General News Discussion Thread

[Stratos]

i read the whole article

• Trump had a "direct hand" in creating an agreement between his resort and this airport in 2014/15.
• The USAF had a "separate" agreement with this airport (edit: from 2015) to use it for flights.
• The confluence of these two existing arrangements led to some personnel who flew into this airport staying there.
• There was no direct negotiation for the air force personnel to stay at a Trump hotel. Even the indirect negotiations which led to this happened before Trump became a public official.

So this seems like a major reach by WaPo and while I agree that having a side hustle while President is always sketch, this is like #394 on the ordered list of grounds for impeachment, if it's there at all.

 

[GatoDelFuego]

I don't think this is a major reach at all. Having a side hussle is a terrible idea, or a brilliant one if you're using it to make cash. This is #394 reason to impeach trump on conflict of interest reasons. I just see this as the most direct evidence, rather than "foreign visitors stay at trump properties for reasons unknown", there's a paper trail that names direct involvement.

 

[Myzozoa]

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/sep/11/us-polling-sites-closed-report-supreme-court-ruling
"

Jurisdictions once monitored by the justice department for racially discriminatory voting practices have collectively closed more than 1,000 polling places since a watershed 2013 US supreme court ruling released the jurisdictions from oversight, according to a new watchdog report.

In 757 counties and county equivalents that formerly had to pre-clear voting practice changes with Washington, 1,173 polling places disappeared between 2014 and 2018, a study by the Leadership Conference Education Fund, part of the nation’s oldest and largest civil rights coalition, found.

The closures could disproportionately disenfranchise voters of color, especially when combined with restrictive voter ID laws, gerrymandering and aggressive voter roll purges, the report warned. Last month, a separate study found that US election jurisdictions with histories of egregious voter discrimination have been purging voter rolls at a rate 40% beyond the national average.

The top three states for polling site closures were Texas (–750), Arizona (–320), and Georgia (–214), which all have Republican leadership.
"
guess we dont have to worry about a democrat victory in these states in 2020


obligatory reminder that the courts' decision to end the voting rights act happened 3 days before the court upheld gay marriage, almost like gay marriage upholds some type of conservative agenda to regulate the private life of American citizens by giving them an economic interest in nuclear family lifestyles.

 

[GatoDelFuego]

Impose vote by mail nationwide

 

[Myzozoa]

i can really in all honesty say I never thought I would see the day

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/sep/12/california-private-prison-ban-immigration-ice

 

[GatoDelFuego]

 

[EV]

That AOC commercial tho.

I think this is my favorite part surrounding the controversy (from Vox):

Heng is the daughter of refugees from Cambodia, and she’s also a supporter of President Donald Trump, a man who has done a lot to prevent refugees from seeking asylum in the United States.​

​

“Mine is a face of freedom,” Heng said toward the end of the 30-second spot. “My skin is not white. I’m not outrageous*, racist, nor socialist. I’m a Republican.”​

*she says while immolating the face of a political opponent.

 

[atomicllamas]

That AOC commercial tho.

I think this is my favorite part surrounding the controversy (from Vox):

Heng is the daughter of refugees from Cambodia, and she’s also a supporter of President Donald Trump, a man who has done a lot to prevent refugees from seeking asylum in the United States.​

​

“Mine is a face of freedom,” Heng said toward the end of the 30-second spot. “My skin is not white. I’m not outrageous*, racist, nor socialist. I’m a Republican.”​

*she says while immolating the face of a political opponent.

It’s especially funny that they would play this commercial but also refused to show a commercial by the freedom from religion foundation with a quote from JFK, “I believe in an America where the separation of church and state is absolute.” Because it was too controversial. Advocating political violence against your left wing political opponent, nbd, advocating for a fundamental part of the constitution, insanity.

 

[Kamek Porygon]

So who else thinks that these raids will be a yearly thing? if so, what's next, the Bermuda Triangle?

 

[Myzozoa]

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/24/us/politics/democrats-impeachment-trump.html

pelosi is going for the impeachment

this is not gonna succeed imo and anyone in America perceived to be a leftist is gonna get a harsh backlash i predict, this is like watching an empire crumble in slow motion, but from the inside of potential scapegoat classes this is terrifying. just my thoughts

 

[Dece1t]

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/24/us/politics/democrats-impeachment-trump.html

pelosi is going for the impeachment

this is not gonna succeed imo and anyone in America perceived to be a leftist is gonna get a harsh backlash i predict, this is like watching an empire crumble in slow motion, but from the inside of potential scapegoat classes this is terrifying. just my thoughts

For once we actually agree.

