Yes, but what if they Taunt the one who they think will use it again? Better to keep them on their toes.
-
Check out the relaunch of our general collection, with classic designs and new ones by our very own Pissog!
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
Metagame Partners in Crime
- Thread starter jasprose
- Start date
I never had problems against TR without using flinch hax, because Taunt or double-taunt in case of mental herb usually is enough to prevent TR from going up; but I have to agree that Serene Grace is uncompetitive and should be banned, along with Noivern (Boomburst), Shell Smash and Geomancy.
Noivern shouldn't be banned at all when Wide Guard exists. Shell Smash and Geomancy get dunked on by TR as well. And if you really struggle, put a Haze somewhere in your team, it is a great move in this tier.
Another option to stop Trick Room is Imprison + Trick Room. Yes it takes up 2 / 8 Moves, but Taunt risks being Magic Bounced and Mental Herbed, or... you Taunt the wrong opponent and you wasted your turn. 6 moves can still be useful.
You could give those moves to a slow Pokémon that could use Trick Room, paired with a Prankster user, so that way you outspeed the opponent while still being able to abuse Trick Room for Attacks if you need it for later (Imprison is a way to prevent the foe, with Prankster allowing your slow Pokémon to still be first if you don’t want to set TR [i.e. a strat you could save for after you eliminate their TR abusers], plus Imprison blocks any other moves your teammates on the field are using). <Dusclops learns both Trick Room and Imprison>
Imprison is an underrated move, because you could keep the imprisoned Pokémon in while switching out your teammate with U-Turn, etc. allowing you to stop foes on predicted attacks/moves. Imprison means they can’t use the moves before the start of the turn (if it is currently stopped), and during the turn if the moves change like with switching out a partner to affect your 8 moves).
Klefki, Sableye, and Meowstick-Male all learn Imprison and have Prankster, while Meowstick-Male also learns Trick Room.
By switching in Pokémon with Mat Block, Wide Guard, Earthquake, etc. and other common moves that are great, with Imprison up, can also prevent your foe from doing many things, Smeargle can learn pretty much anything.
You could give those moves to a slow Pokémon that could use Trick Room, paired with a Prankster user, so that way you outspeed the opponent while still being able to abuse Trick Room for Attacks if you need it for later (Imprison is a way to prevent the foe, with Prankster allowing your slow Pokémon to still be first if you don’t want to set TR [i.e. a strat you could save for after you eliminate their TR abusers], plus Imprison blocks any other moves your teammates on the field are using). <Dusclops learns both Trick Room and Imprison>
Imprison is an underrated move, because you could keep the imprisoned Pokémon in while switching out your teammate with U-Turn, etc. allowing you to stop foes on predicted attacks/moves. Imprison means they can’t use the moves before the start of the turn (if it is currently stopped), and during the turn if the moves change like with switching out a partner to affect your 8 moves).
Klefki, Sableye, and Meowstick-Male all learn Imprison and have Prankster, while Meowstick-Male also learns Trick Room.
By switching in Pokémon with Mat Block, Wide Guard, Earthquake, etc. and other common moves that are great, with Imprison up, can also prevent your foe from doing many things, Smeargle can learn pretty much anything.
Last edited:
Imprison is kind of devious. I like it.
Anyway, I get the impression that most people playing PiC are primarily singles players and might not be used to working with trick room. I'm sure someone else could do a better job with this, but to whomever it may help:
Did I forget anything?
EDIT: Whoops! Not sure why I thought Latios and Latias got trick room, but it's fixed now.
