve in the tier as audino gets more attention, magmortar does provide for a solid thorn against bulkier teams in general. recently it has been gaining traction with its z-focus blast set, which allows it to threaten a lot of the tiers common rockers (piloswine and miltank in particular are ohko'd) and ohko stuff like guzzlord. access to thunderbolt is wonderful too as it allows to dent slowbro and vaporeon. fire-type defensively is useful right now since it allows it to check whimsicott and vanilluxe as well. its rock weakness and poor physical bulk does hold it back, but i have enjoyed using it recently with its solid wallbreaking capabilities

braviary: b+ -> a-

another pokemon i've enjoyed using recently, sub bulk up is truly a wonderful set but it really isn't getting the attention it deserves. the rise in popularity of seismitoad helps braviary quite a bit, since it is capable of using it as setup fodder (scald doesn't break substitute) and putting dents into opposing teams even early game, especially considering seismitoad teams may not pack flying resists outside of klinklang. it can also take advantage of xatu which also has been gaining more popularity recently, since xatu can't break braviary substitutes with psychic. its solid bulk in general also allows it to check some stuff like whimsicott and delphox when rocks are not up. overall it can serve as a nice wincon against bulkier teams, especially once opposing steelix and rhydon are removed.

vikavolt: a+ -> a/a-

the hype for vikavolt has been dying down recently, as more offensive teams are becoming more popular as of late, and as balance is become more revolved around audino, which serves as a solid check for vikavolt.

vikavolt really isn't fast enough to be consistently threatening against offensive teams; delphox becoming more popular too doesn't help its case much either.

rhydon: a -> b+/b

as someone known for using rhydon consistently in the earlier stages of the meta, i really find it hard to justify using rhydon over other stealth rock users, especially when rockers like seismitoad and piloswine are becoming more common, both of which rhydon struggles against. when comparing seismitoad and rhydon; while both may be weak to whimsicott and vanilluxe, seismitoad can more easily slot protect into its moves than rhydon allowing it to scout. seismitoad also doesn't really fear scald from slowbro and can toxic it reducing its effectiveness for the remainder of the match. rhydon is also fodder for klinklang which has been solidly rising in popularity, and teams using rhydon will generally find themselves weaker to klinklang as compared to teams with seismitoad since seismitoad is one of more solid checks to klinklang.

-------------------------------------

just some of the main things i wanted to talk about; some minior things that should probably be considered are aromatisse to c+, togedemaru to c/c-, lanturn to c-/ur

 

[rhydonphilip]

On subject of Lanturn I would like to nominate Lanturn from C+ to UR.

just taking the list of our current S to A-: (bold are the things it actually walls, or could pivot on)

match up

Vanilluxe:
252+ SpA Choice Specs Vanilluxe Freeze-Dry vs. 0 HP / 132 SpD Assault Vest Lanturn: 240-284 (61.3 - 72.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after hail damage
252+ SpA Choice Specs Vanilluxe Freeze-Dry vs. 128 HP / 252+ SpD Lanturn: 288-338 (68 - 79.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after hail damage and Leftovers recovery

Emboar:
252 Atk Emboar Superpower vs. 128 HP / 128 Def Lanturn: 243-286 (57.4 - 67.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Emboar Superpower vs. 128 HP / 252+ Def Lanturn: 189-223 (44.6 - 52.7%) -- 84% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

Whimsicott:
252 SpA Choice Specs Whimsicott Energy Ball vs. 0 HP / 132 SpD Assault Vest Lanturn: 222-264 (56.7 - 67.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Whimsicott Energy Ball vs. 0 HP / 132 SpD Assault Vest Lanturn: 195-229 (49.8 - 58.5%) -- 98.4% chance to 2HKO

Delphox:
+1 252 SpA Delphox Bloom Doom (160 BP) vs. 128 HP / 252+ SpD Lanturn: 408-480 (96.4 - 113.4%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
+1 252 SpA Delphox Psyshock vs. 128 HP / 128 Def Lanturn: 229-270 (54.1 - 63.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (no like lanturn hits back)
0 SpA Lanturn Scald vs. +1 0 HP / 4 SpD Delphox: 92-110 (31.6 - 37.8%) -- 88.3% chance to 3HKO

