So I'm back, and I've tested out Rattled WP Cress. She does not disappoint. I've paired her with a Pixilate Expert Belt Cress and holy cow they are a
duo.
Let's not talk too much this time, though - here's the team.
Dark Side (Cresselia) @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Rattled
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Brave Nature
- Metronome
Light Side (Cresselia) @ Expert Belt
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Quiet Nature
- Metronome
And here's a replay:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7metronomebattle-936580432
Nice team. Cresselia looks like a viable Steel alternative for a bulky statboost build. I like seeing the underused/unique choices in these sets because it makes me think. Rattled gets Cresselia to 403 speed with a neutral nature and 363 without, so you'll outspeed most in the meta. Still, it isn't a sure thing since it relies on the enemy's Metronome while Speed Boost guarantees that blazing speed high and more. There's still some nice scenarios that may happen, like getting hit and countering with full boosts, then continuing to fight while outspeeding.
Expert Belt is something else I didn't really consider before. No drawbacks and works for both physical/special, but it's like a reverse Weakness Policy condition with a worse boost. Multipliers work better with high damage (already unreliable to get) but the maximized bulk on mons doesn't help its case. I guess Cresselia works since it's kind of mixed and bulky enough so it might live long enough to proc. While writing this I had an epiphany that the Expert Belt in this meta is a lot like Scope Lens in utility, and I think that Scope Lens would actually be better on average. (Update: I found a crit team on the ladder, can't really judge it though)
Sidenote: I tried using 2 Cresselia in niche stall/wall teams with Harvest/Pickup for a while. It wasn't the best team for winning, but it was decent at not losing. I wonder how well it tanks with Friend Guard.
Wishiwashi is fun, shame about the HP stat but it's offenses and typing are amazing. I haven't used Pokestar-UFO that much but it's always been used a bit even back in the Spirit/Magearna days so I think it may be worth exploring some more now that there's less competition in teambuilding. (I've used Delta Stream but I guess it could be an Aerialte user as well, but given the amount of Sableyes I've been seeing a fairy with pixilate seems to be the best -ate user right now.)
UFO's well rounded stats and typing are nice. Wishiwashi almost offsets its HP with its defenses too, but I think it's a bit worse at taking hits than a 100/100/100 spread. Delta Stream is probably the better option there, shame it changes the effectiveness so you can't use Weakness Policy with it. Aerilate might work best against Marshadow but then again Pixilate hits that as well.
Secondly, -ate abilities are theoretically better off now with steel type bans, but I found it to be still pretty bad compared to like defiant because it does not proc very often and even if it does, it’s not very rewarding. It makes you better off against ghosts but the rest is meh.
I think flame body/static/poison point might be worth testing but it’s pretty useless against flower veil so idk.
I haven't experimented much with them either outside of Pixilate. The -ates really need investment, like STAB and the right targets to hit with limited type choices as is. If there was a Dark or Ghost -ate or something just to hit the popular type in the meta I can see it having more of a use, though with a possible tradeoff of hitting more resistances. I guess Galvanize almost fit the part back with Steels but Lightningrod Celesteela or whatever was a thing and it was just not worth using.
The move choices aren't too balanced either, most -ated moves will be physical. Scrappy probably works well enough against ghosts too, hits them neutrally and you get more chances to hit with Fighting moves.
I remember a guy who used 2 Flame Body Registeels back in the day. Flower Veil did neutralize the strategy but it procced surprisingly often otherwise iirc. Poison Point is also theoretically better off without steels around but I haven't seen any users, though I have seen Poison Touch used. Flame Body does have the edge of nerfing Attack though. I think both are better than Static because of guaranteed damage and the paralysis might make them Struggle later.
Maybe this gamemode could be renamed to "Magic Bounce".
Played 51 games today and 40/51 (= 78%) players had at least one Pokemon with Magic Bounce.
For me, this was a fun gamemode, which was mostly based on luck. With Magic Bounce, a lot of that 'luck' and 'fun' has been taken away. Lots of surprising and fun attacks get immedeately bounced back. It turned again into a competitive gamemode, where everyone uses the same things over and over again.
Ah well, a ban will never be possible, I guess?