Anyway, I get the impression that most people playing PiC are primarily singles players and might not be used to working with trick room. I'm sure someone else could do a better job with this, but to whomever it may help:
Cresselia
Diancie
Hoopa
Stakataka
Gardevoir
Meowstic
Honorable mention: Whimsicott, Malamar, Comfey, Gothitelle, Porygon 2, and Mimikyu
Diancie
Hoopa
Stakataka
Gardevoir
Meowstic
Honorable mention: Whimsicott, Malamar, Comfey, Gothitelle, Porygon 2, and Mimikyu
Follow me: Mr. Mime
Fake out: Mr. Mime, Jynx, Mew, Spinda, Kecleon, Meowstic
Wide guard: Mr. Mime, Stakataka, Gallade
Quick guard: Mr. Mime, Gallade, Meowstic
-Many also learn after you, ally switch, and imprison
Oblivious: Slowpoke/bro/king, Jynx
Inner focus: Alakazam, Hypno, Gallade-mega, Oranguru (But telepathy is usually better)
Magic bounce: Sableye-mega, Espeon
Fake out: Mr. Mime, Jynx, Mew, Spinda, Kecleon, Meowstic
Wide guard: Mr. Mime, Stakataka, Gallade
Quick guard: Mr. Mime, Gallade, Meowstic
-Many also learn after you, ally switch, and imprison
Oblivious: Slowpoke/bro/king, Jynx
Inner focus: Alakazam, Hypno, Gallade-mega, Oranguru (But telepathy is usually better)
Magic bounce: Sableye-mega, Espeon
Crabominable + anger point + frost breath
Araquanid + a water type with better stats and possibly a setup move
Gastrodon + surf
Meowstic-F + competitive + skill swap + a SpAttacking partner with intimidate (It might be better outside of trick room, but since Meowstic-F is also a setter, I thought I'd mention it)
Abusers/TR setters with access to feint (Heracross, Gallade, Scizor, Breloom, Hariyama, Kecleon)
Just using any slow mon with great offensive stats
Shuckle + Chansey + guard split, for the memes
Araquanid + a water type with better stats and possibly a setup move
Gastrodon + surf
Meowstic-F + competitive + skill swap + a SpAttacking partner with intimidate (It might be better outside of trick room, but since Meowstic-F is also a setter, I thought I'd mention it)
Abusers/TR setters with access to feint (Heracross, Gallade, Scizor, Breloom, Hariyama, Kecleon)
Just using any slow mon with great offensive stats
Shuckle + Chansey + guard split, for the memes
Other TR users
Roar/Whirlwind/Dragontail/Circle Throw
Priority
Taunt
Imprison + TR
Strong attacks that can KO your setter
Roar/Whirlwind/Dragontail/Circle Throw
Priority
Taunt
Imprison + TR
Strong attacks that can KO your setter
EDIT: Whoops! Not sure why I thought Latios and Latias got trick room, but it's fixed now.
Last edited:
Slower TR teams aren't a counter to TR teams, because the faster opponent can just cancel TR by using it when it's up. Also, how dare you forgetting Mimikyu and my boi Porygon2 as setters >:(
Besides that, you summarized it well. Even though I never saw a Lati as a TR setter (and I have been playing multiple formats for a long time).
Besides that, you summarized it well. Even though I never saw a Lati as a TR setter (and I have been playing multiple formats for a long time).
Except for Prankster. Sableye before a Mega and Meowstick-Male pack Prankster and Trick Room.
Dusclops with Eviolite to use Trick Room and Imprison. I know Imprison isn’t used in DOU, but Dusclops is bulky enough to be a useful Trick Roomer in DOU.
Have any of you found any underrated threats here? I myself like using Lycanroc-Midday when paired up with Deo-A and chlorophyll Shiftry. Tough Claws Boosted Fire Punch, Ice Punch, and E-Speed is really good as combos with Deo-A. Tough Claws & Sun-Boosted Fire Fang, plus T.C. Boosted Knock Off, Fake Out, and Leaf Blade are all good too with Chlorophyll Shiftry. I don't see too many Machamps on Trick Room and I honestly think it's pretty good with Dynamic Punch and the decent bulk it has.
Machamp could be good yeah, but a little Intimidate and it hits as hard as a wet noodle.
About underrated threats, I could have said Gastrodon 10 days earlier, but now people aknowledge its strengh. The same goes for Porygon2.
I humbly disagree.