Slowbro:
+1 4 SpA Slowbro Psyshock vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Lanturn: 201-237 (51.4 - 60.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Lanturn Volt Switch vs. +1 252 HP / 0 SpD Slowbro: 98-116 (24.8 - 29.4%) -- 99.9% chance to 4HKO
252+ SpA Lanturn Thunderbolt vs. +1 252 HP / 0 SpD Slowbro: 182-216 (46.1 - 54.8%) -- 55.9% chance to 2HKO

all of A+/A/A-:
252 SpA Choice Specs Rotom-Mow Leaf Storm vs. 0 HP / 132 SpD Assault Vest Lanturn: 390-462 (99.7 - 118.1%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Choice Band Sneasel Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 128 HP / 128 Def Lanturn: 246-289 (58.1 - 68.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Vikavolt Energy Ball vs. 0 HP / 132 SpD Assault Vest Lanturn: 168-198 (42.9 - 50.6%) -- 96.1% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Virizion Leaf Blade vs. 128 HP / 128 Def Lanturn: 294-348 (69.5 - 82.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Xatu Psychic vs. 128 HP / 252+ SpD Lanturn: 79-94 (18.6 - 22.2%) -- possible 6HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery (oh boy, something it actually pivots on like it was intended to do!)
252+ SpA Choice Specs Guzzlord Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 132 SpD Assault Vest Lanturn: 204-241 (52.1 - 61.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Fist Plate Reckless Hitmonlee High Jump Kick vs. 128 HP / 128 Def Lanturn: 406-478 (95.9 - 113%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Piloswine Earthquake vs. 128 HP / 128 Def Lanturn: 384-452 (90.7 - 106.8%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
16+ Atk Rhydon Earthquake vs. 128 HP / 128 Def Lanturn: 386-456 (91.2 - 107.8%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Sceptile Leaf Storm vs. 128 HP / 252+ SpD Lanturn: 470-554 (111.1 - 130.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Audino-Mega Dazzling Gleam vs. 128 HP / 252+ SpD Lanturn: 90-106 (21.2 - 25%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery (eh, this kinda gets walled as the leftovers Lanturn set has Toxic to wittle it down, but at the same time, M-audino can also run a defensive set with toxic and proceed to wish/protect stall even while toxicated.)
252+ Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Druddigon Gunk Shot vs. 128 HP / 128 Def Lanturn: 294-346 (69.5 - 81.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 Atk Druddigon Dragon Tail vs. 128 HP / 128 Def Lanturn: 97-115 (22.9 - 27.1%) -- 0.9% chance to 4HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Froslass Shadow Ball vs. 128 HP / 252+ SpD Lanturn: 107-126 (25.2 - 29.7%) -- 0% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery (handy considering the main froslass set is intended to spike up, luckily you now give it all opportunity to do so)
0 Atk Garbodor Gunk Shot vs. 128 HP / 128 Def Lanturn: 159-187 (37.5 - 44.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 SpA Houndoom Black Hole Eclipse (160 BP) vs. 0 HP / 132 SpD Assault Vest Lanturn: 331-391 (84.6 - 100%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 SpA Mismagius Never-Ending Nightmare (160 BP) vs. 0 HP / 132 SpD Assault Vest Lanturn: 321-378 (82 - 96.6%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ Atk Samurott Savage Spin-Out (190 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Lanturn: 378-445 (83.4 - 98.2%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
0 SpA Seismitoad Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 132 SpD Assault Vest Lanturn: 122-146 (31.2 - 37.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock (eh, even so its toxic + sub/protect set wittles and lanturn is required to have HP grass to actually beat you)
252 SpA Life Orb Sigilyph Energy Ball vs. 128 HP / 252+ SpD Lanturn: 187-221 (44.2 - 52.2%) -- 73.4% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
136+ Atk Steelix Earthquake vs. 128 HP / 128 Def Lanturn: 308-366 (72.8 - 86.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+1 252 SpA Vaporeon Hidden Power Grass vs. 0 HP / 132 SpD Assault Vest Lanturn: 124-148 (31.7 - 37.8%) -- 91.3% chance to 3HKO (It answeres the celebrate set atleast, the Wish set... not so much)
0 SpA Vileplume Giga Drain vs. 128 HP / 252+ SpD Lanturn: 152-180 (35.9 - 42.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+1 252 SpA Vivillon Energy Ball vs. 0 HP / 132 SpD Assault Vest Lanturn: 164-194 (41.9 - 49.6%) -- 85.9% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Now why did I randomely list calcs of possibly outdated Lanturn sets taking the most unfavorable hit from some of the most standerd sets for the pokemon in S to A-?
Well, one of the main selling points of Lanturns is its ability to pivot, which it clearly can't reliably do with Bulky Leftovers or the AV set. Instead the main use it could provide would be in the form of Specs... which is too slow and even more so lacks the bulk to check anything faster then it, let alone provide opportunity for such a set to come in. Compared to the vast number of faster, stronger and more versatile pokemon to give pivoting opportunity such as Rotom-Mow, Normal-Rotom, Whimsicott and bulkier pivots such as Vikavolt, Xatu and even our old-but-still-not-shitty friend AV Incineroar all provide better opportunity gain, check vastly more relevant pokemon and have less painfull risks to take whilst pivoting against what they could pivot on under normal circumstances.
Not to mention how clearly disfavored sets such as AV/Specs are in current metagame for the concerning lack of recovery with hazard spam, Toxic stall and various other forms of chip damage.

