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Clean Slate
- Thread starter earl
- Start date
And our winners are...
Jucherz wins with their Porygon-Z Sweeper
Anaconja's Forretress wins as a Hazard Control option
Tuther's Druddigon wins as a Hazard Setter
Tuther ups the terrain fun with their Unown
Also, it's a balance slate now! Cool! Here's what's getting balanced:
Base Swampert Nerf
Ninjask Nerf
Trapinch Buff
Pangoro Buff
Mega Swampert Buff
Base Audino Buff (just give us a reason to use it lol)
Free Slot 1 (free slots are for subbing your own beliefs in what should be changed, can be a buff or nerf)
Free Slot 2 (Same as above)
This slate will have a relatively fast turnaround. Also feel free to talk about the new additions!
Jucherz wins with their Porygon-Z Sweeper
Pokemon: Porygon-Z
Roles: Set-Up Sweeper, Wallbreaker, Special Attacker
Type:
Abilities: Malware* / Download / Analytic (HA)
Base Stats: 85 / 85 / 70 / 120 / 75 / 65 (500 BST)
Movepool Additions: Infestation, Leech Life
Movepool Removals: None
Custom Elements: Malware: On switch-in, this Pokemon lowers the Speed of adjacent opponents by 1 stage. (Intimidate clone)
Uses: Porygon-Z can work as a set-up sweeper with Z Conversion or Nasty Plot. Porygon-Z's new signature ability helps with its low Speed and makes setting up against faster foes easier.
Anaconja's Forretress wins as a Hazard Control option
Name of the Pokemon: Forretress (resub)
Role(s): Defensive Pivot, Hazard Control, Toxic Spikes Setter
Type:
Abilities: Overcoat / Regenerator
Stat Distribution: 70/100/130/60/80/40 (480 BST)
Movepool Additions: Lunge, Iron Head
Movepool Removals: Stealth Rock, Spikes, Sticky Web, Explosion
Justification: Forretress is a fantastic RegenVester, sporting great support moves in Lunge, Rapid Spin, and Volt Switch. It has only one weakness in Fire, it has good 70/130/80 bulk, and its decent 100 Attack allows it to OHKO Raichu-Alola with Gyro Ball. It is fairly passive, however, and is prone to setup from special setup sweepers.
Forretress @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Lunge
- Gyro Ball
- Rapid Spin
- Volt Switch
Forretress @ Leftovers / Rocky Helmet
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Lunge
- Toxic Spikes
- Rapid Spin
- Volt Switch
Tuther's Druddigon wins as a Hazard Setter
Name of the Pokemon: Druddigon
Role(s): Hazard Setter, Anti Hazard Removal, Wallbreaker
Type:
Abilities: Mold Breaker | Defiant
Stat Distribution: 90/120/90/75/90/55 | 500
Movepool Additions: Shadow Sneak, Spikes
Movepool Removals: Hone Claws
Custom Elements: none
Justification:
+: Can Spinblock and dissuades Defog, almost unresisted STAB combination, access to SR and Spikes, good defensive typing
-: Choice Band faces competition from Trevenant which has a better offensive typing, Pursuit weak, hard-walled by Audino
120 Atk allows Druddigon to 2HKO an uninvested Mew with Shadow Sneak.
90/90/90 bulk lets Druddigon takes several hits and allows it to have a lot of switch-in opportunity.
55 Spe allows Druddigon to outspeed a none invested Mew with 252 EVs and a neutral Nature.
75 SpA because i want it to have 500 BST and this stat is useless.Hazard Setter
Druddigon @ Colbur Berry
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Spikes / Stealth Rock
- Dragon Claw
- Shadow Claw
- Shadow Slam
Choice Band
Druddigon @ Choice Band
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Shadow Claw
- Outrage
- Shadow Sneak
- Gunk Shot
Tuther ups the terrain fun with their Unown
On the note of Unown, I am preemptively removing Quiver Dance (+1 252 SpA Unown Aura Sphere vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Pangoro: 304-358 (100.3 - 118.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO), at +1 it easily 2HKOes Mew, can safely get up to +2 against Audino, and just generally blow past the entire metagame. Honestly this whole mon looks unhealthy as hell to me and I'm not entirely why I voted for it in retrospect but I guess we can wait and see how this shakes out.
Name of the Pokemon: Unown
Role(s): Set-Up Sweeper, Choice Attacker, Pivot
Type:
Abilities: Psychic Surge
Stat Distribution: 57/93/42/123/82/103 | 500
Movepool Additions: Aurasphere, Blizzard, Conversion, Dark Pulse, Explosion, Foul Play, Glare, Ice Beam, Judgment, Knock Off, Last Resort, Mean Look, Nature Power, Ominous Wind, Protect, Quiver Dance, Recover, Stealth Rock, Thunderbolt, U-Turn, V-Create, Will-O-Wisp, X-Scissor, Yawn, Zen Headbutt
Movepool Removals: none
Custom Elements: none
Justification:
+: Very versatile, powerfull, fast, can pivot, perfect neutral coverage
-: Struggles againt top tier such as Mew, Audino-Mega and Dark-types, bad typing
57/42 Physical bulk allows Scarf Pangoro to always OHKO Unown with Pursuit after SR.