 

[Myzozoa]

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/oct/09/trump-tax-cuts-helped-billionaires-pay-less

"They were billed as a “middle-class miracle” but according to a new book Donald Trump’s $1.5tn tax cuts have helped billionaires pay a lower rate than the working class for the first time in history."

gotta store your gold for ascending to mars

 

[DianaNicole]

For once we actually agree.

Unfortunately I think it’s true, and especially with the recent Supreme Court cases I think it’ll only serve to divide the nation further.

 

[Stratos]

Reading the first exchange on this page is funny in hindsight

gato: this hotel deal with an airport made in 2014 will certainly be the thing to sink trump
the don: im about to ask a foreign government to interfere in the presidential election

 

[DianaNicole]

Reading the first exchange on this page is funny in hindsight

gato: this hotel deal with an airport made in 2014 will certainly be the thing to sink trump
the don: im about to ask a foreign government to interfere in the presidential election

When reading it that way it’s almost crazy that he hasn’t been impeached yet

 

[Martin]

Something weird has happened in parliament today; Boris’ deal has been passed in principle, but because of the second vote on the schedule not passing it means Brexit still isn’t happening. Europe are going to have to decide on another extension period (I expect it will be rolling rather than defined at this point), and if after the second reading amendments parliament votes the amended deal down we could very well return to step one. Again. For the third time. Long story short this government+the current situation in the UK are both clusterfucks, although frankly (and exasperatingly) this isn’t anything new at this point.

Boris also said he’d call a general election if his preferred time scale was voted down, yet he’s not actually called one—he’s once again all bark and no bite. I don’t really understand why he would bluff about that in his current position when it’s strategically the correct move to hold a general election, at least on paper.* Part of me suspects it’s because he knows he’s not going to win a general election (spoilers: noone will) but then again he’s also a clown with no principles what-so-ever, so perhaps it can be chalked up to him only caring about playing politics. Actually most of what he does can be chalked up to that, so that’s probably what it is in reality. If he were to call a general election tomorrow, I expect both Labour and the Torries to come out weaker; I don’t really know how the other parties would fare, but that wouldn’t really matter because it’d be yet another hung parliament that can’t actually do anything.

*Of course, it doesn’t make a difference in practice anyway. Holding an unwinnable election is about as massive a waste of time as holding a second reading that could go on for months/years to determine an amended deal and will, in all likelihood, be rejected at the end of it anyway. I’m just disillusioned and exhausted at this point.

 

[orch]

Imo, Boris wins by not folding into the remainers. The more remainers try to keep Britain in EU, the more angry the leavers get. The remainers are trying to stall until they get someone in their camp in the leadership and get this issue to disappear. However, the British electorate is telling us the different story: they want to get out of EU, and the elites have to accept it.

 

[termi]

Imo, Boris wins by not folding into the remainers. The more remainers try to keep Britain in EU, the more angry the leavers get. The remainers are trying to stall until they get someone in their camp in the leadership and get this issue to disappear. However, the British electorate is telling us the different story: they want to get out of EU, and the elites have to accept it.

you're quite arrogant to reduce the "british electorate" to a homogeneous brexiteer mass fighting against an unspecified "elite." if you recall the actual referendum, you may notice that Leave won by like, 52% vs 48%. you could hardly have a narrower "victory," add to that the people who didn't turn out to vote and it turns out that the part of the electorate that actively wants to leave the EU is in the minority. and are these people representative of the people of the UK? the data shows that it's primarily old white conservative people backing it. is that "the british electorate" then? what of working class Labour voters, what of the people of Scotland, what of people of color, what of young people? are you only part of "the people" if you vote one particular way? are you "the elite" if you voted Remain? are anti-brexit MPs part of the elite, and if so, why wouldn't pro-brexit MPs be part of the elite as well (especially considering a good part of them comes from the cult of oxbridge, hardly representative of "ordinary people")?

you seem to think it's some sort of conspiracy keeping the UK from leaving the EU, when in reality, maybe it's just because there is no consensus to speak of. even among "Leavers" there seems to be no consensus. how do you expect the UK to leave the EU in good faith if nobody can seem to agree on anything? this "we must brexit by any means necessary" mentality is not a democratic one, it is one fueled by the resentment of old white men who fear theyre going to lose "their" britain and are willing to throw anyone else under the bus to get what they want. fuck off with the "brexit is the movement of the people" type bullshit, it has absolutely nothing to do with reality.