 

[Ampharo]

Rotom-Mow A+>A

The current meta filled with scarf/specs Vanilluxe, scarfed Delphox, Guzzlord, and Whimsicott really don't go in it's favor at all. Many teams render both of it's stabs when choiced incredibly risky, take a situation where both Seismitoad and Delphox are on the opposing team, you click volt switch and potentially get walled by seismitoad staying in or you click leaf storm and risk Delphox switching in and do nothing + give delphox a free hit on whatever you switch in on. Rotom-Mow runs into many fifty-fifty situations like this when it's choiced, there are effective combinations like incineroar+volt switch rotom, but having to rely on another Pokemon living to be of much use isn't the greatest considering said Pokemon most likely isn't always going to be alive to support it. Unchoiced there's a lot less prediction involved of course, but it's pressured to almost always click volt switch in the current meta, and isn't really able to utilize leaf storm or thunderbolt much because of fear of what may switch in, and only being able to use 105 volt switch in a lot of games just isn't A+ worthy to me.

 

[poh]

Dodrio hits those mons harder and faster with BB and it's only B rank, and doesn't have a X4 SR weakness, so I disagree.

Click to collapse...

B- --> B / B+

Scarf Scyther is surprisingly good in the current meta as it deals with a lot of the threats that are in the A ranks. Scyther can revengekill Whimsicott, Emboar, Rotom-Mow (I like to run Bug Bite over Pursuit), Virizion, Hitmonlee, +1 Vivillon I think you get the point. On top of that Scyther outspeeds and has a small chance to KO Scarf Delphox with Knock Off which is quite a big selling point in my opinion. Being able to threaten said threats means that it forces switches and U-turn capitalizes on them and lets you keep momentum, unlike Dodrio. Ofcourse it's 4x weak to rocks and it still struggles with the traditional Flying-resists but those aren't all that difficult to wear down. Life Orb Samurott is a good partner cause it deals with said Flying-resists/rockers and mons like Slowbro and Seismitoad.

Supporting:

A --> A-

A+ --> A

C- --> UR

 

[LORD HELIX 65]

Drampa: C+ to B-
Looking at the viability rankings, Drampa is really out of place in C+. It is easily on the same level as Tauros, Scyther, and Sawk due to it's amazing movepool and versatility. It often runs specs and while this role may seem outclassed by Guzzlord, Drampa has much better special attack and has more moves like Ice beam, thunderbolt, and even surf. It can also run Z-Hyper beam which can be absolutely devestating against most things that don't resist it. It also has a Calm mind Roost set, which meshes well with its ability, Berserk, which boosts special attack when under 50% health. Drampa is a slow Pokemon though, which may be a hindrance to normal sets, but makes it an excellent choice for a trick room team.

 

[Disjunction]

A- --> A
Drud is, in my opinion, the best rocker rn. Pure Dragon-typing with its ability to invalidate Xatu, check Emboar, and act as a soft check to just about every high level offensive threat bar whims/vanilluxe is super important. It's super splashable and super reliable.

A- --> A
Houndoom has been criminally underrated for a long while, but I think everyone can at least admit it's amazing right now because of how much pressure it puts on the second best Pokemon in the tier, Delphox. The Pursuit set is very potent right now considering how you invalidate both Xatu and Delphox. Nasty Plot sets also do almost as good a job at breaking down defensive cores as CM Delphox considering the only really reliable switch in is Guzzguzz.

A+ --> A
Slowbro is too slow and too easily exploitable. Calm Mind sets hardly have a chance to get more than 1 boost because of the plethora of special attackers that just pile the pressure onto Slowbro. As a result, you rarely see Slowbro sitting around as a win condition for a game, but instead as a passive deterrent for certain attackers. It is by far not a threatening Pokemon anymore and I think A+ is understating the cost of real offensive pressure that you're sacrificing by running this thing.

B+ --> C+
Shuckle is shit as a webs setter. Xatu's omnipresence in the tier completely invalidates it and the only reason you should consider using Shuckle is if it's as a ct choice against someone you know isn't going to hit you with xatu.

B --> B+
I've been using Jellicent a bit recently and it's actually pretty cool in the recent meta. It has a favorable matchup against a lot of the stuff that's hot right now, such as Klinklang, Delphox, and Samurott. It's probably the most useful spinblocker we have right now in terms of overall usefulness for a team and it's bulky enough to support outside of just the mons I listed.

B --> A-
I think most of us have tested with this thing enough to justify the bigger jump in rank. Shutting down Vanilluxe and Delphox with reliable recovery? Absolutely yes. It struggles with xatu, but unfortunately this is the tier we play and sometimes you have to sacrifice the ability to set up rocks safely for invaluable defensive utility. This thing saves defensive teams by itself and it should stand alongside equally useful rockers, such as Steelix and Seis.