93 Atk allows Toucannon to avoid the 2HKO from Choice Band Zen Headbutt
123 SpA allows Unown to OHKO Nihilego with Nature Power at +1 under Psychic Terrain.
57/82 Special bulk allows Unown to set up over Nihilego.
103 Speed sets Unown speed tiers between Nihilego and Sharpedo-Mega.Quiver Dance
Unown @ Spooky Plate
Ability: Psychic Surge
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Quiver Dance
- Nature Power
- Judgment
- Aura Sphere
Choice Attacker
Unown @ Choice Band / Choice Scarf
Ability: Psychic Surge
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Zen Headbutt
- U-Turn
- V-Create
- Knock Off / Explosion
Offensive Pivot
Unown @ Leftovers
Ability: Psychic Surge
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Nature Power
- U-Turn
- Will-O-Wisp / Glare
- Stealth Rock
Also the Speed Tier have been updated with Cacturne, Trevenant, Gardevoir and Ditto.
Also, it's a balance slate now! Cool! Here's what's getting balanced:
Base Swampert Nerf
Ninjask Nerf
Trapinch Buff
Pangoro Buff
Mega Swampert Buff
Base Audino Buff (just give us a reason to use it lol)
Free Slot 1 (free slots are for subbing your own beliefs in what should be changed, can be a buff or nerf)
Free Slot 2 (Same as above)
This slate will have a relatively fast turnaround. Also feel free to talk about the new additions!
Pokemon: Trapinch (Eviolite Compatible)
New Moves: Super Fang, Magic Coat, Shore Up
Justification: This gives it a way to gain slightly more bulk, a way to avoid status and something to stallbreak more easily. This way, we can make it as a true stallbreaker, that could take on things like celesteela, swalot or some sets of nihilego without being utterly destroyed.
Pokemon: Audino
Abilities: Aroma Veil / Regenerator / Natural Cure
Justification: Why was it removed in the first place?
Pokemon: Ninjask
Stats: 70 / 60 / 70 / 100 / 70 / 120
Move Rework: Water Shuriken — Now a water-type vacuum type clone.
Justification: What made Ninjask unfairly strong was how spammable Water Shuriken was. As long as you got more than 2 hits, this move was awfully strong. With almost no switch-ins to that move and even less revenge killers, you had almost no reasons not to use it, except maybe to use Air Cutter to hit Meganium or to use HP Grass to OHKO Swampert. With this rework and this little stat nerf, Ninjask is still a really strong pokemon, but no longer an unfair pokemon.
Trapinch Buff
Stat Changes:
65/100/65/45/65/45
Movepool Additions:
Fire Fang
Reasoning: 45 Speed outspeeds Celesteela with an Adamant nature. Fire Fang enables Trapinch to at least chip Forretress before getting eaten by a Lunge. I'm against any sort of bulky trapper (hello Gothitelle) so keeping it as more of a trap-then-sack mon should be cool
Mega Swampert Buff
Ability Change:
Stat Changes (-10 SpA from Swampert Base)
Reasoning: Keeps the spirit of an offensive weather-inducer but now gives it a much more beneficial weather to abuse.
Swampert Nerf
Stat Changes:
100/100/85/70/75/60
Reasoning: Max HP Max Attack Swampert is now 2HKO'd by Mega Sharpedo's Hydro Pump
More to come (minus Audino S/Os to Gravity Monkey)
(changes are underlined)
Name of the Pokemon: Swampert
Role(s): Stallbreaker, Set-up Sweeper
Type:
Abilities: Torrent / Poison Heal
New Stat Distribution: 100/100/95/80/65/60 (500 BST)
New Movepool Additions: High Horsepower
New Movepool Removals: Earthquake
Name of the Pokemon: Swampert-Mega
Role(s): Wallbreaker, Set-up Sweeper
Type:
Ability: Tough Claws
New Stat Distribution: 100/140/125/80/65/90 (+40 Atk, +30 Def, +30 Spe)
Justification: With these changes, Swampert is more vulnerable to special attacks, specifically Sharpedo-Mega (which it gets 2HKO’d by, assuming max HP and low SpD investment). Additionally, replacing Earthquake with Drill Run neuters Swampert’s offensive presence by making it checked by Cofagrigus while making Swampert-Mega more viable with Tough Claws.