 

[orch]

Those in lower social grades (especially the 'working class') were more likely to vote Leave, while those in higher social grades (especially the 'upper middle class') more likely to vote Remain.[298]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_...ship_referendum#Voter_demographics_and_trends

Yes, it's all complicated and all different types of people voted for either outcomes for different reasons. So what? The end result is that more British people voted to leave than to remain. Pro-Brexit MP were installed AFTER the referendum as a reaction against the establishment elites refusing to act on a democratic result. The Pro-Brexit sentiment has surged since 2016 and the issue is still hanging over us after three years.

The tactic that Pro-remainers use is silly: they find technicalities in the law and claim something along the lines "oh, sorry we can't leave EU because of these words on some piece of paper says so! :( ". This is only fueling the Brexit resentment.

 

[bugzinator]

you're quite arrogant to reduce the "british electorate" to a homogeneous brexiteer mass fighting against an unspecified "elite." if you recall the actual referendum, you may notice that Leave won by like, 52% vs 48%. you could hardly have a narrower "victory," add to that the people who didn't turn out to vote and it turns out that the part of the electorate that actively wants to leave the EU is in the minority. and are these people representative of the people of the UK? the data shows that it's primarily old white conservative people backing it. is that "the british electorate" then? what of working class Labour voters, what of the people of Scotland, what of people of color, what of young people? are you only part of "the people" if you vote one particular way? are you "the elite" if you voted Remain? are anti-brexit MPs part of the elite, and if so, why wouldn't pro-brexit MPs be part of the elite as well (especially considering a good part of them comes from the cult of oxbridge, hardly representative of "ordinary people")?

you seem to think it's some sort of conspiracy keeping the UK from leaving the EU, when in reality, maybe it's just because there is no consensus to speak of. even among "Leavers" there seems to be no consensus. how do you expect the UK to leave the EU in good faith if nobody can seem to agree on anything? this "we must brexit by any means necessary" mentality is not a democratic one, it is one fueled by the resentment of old white men who fear theyre going to lose "their" britain and are willing to throw anyone else under the bus to get what they want. fuck off with the "brexit is the movement of the people" type bullshit, it has absolutely nothing to do with reality.

What a weird post. You're simultaneously calling someone out for being arrogant, while also claiming that Brexit is a symptom of angry old white men and not a democratic decision.

It's literally irrelevant how narrow the margin of victory was, how many people didn't vote, or how many voters were old white conservative people. The British electorate democratically voted to leave the EU - it's just plain wrong to suggest otherwise

Also the people of Scotland had a chance to leave the United Kingdom 2 years before the Brexit vote and we chose to stay - we can't have our cake and eat it by remaining in the EU while the rest of the UK leaves.

 

[GatoDelFuego]

Also the people of Scotland had a chance to leave the United Kingdom 2 years before the Brexit vote and we chose to stay - we can't have our cake and eat it by remaining in the EU while the rest of the UK leaves.

Wasn't a big portion of the motivation for staying with the uk that it was phrased as the only way to stay with the EU

 

[bugzinator]

Wasn't a big portion of the motivation for staying with the uk that it was phrased as the only way to stay with the EU

Probably for some people, but I don't believe we'd ever vote to leave the UK regardless of being in the EU or not.

 

[GatoDelFuego]

Probably for some people, but I don't believe we'd ever vote to leave the UK regardless of being in the EU or not.

Scotland had the highest margin in voting"remain eu" out of the whole country. And there have been several calls for another independence referendum.

Even tho brexit was a democratic decision, it was a decision swayed primarily by older conservatives.

 

[bugzinator]

Scotland had the highest margin in voting"remain eu" out of the whole country. And there have been several calls for another independence referendum.

The Scottish independence campaign has lost a lot of supporters since 2014 though. Even back then it was almost a perfect storm in a lot of ways for the yes campaign (and they managed to get the vote a lot closer than many people thought it would be), but I don't see them getting as close as that again for a long time - the appetite for Scottish independence is just nowhere near as big as it was 5 years ago, regardless of Brexit.

Even tho brexit was a democratic decision, it was a decision swayed primarily by older conservatives.

I'm not denying this though. I didn't vote on Brexit, and I couldn't care less about the majority of political debates or issues surrounding it. Just found it strange that someone was trying to invalidate the outcome of the vote based on things like voter turnout & demographics, which have always been the fundamentals of any democratic decision reached by our electorate.

 

[GatoDelFuego]

Not to speak for alfons but I'm pretty sure he's not invalidating the result, only calling out the guy itt who's framing brexis as "the electorate" vs "the elites"