It isn't definite that scyther would be used in OU play.
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Scyther deserves a place in the metagame.
- Thread starter IcyShock
- Start date
It isn't definite that scyther would be used in OU play.
If it isn't used in OU play, then what? You can't use it in UU play if it was moved to BL. I don't think you understood my previous post.
[qoute]It's attack and speed stats are good, but nothing special.
Also, you have failed to note that Stealth Rock, which is out 99% of the time, makes Scyther take 50% on a switch in. So Scyther can only switch in 2 or 3 times, depinding on the HP.
Also, why pick this over Yanmega, who has Sleep, Speed Boost, and a special attack stat that does not get ruined by Salamence or Gyarados. Or Ninjask, who has 160 speed, Speed Boost, and BATON PASS! Why??[/quote]
Gee, maybe no one else noticed, but unlike most physical sweepers, Scyther can baton pass it's boosts and get outta there. Most pokes waste time setting up, then end up switching out from a counter. Scyther SDs up a bit, sweeps, and then with its respectable defenses (70/80/80) BPs outta there to your main physical sweeper.
Thats why it's so dangerous, is because basically you HAVE to Haze or Kill scyther to truly eliminate the threat, because the boosts will haunt you long after Scyther has left the field.
Also, you have failed to note that Stealth Rock, which is out 99% of the time, makes Scyther take 50% on a switch in. So Scyther can only switch in 2 or 3 times, depinding on the HP.
Also, why pick this over Yanmega, who has Sleep, Speed Boost, and a special attack stat that does not get ruined by Salamence or Gyarados. Or Ninjask, who has 160 speed, Speed Boost, and BATON PASS! Why??[/quote]
Gee, maybe no one else noticed, but unlike most physical sweepers, Scyther can baton pass it's boosts and get outta there. Most pokes waste time setting up, then end up switching out from a counter. Scyther SDs up a bit, sweeps, and then with its respectable defenses (70/80/80) BPs outta there to your main physical sweeper.
Thats why it's so dangerous, is because basically you HAVE to Haze or Kill scyther to truly eliminate the threat, because the boosts will haunt you long after Scyther has left the field.
The benefit of Scyther is that w/ SR, if its faster than the opponent, Scyther can sub and activate Salac Berry. SR is a problem for it though. IDK. It shouldn't be in OU, but its attack and speed are good enough to tear through OU, making it BL. Stealth Rock is seen more in OU though, and the only real SR user in BL is Steelix, he's really it.
Ok firstly, Scyther is underused, so he goes to UU. Then, is he too strong for the UU metagame? I'm voting no, so he remains UU (In my opinion). There are many reasons, firstly stealth rock, his insane weaknesses, the fact that bug/flying isn't a good type, and he can be walled easily in UU
I think what everyone's saying Icy is you g2g re-read how pokes are sorted into tier by smogon. As others are trying to say, ability in OU (like his speed and power) have nothing to do with whether he's UU or not.
First usage. Is he used a lot in OU battles? No. Therefore he is BL/UU.
Next, is he too much for UU? Again, not really for the reasons Ae Sakura mentioned. Therefore he is UU.
That's it. It's not like having the title of BL is special or anything. A lot of people wished that the BLs they like were UU-- that way they could get more chances to use them . . .
Remember that BL is not a recognized tier in itself, so all BLs have no choice but to battle in OU matches.
First usage. Is he used a lot in OU battles? No. Therefore he is BL/UU.
Next, is he too much for UU? Again, not really for the reasons Ae Sakura mentioned. Therefore he is UU.
That's it. It's not like having the title of BL is special or anything. A lot of people wished that the BLs they like were UU-- that way they could get more chances to use them . . .
Remember that BL is not a recognized tier in itself, so all BLs have no choice but to battle in OU matches.
true. Aggron is in UU and does well against Scythe (except if it has Sub.). Anyway, is Stealth Rock seen that often in BL? I know Camerupt, Steelix, and Bastiodon use it, but Scyther can outspeed all of them, Swords Dance then Sub. It can keep Subbing or SDing, the Reversal when its HP is low enough, and KO most of them. AA also does massive damage, being, I think, 135 BP w/ STAB and Tech. IDK, maybe it's better in UU. But, it can beat Porygon2, just because it's faster. Still, IDK.