Name of the Pokemon: Ninjask
Role(s): Priority Abuser, Revenge Killer, Mixed Attacker, Hazard Control
Type:
Abilities: Infiltrator / Technician
Stat Distribution: 70/90/60/90/60/135 (500 BST)
New Movepool Additions: Razor Wind*, Aqua Jet
New Movepool Removals: Air Cutter
Custom Elements: Razor Wind: Flying-type Confusion clone, with 20% chance to paralyze
Justification: Ninjask is overcentralizing because of its powerful Water Shurikens and Air Cutters. With a significant drop in Special Attack and raise in Attack, it balances its offensive presence while offering a physical set to play around, thanks to the addition of Aqua Jet. Razor Wind replaces Air Cutter to further reduce special power, and a slight reduction in bulk makes it more vulnerable.
Name of the Pokemon: Trapinch
Role(s): Choice Band, Trapper, Psuedo-Trapper
Type:
Abilities: Hyper Cutter / Arena Trap / Menace
Stat Distribution: 75/100/75/25/75/30 (380 BST)
Custom Elements: Menace: Lowers the opponent's highest base stat by 1 on switch-in
Justification: Trapinch's main problem is that having Ground and Dark as a defensive typing, as well as a terrible speed tier, makes it weak to more than half the meta. The addition of Menace and a bit of bulk alleviates this by lowering Attack from Swampert and Pangoro; Defense from Forretress, Cofagrigus, and Tapu Bulu; and so on.
Name of the Pokemon: Pangoro
Role(s): Wallbreaker, Pursuit Trapper, Revenge Killer
Type:
Abilities: Iron Fist / Intimidate / Sap Sipper
Stat Distribution: 81/110/93/62/80/84 (510 BST)
New Movepool Additions: Mach Punch, Sucker Punch, U-Turn
Justification: Pangoro looks solid on paper... until you realize there is only one trappable Psychic in Poipole and five Fairies in the metagame. U-Turn allows Pangoro to be more versatile, and the addition of Mach Punch and Sucker Punch gives it great priority moves, the former especially with all of the Dark types in the tier. While Pangoro still struggles with physical walls such as Milotic (especially if Pangoro has Intimidate), Tapu Bulu, and Audino-Mega, it cements itself better by being a more menacing wallbreaker and revenge killer.
Name of the Pokemon: Audino
Role(s): Mixed Wall, Set-up Check, Cleric
Type:
Abilities: Aroma Veil / Unaware / Natural Cure
Stat Distribution: 125/60/80/95/80/50 (490 BST)
New Movepool Removals: All Fire-type attacks
Justification: Audino is a great Unaware user with its good mixed bulk and defensive typing, allowing Nihilego to run Levitate. It's still threatened by Steel and Poison-types like Metagross, Poipole, and Celesteela, and is somewhat susceptible to poison.
Name of the Pokemon: Unown
Role(s): Special Attacker, Choice Specs, Hazard Control
Type:
Abilities: Psychic Surge
Stat Distribution: 57/93/42/123/82/103 (500 BST)
New Movepool Additions: Energy Ball, Grass Knot, Psychic, Psyshock, Calm Mind, Icy Wind, Rapid Spin, Mystical Fire
New Movepool Removals: V-Create, Judgement, Glare, Yawn, Recover, Stealth Rock, Quiver Dance, Ice Beam
Justification: I have no idea what kind of reasoning was used here: how is it walled by Mew when Mew always uses a physically defensive set? How is it walled by Audino-Mega when it has Quiver Dance and Recover? How is it walled by Dark-types when it can just use a Fairy Judgement? Half of these moves don't make any flavor sense, either, which makes me question why anyone voted for this in the first place (no offense). This movepool change makes it much less overpowered and overcentralizing, properly walled by Dark types, while allowing it to fulfill good roles like beating Swampert, helping Poipole, and being an offensive spinner.
Name of the Pokemon: Flaaffy
Role(s): Mixed Wall, Cleric, Hazard Control
Type:
(flying sheep lul)
Abilities: Natural Cure / Static / Fluffy
Stat Distribution: 100/55/40/90/70/60 (415 BST)
New Movepool Additions: Air Slash, Defog, Tailwind
New Movepool Removals: Dazzling Gleam, Moonlight
Justification: Flaaffy's typing makes it compete heavily (and lose) with Audino-Mega as a cleric. Making Flaafy a Flying type instead gives it a one up on the Ground-types in the tier like Swampert and Trapinch. Fluffy makes it a great physical wall, though also giving it a weakness to Sharpedo-Mega. It also gains a weakness to Stealth Rock and becomes neutral to Knock Off, limiting its ability to switch in.
Name of the Pokemon: Swampert
Role(s): Stallbreaker, Set-up Sweeper
Type:
Abilities: Torrent / Poison Heal
New Stat Distribution: 100/100/95/80/65/60 (500 BST)
New Movepool Additions: High Horsepower
New Movepool Removals: Earthquake
Name of the Pokemon: Swampert-Mega
Role(s): Wallbreaker, Set-up Sweeper
Type:
Ability: Tough Claws
New Stat Distribution: 100/140/125/80/65/90 (+40 Atk, +30 Def, +30 Spe)
Justification: With these changes, Swampert is more vulnerable to special attacks, specifically Sharpedo-Mega (which it gets 2HKO’d by, assuming max HP and low SpD investment). Additionally, replacing Earthquake with Drill Run neuters Swampert’s offensive presence by making it checked by Cofagrigus while making Swampert-Mega more viable with Tough Claws.