Intimidate? Sure. The strongest, and most used, intimidate users, Landorus-T and Mega Salamence, are 4x weak to Ice.
Good luck vs a Mono Ice team :D
-2 or -4 Attack matters very little when you Icicle Crash their butt off :D
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7partnersincrime-675484457
(just an example, I demolished all the intimidate cores I encountered, I struggle way more vs Rain...)
Mono Ice looks fun
Too bad Mega-Lucario is a thing
Too bad Mega-Lucario is a thing
Im enjoying this metagame.
The name has kept me away from it, but as soon as i looked closer i started to like it.
You can expect 64 move combinations from your opponent each turn.
This is the main reason there is so little switching in this metagame.
Which leads to the next point, Intimidate and its counters; Defiant, Competitive and Contrary.
Its a game deciding factor if you start both leads with 0,5x Attack or 2x Attack or 3x Special Attack.
Even if you dont use any of these your pokechoices are influenced by those.
You have to commit to a playstyle to make it work.
I faced these in my 50+ battles;
1.) Offensive
2.) immunity
3.) Aerilate
4.) Rain
5.) Sand
6.) Sun
7.) Electric Terrain
8.) Psychic Terrain
9.) Trick Room
10.) Gimmicks
All pokes are legal and the banlist is very close to Doubles/VGC for an OM.
For an oldschool BH and Classic Hackmons player like me its a sweet challenge.
I have to say;
Balanced Hackmons and this meta are the complete opposite to each other.
In Balanced Hackmons a sweeper is considered good if he is "Imposterproof"
You have to gimp your item, ability and moveslot(s) to prevent a countersweep.
In PiC you want to build up partner and team synergy to the extreme.
The more "top pairs" you have the higher your chance for a win.
The name has kept me away from it, but as soon as i looked closer i started to like it.
You can expect 64 move combinations from your opponent each turn.
This is the main reason there is so little switching in this metagame.
Which leads to the next point, Intimidate and its counters; Defiant, Competitive and Contrary.
Its a game deciding factor if you start both leads with 0,5x Attack or 2x Attack or 3x Special Attack.
Even if you dont use any of these your pokechoices are influenced by those.
You have to commit to a playstyle to make it work.
I faced these in my 50+ battles;
1.) Offensive
2.) immunity
3.) Aerilate
4.) Rain
5.) Sand
6.) Sun
7.) Electric Terrain
8.) Psychic Terrain
9.) Trick Room
10.) Gimmicks
All pokes are legal and the banlist is very close to Doubles/VGC for an OM.
For an oldschool BH and Classic Hackmons player like me its a sweet challenge.
I have to say;
Balanced Hackmons and this meta are the complete opposite to each other.
In Balanced Hackmons a sweeper is considered good if he is "Imposterproof"
You have to gimp your item, ability and moveslot(s) to prevent a countersweep.
In PiC you want to build up partner and team synergy to the extreme.
The more "top pairs" you have the higher your chance for a win.
Liar, you have a Greninja on your mono-Ice team! You can't do that on Monotype! >:(
...... Alright, let's be serious here. That's the team that PokeaimMD used for Partners In Crime, the difference being Mega Salamence replacing Mega Pinsir. That team isn't exactly known to be great. And being mono-flying for whatever reason, it's not good at dealing with Ice-types.
As for Intimidate, there are still quite a number of Pokemon with it. As for Landorus-T and Salamence, they could just switch out for something that resists Ice, which the opponent lacks in that replay.
Besides, you could use Icicle Crash on Dragonite. Teravolt will bypass Multiscale. Also, why do you think it's a good idea to command Ninetales to use Icicle Crash?
Here's a Tailwind/TR team that I've used to hover in the 1400s for a while. It has a shitty matchup vs. sun and it's a bit sketchy vs. full Trick Room, but outside of a few gimmicks there's not really any team it CAN'T beat, I don't think. I didn't save replays, but I did beat Soul Dew Latias twice, if that counts for anything?