That was EXACTLY what I was trying to say, but Icy seemed to not get my point. Or maybe he values opinions from people with a high post count?
Walrein, who has been voted to be UU, can come in on a Weavile swords dance, hang around while Weavile smacks it with Brick Break, and then roar him out safely. It should be able to handle Scyther's SDed Brick Break easily. Rotom also walls just about everything Scyther has, can SpecsTrick it or smack whoever is comming in with Specs T-Bolt.
If Stealth Rocks are down, the same vs a Scyther would be deadly, especially if you make the mistake of subbing against a phazer.
Steelix has even more defenses than Walrein, can stealth rock _AND_ roar, making it especially dangerous to Scyther.
I believe the point being made is that SR is up (and a lot of pokemon in all tiers learn it), roar really messes with scyther.
Say hi to Mr. Mime, Cradily (Suction Cups), Octillery (Suction Cups), and other soundproof Pokémon. And who would pair Rayquaza with Scyther? They're very far apart.
Scyther needs more strong moves to be seen like a BL
Close Combat and Technician Bug Bite would be nice on him,since Scyther needs powerful moves.
Scyther is a top UU for me,like a Garchomp:hits hard and fast.It's one of the only UU poke that can do well in OU(After a SD,it can hurt...and having 105 speed is cool).Lack of stong moves is what makes it UU instead of BL(Zangoose is like Scyther,but slower and has only 5 more base attack...but it's BL because it can do Close Combat,elemental punches...only cool useful moves.See the difference?)
Close Combat and Technician Bug Bite would be nice on him,since Scyther needs powerful moves.
Scyther is a top UU for me,like a Garchomp:hits hard and fast.It's one of the only UU poke that can do well in OU(After a SD,it can hurt...and having 105 speed is cool).Lack of stong moves is what makes it UU instead of BL(Zangoose is like Scyther,but slower and has only 5 more base attack...but it's BL because it can do Close Combat,elemental punches...only cool useful moves.See the difference?)
I think it already does.
I see it so often, it's crazy. >_>
Of course in OU terms....no.
Really, PHazing moves and SR completely destroy the potency of Scyther. 70/80/80 mean that it's going to have to get lucky to get in a Swords Dance, even in UU. And Brick Break isn't going to make those Steel types flinch. Pinsir has better attack, movepool, but worse speed, but at least it doesn't have to rely on SD, and only has 2x with Stealth Rock. And it can take a physical hit before dying.
Yay, first post after a long absense. >_>
I see it so often, it's crazy. >_>
Of course in OU terms....no.
Really, PHazing moves and SR completely destroy the potency of Scyther. 70/80/80 mean that it's going to have to get lucky to get in a Swords Dance, even in UU. And Brick Break isn't going to make those Steel types flinch. Pinsir has better attack, movepool, but worse speed, but at least it doesn't have to rely on SD, and only has 2x with Stealth Rock. And it can take a physical hit before dying.
Yay, first post after a long absense. >_>
Have you ever actually tried to wall Scyther in UU? There's nothing easy about it at all ... Torkoal is probably one of your best bets and he requires Wish support to keep it up for long .... also Stealth Rock is not nearly as prevalent in UU (at least on Shoddy Battle).
I'd be more worried about Scyther carrying Brick Break, which is easily a two hit KO, perhaps even one depending on the EV's of both ...
I've never seen Technician Scyther, just SD physical sweepers. Scizor on the other hand....
OU, no. It makes an awful lead, with the popularity of DD Bulkydos, Weavile, Specsmence, and others. This list does not include anything Scarfed. It can barely switch in to anything, not to mention SR, and Blissey and Cress always carry something SE against it. If you can use it well, fine. But it'll be quite challenging to use, not to mention the lack of double powder that fellow Bug/Flying Yanmega has.
Aaahhh!! You don't get it!
BL is basically limbo. Pokemon who are not used very much, so they cannot be called OU, but are too powerful for UU. With BL, it usually means there are better things to choose from in OU over it.
In OU, Scyther has loads of trouble, but in UU, it at least can kill a few things. Bringing it up to BL would make it completely useless. :\