Name of the Pokemon: Ninjask
Role(s): Priority Abuser, Revenge Killer, Mixed Attacker, Hazard Control
Type:
Abilities: Infiltrator / Technician
Stat Distribution: 70/90/60/90/60/135 (500 BST)
New Movepool Additions: Razor Wind*, Aqua Jet
New Movepool Removals: Air Cutter
Custom Elements: Razor Wind: Flying-type Confusion clone, with 20% chance to paralyze
Justification: Ninjask is overcentralizing because of its powerful Water Shurikens and Air Cutters. With a significant drop in Special Attack and raise in Attack, it balances its offensive presence while offering a physical set to play around, thanks to the addition of Aqua Jet. Razor Wind replaces Air Cutter to further reduce special power, and a slight reduction in bulk makes it more vulnerable.
Name of the Pokemon: Trapinch
Role(s): Choice Band, Trapper, Psuedo-Trapper
Type:
Abilities: Hyper Cutter / Arena Trap / Menace
Stat Distribution: 75/100/75/25/75/30 (380 BST)
Custom Elements: Menace: Lowers the opponent's highest base stat by 1 on switch-in
Justification: Trapinch's main problem is that having Ground and Dark as a defensive typing, as well as a terrible speed tier, makes it weak to more than half the meta. The addition of Menace and a bit of bulk alleviates this by lowering Attack from Swampert and Pangoro; Defense from Forretress, Cofagrigus, and Tapu Bulu; and so on.
Name of the Pokemon: Pangoro
Role(s): Wallbreaker, Pursuit Trapper, Revenge Killer
Type:
Abilities: Iron Fist / Intimidate / Sap Sipper
Stat Distribution: 81/110/93/62/80/84 (510 BST)
New Movepool Additions: Mach Punch, Sucker Punch, U-Turn
Justification: Pangoro looks solid on paper... until you realize there is only one trappable Psychic in Poipole and five Fairies in the metagame. U-Turn allows Pangoro to be more versatile, and the addition of Mach Punch and Sucker Punch gives it great priority moves, the former especially with all of the Dark types in the tier. While Pangoro still struggles with physical walls such as Milotic (especially if Pangoro has Intimidate), Tapu Bulu, and Audino-Mega, it cements itself better by being a more menacing wallbreaker and revenge killer.
Name of the Pokemon: Audino
Role(s): Mixed Wall, Set-up Check, Cleric
Type:
Abilities: Aroma Veil / Unaware / Natural Cure
Stat Distribution: 125/60/80/95/80/50 (490 BST)
New Movepool Removals: All Fire-type attacks
Justification: Audino is a great Unaware user with its good mixed bulk and defensive typing, allowing Nihilego to run Levitate. It's still threatened by Steel and Poison-types like Metagross, Poipole, and Celesteela, and is somewhat susceptible to poison.
Name of the Pokemon: Unown
Role(s): Special Attacker, Choice Specs, Hazard Control
Type:
Abilities: Psychic Surge
Stat Distribution: 57/93/42/123/82/103 (500 BST)
New Movepool Additions: Energy Ball, Grass Knot, Psychic, Psyshock, Calm Mind, Icy Wind, Rapid Spin, Mystical Fire
New Movepool Removals: V-Create, Judgement, Glare, Yawn, Recover, Stealth Rock, Quiver Dance, Ice Beam
Justification: I have no idea what kind of reasoning was used here: how is it walled by Mew when Mew always uses a physically defensive set? How is it walled by Audino-Mega when it has Quiver Dance and Recover? How is it walled by Dark-types when it can just use a Fairy Judgement? Half of these moves don't make any flavor sense, either, which makes me question why anyone voted for this in the first place (no offense). This movepool change makes it much less overpowered and overcentralizing, properly walled by Dark types, while allowing it to fulfill good roles like beating Swampert, helping Poipole, and being an offensive spinner.
Name of the Pokemon: Flaaffy
Role(s): Mixed Wall, Cleric, Hazard Control
Type:
Abilities: Natural Cure / Static / Fluffy
Stat Distribution: 100/55/40/90/70/60 (415 BST)
New Movepool Additions: Air Slash, Defog, Tailwind
New Movepool Removals: Dazzling Gleam, Moonlight
Justification: Flaaffy's typing makes it compete heavily (and lose) with Audino-Mega as a cleric. Making Flaafy a Flying type instead gives it a one up on the Ground-types in the tier like Swampert and Trapinch. Fluffy makes it a great physical wall, though also giving it a weakness to Sharpedo-Mega. It also gains a weakness to Stealth Rock and becomes neutral to Knock Off, limiting its ability to switch in.