So the basic structure of the team is Mega Salamence and Genesect are fastmons with solid damage output, Milotic and Zapdos are versatile support mons that are fat enough to set up speed control and have enough damage output to make a difference, and Stakataka and Dhelmise are Trick Room backup with useful resistances and a nasty damage output.
Salamence @ Salamencite
Ability: Intimidate
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 60 Atk / 196 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Double-Edge
- Hyper Voice
- Tailwind
- Protect
This is a normal Doubles set from the dex and I'm satisfied with it. Intimidate is really useful, and it's not ~too~ hard to play around Competitive/Intimidate/Contrary when it's around as long as you don't lead with it. Tailwind helps 4/6 of the team, and Hyper Voice is a spammable spread move (especially with Zapdos around).
Zapdos @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Static
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 244 HP / 136 Def / 80 SpD / 48 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Tailwind
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Grass]
- Whirlwind
This departs pretty far from the dex, but the EVs are pretty similar. Tailwind+Tbolt is normal, while Whirlwind is necessary for stopping MGengar, boosting strategies, and Trick Room. HP Ice doesn't feel necessary because every mon it's normally paired with already gives it Ice coverage or Flying STAB, so HP Grass is used if Mega Swampert gets too annoying. Static will, additionally, occasionally just neuter mons for you. Roost didn't see enough use to warrant a moveslot -- it's a support mon, not a wall -- but you can sub it in over HP Grass if you really want.
Milotic @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Competitive
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 208 Def / 48 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Icy Wind
- Recover
- Protect
Love this mon. It's so fat, and so good at getting speed control, and makes it harder for the opponent to use Intimidate or Sticky Webs. The team's special orientation helps a lot vs. Intimidate anyways, but this just wins more. Usually the move is to Protect with the other mon and set up Tailwind with Milotic, and then go from there.
Genesect @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Download
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- U-turn
- Ice Beam
- Iron Head
- Extreme Speed
Chosen more for its utility than for raw damage output. Download is really fun when both mons get it, and Genesect's speed tier with a Scarf is juuust right to make things a lot easier on me. U-Turn is great for flexibility, and Espeed makes Mmence a Mmenace.
Dhelmise @ Life Orb
Ability: Steelworker
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 188 HP / 252 Atk / 12 Def / 56 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Anchor Shot
- Power Whip
- Rock Slide
- Protect
Dhelmise provides a lot of important resistances for the team (Electric, Water, Fighting, Ground, Grass), and has especially good synergy with Stakataka both defensively and offensively. It's stupidly powerful in its own right, and Rock Slide is just a good spread move to have around. It can only take like, two resisted hits, but that's all it really needs to.
Stakataka @ Fightinium Z
Ability: Beast Boost
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Lonely Nature
IVs: 15 Def / 0 Spe
- Trick Room
- Superpower
- Gyro Ball
- Stealth Rock / Rock Slide / Stone Edge
The team's lone Trick Room setter and lone bulky Steel-type, both of which are important for shoring up the team's weaknesses. It's stupidly easy to KO if you have a Ground or Fighting move, fairly easy if you have a Water move, and stupidly hard otherwise. That's what's great about this meta though, it can just Protect while its teammate sets up Trick Room for it. It's plenty strong in its own right, but with Dhelmise by its side, as someone upthread stated... you WILL catch these hands. Rocks are useful as a backup measure for stupid gimmicks and Sash users (esp. with Dhelmise already giving Rock Slide), but if you don't find that necessary you can just run a Rock STAB.
Salamence @ Salamencite
Ability: Intimidate
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 60 Atk / 196 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Double-Edge
- Hyper Voice
- Tailwind
- Protect
This is a normal Doubles set from the dex and I'm satisfied with it. Intimidate is really useful, and it's not ~too~ hard to play around Competitive/Intimidate/Contrary when it's around as long as you don't lead with it. Tailwind helps 4/6 of the team, and Hyper Voice is a spammable spread move (especially with Zapdos around).
