Approved Allow moves to have non-max PP

[DaWoblefet]

There is some merit of intentionally not PP maxing your moves that I have seen be relevant in VGC:

• Encore will end early if a Pokemon runs out of PP on its move. For moves like Gravity or Trick Room that can often be bad to be locked into, not maxing PP can help you break out of Encore locks in certain lategame scenarios. Some players opt not to PP max Detect/Protect for similar reasons on cartridge. I would have won a game at North American Internationals this year if my Xerneas only had 10 Protect PP rather than 16, because I was got in an Encore lock vs Whimsicott but my opponent also couldn't do much damage to it, and I managed to get enough double Protects that I would have done 10 in a row.
• Choice locked Pokemon with moves that only have 5 PP sometimes intentionally opted not to PP max so they could Struggle sooner to be able to hit Shedinja. The most common example of this was Choice Scarf Kyogre with Water Spout; you often couldn't afford to drop another moveslot for a move that would hit Shedinja, so the next best thing was to speed up the process of getting to Struggle.

So in that sense, being able to choose whether or not you want your moves PP maxed is incredibly niche, but still something Showdown could emulate. I'd place this very low on the to-do list, however.

 

[pre]

The 'hardest' part of this would be coming up with a reasonable syntax for denoting it in the team export and pack formats (any proposals?). Other than that you'd just need to add support to the teambuilder (contentious given the Preact client work) and a small amount of logic to battle initialization on the server.

 

[HoeenHero]

Just to add to this, and I know this isn't exactly super-competitively relevant, but Trump Card also appreciates having lower PP.

Moves like this have the `noPPBoosts` flag applied so by default they use the base PP (which is 5 for trump card, not 1)

 

[DaWoblefet]

Probably the most reasonable way would be to specify the amount of PP Ups used on the particular move, and just calculate the PP of the move at battle initialization. For example,

Lunala @ Lunalium Z
Ability: Shadow Shield
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moongeist Beam
- Psyshock
- Tailwind (PP Up: 0)
- Roar (PP Up: 1)

So no parentheses would indicate default PP max, and you would just read the number after PP Ups to determine the number of PP Ups used on the move, and when importing, ensure PP Up is between 0 and 3.

In this example:

• Moongeist Beam has 5 base PP, and since there is no PP Up specified, assume 3 PP Up, so Moongeist Beam PP = 8.
• Psyshock has 10 base PP, and since there is no PP Up specified, assume 3 PP Up, so Psyshock PP = 16.
• Tailwind has 15 base PP, and since PP Up is 0, Tailwind PP = 15.
• Roar has 20 base PP, and since PP Up is 1, Roar PP = 24.

In order to calculate how much base PP a move should have, take base PP * 0.2 * number of PP Ups. Base PP is always a multiple of 5, so there will never be rounding issues.

As far as packed teams go:
Lunala||lunaliumz|shadowshield|moongeistbeam,psyshock,tailwind,roar|Timid|4,,,252,,252||,0,,,,||50|]

could have additional commas added, in a similar way to how EVs without a value are assumed to be default 0:

Lunala||lunaliumz|shadowshield|moongeistbeam,,psyshock,,tailwind,0,roar,1,|Timid|4,,,252,,252||,0,,,,||50|]


The biggest disadvantage of this model is that other platforms dependent on Showdown imports might break depending on how they read in move data; however, given that wanting to modify PP is already pretty niche, it shouldn't affect a wide majority of applications, I'd imagine.

 

[HoeenHero]

In order to calculate how much base PP a move should have, take base PP * 0.2 * number of PP Ups. Base PP is always a multiple of 5, so there will never be rounding issues.

This should only be run if the # of PP ups used is > 0 or else you have 0 PP, which is shown incorrectly by your example above too:

Tailwind has 15 base PP, and since PP Up is 0, Tailwind PP = 0.

 

[DaWoblefet]

This should only be run if the # of PP ups used is > 0 or else you have 0 PP, which is shown incorrectly by your example above too:

Yes. I'm bad >.< This should work:

base PP + (0.2 * number of PP Ups * base PP)

 

[jorm201]

A strategy with minimum PP involves Leppa Berry and Cheek Pouch. The fewer PP, the sooner HP will be restored.

 

[readytolose]

I'd like to add that deliberately lowering your PP for Sucker Punch on mons with a Choice Band is a valid use of non-max PP as well. This would have been very relevant while Urshifu-S was legal in OU, as you could Struggle one or more turns earlier in the face of something like Volcarona spamming Quiver Dance and maybe take it out if it is weakened enough. The Volcarona player would not expect you to go for Struggle there as they would expect you to have one or more Sucker Punch PP left and they would take the hit. I couldn't find any instance of this happening in a tournament game but I know that I personally have lost while using CB Sucker Punch and getting outplayed and being forced to sack another mon (in an Urshifu vs. Volcarona situation like the one mentioned above). Sacking the mon lost me the game in the long run, but if I had less Sucker Punch PP, I could have been able to take it out (it was already in Struggle range from an earlier attack).

Some other notable Pokemon that have historically used CB Sucker Punch include Yveltal, Absol, Spiritomb, Liepard, and others, I'm sure. Being able to have Sucker Punch's PP be anywhere from 5 to 8 (although lets be honest there's little reason to run less than 7) lets you potentially surprise an opponent with a Struggle and get the necessary damage that can be the difference between winning and losing the game, and would unilaterally, if only slightly, improve the viability of CB Sucker Punch in all formats and generations. I actually think this change should be a relatively high priority one, this example seems less niche than the others mentioned in this thread and was relatively common in OU until a few days ago.

 

[Plague von Karma]

A few things I'm wanting to note here...

In RBY and GSC, there are a few strategies where lowering PP to get to Struggle faster are valid. They're all a bit fringe in my opinion, but it doesn't make them less important.

When in a Chansey PP stall situation in RBY there are some occasions where you'll want to get to Struggle and force your way through. This is partially why Attack DVs and Stat Exp aren't lowered for Pokemon all the time if they aren't using physical attacks, particularly if their base Attack is actually quite high. I'm not sure where specifically you'd do it, as I'm not too in-tune with the situations, but they're absolutely there.

In Random Battles you may want to lower Magikarp's Splash PP (or other status moves for shitmons) so it can potentially get to attack sooner in PP stall situations.

While it's generally not as relevant, since people are putting forward situations I thought I'd contribute.

 

[lighthouse64]

I know this isn't a standard metagame, but the ability to have less PP on your moves can make a significant difference in metronome battles for pokemon that have a choice band, as it guarantees that they can struggle faster instead of wasting a turn on a random move.

 

[jorm201]

The now legal combo of Recycle and Leppa berry would benefit from moves without max pp. Less PP means ingesting their berry faster, keeping it from being removed.

 

[nolenot]

has this been added to showdown yet, or is it still impossible to modify pp ups?

 

[Dorron]

not added yet

 

[XPerto]

Now there is a recent competitve example about this: Michael Kelsch won the 2023 Pokemon World Championship (Yokohama) with a Choice Band Dragapult with 6 Sucker Punch PP to counter protect stall with Struggle. So it will be nice if they add the ability to change the moves PP at some point in the future.