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Ninjask Nerf:
Stat changes: -10 SpA, -10 Spe
New Stat Spread: 70 / 60 / 70 / 100 / 70 / 110
Move Rework: Water Shuriken - always hits 3 times
Reasoning: Ninjask was too powerful. Even sets like Mystic Water could be devastating. The nerf to speed forces it to run Timid if it wants to outspeed Flygon. Combined with the nerf to SpA it effectively takes its SpA from 350 down to 299. The changes to Water Shuriken are warranted because getting a 110 BP priority move based on RNG was pretty unfair and a big part of why Ninjask was broken. It should still be able to do its job, as it's STAB combo is very hard to wall and it's strong priority moves will be hard for offense to deal with.
Audino:
I think Audino is just fine. 125/80/80 is really good defenses, 95 SpA with Moonblast means it hits pretty hard for a defensive pokemon in this metagame, and its typing leaves it with few weaknesses. Mega Audino is usually picked instead because it hits way harder ( actually I uploaded it with 135 SpA instead of the 125 we ended up deciding on, so it's been hitting harder than it should ). However Wish / Protect is kind of god awful when you can't hold Leftovers, and Mega Audino often wants to run 3 attacks, so I'd argue that regular Audino is worth picking for a Wish / Protect / Heal Bell set, especially if its teammates want to spread status. I also think giving such a bulky pokemon Regenerator or Unaware would create something annoyingly unbreakable. Clean Slate is already very bulky. Let it be a niche pick in my opinion.
Swampert Nerf:
Stat Changes: 100/100/75/70/75/60 (-10 Def, -10 SpD)
Reasoning: A moderate drop to both defenses leaves it much easier to break, but it still functions basically the same.
Mega Swampert Buff:
Stat Changes: 100/120/95/90/95/80 ( -15 Def, -15 SpD, +10 Spe )
Movepool Additions: Ice Beam
Ability Change: Sheer Force
Reasoning: Mega Swampert gains a much better speed tier for a wall breaker, allowing it to outspeed the Grass-types that hard counter its base form and hit them with a Sheer Force boosted Ice Beam, which can 2HKO Meganium after Stealth Rock, and also defeat Toucannon, who might try to Defog Stealth Rock away. Otherwise, it can run Sludge Wave to hit Meganium as well as Tapu Bulu and Milotic. This makes Swampert a good offensive Stealth Rocker that can beat some of the pokemon that would normally counter or Defog on base Swampert. Meanwhile the pokemon that wall it such as Cofagrigus, PhysDef Swampert and PhysDef Audino forms can't remove its Stealth Rock. In this way it functions similarly to Metagross as an offensive Stealth Rock user, having many advantages in comparison but lacking priority.
Pangoro Buff:
Stat Changes: 81/115/93/62/80/98 ( +5 Atk, +15 Spe )
Movepool Additions: U-turn
Ability Change: Thick Fat -> Thick Fur ( Reduces damage from Water- and Fighting-type moves by 50% )
Reasoning: This buff aims to preserve Pangoro as primarily a Choice Scarf user. The introduction of the Dragon/Ghost Druddigon has turned Parting Shot into a liability due to it getting Defiant, so U-turn is needed. U-turn is probably prefereable all around anyway, as Pangoro has the Attack stat to deal good chip with it. A boost to Speed helps it actually run Adamant like it was meant to, but could never afford to. Thick Fur is a better defensive ability ( Intimidate is tempting but again Druddigon ) that helps with types that are more relevant to it, helping it against Ninjask, Metagross, Trevenant, Cloyster, and even Unown if it runs Aura Sphere.
Milotic Buff (Free Slot #1):
Movepool Additions: Play Rough, Hydro Pump, Liquidation, Knock Off
Reasoning: It should have had Play Rough and Hydro Pump to begin with. These will help it run offensive Defog sets which is good because it seems to have trouble finding a nice defensively. Liquidation and Knock off are moves that were in the sample movesets in Milotic's submission, but apparently it doesn't actually learn, so it should get them too.
Flaafy Buff (Free Slot #2):
Stat Changes: 100/55/95/95/55/40 ( +15 Def, +25 SpA, -15 SpD )
Movepool Additions: Grass Knot, Energy Ball
Reasoning: Flaafy's biggest problem is how incredibly passive it is. It was essentially built like a NFE pokemon and suffered the same common problems: bulky but passive and hurting from a lack of Leftovers. Boosting it's SpA up to 95 puts some bite into into the various low BP moves it will be frequently using such as Volt Switch, Dazzling Gleam, and Discharge. Grass Knot and Energy Ball are useful in a meta where the other two Electric-types have secondary STAB to hit Ground-types. Differentiating it's defenses more towards the physical set helps set it apart from Lanturn and Audino who it is otherwise very similar to.