Zapdos @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Static
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 244 HP / 136 Def / 80 SpD / 48 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Tailwind
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Grass]
- Whirlwind
This departs pretty far from the dex, but the EVs are pretty similar. Tailwind+Tbolt is normal, while Whirlwind is necessary for stopping MGengar, boosting strategies, and Trick Room. HP Ice doesn't feel necessary because every mon it's normally paired with already gives it Ice coverage or Flying STAB, so HP Grass is used if Mega Swampert gets too annoying. Static will, additionally, occasionally just neuter mons for you. Roost didn't see enough use to warrant a moveslot -- it's a support mon, not a wall -- but you can sub it in over HP Grass if you really want.
Milotic @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Competitive
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 208 Def / 48 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Icy Wind
- Recover
- Protect
Love this mon. It's so fat, and so good at getting speed control, and makes it harder for the opponent to use Intimidate or Sticky Webs. The team's special orientation helps a lot vs. Intimidate anyways, but this just wins more. Usually the move is to Protect with the other mon and set up Tailwind with Milotic, and then go from there.
Genesect @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Download
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- U-turn
- Ice Beam
- Iron Head
- Extreme Speed
Chosen more for its utility than for raw damage output. Download is really fun when both mons get it, and Genesect's speed tier with a Scarf is juuust right to make things a lot easier on me. U-Turn is great for flexibility, and Espeed makes Mmence a Mmenace.
Dhelmise @ Life Orb
Ability: Steelworker
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 188 HP / 252 Atk / 12 Def / 56 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Anchor Shot
- Power Whip
- Rock Slide
- Protect
Dhelmise provides a lot of important resistances for the team (Electric, Water, Fighting, Ground, Grass), and has especially good synergy with Stakataka both defensively and offensively. It's stupidly powerful in its own right, and Rock Slide is just a good spread move to have around. It can only take like, two resisted hits, but that's all it really needs to.
Stakataka @ Fightinium Z
Ability: Beast Boost
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Lonely Nature
IVs: 15 Def / 0 Spe
- Trick Room
- Superpower
- Gyro Ball
- Stealth Rock / Rock Slide / Stone Edge
The team's lone Trick Room setter and lone bulky Steel-type, both of which are important for shoring up the team's weaknesses. It's stupidly easy to KO if you have a Ground or Fighting move, fairly easy if you have a Water move, and stupidly hard otherwise. That's what's great about this meta though, it can just Protect while its teammate sets up Trick Room for it. It's plenty strong in its own right, but with Dhelmise by its side, as someone upthread stated... you WILL catch these hands. Rocks are useful as a backup measure for stupid gimmicks and Sash users (esp. with Dhelmise already giving Rock Slide), but if you don't find that necessary you can just run a Rock STAB.
Dhelmise + Stakataka's Gyro Ball looks yummy indeed
Zapdos is a bit surprising here since it doesn't benefit from the game mode as much as other mons do, but I guess it works. It is bulky and brings a lot on the table by itself, as well as being a good check to flying spam. Don't have much more to say, just don't dare putting Stealth Rock on Staccataka. It makes you lose a lot of momentum for something you don't seem to need much. It's better imo to have your Stak independant from Dhelmise's Rock Slide. You won't always have it alive when you will need rock moves.
Zapdos is a bit surprising here since it doesn't benefit from the game mode as much as other mons do, but I guess it works. It is bulky and brings a lot on the table by itself, as well as being a good check to flying spam. Don't have much more to say, just don't dare putting Stealth Rock on Staccataka. It makes you lose a lot of momentum for something you don't seem to need much. It's better imo to have your Stak independant from Dhelmise's Rock Slide. You won't always have it alive when you will need rock moves.
Last edited:
Tyranitar + Excadrill/Lycanroc is super annoying for a lot of teams right now. Mega Alakazam trace + Mega Gengar Skill Swap with Delcatty Normalize are nifty gimmicks that are doing decently well right now. Follow Me Clefable is pretty underrated right now. Also, I really like using Quiver Dance Pheromosa + Air Balloon Offensive Heatran + Tapu Lele. Very interesting core.