No doubt about it. Magic Bounce is a centralizing ability that almost anything uses effectively, but there's some ways to swerve around it. You can directly counter and make the battle 'even' with Mold Breaker/Mummy, use a defensive ability like Full Metal Body/Flower Veil (turn still wasted), or take Defiant/Competitive for a more offensive counter like fwqef said.
In the end most people take the easy way in and run Magic Bounce themselves and then you have a dynamic where any landing status moves are all coming from the self. Hell you can even run two Magic Bouncers, get Growled and copy it back twice to get -2 Atk on both enemies all from 1 move by the opponent. Of course there's even the chance it doesn't even make a difference in the game and you still have the damaging move aspect of the game to think about, which is where the Friend Guard camp stands.
Personally I like to use dumb strats but Magic Bounce is no joke, I would call it the default ability for the meta if you don't already have a strat in mind. I do see other abilities being used, but if ladder was back I think Magic Bounce or Defiant/Competitive would rise back to the top again. I'd bet even if it didn't/only bounced Taunt/Torment/Disable away or had a Truant effect, it'd still be a thing.
This is a relevant part for my thoughts on Gen 8 abilities. Neutralizing Gas has a very strong effect on the whole field. It's like Mummy but more convenient, but it's also tied to a Pokemon like Delta Stream so you can remove it. Comatose may pair well depending on how it works. Cancelling itself out might be considered too, but either way I don't think it'll be taken for granted. Mirror Armor seems interesting, it's like better Clear Body or a sidegrade for Magic Bounce. A bit worse in that it could be more fruitful for Defiant and it doesn't defend against the likes of Taunt.
Some abilities are better than others, so some abilities will always be used more than others. If you have a problem with that, go play chess not mons.
Chess is a bad example to use here actually. The important aspects of both like teambuilding focus and RNG are easy to apply between the formats, though the ability meta differs slightly. Imposter is still a force to be reckoned with and Tinted Lens is hardly used. On the other hand, Illusion is almost game breaking especially when playing on table. It's a centralizing maneuver that defines the pace of the game before it even starts, even with rook always forced in the last slot.
What are good users of Mold breaker and Magic bounce?
Try using a Pokestar/a high BST mon/yer favourite. They're both generally good abilities that mesh well with anything.
Magic Bounce: If you can take a hit you can live to bounce another day. To make the most of it you'd think you want to use something bulky like Sableye/Snorlax/Cresselia, but even a powerhouse would appreciate not being crippled. Though the real power comes from stat boosts and strong moves at this point.
Mold Breaker: Nowadays there are less immunity abilities around, but it still lets your status moves break through Magic Bounce and Flower Veil. Apparently it ignores Friend Guard too.
Off the current topic but I think we need to ban Friend Guard. Just taking 25% less damage for the trade off not using any other ability (the most popular ones involving status moves, which only make up around 35% of the move pool) on either Pokemon just seems inherently OP. Think of it akin to TF2's Darwin's Danger Shield before its rework.
Friend Guard is Powerful but I don't think it's broken enough for a ban. It reminds me of steels being more defensive than everything else, but on a smaller scale. At least it's not like Flower Veil and you have to have both mons use it to get full benefit, but I've seen that devoting one slot to support can help even Farfetch'd survive a bit. Maybe Wishiwashi could benefit from the support too? There's the tried and true like Eviolite Dusclops, or the Weakness Policy route where you can possibly kill. I think status is still something to consider with the forced Struggles, debuffs, and passive damage that puts you on a countdown. I guess living longer is good in general since you can avoid 2v1s and such. Every turn you don't die gives you more chances to do something and chance is the name of the game.
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So you can select your Hidden Power type through the teambuilder now, more convenient than before. The default Dark/Ice is probably still the best option and it's not a major decision to make. Neither is happiness I guess.
Hopefully Gen 8 revitalizes this format. Dynamax/Gigantamax seem to be a purely defensive option for the meta. Shame Max Moves and their doubles effects can't be used, but the new items and abilities could be interesting. Also new Pokemon, it'll be nice to see a new viable clump of mons. Can't be worse than Let's Go.
Other than that I haven't been active that much recently. Been trying some experimental ideas like Kee Berry Harvest or Silvally-Ghost. I've wanted to try Hoopa but nothing specific really comes to mind. Cheers to everyone still fighting the good fight, you can find a battle at practically anytime and there's always something new to see.