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Base Swampert Nerf
Stat Changes:
100/100/85/70/70/70 (-15 SpD, +10 Spe)
Movepool Removals: Bulk Up
Reasoning: The removal of special defense will hurt Swampert in certain matchups, like Mega Sharpedo. The removal of bulk up will mean that Swampert can no longer set up without any consequences, and has to rely on Curse for setting up, meaning it's speed will be constantly be decreasing, but a slight buff in speed will make Swampert not too slow after 1 Curse.
just using these as a template, wip
Ninjask Nerf
Trapinch Buff
Pangoro Buff
Mega Swampert Buff
Base Audino Buff (just give us a reason to use it lol)
Free Slot 1 (free slots are for subbing your own beliefs in what should be changed, can be a buff or nerf)
Free Slot 2 (Same as above)
Stat Changes:
100/100/85/70/70/70 (-15 SpD, +10 Spe)
Movepool Removals: Bulk Up
Reasoning: The removal of special defense will hurt Swampert in certain matchups, like Mega Sharpedo. The removal of bulk up will mean that Swampert can no longer set up without any consequences, and has to rely on Curse for setting up, meaning it's speed will be constantly be decreasing, but a slight buff in speed will make Swampert not too slow after 1 Curse.
just using these as a template, wip
Ninjask Nerf
Trapinch Buff
Pangoro Buff
Mega Swampert Buff
Base Audino Buff (just give us a reason to use it lol)
Free Slot 1 (free slots are for subbing your own beliefs in what should be changed, can be a buff or nerf)
Free Slot 2 (Same as above)
Free Slot 1: Gardevoir buff
Role(s): Set-Up Sweeper, Special Wallbreaker, Choice Specs user
Ability Changes: Trace / Pixilate (HA)
Stat Changes: 70 / 70 / 80 / 125 / 90 / 90 | BST: 525
Justification: Fairy/Ground may be a powerful offensive typing but it really sucks defensively, especially here. I decided to increase Gardevoir's special attack and speed a little to increase its offensive presence, now outspeeding Mew and Pangoro. Pixilate provides a stronger Fairy STAB that penetrates substitutes, Trace can be situationally useful, turning abilities like Flygon's Mythical Presence, Flaaffy's Volt Absorb, and Poipole's Adaptability against them.
Role(s): Set-Up Sweeper, Special Wallbreaker, Choice Specs user
Ability Changes: Trace / Pixilate (HA)
Stat Changes: 70 / 70 / 80 / 125 / 90 / 90 | BST: 525
Justification: Fairy/Ground may be a powerful offensive typing but it really sucks defensively, especially here. I decided to increase Gardevoir's special attack and speed a little to increase its offensive presence, now outspeeding Mew and Pangoro. Pixilate provides a stronger Fairy STAB that penetrates substitutes, Trace can be situationally useful, turning abilities like Flygon's Mythical Presence, Flaaffy's Volt Absorb, and Poipole's Adaptability against them.
I assume you have to buff Mega Swampert when you're nerfing the regular one and nerf regular Swampert when buffing the Mega, since stat and movepool changes affect both of them. This also means we'll have to vote for both of the formes of just one person.
Pokemon: Poipole
Stat Changes: 87 / 123 / 67 / 123 / 67 / 78 (BST: 545)
Movepool Additions: Earth Power, Earthquake, Calm Mind
Reasoning: Guys, this thing is seriously bad right now and needs a buff. It is like even worse than Pangoro (which is now getting a buff). With 78 Speed it isn't as awfully slow and it can actually outspeed most of the stuff it needs to, while still being kept in check by faster Pokemon such as Cloyster, Pangoro or Gardevoir. I added stronger Ground coverage so Poipole doesn't get walled by every damn Steel type and then I added Calm Mind so it will have an easier time wallbreaking.
Pokemon: Trapinch (now compatible with Eviolite)
Stat Changes: 65 / 100 / 65 / 45 / 65 / 50 (BST: 390)
Movepool Additions: Fire Fang, Knock Off
Reasoning: With 50 Speed it can outspeed almost every single uninvested wall which fixes one if its biggest flaws. It can sacrifice the item slot to become more bulky and not get OHKOed by anything decently powerful. With Fire Fang it can hit Forretress which would be an annoyance to face otherwise. Then I added Knock Off for overall utility and a way to remove Eviolites of some trapped walls.
Pokemon: Swampert
Stat Changes: 100 / 100 / 70 / 70 / 70 / 60 (BST: 470)
Movepool Removals: None
Reasoning: Just lowered Swampert's bulk a bit. It will still keep its niche of being a dangerous set-up sweeper but it will be easier to check (especially on the special side).
Pokemon: Swampert-Mega
Stat Changes: 100 / 150 / 90 / 70 / 90 / 70 (BST: 570 | +50 Atk, +20 Def, +20 SpD, +10 Spe)
Ability change: Sheer Force
Reasoning: Mega Swampert is now an extremely strong wallbreaker with better stats and better ability, which allows him to nuke stuff with Sheer Force boosted Liquidations.