With so many Trick Room teams and Rock Slide spammers running around, I decided to try out a move, which is rarely seen outside of some BH memes - Imprison. It turned out to be very useful, so useful that I even slapped a Psychium Z on Victini to be able to use Z-Imprison of needed.
The main reason why Imprison is so useful in PiC is that it seals eight moves - those of the user and those of the user's ally - which can drastically hinder the opponent by blocking Protect, Recovery and - most important - Trick Room from going up.
This is my main Imprison user:
Victini @ Psychium Z
Ability: Victory Star
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Jolly Nature
- V-create
- Stored Power / Bolt Strike
- Trick Room
- Protect / Bolt Strike
Imprison is donated by a Kyurem-Black, but the almighty god of OU, Landorus-T, can donate it too, for example. When facing a TR team, the main goal is to set up a Z-Imprison, which goes through eventual taunts and boosts Victini's Special Defense, so that it becomes difficult to take down; also it boosts Stored Power a bit. Then, you can start snowballing by bringing in Contrary Serperior and using V-create. The good bulk, especially after a few boosts, makes it very difficult for the opponent to "unlock" Trick Room.
Against non-TR teams, you can either do the usual contrary stuff, or set up your own Trick Room, which is especially nice against extremely fast teams and makes the team very flexible.
When facing Rock Slide spammers,the fight becomes much easier as soon as you get off an Imprison with Kyurem-Black or Landorus (both know Imprison, the latter also has Intimidate to lower the opponent's damage output).
The main reason why Imprison is so useful in PiC is that it seals eight moves - those of the user and those of the user's ally - which can drastically hinder the opponent by blocking Protect, Recovery and - most important - Trick Room from going up.
This is my main Imprison user:
Victini @ Psychium Z
Ability: Victory Star
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Jolly Nature
- V-create
- Stored Power / Bolt Strike
- Trick Room
- Protect / Bolt Strike
Imprison is donated by a Kyurem-Black, but the almighty god of OU, Landorus-T, can donate it too, for example. When facing a TR team, the main goal is to set up a Z-Imprison, which goes through eventual taunts and boosts Victini's Special Defense, so that it becomes difficult to take down; also it boosts Stored Power a bit. Then, you can start snowballing by bringing in Contrary Serperior and using V-create. The good bulk, especially after a few boosts, makes it very difficult for the opponent to "unlock" Trick Room.
Against non-TR teams, you can either do the usual contrary stuff, or set up your own Trick Room, which is especially nice against extremely fast teams and makes the team very flexible.
When facing Rock Slide spammers,the fight becomes much easier as soon as you get off an Imprison with Kyurem-Black or Landorus (both know Imprison, the latter also has Intimidate to lower the opponent's damage output).
Can you please ban this shit? http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7partnersincrime-677009326
I don't mean Normalize Skill Swap, which is pretty easy to deal with, but Volbeat + Mega Gengar with Prankster Encore and Disable. If you don't lead with a Dark type or Tapu Lele against this, you auto-lose. Encore + Trapping being so uncompetitive has led to bans in multiple OMs which allowed for that combination, like Sketchmons or Balanced Hackmons, and I think it should be banned here too, especially because you can use Encore and Disable on the same turn, so that you don't have to eat an additional hit.
I don't mean Normalize Skill Swap, which is pretty easy to deal with, but Volbeat + Mega Gengar with Prankster Encore and Disable. If you don't lead with a Dark type or Tapu Lele against this, you auto-lose. Encore + Trapping being so uncompetitive has led to bans in multiple OMs which allowed for that combination, like Sketchmons or Balanced Hackmons, and I think it should be banned here too, especially because you can use Encore and Disable on the same turn, so that you don't have to eat an additional hit.