B --> C/C-
To be frank, this thing is bad. It's worse than Tauros and Tauros is outright disappointing. While I think Garbodor is a great pokemon, I don't think Kanga spikes are all that useful just because Kangaskhan itself is a mediocre offensive threat that hardly pressures hyper offensive playstyles, let alone anything with a defensive backbone.

B- --> C+/C
I think the hype around Toge is dying and for good reason. Vikavolt itself is kind of waning a bit in popularity and they were starting to run HP Ground anyhow. Rotom-Mow isn't the metagame defining threat it once was. Offensive Whimsicott can usually beat this with HP Ground or sub seed as well. Vanilluxe has run HP Ground since before this thing was popular too. I think it has a niche place, but it's not really relevant to talk about nowadays.

B+ --> B-
Honestly, the only reason I'm not vouching for any lower is that I don't like dramatic shifts. However, I feel Uxie is almost useless on most teams considering how much of a do-nothing Pokemon it is. You're forced to run Skill Swap if you want it to have any sort of favorable matchup as a Stealth Rock setter in a tier run by Xatu, which forces the rest of your moveset to be suboptimal. Calm Mind sets shouldn't even be talked about considering they're worse than Slowbro's and Slowbro's Calm Mind sets are already bad enough. It doesn't do any damage and it's easy to wear down, so it makes you wonder "Why would I ever use this?"

B --> C
This is strictly worse than Mega Audino, the rightful A+ rank threat. The same that I said for Uxie can be said for Aroma. "Why would I ever use this?"

There's probably some others here and there I disagree with, but I'll leave the post as is for now.

 

[Michael Jordan]

Dodrio B --> B+
As a normal type who can break through both steelix and rhydon is quite big in this tier, while also being a pokemon that checks everything in the S rank with a scarf set. Looking at the B+ rank, things like golbat and cryo invite S rank mons like Vanilluxe and Emboar, but between the S ranks and the A- ranks what does dodrio allow in. I think this warrants a small rise.

 

[Ampha]

(first time actually posting in this VR)
Komala C- -> UR:Agree
Komala hasn't got much utility in the tier now,We have a lot of defensive mons,plus a meta with a lot of Fight types as NU needs something better and his 65HP/65HP don't help at all when doing a team,there are a lot of mons who can actually do better than it,and as of offense it suffers from it's lacking speed and competition with some other normal types who can do much better than it
Togedemaru B- -> B
Resuming it,togedemaru is a great special wall in the tier, which can tank many Top tier mons and heal your own ones wish+uturn combo,while it can also scout what move a choice item user will lock itself with Spiky shield and gaining momentum to yourself,while it can also hold toxic for some passive damage(combo'ed with spiky shield) or Zing whatzapp zap for offensive utility

Some defensive calcs I did with it x top tier mons

252 SpA Choice Specs Vanilluxe Blizzard vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Togedemaru: 105-124 (31.5 - 37.2%) -- 85.7% chance to 3HKO after hail damage and Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Vanilluxe Hidden Power Ground vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Togedemaru: 308-364 (92.4 - 109.3%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Vikavolt Bug Buzz vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Togedemaru: 114-135 (34.2 - 40.5%) -- 55.9% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Vikavolt Savage Spin-Out (175 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Togedemaru: 149-176 (44.7 - 52.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Rotom-Mow Leaf Storm vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Togedemaru: 120-141 (36 - 42.3%) -- 95.1% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Guzzlord Dark Pulse vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Togedemaru: 154-183 (46.2 - 54.9%) -- 10.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (Does Wish and recovers itself)
+6 252 SpA Vivillon Hurricane vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Togedemaru: 122-144 (36.6 - 43.2%) -- 99.2% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
+6 252 SpA Vivillon Bug Buzz vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Togedemaru: 200-236 (60 - 70.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Froslass Shadow Ball vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Togedemaru: 109-129 (32.7 - 38.7%) -- 4.1% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery (this thing is mostly spikes set but meh)
252 SpA Choice Specs Sceptile Focus Blast vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Togedemaru: 296-350 (88.8 - 105.1%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO (while Giga drain or Leaf storm don't take half of it's HP)
252 SpA Mismagius Never-Ending Nightmare (160 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Togedemaru: 198-234 (59.4 - 70.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 252 SpA Mismagius Never-Ending Nightmare (160 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Togedemaru: 297-349 (89.1 - 104.8%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Whimsicott Twinkle Tackle (175 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Togedemaru: 89-105 (26.7 - 31.5%) -- 25.5% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery (all the rest doesn't take much)
4 SpA Slowbro Fire Blast vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Togedemaru: 140-166 (42 - 49.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
And some other ones who I wont put here because this is getting kinda huge)

For now it's this :)