Pokemon: Poipole
Stat Changes: 87 / 123 / 67 / 123 / 67 / 78 (BST: 545)
Movepool Additions: Earth Power, Earthquake, Calm Mind
Reasoning: Guys, this thing is seriously bad right now and needs a buff. It is like even worse than Pangoro (which is now getting a buff). With 78 Speed it isn't as awfully slow and it can actually outspeed most of the stuff it needs to, while still being kept in check by faster Pokemon such as Cloyster, Pangoro or Gardevoir. I added stronger Ground coverage so Poipole doesn't get walled by every damn Steel type and then I added Calm Mind so it will have an easier time wallbreaking.
Pokemon: Trapinch (now compatible with Eviolite)
Stat Changes: 65 / 100 / 65 / 45 / 65 / 50 (BST: 390)
Movepool Additions: Fire Fang, Knock Off
Reasoning: With 50 Speed it can outspeed almost every single uninvested wall which fixes one if its biggest flaws. It can sacrifice the item slot to become more bulky and not get OHKOed by anything decently powerful. With Fire Fang it can hit Forretress which would be an annoyance to face otherwise. Then I added Knock Off for overall utility and a way to remove Eviolites of some trapped walls.
Pokemon: Swampert
Stat Changes: 100 / 100 / 70 / 70 / 70 / 60 (BST: 470)
Movepool Removals: None
Reasoning: Just lowered Swampert's bulk a bit. It will still keep its niche of being a dangerous set-up sweeper but it will be easier to check (especially on the special side).
Pokemon: Swampert-Mega
Stat Changes: 100 / 150 / 90 / 70 / 90 / 70 (BST: 570 | +50 Atk, +20 Def, +20 SpD, +10 Spe)
Ability change: Sheer Force
Reasoning: Mega Swampert is now an extremely strong wallbreaker with better stats and better ability, which allows him to nuke stuff with Sheer Force boosted Liquidations.
I updated the speed tier with the new Pokémon (Timid Porygon-Z, +1 Timid Porygon-Z, OTR Porygon-Z, Neutral Forretress, Gyroball Forretress, Fast Druddigon, Bulky Druddigon, Timid Unown, +1 Timid Unown).
I also wanted to talk about Unown because i feel like some of you didn't understand how it was made. I'm not against a veto but I'd like to decree one rule for any change: Unown learns a single move that started with each letter. (If Quiver Dance pushes Unown over the edge i'd like it to be replaced by Quash because Quick Guard and Quick Attack are useless because of Pyschic Terrain).
I'm also going to do the devil advocate for Unown and why I feel like some of you overhyped this little boy:
-First, Unown has a terrible bulk. It can't really switch or set-up on most Pokémon.
-Two, 4mss. I don't know why you think Unown can realiably run Recover to beat Audino-M since forgoing Judgment lets it susceptible to either Psychic-type (CM Mew, and other Unown) and Cofagrigus, forgoing Nature-Power lets it lack firepower and walled by Nihilego, and forgoing Aurasphere let it walled by Dark-types. Unown is a bit like Volcarona in OU or Barbaracle in RU but with the unability to run a z-move because of Judgment.
Also please don't remove V-Create. Unown physical movepool is already lackluster and V-Create is as powerfull as a STAB Focus Blast or Close Combat, so it shoudln't be to strong with only 93 base attack.
I have a lot of works and I don't foresee to come again here until next week, so I won't submitt anything this slate and I won't argue to much for the potential changes, but please respect the way I designed Unown.
I also wanted to talk about Unown because i feel like some of you didn't understand how it was made. I'm not against a veto but I'd like to decree one rule for any change: Unown learns a single move that started with each letter. (If Quiver Dance pushes Unown over the edge i'd like it to be replaced by Quash because Quick Guard and Quick Attack are useless because of Pyschic Terrain).
I'm also going to do the devil advocate for Unown and why I feel like some of you overhyped this little boy:
-First, Unown has a terrible bulk. It can't really switch or set-up on most Pokémon.
-Two, 4mss. I don't know why you think Unown can realiably run Recover to beat Audino-M since forgoing Judgment lets it susceptible to either Psychic-type (CM Mew, and other Unown) and Cofagrigus, forgoing Nature-Power lets it lack firepower and walled by Nihilego, and forgoing Aurasphere let it walled by Dark-types. Unown is a bit like Volcarona in OU or Barbaracle in RU but with the unability to run a z-move because of Judgment.
Also please don't remove V-Create. Unown physical movepool is already lackluster and V-Create is as powerfull as a STAB Focus Blast or Close Combat, so it shoudln't be to strong with only 93 base attack.
I have a lot of works and I don't foresee to come again here until next week, so I won't submitt anything this slate and I won't argue to much for the potential changes, but please respect the way I designed Unown.