Imprison is great indeed. You just need to keep it up and Trick Room will go down the drain. Watch out though, if a KO goes through your Imprisoner, a good opponent will expect another Imprison, and so will just fire with its 2 Pokémon, eventually killing both of your mons. But when pulled off correctly, you can just beat the shit out of TR teams. I guess it's time for me to play Snatch somewhere :^)
Encore and Disable with trapping ? Sounds cancer ewww. I'm for banning that, especially because Tapu Lele gets dunked on by M-Gengar if not scarfer.
Btw I see less and less sleeping strategies, did we put a Sleep Clause finally?
Yes, a Sleep Clause exists, that was the only thing the council did for balance in this meta since its release...
PS: here is a replay, showing Z-Imprison against TR: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7partnersincrime-677022319
PS: here is a replay, showing Z-Imprison against TR: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7partnersincrime-677022319
Hey, that's already something. There isn't that much broken things out there actually. We just get rid of Shadow Tag + Disable + Encore + Prankster and we're good.
Nice replay
Nice replay
Here's another replay to show how fucking broken this shit is: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7partnersincrime-677054220
I lead with Gastro + Araquanid in attempt to overpower Gengar and Volbeat with Water Bubble and get a kill before they can start their trapping + encore + disable strategy, but of course they also have Skill Swap, so that even this is useless...
I lead with Gastro + Araquanid in attempt to overpower Gengar and Volbeat with Water Bubble and get a kill before they can start their trapping + encore + disable strategy, but of course they also have Skill Swap, so that even this is useless...
To be honest, I think getting rid of just Disable should be fine. Shadow Tag is VERY annoying but, Gengar is frail and goth is slow so, they have their weaknesses. Prankster is a great way to teeter strong mons from getting out of hand, plus: Tapu Lele and the great dark type mons we have here should be enough to keep the ability in check. Encore isn't too annoying as it does require a lot of predicting. Disable is the real monster here.
Without being rude, these replays you've posted are more evidence of your failure to adapt to build a better team / pick your leads better than any testament to Gengar's supposed broken-ness. Encore + Disable is also a thing in regular DOU, and it's not surprising to see players add techs to play around common strategies either.
In DOU, for example, Mega Salamence is a very strong Pokemon. It's one of (multiple) reasons almost every viable team in DOU runs a Steel-type and many run Intimidate. Similarly, having a Dark-type Pokemon / Tapu Lele in PiC will help you to beat multiple Prankster strategies besides just this one, so I'd advise you to consider that before calling for a ban. (Also, if you use your own Ghost-type Pokemon or your own Pokemon with Shadow Tag, you can break out of the trap too.) I noticed that you've made numerous posts in this thread calling for bans on completely un-broken stuff like Serene Grace, Boomburst/Noivern, Shell Smash, and Geomancy, so perhaps you should exercise some restraint before knee-jerking to something like this.
You can't really compare DOU with PiC. When I played DOU (was in the high 1600s, so not that bad), I never encountered such a strat, simply because it is not viable there due to Gengar not having access to Prankster.
Also, neither Dark Types nor Tapu Lele fit on every team - and even when you have them, you can't safely use them against this strategy due to Gengar getting Focus Blast and STAB poison attacks. And Lele's terrain doesn't protect flying types like Salamence - which is one of the best options against Normalize Skill Swap due to Aerilare overwriting Normalize.
But of course, criticizing the user who requested a ban is much easier than testing something for its banworthiness...
I am by far not the only one who requested some bans; and there are things others requested bans for, which I never had problems with due to being prepared for that - like Sleep, I had a Tapu Fini to counter this, until Sleep Clause got introduced.
Also, neither Dark Types nor Tapu Lele fit on every team - and even when you have them, you can't safely use them against this strategy due to Gengar getting Focus Blast and STAB poison attacks. And Lele's terrain doesn't protect flying types like Salamence - which is one of the best options against Normalize Skill Swap due to Aerilare overwriting Normalize.
But of course, criticizing the user who requested a ban is much easier than testing something for its banworthiness...
I am by far not the only one who requested some bans; and there are things others requested bans for, which I never had problems with due to being prepared for that - like Sleep, I had a Tapu Fini to counter this, until Sleep Clause got introduced.