I would tend to agree with this although I would point out that Nature Power / Dark Pulse / Aura Sphere gives it pretty solid coverage. Quiver Dance may be worth trying, although I'm pretty skeptical of it given that it would outspeed everything at +1 (and immune to priority), while having the strongest unboosted hit; as well as the existence of a lot of special attacking walls around for it to set up multiple boosts on.
Don't worry though, I got your back with Quash - it already has it : )
Terrible bulk doesn’t matter too much if you can always use a slow pivot. Ferrothorn and Meganium come to mind immediately (in fact, I designed Ferrothorn to be a super solid defensive pivot), allowing Unown to constantly come in on passive mons and setup. Additionally, a moveset of Nature Power, Fairy-type Judgement, Calm Mind, and Recover is a great one, covering everything but Steel-types (and no Steel-type can viably use Pursuit, either). MMY in BH had a similar 4MSS problem too, wanting to use Psycho Boost, Fleur Cannon, Moongeist Beam, Psystrike, Earth Power, V-Create, and Photon Geyser. Nevertheless, such a high Special Attack, combined with a 50% power boost and protection from revenge killing, pushed it to the edge and caused Psychic Surge to be banned. I’m afraid keeping Unown as it is will cause the same overcentralization. Instead of having all moves in the alphabet (which forces it to have either broken moves like Quiver Dance or useless moves like Quash) why not add some kind of alphabet move? Prioritizing flavor over balance is not a good idea, in my opinion.
edit: remove neutral Forretress imo, it doesn’t outspeed anything useful and it really wants that slow pivot
Yeah this
Replacing Quiver Dance with Quash on Unown will make it balanced. The meta is full of Dark types after all and any physical attacker that isn't OHKOed can revenge kill Unown. I think we overestimate the power of some offensive threats and make them a bit weaker than they should be, which turns the meta really bulky and a lot of defensive cores are almost unbreakable. Unown wasn't even properly tested yet so I think we should replace Quiver Dance and then check if it is still broken.
Ok it seems the consensus at the moment is that Unown will go without Quiver Dance. On another note, I wish Unown had substitute like every other mon for subglare cheese but I guess not, them ABCs matter :(.
everyone make sure to use Swalot! It's a really good mon!
everyone make sure to use Swalot! It's a really good mon!
Voting Time:
Swampert+MegaPert:
leonard
Anaconja
Scoopapa
Jucherz
No Change
(Sorry Squawk but just one pert doesn't quite work here)
Ninjask:
Gravity Monkey
Anaconja
Scoopapa
No Change
Trapinch:
Gravity Monkey
Leonard
Anaconja
Jucherz
No Change
Pangoro:
Anaconja
Scoopapa
No Change
Base Audino:
Gravity Monkey
Anaconja
No Change
Free 1:
Scoopapa's Milotic
Origin0's Gardevoir
Jucherz Poipole
No Change
Free 2:
Anaconja's Flaaffy
Scoopapa's Flaaffy
No Change
The voting for this slate is slightly different. You don't need to vote for any specific subs, this will be counted as a "0" vote wise (so if I only like 1 change I can vote for only that change). Voting for "No Change" will actively count as a vote for not changing the submission.
Also, the council actually matters more now! It will also be in charge of deciding VR changes. Because of this I was wondering if any of the users who regularly battle (Jucherz Gravity Monkey Anaconja) so if any of you guys would like to join the council, hit me up on the discord server.
My votes:
Swampert+MegaPert: leonard, Scoopapa
Ninjask: Scoopapa
Trapinch: leonard, jucherz
Pangoro: Anaconja
Audino: Gravity Monkey, No Change
Free 1: Jucherz, Scoopapa
Free 2: Anaconja
Swampert+MegaPert:
leonard
Anaconja
Scoopapa
Jucherz
No Change
(Sorry Squawk but just one pert doesn't quite work here)
Ninjask:
Gravity Monkey
Anaconja
Scoopapa
No Change
Trapinch:
Gravity Monkey
Leonard
Anaconja
Jucherz
No Change
Pangoro:
Anaconja
Scoopapa
No Change
Base Audino:
Gravity Monkey
Anaconja
No Change
Free 1:
Scoopapa's Milotic
Origin0's Gardevoir
Jucherz Poipole
No Change
Free 2:
Anaconja's Flaaffy
Scoopapa's Flaaffy
No Change
The voting for this slate is slightly different. You don't need to vote for any specific subs, this will be counted as a "0" vote wise (so if I only like 1 change I can vote for only that change). Voting for "No Change" will actively count as a vote for not changing the submission.
Also, the council actually matters more now! It will also be in charge of deciding VR changes. Because of this I was wondering if any of the users who regularly battle (Jucherz Gravity Monkey Anaconja) so if any of you guys would like to join the council, hit me up on the discord server.
My votes:
Swampert+MegaPert: leonard, Scoopapa
Ninjask: Scoopapa
Trapinch: leonard, jucherz
Pangoro: Anaconja
Audino: Gravity Monkey, No Change
Free 1: Jucherz, Scoopapa
Free 2: Anaconja
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